Samsung launches Galaxy Fold with new materials, tweaked design

1235»

Comments

  • Reply 81 of 97
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims the facts. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Fixed that for you.
  • Reply 82 of 97
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    Wow I have explained why I think the current iPhone design is a failure several times already but you seem to cherry pick from my comments to find something to discredit my opinions. Here we go one more time. iPhone designer sucks because.... Xs weighs a ton (not literally but you get my drift). Xs has glass on the back for no reason other than to make it pretty and with no regards to how much slicker or slippery it is to hold. Don't tell me to buy a case, Apple should not sell a $1000 product that you carry around all day which needs an ugly silicon case to keep it from getting smashed when dropped from a cafe table. Easy to drop - difficult to pick up from a table due to it's rounded sides. Rounded sides with partially recessed buttons designed to look seamless and slick and impossible to located without actually looking directly at your phone. Bulky cameras keeps getting bulkier. iPhones no longer sit flat on a table, watch it wobble when someone walks by you. Repairs! look into what it cost to replace a crack glass back for the Xs, it's almost 3 times the cost of replacing the screen, a decorative element is almost 3 times more expensive to replace than the most important part of the iPhone (the screen). 
  • Reply 83 of 97
    alanh said:
    sflocal said:
    Let the self-destruction begin!

    I bet Huawei is not going to announce anything and play the wait and see approach in the even Samsung's phone starts falling apart again.
    Is this even English?
    "even" is meant to be "event"
  • Reply 84 of 97
    spice-boy said:
    It's easy to poke fun a Samsung for launching duds but at least they are trying to push things forward unlike Apple which uses the same iPhone 6 form to keep costs down and profits high. 
    Yeah! Just like all those keyboard manufacturers that use the same key arrangement as all their competitors...
    /s

    Sometimes things stay the same because they can't be improved. Sometimes people want familiarity more than the shocking new. Sometimes your first shot hits the bullseye and you don't need to shoot again.
  • Reply 85 of 97
    In a clear case of user error, some reviewers attempted to remove a protective screen layer thinking it was a screen protector, causing the sensitive flexible panel below to malfunction
    My. Left. Foot.

    This was a design error, not user error. You don't make an integral part of the device look like something disposable or removable.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    Wow I have explained why I think the current iPhone design is a failure several times already but you seem to cherry pick from my comments to find something to discredit my opinions. Here we go one more time. iPhone designer sucks because.... Xs weighs a ton (not literally but you get my drift). Xs has glass on the back for no reason other than to make it pretty and with no regards to how much slicker or slippery it is to hold. Don't tell me to buy a case, Apple should not sell a $1000 product that you carry around all day which needs an ugly silicon case to keep it from getting smashed when dropped from a cafe table. Easy to drop - difficult to pick up from a table due to it's rounded sides. Rounded sides with partially recessed buttons designed to look seamless and slick and impossible to located without actually looking directly at your phone. Bulky cameras keeps getting bulkier. iPhones no longer sit flat on a table, watch it wobble when someone walks by you. Repairs! look into what it cost to replace a crack glass back for the Xs, it's almost 3 times the cost of replacing the screen, a decorative element is almost 3 times more expensive to replace than the most important part of the iPhone (the screen). 
    Two points;

    You should find your way out of the Apple ecosystem as you detest it so much.

    Consider paragraphs.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 97
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    Wow I have explained why I think the current iPhone design is a failure several times already but you seem to cherry pick from my comments to find something to discredit my opinions. Here we go one more time. iPhone designer sucks because.... Xs weighs a ton (not literally but you get my drift). Xs has glass on the back for no reason other than to make it pretty and with no regards to how much slicker or slippery it is to hold. Don't tell me to buy a case, Apple should not sell a $1000 product that you carry around all day which needs an ugly silicon case to keep it from getting smashed when dropped from a cafe table. Easy to drop - difficult to pick up from a table due to it's rounded sides. Rounded sides with partially recessed buttons designed to look seamless and slick and impossible to located without actually looking directly at your phone. Bulky cameras keeps getting bulkier. iPhones no longer sit flat on a table, watch it wobble when someone walks by you. Repairs! look into what it cost to replace a crack glass back for the Xs, it's almost 3 times the cost of replacing the screen, a decorative element is almost 3 times more expensive to replace than the most important part of the iPhone (the screen). 
    Two points;

    You should find your way out of the Apple ecosystem as you detest it so much.

