Apple's iPhone sales down 13% in Q3, accounts for less than half of total revenues

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    clarker99 said:
    Meanwhile the iOS installed user base has grown in every region including China. The grey market is massive positive for Apple. The machine keeps growing.  The Apple narrative should have moved beyond iPhone unit sales many moons ago. The ecosystem is a juggernaut. 

    Record quarter, strong guidance, amazing amounts spent on R & D and still enough money left over for $17b in stock buybacks. When will the negativity and false narratives end with Apple?  If you are focusing on iPhone unit sales and price you are doing it wrong. 
    It won’t, but you have to admit it’s sort of fun watching the likes of AvonB7 give themselves hernias trying to find bad news. 

    Fact is that this quarter has once again proved something that the observant have known for years: Apple isn’t a one-trick pony; it’s a master juggler, keeping the public focussed on a single ball while keeping the others in play. 

    Horace Dediu called it about two years ago: the company is less concerned with unit sales, and more concerned with how much revenue they can squeeze out of a device over its useful life. 
    watto_cobraAppleExposedBart Y
  • Reply 22 of 46
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,314member
    In the long run, this is a good thing. Apple had way too much dependence on the iPhone.
    No argument with this sentiment in general, but you have to recognize that Apple has created a very dynamic business environment around the iPhone  They’ve never sat on their hands or tried to milk an iPhone model beyond the point where it was boring or predictable. Blowout products like the iPhone are such game changers that they have an opportunity to reach disproportionate levels of influence over a company’s bottom line. From a business perspective there’s no shame in riding your best horse to its greatest potential when it’s still generating serious revenue in what has matured to be a saturated market. The big difference with Apple is that they have not only established a strong sustainable source of revenue but they’ve also used their groundbreaking product line to incubate other new products and services that have huge growth potential on their own. Heck, several of Apple’s individual products and services would stand alone as the single most influential product keeping a Fortune 500 company in a very healthy position.  The iPhone business is also similar to a top university, like an MIT or Stanford, that serves as an incubator for spinning up businesses in a particular region because of the university’s influence not only on technology but in attracting talent to work on next generation and follow on products. 
    AppleExposedBart Y
  • Reply 23 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
  • Reply 24 of 46
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    That’s nonsense. China is far more harmed in this trade dispute.
    AppleExposed
  • Reply 25 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
  • Reply 26 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member
    Rayz2016 said:

    clarker99 said:
    Meanwhile the iOS installed user base has grown in every region including China. The grey market is massive positive for Apple. The machine keeps growing.  The Apple narrative should have moved beyond iPhone unit sales many moons ago. The ecosystem is a juggernaut. 

    Record quarter, strong guidance, amazing amounts spent on R & D and still enough money left over for $17b in stock buybacks. When will the negativity and false narratives end with Apple?  If you are focusing on iPhone unit sales and price you are doing it wrong. 
    It won’t, but you have to admit it’s sort of fun watching the likes of AvonB7 give themselves hernias trying to find bad news. 

    Fact is that this quarter has once again proved something that the observant have known for years: Apple isn’t a one-trick pony; it’s a master juggler, keeping the public focussed on a single ball while keeping the others in play. 

    Horace Dediu called it about two years ago: the company is less concerned with unit sales, and more concerned with how much revenue they can squeeze out of a device over its useful life. 
    No hernia in sight.

    I have been consistently right in my observations on Apple's iPhone business. Virtually spot on in fact. I have been consistently right on Huawei's business too

    People howling in derision and countering with why it wouldn't happen, were simply wrong and now some are claiming that it had to happen and they knew the moment was coming! That's the complete opposite to what was being said by some just two years ago others were trying to claim there were no issues right up to basically the last minute.

    BTW and completely OT. I received my new passport yesterday and am more than a little peeved that it makes no mention of the European Union in spite of being in the EU format.
    edited July 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,285member
    melgross said:
    I don’t know where to put this, but on the conference call, Cook said that they were going to build the Mac Pro here. I’d like to see some follow up on that. No one asked a question about it when he made that revelation, but it was surprising. It was in conjunction with a short discussion about where Apple parts and materials are sourced, and where they’re assembled, though not much about the latter.
    To be specific, he said that they'd like to make the Mac Pro here. Not that they were going to.

