To be honest, this seems like a pretty average card. Very average interest rates, certainly nothing great.
Bullshit 'honesty'. People like to cherry pick the lesser aspects of the Apple Card for comparison and totally ignore the unique features of the Apple Card, and then declare it average or below average on all fronts, ie nothing great. These people would make average used car salesmen.
....
Speaking for myself, those "unique features" have little attraction for me and likely won't get used much. Which is partly because I already have my cards, their balances and my finances under very tight control: 99.9% of my spending goes on a card (95% under Apple Pay) while the receipt goes in my wallet where it gets entered into Quicken when I get home and then filed. At the end of the month the account is reconciled in a couple minutes with a download from the card company and the balance paid off. Quicken gives me detailed and summary reporting of all of my spending and income across all my accounts going back more than 20 years.
So, basically, I'm already doing more than what this card could possibly offer me. But, I realize that I am the exception -- so I respect what this card can offer to more sane and normal people who prefer to enjoy life rather than track it.
That said, it sounds like a good, decent card that I plan to use as my 'daily driver'.
To be honest, this seems like a pretty average card. Very average interest rates, certainly nothing great.
Bullshit 'honesty'. People like to cherry pick the lesser aspects of the Apple Card for comparison and totally ignore the unique features of the Apple Card, and then declare it average or below average on all fronts, ie nothing great. These people would make average used car salesmen.
One other problem I just thought of - the card number is not on the card anywhere, which means when I call to make reservations, purchase something online, etc it's mostly useless.
You're not thinking clearly. It's been mentioned many, many times why the card has no numbers on it anywhere. It's also been mentioned many, many times in practically the same breath and sentences that a user can get the card number, CCV, and even a virtual number from the Wallet for those online situations where Apple Pay is accepted.
I’m not sure who this card is for besides die hard Apple fans who have to have everything Apple releases.
More FUD bullshit. People should pop their head out of their assholes long enough to actually understand not only what the card can't do, but what it can do. Otherwise they're spewing 10lbs of bullshit into a 5lb sack.
The card had benefits or a combination of benefits that no other card or combination of cards has. If that isn't for you, fine. If your card suit your better, fine. If the Apple Card isn't for you, fine. But there's no need to be stupid about it. Especially publicly stupid.
There is no one card that's the best in every possible aspect of a credit card. That's obvious as so many people have more than a couple cards. Nobody is saying the AC is the best card. Objectivity is the first casualty of idiots on parade.
Lose your credit card? Discover it compromised? Call the bank, put a stop on it, wait for new card by mail, or maybe if you're lucky, but expedited courier. Not every card offers that service. With the Apple Card, cancel it from the Wallet app, get assigned a new number, and your physical card will be sent, but there's now no hurry. Your Wallet is up and running as is Apple Pay. Maybe you've never lost a card or had one 'hacked', so this is of no use to you. Fair point.
Can't find your card? You might have lost it but maybe you misplaced it? Call and cancel, or take a chance and wait to see if it turns up? Just turn it off in Wallet. Now you can look around while not in a panic. Maybe that hasn't happened to you either. Fair point. But I'm sure it has to a lot of others who aren't diehard Apple fans who have to have everything Apple releases. Jesus Fucking H. Christ.
The fact that you have to swear like that to get your point across...
Again, let’s see how well it does. My guess is it will have some success but I don’t see many people dropping their current card for it. Or adding it as another card. I am curious to see how Apple markets it and how much marketing they do for it. I guarantee you most of my family and friends don’t even know it’s coming.
Per Nilson these are the biggest credit card issued by banks. Unfortunately the count doesn't include co-branded credit cards. I read somewhere, unfortunately I don't remember where, that Costco was the most popular co-branded card at around 30 million users.
1. Chase – 92M Cardholders. 2. Capital One – 89M Cardholders. 3. Citi – 68M Cardholders. 4. Bank of America – 55M Cardholders. 5. Discover – 51M Cardholders. 6. American Express – 37M Cardholders. 7. Synchrony – 28M Cardholders. 8. Wells Fargo – 24M Cardholders. 9. U.S. Bank – 22M Cardholders. 10. Barclays – 16M Cardholders.
Apple's iPhone user base in the the U.S is estimated to be 173 million. I don't think it is a stretch to see them in the middle of the pack within the first year of Apple Card being out. It will be easy enough to market to their user base and what I assume will be the relative convince of applying and managing will likely win the day for a lot of people. So yeah, 30-40 million users in a year? I think that is totally achievable. That would make it the most popular co-branded card in the U.S. and make Goldman a big deal in the credit card game pretty quickly.
To be honest, this seems like a pretty average card. Very average interest rates, certainly nothing great.
Bullshit 'honesty'. People like to cherry pick the lesser aspects of the Apple Card for comparison and totally ignore the unique features of the Apple Card, and then declare it average or below average on all fronts, ie nothing great. These people would make average used car salesmen.
One other problem I just thought of - the card number is not on the card anywhere, which means when I call to make reservations, purchase something online, etc it's mostly useless.