    Consider paragraphs.


    Why address my comments when you can deflect it with that old tired line "if you don't like it then leave it".

    New paragraph...

    When you can't criticize my comments other than point out my sentence spacing then you have nothing to say. 
    avon b7
  • Reply 88 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    Wow I have explained why I think the current iPhone design is a failure several times already but you seem to cherry pick from my comments to find something to discredit my opinions. Here we go one more time. iPhone designer sucks because.... Xs weighs a ton (not literally but you get my drift). Xs has glass on the back for no reason other than to make it pretty and with no regards to how much slicker or slippery it is to hold. Don't tell me to buy a case, Apple should not sell a $1000 product that you carry around all day which needs an ugly silicon case to keep it from getting smashed when dropped from a cafe table. Easy to drop - difficult to pick up from a table due to it's rounded sides. Rounded sides with partially recessed buttons designed to look seamless and slick and impossible to located without actually looking directly at your phone. Bulky cameras keeps getting bulkier. iPhones no longer sit flat on a table, watch it wobble when someone walks by you. Repairs! look into what it cost to replace a crack glass back for the Xs, it's almost 3 times the cost of replacing the screen, a decorative element is almost 3 times more expensive to replace than the most important part of the iPhone (the screen). 
    Two points;

    You should find your way out of the Apple ecosystem as you detest it so much.

    Consider paragraphs.


    Why address my comments when you can deflect it with that old tired line "if you don't like it then leave it".

    New paragraph...

    When you can't criticize my comments other than point out my sentence spacing then you have nothing to say. 
    Presumably, there is some feature of the iPhone external design that you do like and have left unstated, otherwise, why object to my advice to move to an Android OS device? It's obvious that Apple isn't building the iPhone to your taste, and won't.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 89 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Because what I said reflects reality as stated by Huawei executives.

    That's why I can support what I say with links to their quoted statements.

    Where are 'all' the problems you spoke about last time? You even claimed the Mate X was thicker than the fold.

    You are telling someone they are 'clearly wrong' without providing a shred of supporting documentation when you have already been given a raft of links proving otherwise.

    As for 'explaining away', that's what you tried to do with the claim that the Mate X was thicker than the Fold, eventually trying to justify the incorrect claim by saying it was thicker 'on average'.

    And 'yes indeed, hardware modifications' is quoting yourself out of context. You claimed that Huawei had delayed the release to make hardware modifications. That is wrong. The delay itself was the cause of those hardware modifications. As I mentioned in the other thread, another Mate X variant was on the
    cards for next year. With the original release slipping, they chose to upgrade the
     phone with some aspects from the coming phone (Kirin 990 included) which resulted in a slightly longer delay (November). There was little point releasing only a Kirin 980 Mate X in the same month that the Kirin 990 was released.
    Their execs more than hinted at an improved design. And there really isn’t a single valid reason for them to withdraw it otherwise. Your links aren’t useful, because you don’t seem to understand that companies aren’t always honest in what they say in situations like this.
    edited September 2019 AppleExposed
  • Reply 90 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims the facts. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Fixed that for you.
    If you had facts, I would have acknowledged that.
  • Reply 91 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member

    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    Wow I have explained why I think the current iPhone design is a failure several times already but you seem to cherry pick from my comments to find something to discredit my opinions. Here we go one more time. iPhone designer sucks because.... Xs weighs a ton (not literally but you get my drift). Xs has glass on the back for no reason other than to make it pretty and with no regards to how much slicker or slippery it is to hold. Don't tell me to buy a case, Apple should not sell a $1000 product that you carry around all day which needs an ugly silicon case to keep it from getting smashed when dropped from a cafe table. Easy to drop - difficult to pick up from a table due to it's rounded sides. Rounded sides with partially recessed buttons designed to look seamless and slick and impossible to located without actually looking directly at your phone. Bulky cameras keeps getting bulkier. iPhones no longer sit flat on a table, watch it wobble when someone walks by you. Repairs! look into what it cost to replace a crack glass back for the Xs, it's almost 3 times the cost of replacing the screen, a decorative element is almost 3 times more expensive to replace than the most important part of the iPhone (the screen). 
    The glass on the back of all newer phones is for the purpose of wireless charging. Surely you know that? Also most every phone these days requires a case for one reason of the other. It’s not just Apple’s phones. Cameras rent “bulky”. Yes, they are a few mms deeper, which is needed. The deeper the camera is, the better the lens can be.

