Absolutely agreed every company puts what’s going to make them the most money first so naturally Apple’s going to put its own apps at the top why are we arguing about this or trying to say they’re a bad company because it.
First of all comparing Google search with App Store results is not an equal comparison... App Store results represent apps that only run on Apple devices. Google search results should represent everything that’s available on the web - an open platform. If Google listed their services first on their Pixel devices - who cares! It’s their hardware. it comes down to... “You bought our hardware, here’s some other stuff you might like from us.” I don’t see any problem with that whatsoever. Whether it’s Apple, Samsung, Google or Microsoft. You purchase their hardware there’s bound to be some “freebies”. That’s a normal incentive most OEMs take part in.
Second, 90% of the apps Apple puts in the App Store are apps that come FREE with the purchase of Apple hardware. When someone buys an iPhone and they’re told it comes with free software - most people will search for that free software, so of course Apple’s apps may come up on top most of the time! Would everyone prefer Apple preload all that software instead? That would be extremely unfair to 3rd party developers. Instead Apple puts those apps on the App Store with the possibility that a user may discover and choose an alternative 3rd party app. That’s more than fair.
Finally... After all the hype in the media, when the Apple Card was finally released, Apple Wallet went to #1 !!! What a blatant anticompetitive move!!! /s Really!?
What’s next? Apple will be taken to task because they only allow their own apps on icloud.com!?
Of course Apple can do whatever it wants, because Apple owns the App Store.
However, don't start complaining if the EU will fine Apple because Apple is abusing its App Store monopoly. You just gave all the ammunition the EU needs.
Can we stop using “monopoly” to describe ownership? The issue is about being the owner and being able to take advantage of and abusing that fact. Monopoly does not apply when you own something... Microsoft does not have a monopoly over Windows... They own it. They have a monopoly in the PC Operating System market where Windows has about a 90% share of.
And I never said Apple can do whatever it wants, nor do I think they should. There’s no proof that Apple has been unfair in the sense that their apps have an advantage over 3rd party apps in the App Store. There’s certainly instances where their apps may have appeared at the top of the list AT TIMES, as do other 3rd party apps. But to say, that Apple ALWAYS favors their apps in searches is completely false.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Why? Because you use Excel? Few independent users -- the type who use the App Store do. It is mostly a commercial product due its high cost.
Who uses numbers? If anything people that want a free product are using Google Docs.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Why? Because you use Excel? Few independent users -- the type who use the App Store do. It is mostly a commercial product due its high cost.
Who uses numbers? If anything people that want a free product are using Google Docs.
To answer your question with 100% certainty - I use numbers.
So stop imposing your point of view on others.
P.S. My spouse dosn't even know how the Excel looks like.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Wrong! When you buy an iPhone and it says it comes with “Numbers” many people will search for it driving it up the list.
It does if you search for Numbers. If you search for spreadsheet Google Sheets comes up first, then Excel. Which I guess makes sense as I forgot there is no free version of Excel.
All the results may differ from what they were 30 days ago. At one point a few weeks back if you searched for "Music" the first 8 results were all Apple apps, with Spotify for example kinda buried down at #11 I think, tho that may not be 100% accurate.
In any event Apple has made a couple of changes since July besides the grouping by developer tendency which was claimed to be one reason for Apple apps surfacing so prominently.
If I worked in Apple public relations or communications I’d be telling Tim Cook Apple is starting to look reactionary, like they’re only doing things because they got caught or were outed by the media. Take this story for example. One gets the feeling Apple was alerted it was coming so they made changes because of it. And then of course the Siri changes that were announced after the Guardian published its story. Apple making changes after they got caught doing things that weren’t disclosed to users. It’s not a good look. Especially for a company that prides itself on being different/more ethical than every other tech company.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Why? Because you use Excel? Few independent users -- the type who use the App Store do. It is mostly a commercial product due its high cost.
Who uses numbers? If anything people that want a free product are using Google Docs.
I LOVE Numbers and pretty much use it exclusively. There are some instances where I'm forced to use Excel in the work environment, its painful, but I make it through. Is Numbers missing some features? Yes, it is. And for some users it'll never be acceptable until those features are included, but most of those features apply to a very small subset of spreadsheet users.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Why? Because you use Excel? Few independent users -- the type who use the App Store do. It is mostly a commercial product due its high cost.
Who uses numbers? If anything people that want a free product are using Google Docs.
I use two Apple apps... Numbers and Pages.
I do not have, and will never have, a Google account.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
Absolutely ditto. There are 4 grocery store chains in the overall mix we buy from for our household. Generally, no more than 2 on a weekend shopping trip to town. Each has something closely identified with their brand and offerings and that's what gets us in the door. I have no interest in anyone of those being my exclusive source...even if their management would prefer it so. At the same time, I expect to find their house brands and others closely associated with their style to be featured. Why make it more difficult?