You're not thinking clearly. It's been mentioned many, many times why the card has no numbers on it anywhere. It's also been mentioned many, many times in practically the same breath and sentences that a user can get the card number, CCV, and even a virtual number from the Wallet for those online situations where Apple Pay is accepted.
I’m not sure who this card is for besides die hard Apple fans who have to have everything Apple releases.
More FUD bullshit. People should pop their head out of their assholes long enough to actually understand not only what the card can't do, but what it can do. Otherwise they're spewing 10lbs of bullshit into a 5lb sack.
The card had benefits or a combination of benefits that no other card or combination of cards has. If that isn't for you, fine. If your card suit your better, fine. If the Apple Card isn't for you, fine. But there's no need to be stupid about it. Especially publicly stupid.
There is no one card that's the best in every possible aspect of a credit card. That's obvious as so many people have more than a couple cards. Nobody is saying the AC is the best card. Objectivity is the first casualty of idiots on parade.
Lose your credit card? Discover it compromised? Call the bank, put a stop on it, wait for new card by mail, or maybe if you're lucky, but expedited courier. Not every card offers that service. With the Apple Card, cancel it from the Wallet app, get assigned a new number, and your physical card will be sent, but there's now no hurry. Your Wallet is up and running as is Apple Pay. Maybe you've never lost a card or had one 'hacked', so this is of no use to you. Fair point.
Can't find your card? You might have lost it but maybe you misplaced it? Call and cancel, or take a chance and wait to see if it turns up? Just turn it off in Wallet. Now you can look around while not in a panic. Maybe that hasn't happened to you either. Fair point. But I'm sure it has to a lot of others who aren't diehard Apple fans who have to have everything Apple releases. Jesus Fucking H. Christ.
The fact that you have to swear like that to get your point across...
Again, let’s see how well it does. My guess is it will have some success but I don’t see many people dropping their current card for it. Or adding it as another card. I am curious to see how Apple markets it and how much marketing they do for it. I guarantee you most of my family and friends don’t even know it’s coming.
Credit cards typically don’t work that way. We arend to keep multiple cards for a variety of reasons.
That said, I will certainly be dropping my Barclay Apple card for the GS Apple Card.
Again, let’s see how well it does. My guess is it will have some success but I don’t see many people dropping their current card for it. Or adding it as another card. I am curious to see how Apple markets it and how much marketing they do for it. I guarantee you most of my family and friends don’t even know it’s coming.
Many people have multiple credit cards and use them depending on the circumstances. I have six credit cards, all of them no annual fee. I pay them off every month so the interest rates are irrelevant to me:
Card A: superior customer service, extended warranty protection, recent purchase protection, rental car insurance coverage, average rewards program. Excellent travel related services. My credit history goes back to the Nineties with this issuer. I use this card for big ticket hardware purchases (for the extended warranty and purchase protection) and all domestic travel arrangements as well as international flights.
Card B: largest credit limit. 3% cash back at restaurants (so I always use this card for that). Credit history ~20 years. This issuer also allows me to generate single use or recurring use credit card numbers for online merchants/service providers.
Card C: revolving rewards program. This quarter it is 5% cash back at gas stations. ~20 yr. credit history.
Card F: the issuer is my brokerage. 2% cash back on all purchases regardless of transaction type (swipe, EMV, Apple Pay, card not present), automatic monthly deposit of rewards into my primary brokerage account. Fairly short credit history.
Card K: no foreign transaction fees. Mediocre rewards program that only gives out gift cards (I fund my iTunes Store account with these). I use this card when I travel overseas. It is the card from my credit union; I've been with them since the Nineties. They are very nice.
Card V: no foreign transaction fees. 1.25% cash back. I use this card as well when I travel overseas. Smaller credit line, shorter credit history.
So the three cards that are usually in my wallet are F (general purchases, 2%), B (restaurants, 3%), and A.
When I travel overseas, F and B are removed and replaced with the two cards with no foreign transaction fees K and V.
I'll definitely apply for the Apple Card. My primary use would be for Apple Pay transactions when traveling overseas (2% rewards). I doubt I would ever use the physical titanium Apple Card.
One thing for sure, Apple will market the card to anyone with an iDevice running iOS 12.4. They can just pop a notification on the device ("Apple Card is here! Learn more about applying") with the appropriate graphic. Theoretically, they could put some sort of advertisement in the Wallet app and perhaps other places: iOS Settings, macOS Settings, various storefronts (iTunes Store, Apple Store, etc.).
They also have a very large mailing list (iCloud, iTunes Store accounts) that have valid e-mail addresses. Theoretically, they could just send out a mass e-mail to every iCloud/iTunes Store account owner with a U.S. credit card on file.
It's not all that important that your friends and family don't know about. All that it says is they don't read business or technology news; the Apple Card has been covered multiple times by many publications including *ALL* of the major business periodicals (Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, etc.), not just Apple rumor sites. The Apple Card isn't available yet anyhow.
It's okay to have more than one credit card. In fact, the FICO score formula favors multiple lines of credit. They look at credit line history, age of credit, and credit utilization.
