Apple's 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro keyboard expected to shift to scissor mechanism

13»

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 46
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator
    viclauyyc said:
    slurpy said:
    ireland said:
    Let’s see the arguments now from apologists who say there’s nothing wrong with the butterfly design. Turns out key-travel and reliability matter to people. Sadly, Apple will use this as yet one more justification for price increase.
    There is nothing wrong with the butterfly design. I've had multiple butterfly KBs with zero issues, as have many other people I know. There isn't a shred of real evidence that they're less reliable. Do you have any? Anecdotally, it seems that way because the clickbait industry has pounced on this, and one blog/youtube video about a KB issue gets shared millions of times. Apple claims there is not a higher percentage coming in for repairs compared to the scissor models, and I believe them. They may very well switch mechanisms for this machine, but could be due to more of a PR thing, since "butterfly keyboard" is now connected with negatives, based on this massive exaggeration and clickbait industry. I'm faster with the butterfly design, and I find typing is more comfortable and requires less effort. 

    And no, the price "increase" will e due to a fact that this will be a completely different machine. Just like how there's a price "increase" between the 8 and the X, or the XR and the XS. If you don't like the pricing, Apple sells other laptop models.

    I think the biggest problem with the butterfly keyboard is once it fails, the user need to replace the whole top case (logicboard,cpu, ram, flash drive and the GPU are all in the top case), which is more than half of the MBP. And the repair cost when it is out of warranty is crazy, given it might just has a failed key.

    This is why people is so pissed about it. No one will think it is reasonable to replace half of a car when it has a flat tire.

    It is more an Apple’s MBP design fault than fail key design.
    Nope. Just the battery and keyboard are for sure in the upper case, and maybe the trackpad gets replaced too.
  • Reply 42 of 46
    zimmiezimmie Posts: 651member
    MplsP said:
    slurpy said:
    ireland said:
    Let’s see the arguments now from apologists who say there’s nothing wrong with the butterfly design. Turns out key-travel and reliability matter to people. Sadly, Apple will use this as yet one more justification for price increase.
    There is nothing wrong with the butterfly design. I've had multiple butterfly KBs with zero issues, as have many other people I know. There isn't a shred of real evidence that they're less reliable. Do you have any? Anecdotally, it seems that way because the clickbait industry has pounced on this, and one blog/youtube video about a KB issue gets shared millions of times. Apple claims there is not a higher percentage coming in for repairs compared to the scissor models, and I believe them. They may very well switch mechanisms for this machine, but could be due to more of a PR thing, since "butterfly keyboard" is now connected with negatives, based on this massive exaggeration and clickbait industry. I'm faster with the butterfly design, and I find typing is more comfortable and requires less effort. 

    And no, the price "increase" will e due to a fact that this will be a completely different machine. Just like how there's a price "increase" between the 8 and the X, or the XR and the XS. If you don't like the pricing, Apple sells other laptop models.

    Let's see... double the problem rate, and that doesn't count the number of people who don't being their keyboard in. You can't remove the keys to clear out debris, replacing the keyboard is a $700 repair that includes the entire top assembly... Yeah, sounds like a stellar design. Good ol' Jonny deceivers a medal for this one!
    That's just it. Without knowing the number of machines with butterfly keyboards sold, we don't know the problem rate. Overall sales divided by the number of keyboard service incidents gives you the rate of keyboard failures. AppleInsider obtained one of those numbers (the number of keyboard service incidents) for a certain area. We don't know either of the other two.
  • Reply 43 of 46
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator
    zimmie said:
    MplsP said:
    slurpy said:
    ireland said:
    Let’s see the arguments now from apologists who say there’s nothing wrong with the butterfly design. Turns out key-travel and reliability matter to people. Sadly, Apple will use this as yet one more justification for price increase.
    There is nothing wrong with the butterfly design. I've had multiple butterfly KBs with zero issues, as have many other people I know. There isn't a shred of real evidence that they're less reliable. Do you have any? Anecdotally, it seems that way because the clickbait industry has pounced on this, and one blog/youtube video about a KB issue gets shared millions of times. Apple claims there is not a higher percentage coming in for repairs compared to the scissor models, and I believe them. They may very well switch mechanisms for this machine, but could be due to more of a PR thing, since "butterfly keyboard" is now connected with negatives, based on this massive exaggeration and clickbait industry. I'm faster with the butterfly design, and I find typing is more comfortable and requires less effort. 