    We've got some questions out.
    It sounded to me that he considered it to be a done deal. It went by so fast though, and nobody seemed to pick up on it. It could be why it’s so expensive.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,285member

    melgross said:
    I don’t know where to put this, but on the conference call, Cook said that they were going to build the Mac Pro here. I’d like to see some follow up on that. No one asked a question about it when he made that revelation, but it was surprising. It was in conjunction with a short discussion about where Apple parts and materials are sourced, and where they’re assembled, though not much about the latter.
    That would be good news. Whether it makes financial sense at this moment or not, Apple needs to wean themselves off of China manufacturing. Such overreliance on China is a long term loser until such a time as China is willing to actually open their own markets and obey WTO rules.
    A lot of people forget what Cook said last year in response to Trump’s talk about how Apple should manufacture here. He said that Apple had bought over $50 billion in parts and materials from US manufacturers the year before, to go into their products.

    apple does two things in China. One is to buy parts from manufacturers there that aren’t available elsewhere, or aren’t available at that cost, and two, is product assembly. Considering that US manufacturers send products to China for finishing makes it difficult to get those products directly from the US as a finished product. A good example is Corning’s Gorilla Glass. Corning makes the sheets, but doesn’t want to cut them to size, or polish the edges. So they send it to a company in China that was set up several years ago to do just that. So part of the value of the glass resides in that Chinese company. What can Apple do about that? Not much.

    but I think that people don’t understand how modern worldwide manufacturing takes place. A decent guess from Cooks statement has me thinking that about half, if not more, of what goes into Apple’s products is made here. The rest can come from anywhere.

    the assembly of a product is considered to be the least valuable step, with estimates as to how much Foxconn is getting to assemble the average iPhone as being anywhere between $6 and $9 dollars per,phone. That isn’t much. So how much will tariffs affect Apple’s pricing? That is, what percentage of the price of an Apple product will be subject to a tariff? It’s not normally going to be 100%, unless it’s some minor item entirely made there, possibly such as a cable, or maybe (and I’m not even sure of this) a charger, or case. It could be 75%, or 50%, or even 25%, depending on the product.
    watto_cobraAppleExposed
  • Reply 29 of 46
    clarker99clarker99 Posts: 230member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    AppleExposed
  • Reply 30 of 46
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    melgross said:

    melgross said:
    I don’t know where to put this, but on the conference call, Cook said that they were going to build the Mac Pro here. I’d like to see some follow up on that. No one asked a question about it when he made that revelation, but it was surprising. It was in conjunction with a short discussion about where Apple parts and materials are sourced, and where they’re assembled, though not much about the latter.
    That would be good news. Whether it makes financial sense at this moment or not, Apple needs to wean themselves off of China manufacturing. Such overreliance on China is a long term loser until such a time as China is willing to actually open their own markets and obey WTO rules.
    A lot of people forget what Cook said last year in response to Trump’s talk about how Apple should manufacture here. He said that Apple had bought over $50 billion in parts and materials from US manufacturers the year before, to go into their products.

    apple does two things in China. One is to buy parts from manufacturers there that aren’t available elsewhere, or aren’t available at that cost, and two, is product assembly. Considering that US manufacturers send products to China for finishing makes it difficult to get those products directly from the US as a finished product. A good example is Corning’s Gorilla Glass. Corning makes the sheets, but doesn’t want to cut them to size, or polish the edges. So they send it to a company in China that was set up several years ago to do just that. So part of the value of the glass resides in that Chinese company. What can Apple do about that? Not much.

    but I think that people don’t understand how modern worldwide manufacturing takes place. A decent guess from Cooks statement has me thinking that about half, if not more, of what goes into Apple’s products is made here. The rest can come from anywhere.

    the assembly of a product is considered to be the least valuable step, with estimates as to how much Foxconn is getting to assemble the average iPhone as being anywhere between $6 and $9 dollars per,phone. That isn’t much. So how much will tariffs affect Apple’s pricing? That is, what percentage of the price of an Apple product will be subject to a tariff? It’s not normally going to be 100%, unless it’s some minor item entirely made there, possibly such as a cable, or maybe (and I’m not even sure of this) a charger, or case. It could be 75%, or 50%, or even 25%, depending on the product.
    The price of assembly work in China is negligible, until it isn’t. What if the cost were doubled? Tripled? Quadrupled? We don’t know at this point how long the trade negotiations will go on or how much tariffs on China-assembled or manufactured goods could rise.
  • Reply 31 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    clarker99clarker99 Posts: 230member
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.
    More people are using iOS everywhere including China. Stop ignoring the facts. iPhone unit sales are not as meaningful as wall street or you are suggesting. 
    AppleExposed
  • Reply 33 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.
    More people are using iOS everywhere including China. Stop ignoring the facts. iPhone unit sales are not as meaningful as wall street or you are suggesting. 
    You mean stop ignoring the - facts - as provided by Apple?

    Sales are down in China YoY. Not just this quarter either. The U.S - China trade war with Huawei as a pawn is one of the factors involved. 
  • Reply 34 of 46
    clarker99clarker99 Posts: 230member
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.
    More people are using iOS everywhere including China. Stop ignoring the facts. iPhone unit sales are not as meaningful as wall street or you are suggesting. 
    You mean stop ignoring the - facts - as provided by Apple?