Having $4000 on a sole card with a $5000 credit limit is 80% utilization. Having the same amount spread between six cards with a total of $100,000 combined credit is 4% utilization.
And what does it matter? Well, credit scores are used for a lot of things, not just home loans and auto loans. That said, saving 0.25% on a 30 year mortgage is actually a pretty big deal. For a $600,000 30-yr. loan, the difference in interest between a 4% loan and a 3.75% loan is about $31,000.
These days insurers, employers, and landlords are looking more closely at credit scores. Let's say Person A and Person B inquire about renting an apartment. All other things equal, if Person A has a 575 credit score and Person B has a 805 credit score, who do you think the landlord will be more inclined to rent to?
And it's not just people who get rated for credit. Companies and governments get rated as well. Companies with poor credit scores have to pay much higher rates when they borrow money. There's an industry term for that: junk.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
I can. I choose the Apple Cash card and then tap “Add Money”. That money comes out of my checking account. If not that way how does one initially put money into the Apple Cash account (other than and Apple Cash payment from someone else, but how did they get money into Apple Cash?)?
That is likely via a debit card, not ACH transfer. I put money in from a MC gift card.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
That’s instant for me trom my checking account via a debit card. Your bank doesn‘t offer a debit card?
I don't want a debit card. I never use them, and it is another source of liability.
I'd rather use a debit card for, well debits, than using my bank account and routing numbers. If my debit (or credit card) becomes compromised I can cancel that card and replace it with a quick call not to mention getting any charges credited back, but canceling my bank account so I can reopen another one requires me going into my bank, sitting down with someone. It's just a hassle. I really dislike the few accounts that require me to put in that info for the convenience of using it online just to save them a couple percentage points. I wish debit cards could be used for credits beyond charge backs.
Yeh, if your cards are used fraudently you are pretty well protected. If your routing & account numbers are used fraudently you are mostly on your own -- there's no $50 limit -- and meanwhile your account can be drained which then may trigger a rash of fees for minimum deposits, NSFs, etc....
I don't think this is true. An account holder is not responsible for a fraudulent transfer. There are diligence requirements of course, but there are limits of liability.
The fact my wife and I can’t use the same card account lowers its appeal to us. We will still get it because Apple but it sucks we will have two separate bills and our spending won’t be merged in the analytics.
The latter is the bigger problem, in my view. We had talked about only having this one card. We could do it — we only have two now. But the main reason to do it would be to consolidate all of the good Apple analytics in one place. I trust Apple to do a good job with that, and to protect my data. Without that simplicity factor, though, we will opt to keep one of our existing cards, at least until Apple gives us a way to link the two accounts.
That is because you and your wife may get divorce and Apple does not want her account tied to your's, where have you been didn't you know you're not allow to know what your wife spend money on.
That response is straight from the lunatic fringe
Maybe, but as an old guy who has been through a divorce (and it was a very friendly divorce), I do advise all my married friends to have separate bank accounts or separate bank accounts in addition to one joint account, especially if both people are bringing home a paycheck. .
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
I can. I choose the Apple Cash card and then tap “Add Money”. That money comes out of my checking account. If not that way how does one initially put money into the Apple Cash account (other than and Apple Cash payment from someone else, but how did they get money into Apple Cash?)?
That is likely via a debit card, not ACH transfer. I put money in from a MC gift card.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
That’s instant for me trom my checking account via a debit card. Your bank doesn‘t offer a debit card?
I don't want a debit card. I never use them, and it is another source of liability.
I'd rather use a debit card for, well debits, than using my bank account and routing numbers. If my debit (or credit card) becomes compromised I can cancel that card and replace it with a quick call not to mention getting any charges credited back, but canceling my bank account so I can reopen another one requires me going into my bank, sitting down with someone. It's just a hassle. I really dislike the few accounts that require me to put in that info for the convenience of using it online just to save them a couple percentage points. I wish debit cards could be used for credits beyond charge backs.
Yeh, if your cards are used fraudently you are pretty well protected. If your routing & account numbers are used fraudently you are mostly on your own -- there's no $50 limit -- and meanwhile your account can be drained which then may trigger a rash of fees for minimum deposits, NSFs, etc....
I don't think this is true. An account holder is not responsible for a fraudulent transfer. There are diligence requirements of course, but there are limits of liability.
“The Electronic Fund Transfer Act provides consumers relief from fraudulent electronic transactions. If you report a loss within two days of discovery, you will only be responsible for $50. If you report a fraudulent transaction after two days but within 60 days, your losses are limited to $500. If you fail to report a fraudulent transaction within 60 days of discovery, you may face liability for the entire amount of the fraudulent transaction unless your bank has additional safeguards that go above those provided by the law.”
Again, let’s see how well it does. My guess is it will have some success but I don’t see many people dropping their current card for it. Or adding it as another card. I am curious to see how Apple markets it and how much marketing they do for it. I guarantee you most of my family and friends don’t even know it’s coming.