    And no, the price "increase" will e due to a fact that this will be a completely different machine. Just like how there's a price "increase" between the 8 and the X, or the XR and the XS. If you don't like the pricing, Apple sells other laptop models.

    Let's see... double the problem rate, and that doesn't count the number of people who don't being their keyboard in. You can't remove the keys to clear out debris, replacing the keyboard is a $700 repair that includes the entire top assembly... Yeah, sounds like a stellar design. Good ol' Jonny deceivers a medal for this one!
    That's just it. Without knowing the number of machines with butterfly keyboards sold, we don't know the problem rate. Overall sales divided by the number of keyboard service incidents gives you the rate of keyboard failures. AppleInsider obtained one of those numbers (the number of keyboard service incidents) for a certain area. We don't know either of the other two.
    Again, we don't need to know it. The first-year sales volumes for the 15-inch MacBook Pro line are about the same since 2012. With a static denominator, you can absolutely tell how much the service rate has changed across the years. What we have is a percentage of service calls, which is what we've been comparing, and since the number of MacBook Pros sold haven't changed much year-over-year, they are absolutely comparable.

    And, the certain area isn't small.
    edited July 2019 chemengin1gatorguy
  • Reply 44 of 46
    sreesree Posts: 152member
    slurpy said:
    ireland said:
    Let’s see the arguments now from apologists who say there’s nothing wrong with the butterfly design. Turns out key-travel and reliability matter to people. Sadly, Apple will use this as yet one more justification for price increase.
    There is nothing wrong with the butterfly design. I've had multiple butterfly KBs with zero issues, as have many other people I know. There isn't a shred of real evidence that they're less reliable. Do you have any? Anecdotally, it seems that way because the clickbait industry has pounced on this, and one blog/youtube video about a KB issue gets shared millions of times. Apple claims there is not a higher percentage coming in for repairs compared to the scissor models, and I believe them. They may very well switch mechanisms for this machine, but could be due to more of a PR thing, since "butterfly keyboard" is now connected with negatives, based on this massive exaggeration and clickbait industry. I'm faster with the butterfly design, and I find typing is more comfortable and requires less effort. 

    And no, the price "increase" will e due to a fact that this will be a completely different machine. Just like how there's a price "increase" between the 8 and the X, or the XR and the XS. If you don't like the pricing, Apple sells other laptop models.

    I am going to ignore appleinsider's statistical study that showed atleast double the number of issues..
    I am going to ignore apple's keyboard replacement program..
    I am going to ignore all real experiences put up by genuine mac users in forums like these...
    I shall keep ignoring...
    tralalalalalalala....


    NO, i can't deal with lots of evidence ... only give me 'shreds of evidence'.... just some shreds I say!!!!!!

    henrybay
  • Reply 45 of 46
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,275member
    These reports have been potentially misleading IMO. Apple is most certainly not going to revert back to the "chiclet" style keyboard (which was initially received VERY poorly back when it debuted, but quickly adopted by the entire rest of the industry). This will be (assuming this rumour is even true) a new design that hopefully takes the good features of the butterfly keyboard (specifically the larger keypads) and blends them with a more reliable new mechanism.

    For the record I've now written well over 50K words on a butterfly keyboard with no issues, as have the vast majority of buyers, but I acknowledge that the problem rate of the current design seems to be more prone to issues.

    As for the 16-inch MBP, I'm thinking this will be much like the present 15-inch in physical dimensions, but with thinner bezels. I thus also doubt that huge price hike, but of course I could be wrong -- and with the 13-inch models now bargain-priced, I'm not sure I care all that much.
Sign In or Register to comment.