    Sales are down in China YoY. Not just this quarter either. The U.S - China trade war with Huawei as a pawn is one of the factors involved. 
    Apple provided the facts on iOS install base and More people are using iOS than ever before but sure sales are down and nonone is buying iPhones. Stop with the BS. Sales being down in China is not a Hauwei thing it is a trade war thing. If the iOS install base is growing then people are buying grey market devices to circumvent the Chinese govt’s push to use China made. 
    AppleExposed
  • Reply 35 of 46
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.
    More people are using iOS everywhere including China. Stop ignoring the facts. iPhone unit sales are not as meaningful as wall street or you are suggesting. 
    You mean stop ignoring the - facts - as provided by Apple?

    Sales are down in China YoY. Not just this quarter either. The U.S - China trade war with Huawei as a pawn is one of the factors involved. 

    iPhones last 3 years longer on average than knockoffs. Sales will go down as the install base rises.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member

    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.

    Can't go on a single fu**ing comment thread without hearing about Huawei from you.

    Why do you praise a company that's built on being a knockoff Apple so much???

    BTW You guys gotta see Huawei knockoff Apple Stores lol. The manager's like "how else is a tech store supposed to look?" SMH.
  • Reply 37 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,302member

    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.

    Can't go on a single fu**ing comment thread without hearing about Huawei from you.

    Why do you praise a company that's built on being a knockoff Apple so much???

    BTW You guys gotta see Huawei knockoff Apple Stores lol. The manager's like "how else is a tech store supposed to look?" SMH.
    Here is a paragraph from the article:

    As with the past three quarters, iPhone revenue suffered a year-over-year decline. Apple did see a  in sales in China year over year -- dropping $300 million compared to this quarter last year, but it was offset by growth in nearly every other geographical region.

    That YoY decline is not scotch mist. Nor was it in the previous quarter or the one before that.

    Huawei, whether you can see it or not, is one of the factors involved. In fact it is a major factor and there have been reports on this literally all year. How could you miss them?

    This is from what I understand is Mr Trump's favourite news channel and is fresher than ever (released yesterday!):

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/huawei-crushing-apple-china-trump-blacklisting-patriotic-choice




    edited July 2019
  • Reply 38 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,285member
    melgross said:

    melgross said:
    I don’t know where to put this, but on the conference call, Cook said that they were going to build the Mac Pro here. I’d like to see some follow up on that. No one asked a question about it when he made that revelation, but it was surprising. It was in conjunction with a short discussion about where Apple parts and materials are sourced, and where they’re assembled, though not much about the latter.
    That would be good news. Whether it makes financial sense at this moment or not, Apple needs to wean themselves off of China manufacturing. Such overreliance on China is a long term loser until such a time as China is willing to actually open their own markets and obey WTO rules.
    A lot of people forget what Cook said last year in response to Trump’s talk about how Apple should manufacture here. He said that Apple had bought over $50 billion in parts and materials from US manufacturers the year before, to go into their products.

    apple does two things in China. One is to buy parts from manufacturers there that aren’t available elsewhere, or aren’t available at that cost, and two, is product assembly. Considering that US manufacturers send products to China for finishing makes it difficult to get those products directly from the US as a finished product. A good example is Corning’s Gorilla Glass. Corning makes the sheets, but doesn’t want to cut them to size, or polish the edges. So they send it to a company in China that was set up several years ago to do just that. So part of the value of the glass resides in that Chinese company. What can Apple do about that? Not much.

    but I think that people don’t understand how modern worldwide manufacturing takes place. A decent guess from Cooks statement has me thinking that about half, if not more, of what goes into Apple’s products is made here. The rest can come from anywhere.

    the assembly of a product is considered to be the least valuable step, with estimates as to how much Foxconn is getting to assemble the average iPhone as being anywhere between $6 and $9 dollars per,phone. That isn’t much. So how much will tariffs affect Apple’s pricing? That is, what percentage of the price of an Apple product will be subject to a tariff? It’s not normally going to be 100%, unless it’s some minor item entirely made there, possibly such as a cable, or maybe (and I’m not even sure of this) a charger, or case. It could be 75%, or 50%, or even 25%, depending on the product.
    The price of assembly work in China is negligible, until it isn’t. What if the cost were doubled? Tripled? Quadrupled? We don’t know at this point how long the trade negotiations will go on or how much tariffs on China-assembled or manufactured goods could rise.
    There are certain things that can, and can’t be done. First, we have to know the value of the goods and services. Then, and this is a big one, we have to know whether the tariffs are going to be charged on that value—or the value of the retail price of those parts and services. In other words, pricing of most goods lies between about 2.5 and 3.5 times the cost of the parts. So in a $1,000 phone those parts may be, say $300 to Apple. But the value of those parts in a retail phone may be $500. I’m just giving an example so please don’t argue the exact values here. But, if only about 50% of those parts come from China, or the value of the parts are 50% from China, then the tariffs should be only on $150. But if they’re on the retail value, then they would be on $250. Of course, we have to add the value of the assembly, packaging, etc. But you get the point.