Many people have multiple credit cards and use them depending on the circumstances. I have six credit cards, all of them no annual fee. I pay them off every month so the interest rates are irrelevant to me:
I agree. When I'm at a supermarket and I see some people pull out their wallets, you can see that they have 20+ credit cards. Personally, I'm down to a debit and three credit cards, one of which is an airline affinity card. One of those cards is the new "Payboo" card from B&H Photo. B&H is a very large photo/electronics dealer in NYC that is also an Apple authorized dealer. Their credit card has a very high interest rate (which doesn't concern me because like you, I always pay it off within the month), but it gives you back the equivalent of sales tax. So in NYC, that's a rebate of 8.875% which is obviously much greater than Apple's 3% rebate on Apple hardware ordered from them. However, I'm not sure you can turn that rebate into cash - I think it stays on the card as a credit and the card is only good at B&H. But obviously on a purchase like a MacBook Pro, that's a very nice savings, especially considering that a "point" on rewards cards is generally only worth about 7/10 of a cent.
But I could see myself using the Apple Card for most other things, especially the things that I put on the debit card today in order to save the 1% or 2%.
A late-2018 report indicated that Americans hold $423.8 billion in revolving credit card debt and $949 billion in total credit card debt. The average household owes $6721 in revolving debt. Anyone who is paying 18-24% on such money is out of their minds, but I suppose many feel no recourse and do it anyway, paying the minimum payment each month. That total credit card debt is small compared to other kinds of debt (mortgages: $9.24 trillion, auto loans: $1.28 trillion, student loans: $1.49 trillion), but it's still a big number.
Again, let’s see how well it does. My guess is it will have some success but I don’t see many people dropping their current card for it. Or adding it as another card. I am curious to see how Apple markets it and how much marketing they do for it. I guarantee you most of my family and friends don’t even know it’s coming.
Many people have multiple credit cards and use them depending on the circumstances. I have six credit cards, all of them no annual fee. I pay them off every month so the interest rates are irrelevant to me:
I agree. When I'm at a supermarket and I see some people pull out their wallets, you can see that they have 20+ credit cards. Personally, I'm down to a debit and three credit cards, one of which is an airline affinity card. One of those cards is the new "Payboo" card from B&H Photo. B&H is a very large photo/electronics dealer in NYC that is also an Apple authorized dealer. Their credit card has a very high interest rate (which doesn't concern me because like you, I always pay it off within the month), but it gives you back the equivalent of sales tax. So in NYC, that's a rebate of 8.875% which is obviously much greater than Apple's 3% rebate on Apple hardware ordered from them. However, I'm not sure you can turn that rebate into cash - I think it stays on the card as a credit and the card is only good at B&H. But obviously on a purchase like a MacBook Pro, that's a very nice savings, especially considering that a "point" on rewards cards is generally only worth about 7/10 of a cent.
But I could see myself using the Apple Card for most other things, especially the things that I put on the debit card today in order to save the 1% or 2%.
A late-2018 report indicated that Americans hold $423.8 billion in revolving credit card debt and $949 billion in total credit card debt. The average household owes $6721 in revolving debt. Anyone who is paying 18-24% on such money is out of their minds, but I suppose many feel no recourse and do it anyway, paying the minimum payment each month. That total credit card debt is small compared to other kinds of debt (mortgages: $9.24 trillion, auto loans: $1.28 trillion, student loans: $1.49 trillion), but it's still a big number.
For buying a new Mac I like my Barclay Apple Card because it’s 3% off after the reduced student/teacher price. I think that makes it around 10% off.
I could save slightly more with having one shipped from an online store with no sales tax and some other promotion applied, but that’s not worth it to me since I have to deal with less customer service and then wait for supplies to become available. For new Macs this tends to be too long, especially for any atypical configuration.
6-7K of revolving debt is scary stuff. I'm in the UK, have 2 c/cards... one for big purchases (in the thousands) and one for daily spending. Both are cleared completely every month, no debt (no interest charges). What's the point of all that interest on a c/card ? Surely it is best to spend on what you can only afford. I guess everyone has their own ways of managing their finances. If the card comes to the UK, I'll try it out. My only concern is how good GS are at keeping your data safe, I trust Apple so they are not the issue to me. Also, how good is the banking app on the phone ? My Barclaycard one is very good, and shows transactions which are pending (have an auth against them) as well as cleared transactions. Due to that, it is my favourite. The other is with my Bank and thus is the one with the larger credit limit. Over here, the more cards you have, the more you completely screw your credit rating. For me, safety these days of my info has taken over in my mind, so it's the best app and the safest company which I will go with. If the card offers both of those, then I'll switch from one of my cards to it. GS already have had a presence in the UK for some time now with their Marcus Bank for savings which is quite popular as it has a 1.5% interest on savings accounts (yep, 1.5%, over here that is huge !!). Also, as one of the other contributors has said, cheques for payments in the UK are quite rare (same day bank transfer is now the norm), most banking here is online now, and most people use chip and pin or contactless cards (like Apple Pay on the phone). Looking forward to see what we get :-)
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
I can. I choose the Apple Cash card and then tap “Add Money”. That money comes out of my checking account. If not that way how does one initially put money into the Apple Cash account (other than and Apple Cash payment from someone else, but how did they get money into Apple Cash?)?