"There's nothing about the way we run search in the App Store that's designed or intended to drive Apple's downloads of our own apps," said Schiller. "We'll present results based on what we think the user wants."
So why did they tweak the App Store search algorithms then? Saying we did nothing wrong but we changed our algorithms anyway makes it seem like they were doing something wrong and corrected it after being outed by the WSJ and NYT.
FTA: “Schiller and Cue indicate search has been working fine, but Apple wanted to handicap itself to aid other developers.”
And from the NYT piece: “Mr. Schiller and Mr. Cue said the algorithm had been working properly. They simply decided to handicap themselves to help other developers.”
In my opinion Apple should just add an “Apple” button at the top of the App Store that contains all software Apple offers. And when people buy an Apple device, Apple can direct them to that section of the store.
Then Apple should leave that software out of search results, but put a line somewhere stating, “If you’re looking for Apple software please go the Apple section.”
Problem solved.
That’s a terrible idea. The entire point of search is to provide relevant results. Hiding relevant Apple results hampers the user. How would they know what to pick in a dedicated Apple section, assuming they even go to it? That isn’t how search works anywhere.
"There's nothing about the way we run search in the App Store that's designed or intended to drive Apple's downloads of our own apps," said Schiller. "We'll present results based on what we think the user wants."
So why did they tweak the App Store search algorithms then? Saying we did nothing wrong but we changed our algorithms anyway makes it seem like they were doing something wrong and corrected it after being outed by the WSJ and NYT.
Did you read?
They tweaked the algorithm so that grouping results by “producer” excluded Apple’s apps, but apparently left others as is.
Yes, Apple handicapped themselves to give others more of a chance. It's really UNFAIR to Apple, but I get it. People like to bitch. I don't think some people will be happy unless Apple is NEVER listed at all in any search.
The issue is a little deeper than being discussed here. Solutions are not easy to come by, but it’s a general problem.
It reminded me a recent youtube video by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder who discusses this issue in the context of the general problems involving Facebook, citations in scientific journals, Google, etc.
Can’t wait for Apple to be forced to spin off the App Store as a separate business. We’ll all be so much more secure when any piece of crap app loaded with malware can be downloaded by unsuspecting iOS users. Oh and those third party app stores the permanently disgruntled pine for, they’ll be uber secure won’t they. (SARCASM X10)
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Bullshit. Depends on your criteria, most popular or most economical. Numbers is free, Excel requires a subscription or single license payment, and it ain’t exactly cheap either.
In my opinion Apple should just add an “Apple” button at the top of the App Store that contains all software Apple offers. And when people buy an Apple device, Apple can direct them to that section of the store.
Then Apple should leave that software out of search results, but put a line somewhere stating, “If you’re looking for Apple software please go the Apple section.”
Problem solved.
That’s a terrible idea. The entire point of search is to provide relevant results. Hiding relevant Apple results hampers the user. How would they know what to pick in a dedicated Apple section, assuming they even go to it? That isn’t how search works anywhere.
I know and feel the same way... but in the eyes of some of these people, that would solve the problem.
The fact is... anyone who visits the App Store is an Apple customer and user. So Apple favoring their apps is not really a big deal. Is it fair, depends on your point of view...
As someone who bought an iPhone... it comes with free software. The easier it is to find, the better.
As a user looking for software... I’d prefer they’re listed with highest reviews first, Apple or not.
As a developer... I want my app at the top of the list all the time!
And lastly, if it’s already installed on my device, I’d want it to appear at the top of the list ALWAYS. At the very least its a reminder that I have it. Apps can get buried in these screens sometimes.
"There's nothing about the way we run search in the App Store that's designed or intended to drive Apple's downloads of our own apps," said Schiller. "We'll present results based on what we think the user wants."
So why did they tweak the App Store search algorithms then? Saying we did nothing wrong but we changed our algorithms anyway makes it seem like they were doing something wrong and corrected it after being outed by the WSJ and NYT.
Did you read?
They tweaked the algorithm so that grouping results by “producer” excluded Apple’s apps, but apparently left others as is.
Yes, Apple handicapped themselves to give others more of a chance. It's really UNFAIR to Apple, but I get it. People like to bitch. I don't think some people will be happy unless Apple is NEVER listed at all in any search.
So? That seems right to me: If I am looking for an app -- say a spreadsheet program -- I will want to see what Apple has to offer more than anything else.
If someone is searching for a spreadsheet app the first one that should pop up is Excel.
Wrong! When you buy an iPhone and it says it comes with “Numbers” many people will search for it driving it up the list.
It does if you search for Numbers. If you search for spreadsheet Google Sheets comes up first, then Excel. Which I guess makes sense as I forgot there is no free version of Excel.