    so you don’t like the more comfortable rounded sides. Perhaps you would like Apple to have all the buttons stick out a quarter of an inch so they would be easier to push, or maybe a round phone. That would be different. Oh, how about a phone shaped like a rectangular sponge, where your thumb and your forefinger squeeze the sides in so it won’t fall out of your hand? Then we could have a svelt shaped hourglass screen. That would be different too. Or, or...well you can think of something else, I’m sure, that would be better, right?

    boy, oh boy, do you even look at other phones? Your comments condemn practically every other higher end phone in the market. Do you realize that?
    edited September 2019
  • Reply 92 of 97
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    A video with Huawei's competing foldable display. The reviewer is pretty upbeat about it.

  • Reply 93 of 97
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Because what I said reflects reality as stated by Huawei executives.

    That's why I can support what I say with links to their quoted statements.

    Where are 'all' the problems you spoke about last time? You even claimed the Mate X was thicker than the fold.

    You are telling someone they are 'clearly wrong' without providing a shred of supporting documentation when you have already been given a raft of links proving otherwise.

    As for 'explaining away', that's what you tried to do with the claim that the Mate X was thicker than the Fold, eventually trying to justify the incorrect claim by saying it was thicker 'on average'.

    And 'yes indeed, hardware modifications' is quoting yourself out of context. You claimed that Huawei had delayed the release to make hardware modifications. That is wrong. The delay itself was the cause of those hardware modifications. As I mentioned in the other thread, another Mate X variant was on the
    cards for next year. With the original release slipping, they chose to upgrade the
     phone with some aspects from the coming phone (Kirin 990 included) which resulted in a slightly longer delay (November). There was little point releasing only a Kirin 980 Mate X in the same month that the Kirin 990 was released.
    Their execs more than hinted at an improved design. And there really isn’t a single valid reason for them to withdraw it otherwise. Your links aren’t useful, because you don’t seem to understand that companies aren’t always honest in what they say in situations like this.
    Of course there are valid reasons! They have been given to you, and for what it is worth, they weren't 'hinted at', they were detailed and from the relevant executives. Quoted straight from the horse's mouth.

    All my links have been useful because they directly quote the people that actually know. Whether you choose to believe them is your problem. I'm stating facts exactly as they have been presented.

    You have provided literally nothing to support your claims while simultaneously attempting to deflect away from scrutiny by claiming that the supporting links aren't 'useful' (in spite of directly quoting the relevant executives) or by making hazy claims ('companies aren't always honest').

    That begs the question. Have the quoted executives been honest or not and how could you possibly know?

    Of course you can't and there lies your problem.


    edited September 2019
  • Reply 94 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Because what I said reflects reality as stated by Huawei executives.

    That's why I can support what I say with links to their quoted statements.

    Where are 'all' the problems you spoke about last time? You even claimed the Mate X was thicker than the fold.

    You are telling someone they are 'clearly wrong' without providing a shred of supporting documentation when you have already been given a raft of links proving otherwise.

    As for 'explaining away', that's what you tried to do with the claim that the Mate X was thicker than the Fold, eventually trying to justify the incorrect claim by saying it was thicker 'on average'.

    And 'yes indeed, hardware modifications' is quoting yourself out of context. You claimed that Huawei had delayed the release to make hardware modifications. That is wrong. The delay itself was the cause of those hardware modifications. As I mentioned in the other thread, another Mate X variant was on the
    cards for next year. With the original release slipping, they chose to upgrade the
     phone with some aspects from the coming phone (Kirin 990 included) which resulted in a slightly longer delay (November). There was little point releasing only a Kirin 980 Mate X in the same month that the Kirin 990 was released.
    Their execs more than hinted at an improved design. And there really isn’t a single valid reason for them to withdraw it otherwise. Your links aren’t useful, because you don’t seem to understand that companies aren’t always honest in what they say in situations like this.
    Of course there are valid reasons! They have been given to you, and for what it is worth, they weren't 'hinted at', they were detailed and from the relevant executives. Quoted straight from the horse's mouth.

    All my links have been useful because they directly quote the people that actually know. Whether you choose to believe them is your problem. I'm stating facts exactly as they have been presented.

    You have provided literally nothing to support your claims while simultaneously attempting to deflect away from scrutiny by claiming that the supporting links aren't 'useful' (in spite of directly quoting the relevant executives) or by making hazy claims ('companies aren't always honest').