That is likely via a debit card, not ACH transfer. I put money in from a MC gift card.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
That’s instant for me trom my checking account via a debit card. Your bank doesn‘t offer a debit card?
I don't want a debit card. I never use them, and it is another source of liability.
I'd rather use a debit card for, well debits, than using my bank account and routing numbers. If my debit (or credit card) becomes compromised I can cancel that card and replace it with a quick call not to mention getting any charges credited back, but canceling my bank account so I can reopen another one requires me going into my bank, sitting down with someone. It's just a hassle. I really dislike the few accounts that require me to put in that info for the convenience of using it online just to save them a couple percentage points. I wish debit cards could be used for credits beyond charge backs.
Yeh, if your cards are used fraudently you are pretty well protected. If your routing & account numbers are used fraudently you are mostly on your own -- there's no $50 limit -- and meanwhile your account can be drained which then may trigger a rash of fees for minimum deposits, NSFs, etc....
I don't think this is true. An account holder is not responsible for a fraudulent transfer. There are diligence requirements of course, but there are limits of liability.
I think the onus will be on you to prove it was fraudulent -- that you or somebody you authorized didn't do it. Meanwhile, while you do that, your account has been cleaned out and your checks bouncing all over the place. If nothing else, it's the same caution given about using Debit Cards -- it's your money being directly exposed instead of the bank's money.
I suspect that one big reason it is not a major problem is the banking system is so tied down that the transaction would be fairly easy for an investigator to track directly to a company or person. And the penalties are steep.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
I can. I choose the Apple Cash card and then tap “Add Money”. That money comes out of my checking account. If not that way how does one initially put money into the Apple Cash account (other than and Apple Cash payment from someone else, but how did they get money into Apple Cash?)?
That is likely via a debit card, not ACH transfer. I put money in from a MC gift card.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
That’s instant for me trom my checking account via a debit card. Your bank doesn‘t offer a debit card?
I don't want a debit card. I never use them, and it is another source of liability.
I'd rather use a debit card for, well debits, than using my bank account and routing numbers. If my debit (or credit card) becomes compromised I can cancel that card and replace it with a quick call not to mention getting any charges credited back, but canceling my bank account so I can reopen another one requires me going into my bank, sitting down with someone. It's just a hassle. I really dislike the few accounts that require me to put in that info for the convenience of using it online just to save them a couple percentage points. I wish debit cards could be used for credits beyond charge backs.
Yeh, if your cards are used fraudently you are pretty well protected. If your routing & account numbers are used fraudently you are mostly on your own -- there's no $50 limit -- and meanwhile your account can be drained which then may trigger a rash of fees for minimum deposits, NSFs, etc....
I don't think this is true. An account holder is not responsible for a fraudulent transfer. There are diligence requirements of course, but there are limits of liability.
I think the onus will be on you to prove it was fraudulent -- that you or somebody you authorized didn't do it. Meanwhile, while you do that, your account has been cleaned out and your checks bouncing all over the place. If nothing else, it's the same caution given about using Debit Cards -- it's your money being directly exposed instead of the bank's money.
I suspect that one big reason it is not a major problem is the banking system is so tied down that the transaction would be fairly easy for an investigator to track directly to a company or person. And the penalties are steep.
The nice thing about credit cards over debit cards or direct transfers is the issuing bank is a buffer between the payee and your money. In the event of a fraudulent charge, the bank has paid the charge and covers it while you dispute it. With a debit card, even if you are technically not liable, the money is gone out of your account until your bank decides to credit it back. In the mean time, you have no access to the funds which you may need for a mortgage, car payments, etc. This is why I use a credit card for everything and only use my debit card at the ATM.
Serous question - For the people planning on getting the Apple Card, I'm curious why? What attracts you to the Apple Card and/or what benefits do you see that you don't already get with the cards in your wallet? Are there specific features, is it just because it's new and you support Apple? Is it because the card looks kinda cool? As I said earlier, personally it doesn't really give any benefits and I don't need another card so there's really no reason for me to get one but I'm curious about other's rationale.
Serous question - For the people planning on getting the Apple Card, I'm curious why? What attracts you to the Apple Card and/or what benefits do you see that you don't already get with the cards in your wallet? Are there specific features, is it just because it's new and you support Apple? Is it because the card looks kinda cool? As I said earlier, personally it doesn't really give any benefits and I don't need another card so there's really no reason for me to get one but I'm curious about other's rationale.
My primary usage case would be Apple Pay transactions while traveling abroad since A.) 2% cash back rewards, and B.) no foreign transaction fees. I have two other credit cards that have no foreign transaction fees but less generous cash back rewards. For swipe or EMV foreign transactions, I would probably use one of those two cards since the Apple Card only gives 1% cash back for non-Apple Pay transactions.