    as far as the cost of assembly going up, this is between Apple and Foxconn and their other assemblies. Why would they double or triple their prices? That would be a problem for everyone. But companies are competitive. If Foxconn tried to double or triple their pricing, Apple would begin to move work to Petagon (spelling) and other assemblers they use.

    interestingly, Chinese phones would have higher tariffs because it’s likely they use more parts made in China.
  • Reply 39 of 46
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    If you noticed what was said, and there are charts to back this up, the only real problem in a major market region was China. Sales in Europe were pretty much flat, but everywhere else, other than China, they were up. I do agree, as one whose family buys a new top iPhone model every two years, that prices have risen a bit too much. Believe it or not, it’s that top 10% in in price that can hurt the most. But sales in China were most heavily impacted by the action against, first, Huawei’s CTO, unheard of previously, the shutdown of Huawei’s access to American goods, which since has been relaxed, and Trump’s trade war. The Chinese government, through government owned/controlled media outlets has harangued the increasingly nationalistic Chinese public, to not buy foreign, particularly American, goods in favor of Chinese ones. Large organizations were even fining people for buying Apple phones instead of Huawei models. I don’t know if they’re still doing that.
    And the economic ruin that awaits China would end tomorrow if they’d simply stop acting like and expecting the benefits of being a growing third world country. They need to crack down on IP infringements and theft, smash the counterfeiting rings which operate in full view of the public and authorities (presumably with their blessings) and abide by WTO rules.
    Those are reasonable aspirations but taking a sledgehammer to the situation has done far more harm than good to U.S interests. 

    Tim Cook mentioned the global supply chain but the global supply chain now sees the U.S as an unreliable partner and is acting accordingly.

    Using Huawei as a pawn has also sent iPhone sales to the dumps while simultaneously helping to accelerate the process of companies weaning themselves off of U.S technology suppliers.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/yuwahedrickwong/2019/07/31/trump-may-win-his-battle-with-huawei-but-stands-to-lose-the-tech-war-with-china/#412daf7a33f0
    Huawei is not sending apple to the dumps. If they were then the iOS install base would be declining. Instead it is growing, in every market including China. Your narrative is completely false.
    I didn't actually say Huawei is sending Apple to the dumps.

    I said using Huawei as a pawn has sent Apple to the dumps.

    That is not even slightly false. The U.S attack on Huawei has had a direct negative impact on Apple's sales in China. It hasn't been the only factor because there are many but it's had an impact and it has been widely commented on.

    Can't go on a single fu**ing comment thread without hearing about Huawei from you.

    Why do you praise a company that's built on being a knockoff Apple so much???

    BTW You guys gotta see Huawei knockoff Apple Stores lol. The manager's like "how else is a tech store supposed to look?" SMH.
    Here is a paragraph from the article:

    As with the past three quarters, iPhone revenue suffered a year-over-year decline. Apple did see a  in sales in China year over year -- dropping $300 million compared to this quarter last year, but it was offset by growth in nearly every other geographical region.

    That YoY decline is not scotch mist. Nor was it in the previous quarter or the one before that.

    Huawei, whether you can see it or not, is one of the factors involved. In fact it is a major factor and there have been reports on this literally all year. How could you miss them?

    This is from what I understand is Mr Trump's favourite news channel and is fresher than ever (released yesterday!):

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/huawei-crushing-apple-china-trump-blacklisting-patriotic-choice




    Again, Apple’s iOS install base grew in China. Maybe the Chinese arent as patriotic as you would believe.
  • Reply 40 of 46
    seanj said:
    Top of the line iPhones are expensive, do not come with physical programs or features that you can't get on an Android, and have spent 3 or 4 years pushing AR without a lot of success. They were first with Touch and Face ID, but that's a security feature (both good ones) that don't really get buyers excited. I don't know what the feature is, but they need to come out with something that other phones don't already have, and probably at a sub $1000 price.
    5G next feature to pull in customers wanting to upgrade from their old 4G phones 
    But Android will have 5G this year, although much of the U.S. doesn’t support 5G yet. And today I heard that Samsung, probably Apples largest rival, also had a down year with their flagship phones, so it’s probably true that everyone’s top of the line didn’t do very well. I’m more excited by the possibilities with whatever the Gen 5 watch brings than for the 2020 iPhone. I didn’t get the LTE Watch 4, I got the WiFi only, but there have been numerous times that I wish I had. Phones are verboten at work, but the watch is allowed. I don’t know that I would want to be miles from nowhere with just the watch but it’s been a lot more useful to me than I thought.
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