All the results may differ from what they were 30 days ago. At one point a few weeks back if you searched for "Music" the first 8 results were all Apple apps, with Spotify for example kinda buried down at #11 I think, tho that may not be 100% accurate.
In any event Apple has made a couple of changes since July besides the grouping by developer tendency which was claimed to be one reason for Apple apps surfacing so prominently.
If I worked in Apple public relations or communications I’d be telling Tim Cook Apple is starting to look reactionary, like they’re only doing things because they got caught or were outed by the media. Take this story for example. One gets the feeling Apple was alerted it was coming so they made changes because of it. And then of course the Siri changes that were announced after the Guardian published its story. Apple making changes after they got caught doing things that weren’t disclosed to users. It’s not a good look. Especially for a company that prides itself on being different/more ethical than every other tech company.
For you everything Apple does is either illegal, immoral, unethical, anti-competitive, anti-consumer, so your opinion is of little value to anyone except those who thrive on negativity.
"There's nothing about the way we run search in the App Store that's designed or intended to drive Apple's downloads of our own apps," said Schiller. "We'll present results based on what we think the user wants."
So why did they tweak the App Store search algorithms then? Saying we did nothing wrong but we changed our algorithms anyway makes it seem like they were doing something wrong and corrected it after being outed by the WSJ and NYT.
Did you read?
They tweaked the algorithm so that grouping results by “producer” excluded Apple’s apps, but apparently left others as is.
Yes, Apple handicapped themselves to give others more of a chance. It's really UNFAIR to Apple, but I get it. People like to bitch. I don't think some people will be happy unless Apple is NEVER listed at all in any search.
Depends... honestly... Everyone who searches the App Store is an Apple customer and user, first and foremost. It stands to reason a majority of people not in-the-know might very well search for Apple apps when they first get their devices. That would in fact sway results in Apple’s favor more often then not. The tweak Apple put in place might just be a handicap to get around that?
These articles are great when they only run with a single scenario - usually sensationalizing the negative.
Comments
Can we stop using “monopoly” to describe ownership? The issue is about being the owner and being able to take advantage of and abusing that fact. Monopoly does not apply when you own something... Microsoft does not have a monopoly over Windows... They own it. They have a monopoly in the PC Operating System market where Windows has about a 90% share of.
And I never said Apple can do whatever it wants, nor do I think they should. There’s no proof that Apple has been unfair in the sense that their apps have an advantage over 3rd party apps in the App Store. There’s certainly instances where their apps may have appeared at the top of the list AT TIMES, as do other 3rd party apps. But to say, that Apple ALWAYS favors their apps in searches is completely false.
If I worked in Apple public relations or communications I’d be telling Tim Cook Apple is starting to look reactionary, like they’re only doing things because they got caught or were outed by the media. Take this story for example. One gets the feeling Apple was alerted it was coming so they made changes because of it. And then of course the Siri changes that were announced after the Guardian published its story. Apple making changes after they got caught doing things that weren’t disclosed to users. It’s not a good look. Especially for a company that prides itself on being different/more ethical than every other tech company.
I use two Apple apps... Numbers and Pages.
I do not have, and will never have, a Google account.
And from the NYT piece: “Mr. Schiller and Mr. Cue said the algorithm had been working properly. They simply decided to handicap themselves to help other developers.”
Yeah a total waste, if you exclude the billions of dollars paid to developers. Uh huh.
That’s a terrible idea. The entire point of search is to provide relevant results. Hiding relevant Apple results hampers the user. How would they know what to pick in a dedicated Apple section, assuming they even go to it? That isn’t how search works anywhere.
It reminded me a recent youtube video by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder who discusses this issue in the context of the general problems involving Facebook, citations in scientific journals, Google, etc.
https://youtu.be/oDne7CBXRn0
I know and feel the same way... but in the eyes of some of these people, that would solve the problem.
The fact is... anyone who visits the App Store is an Apple customer and user. So Apple favoring their apps is not really a big deal. Is it fair, depends on your point of view...
As someone who bought an iPhone... it comes with free software. The easier it is to find, the better.
As a user looking for software... I’d prefer they’re listed with highest reviews first, Apple or not.
As a developer... I want my app at the top of the list all the time!
And lastly, if it’s already installed on my device, I’d want it to appear at the top of the list ALWAYS. At the very least its a reminder that I have it. Apps can get buried in these screens sometimes.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/09/technology/apple-app-store-competition.html
Depends... honestly... Everyone who searches the App Store is an Apple customer and user, first and foremost. It stands to reason a majority of people not in-the-know might very well search for Apple apps when they first get their devices. That would in fact sway results in Apple’s favor more often then not. The tweak Apple put in place might just be a handicap to get around that?
These articles are great when they only run with a single scenario - usually sensationalizing the negative.