The secondary usage case for me would be Apple Store/iTunes Store purchases (3% cash back), but not for big ticket items. I purchase the latter with a different card that provides A.) extended warranty coverage, B.) recent purchase protection, and C.) a cash back reward (albeit smaller). I don't purchase AppleCare, I'm okay with just getting an extra year of warranty coverage from the credit card issuer gratis.
I cannot foresee any instance where I would use the physical titanium Apple Card (1% cash back). It will end up in the binder with the other cards that don't typically live in my wallet.
My brokerage's credit card gives 2% cash back on all purchases regardless of transaction type (swipe, EMV, Apple Pay, card not present) but they collect foreign transaction fees. I expect to continue using this card for most domestic ordinary purchases (the main exception being restaurants -- I have a card that gives 3% back on those). I like that my brokerage's credit card automatically deposits my cash back rewards on a monthly basis. I know that a dollar in one account is the same 100 cents as a dollar in another account, but when it's in my brokerage account I am far more inclined to invest it rather than to spend it. When I do withdraw money from my brokerage account, I ask myself "What is your valid justification for doing this?"
Once I get my Apple Card, I will investigate more closely to see if I can have the Apple Card rewards automatically credited to my brokerage account. I wonder if Goldman Sachs will allow me to easily transfer these funds to a rival brokerage...
In summary, I would use the Apple Card sparingly in US domestic transactions from Apple, the little knick-knack or accessory since my iTunes Store account is funded with discounted iTunes Store gift cards or ones that one of my credit card issuers provide through their rewards program. I would use the Apple Card for foreign transactions that allow for NFC contactless payments. In some countries, that's like 95% of the transactions.
"The company is also threatening to cut off access for people with jailbroken devices."
Presumably they're worried about malware?
"The highest return rate, 3%, applies only to purchases directly from Apple…"
That could be seen as yet another anti-competitive policy and may come back to bite them.
LOL. In other news, Starbucks only gives you points when you purchase coffee at Starbucks, not other coffee shops. The biggest confusion people have is that they think anything you do to give your company an edge over competitors is "anti-completive" or potentially illegal when, in fact, it is what every business does every day. It's only when you do something, like agree to fix prices, that it is illegal.
It wasn’t clear to me whether or not you can pay off your balance in full every month and have zero interest charges.
Are you kidding?
This is covered in the second section of the very first page.
Pay the entire amount due by the due date and you won't get charged interest. Just like any other freakin' credit card in the US. FOR DECADES.
If you don't understand what Goldman Sachs wrote in their cardholder customer agreement, you probably shouldn't be handling money, whether it's yours or someone else's.
Have you tried reading out-loud the post you just made? There's enough anger in there to strain even a normal heart.
Oh, absolutely. It needed a bit of tweaking to get the tenor just right, but I'm happy with it. It was pretty effortless, but thank you for your concern.
It wasn't anger, but there was some frustration at the continued propagation of erroneous information and outright stupid conclusions offered as fact.
Someone can say 'I like this because it's blue' or 'I don't like this because it's not blue'. The color may nave nothing at all to do with the primary purpose or functionality of an item in question. You like what you like and don't what you don't.
But one's personal preferences don't often if ever, change the intrinsic value of said item for others. To continually, and stupidly go on and on, deliberately or ignorantly condemning something without even a nod to objectivity, at best does a disservice to anybody know knowing any better. It calls into question the motivation of the offerer of FUD.
The Apple Card has some unique features (ie not found on/with other cards). I predict that in the not to distant future, other card issuers will adopt some of those features. And the accompanying app is a multi-faceted tool to encourage and help a user be a more responsible spender. I see that as unique in the credit world, where pages of terms and conditions boil down to 'you must make the minimum payment on time' where that payment, at least in the past, did little to pay off the principle.
I think this will be like the 'Phone- starting off slowly, and eventually influencing card features and policy significantly. The AC is not one card to rule them all. But then no card is. Unless you're very rich then the AMEX Black card might be that card. I dunno.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
I can. I choose the Apple Cash card and then tap “Add Money”. That money comes out of my checking account. If not that way how does one initially put money into the Apple Cash account (other than and Apple Cash payment from someone else, but how did they get money into Apple Cash?)?
That is likely via a debit card, not ACH transfer. I put money in from a MC gift card.
You can make electronic payments using Apple Wallet to initiate electronic fund transfers (e.g., ACH or debit) from your (i) Apple Cash account or (ii) a bank account(s) with a financial institution located in the U.S. (each, a "Payment Source Account").
It seems this is the exclusive way to pay, i.e. you cannot opt to receive a paper statement in the mail, and drop a check back to them; or go to a web site to pay via ACH. It also seems to imply that an ACH fund transfer option is coming to Apple Wallet (in addition to the debit card option already there.) I am guessing that Apple Wallet will allow scanning of a blank check.
[edit] it might actually be easier than that. I have bank amount information in Apple Wallet now so as to be able to transfer FROM Apple Pay Cash to the bank; perhaps they will simply alter this at rollout to allow transfer TO Apple Pay cash via that same ACH information.
I don’t know if I’m following 100%, but I’d say ACH is already an option with Apple Cash (formally Apple Pay Cash). They asp have an instant wire option for a smal fee.
I typically use thé ACH when I transfer to my bank since it usually happens same day.
It is not currently an option. You can't ACH funds from a bank account TO Apple Pay Cash.
That’s instant for me trom my checking account via a debit card. Your bank doesn‘t offer a debit card?
I don't want a debit card. I never use them, and it is another source of liability.
I'd rather use a debit card for, well debits, than using my bank account and routing numbers. If my debit (or credit card) becomes compromised I can cancel that card and replace it with a quick call not to mention getting any charges credited back, but canceling my bank account so I can reopen another one requires me going into my bank, sitting down with someone. It's just a hassle. I really dislike the few accounts that require me to put in that info for the convenience of using it online just to save them a couple percentage points. I wish debit cards could be used for credits beyond charge backs.
Yeh, if your cards are used fraudently you are pretty well protected. If your routing & account numbers are used fraudently you are mostly on your own -- there's no $50 limit -- and meanwhile your account can be drained which then may trigger a rash of fees for minimum deposits, NSFs, etc....
I don't think this is true. An account holder is not responsible for a fraudulent transfer. There are diligence requirements of course, but there are limits of liability.
I think the onus will be on you to prove it was fraudulent -- that you or somebody you authorized didn't do it. Meanwhile, while you do that, your account has been cleaned out and your checks bouncing all over the place. If nothing else, it's the same caution given about using Debit Cards -- it's your money being directly exposed instead of the bank's money.
I suspect that one big reason it is not a major problem is the banking system is so tied down that the transaction would be fairly easy for an investigator to track directly to a company or person. And the penalties are steep.
Again, I don't think it works like this. I will never have "chess bouncing all over the pace" because I don't write checks. Never use them. Your point is fair in that perhaps a debit card is a buffer others need. I do not.
Comments
So, basically, I'm already doing more than what this card could possibly offer me. But, I realize that I am the exception -- so I respect what this card can offer to more sane and normal people who prefer to enjoy life rather than track it.
That said, it sounds like a good, decent card that I plan to use as my 'daily driver'.
1. Chase – 92M Cardholders.
2. Capital One – 89M Cardholders.
3. Citi – 68M Cardholders.
4. Bank of America – 55M Cardholders.
5. Discover – 51M Cardholders.
6. American Express – 37M Cardholders.
7. Synchrony – 28M Cardholders.
8. Wells Fargo – 24M Cardholders.
9. U.S. Bank – 22M Cardholders.
10. Barclays – 16M Cardholders.
Apple's iPhone user base in the the U.S is estimated to be 173 million. I don't think it is a stretch to see them in the middle of the pack within the first year of Apple Card being out. It will be easy enough to market to their user base and what I assume will be the relative convince of applying and managing will likely win the day for a lot of people. So yeah, 30-40 million users in a year? I think that is totally achievable. That would make it the most popular co-branded card in the U.S. and make Goldman a big deal in the credit card game pretty quickly.
That said, I will certainly be dropping my Barclay Apple card for the GS Apple Card.
So the three cards that are usually in my wallet are F (general purchases, 2%), B (restaurants, 3%), and A.
When I travel overseas, F and B are removed and replaced with the two cards with no foreign transaction fees K and V.
I'll definitely apply for the Apple Card. My primary use would be for Apple Pay transactions when traveling overseas (2% rewards). I doubt I would ever use the physical titanium Apple Card.
One thing for sure, Apple will market the card to anyone with an iDevice running iOS 12.4. They can just pop a notification on the device ("Apple Card is here! Learn more about applying") with the appropriate graphic. Theoretically, they could put some sort of advertisement in the Wallet app and perhaps other places: iOS Settings, macOS Settings, various storefronts (iTunes Store, Apple Store, etc.).
They also have a very large mailing list (iCloud, iTunes Store accounts) that have valid e-mail addresses. Theoretically, they could just send out a mass e-mail to every iCloud/iTunes Store account owner with a U.S. credit card on file.
It's not all that important that your friends and family don't know about. All that it says is they don't read business or technology news; the Apple Card has been covered multiple times by many publications including *ALL* of the major business periodicals (Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, etc.), not just Apple rumor sites. The Apple Card isn't available yet anyhow.
It's okay to have more than one credit card. In fact, the FICO score formula favors multiple lines of credit. They look at credit line history, age of credit, and credit utilization.
Having $4000 on a sole card with a $5000 credit limit is 80% utilization. Having the same amount spread between six cards with a total of $100,000 combined credit is 4% utilization.
And what does it matter? Well, credit scores are used for a lot of things, not just home loans and auto loans. That said, saving 0.25% on a 30 year mortgage is actually a pretty big deal. For a $600,000 30-yr. loan, the difference in interest between a 4% loan and a 3.75% loan is about $31,000.
These days insurers, employers, and landlords are looking more closely at credit scores. Let's say Person A and Person B inquire about renting an apartment. All other things equal, if Person A has a 575 credit score and Person B has a 805 credit score, who do you think the landlord will be more inclined to rent to?
And it's not just people who get rated for credit. Companies and governments get rated as well. Companies with poor credit scores have to pay much higher rates when they borrow money. There's an industry term for that: junk.
• https://pocketsense.com/responsible-fraudulent-withdrawals-checking-account-12496.html
But I could see myself using the Apple Card for most other things, especially the things that I put on the debit card today in order to save the 1% or 2%.
A late-2018 report indicated that Americans hold $423.8 billion in revolving credit card debt and $949 billion in total credit card debt. The average household owes $6721 in revolving debt. Anyone who is paying 18-24% on such money is out of their minds, but I suppose many feel no recourse and do it anyway, paying the minimum payment each month. That total credit card debt is small compared to other kinds of debt (mortgages: $9.24 trillion, auto loans: $1.28 trillion, student loans: $1.49 trillion), but it's still a big number.
I could save slightly more with having one shipped from an online store with no sales tax and some other promotion applied, but that’s not worth it to me since I have to deal with less customer service and then wait for supplies to become available. For new Macs this tends to be too long, especially for any atypical configuration.
I suspect that one big reason it is not a major problem is the banking system is so tied down that the transaction would be fairly easy for an investigator to track directly to a company or person. And the penalties are steep.
Serous question - For the people planning on getting the Apple Card, I'm curious why? What attracts you to the Apple Card and/or what benefits do you see that you don't already get with the cards in your wallet? Are there specific features, is it just because it's new and you support Apple? Is it because the card looks kinda cool? As I said earlier, personally it doesn't really give any benefits and I don't need another card so there's really no reason for me to get one but I'm curious about other's rationale.
The secondary usage case for me would be Apple Store/iTunes Store purchases (3% cash back), but not for big ticket items. I purchase the latter with a different card that provides A.) extended warranty coverage, B.) recent purchase protection, and C.) a cash back reward (albeit smaller). I don't purchase AppleCare, I'm okay with just getting an extra year of warranty coverage from the credit card issuer gratis.
I cannot foresee any instance where I would use the physical titanium Apple Card (1% cash back). It will end up in the binder with the other cards that don't typically live in my wallet.
My brokerage's credit card gives 2% cash back on all purchases regardless of transaction type (swipe, EMV, Apple Pay, card not present) but they collect foreign transaction fees. I expect to continue using this card for most domestic ordinary purchases (the main exception being restaurants -- I have a card that gives 3% back on those). I like that my brokerage's credit card automatically deposits my cash back rewards on a monthly basis. I know that a dollar in one account is the same 100 cents as a dollar in another account, but when it's in my brokerage account I am far more inclined to invest it rather than to spend it. When I do withdraw money from my brokerage account, I ask myself "What is your valid justification for doing this?"
Once I get my Apple Card, I will investigate more closely to see if I can have the Apple Card rewards automatically credited to my brokerage account. I wonder if Goldman Sachs will allow me to easily transfer these funds to a rival brokerage...
In summary, I would use the Apple Card sparingly in US domestic transactions from Apple, the little knick-knack or accessory since my iTunes Store account is funded with discounted iTunes Store gift cards or ones that one of my credit card issuers provide through their rewards program. I would use the Apple Card for foreign transactions that allow for NFC contactless payments. In some countries, that's like 95% of the transactions.
This is covered in the second section of the very first page.
Pay the entire amount due by the due date and you won't get charged interest. Just like any other freakin' credit card in the US. FOR DECADES.
If you don't understand what Goldman Sachs wrote in their cardholder customer agreement, you probably shouldn't be handling money, whether it's yours or someone else's.
Oh, absolutely. It needed a bit of tweaking to get the tenor just right, but I'm happy with it. It was pretty effortless, but thank you for your concern.
It wasn't anger, but there was some frustration at the continued propagation of erroneous information and outright stupid conclusions offered as fact.
Someone can say 'I like this because it's blue' or 'I don't like this because it's not blue'. The color may nave nothing at all to do with the primary purpose or functionality of an item in question. You like what you like and don't what you don't.
But one's personal preferences don't often if ever, change the intrinsic value of said item for others. To continually, and stupidly go on and on, deliberately or ignorantly condemning something without even a nod to objectivity, at best does a disservice to anybody know knowing any better. It calls into question the motivation of the offerer of FUD.
The Apple Card has some unique features (ie not found on/with other cards). I predict that in the not to distant future, other card issuers will adopt some of those features. And the accompanying app is a multi-faceted tool to encourage and help a user be a more responsible spender. I see that as unique in the credit world, where pages of terms and conditions boil down to 'you must make the minimum payment on time' where that payment, at least in the past, did little to pay off the principle.
I think this will be like the 'Phone- starting off slowly, and eventually influencing card features and policy significantly. The AC is not one card to rule them all. But then no card is. Unless you're very rich then the AMEX Black card might be that card. I dunno.