    That begs the question. Have the quoted executives been honest or not and how could you possibly know?

    Of course you can't and there lies your problem.


    Since Huawei has lied about documented spying and attempts to steal secrets from Apple, and others, to say that their executives are always honest is naive, at the least.

    im not the only one who says they reason undoubtably has to do with design;

    https://gizmodo.com/the-curse-of-the-folding-phone-continues-as-huaweis-mat-1837266728

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardwindsoreurope/2019/04/23/why-huaweis-folding-phone-may-also-be-delayed-or-even-cancelled/#644e8f6a6665

    there are others, but this is enough. It seems no one believes the story you’re insisting on.
    edited September 2019 AppleExposed
  • Reply 95 of 97
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.



    BWAHAHAHAHAA!!

    Gotta love the bias treatment knockoffs get.

    ALL Apple 1st gen inventions are done right and are finished from iPhone and iPad to Apple Watch and AirPods and they STILL get sh** on
  • Reply 96 of 97
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Because what I said reflects reality as stated by Huawei executives.

    That's why I can support what I say with links to their quoted statements.

    Where are 'all' the problems you spoke about last time? You even claimed the Mate X was thicker than the fold.

    You are telling someone they are 'clearly wrong' without providing a shred of supporting documentation when you have already been given a raft of links proving otherwise.

    As for 'explaining away', that's what you tried to do with the claim that the Mate X was thicker than the Fold, eventually trying to justify the incorrect claim by saying it was thicker 'on average'.

    And 'yes indeed, hardware modifications' is quoting yourself out of context. You claimed that Huawei had delayed the release to make hardware modifications. That is wrong. The delay itself was the cause of those hardware modifications. As I mentioned in the other thread, another Mate X variant was on the
    cards for next year. With the original release slipping, they chose to upgrade the
     phone with some aspects from the coming phone (Kirin 990 included) which resulted in a slightly longer delay (November). There was little point releasing only a Kirin 980 Mate X in the same month that the Kirin 990 was released.
    Their execs more than hinted at an improved design. And there really isn’t a single valid reason for them to withdraw it otherwise. Your links aren’t useful, because you don’t seem to understand that companies aren’t always honest in what they say in situations like this.
    Of course there are valid reasons! They have been given to you, and for what it is worth, they weren't 'hinted at', they were detailed and from the relevant executives. Quoted straight from the horse's mouth.

    All my links have been useful because they directly quote the people that actually know. Whether you choose to believe them is your problem. I'm stating facts exactly as they have been presented.

    You have provided literally nothing to support your claims while simultaneously attempting to deflect away from scrutiny by claiming that the supporting links aren't 'useful' (in spite of directly quoting the relevant executives) or by making hazy claims ('companies aren't always honest').

    That begs the question. Have the quoted executives been honest or not and how could you possibly know?

    Of course you can't and there lies your problem.


    Since Huawei has lied about documented spying and attempts to steal secrets from Apple, and others, to say that their executives are always honest is naive, at the least.

    im not the only one who says they reason undoubtably has to do with design;

    https://gizmodo.com/the-curse-of-the-folding-phone-continues-as-huaweis-mat-1837266728

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardwindsoreurope/2019/04/23/why-huaweis-folding-phone-may-also-be-delayed-or-even-cancelled/#644e8f6a6665

    there are others, but this is enough. It seems no one believes the story you’re insisting on.
    Gizmodo:

    "After the debacle with Samsung’s Galaxy Fold, which showed signs of easy damage and other technical problems after ending up in the hands of reviewers, Huawei decided to follow suit and delay the Mate X’s launch to ensure that its own hardware wasn’t as fragile and could survive the day to day abuse that most smartphones have to endure."

    Surely you noticed that he backed that claim up with absolutely nothing. That couldn't have escaped you. In fact, it is exactly what you did. Draw a conclusion with nothing to support it.

    If my qualm with what you are saying is that you based it on your own imagination and failed to take into account what was actually said by the people that matter, why on earth are you pointing me to an article that is doing exactly the same?

    Forbes:

    This article doesn't even mention the Huawei delay. It is a piece on the design choices. Something else entirely. It was also written before the phone was even delayed! On top of that, the logic behind that piece is amazingly poor. Incredibly so.



    edited September 2019
  • Reply 97 of 97
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.



    BWAHAHAHAHAA!!

    Gotta love the bias treatment knockoffs get.

    ALL Apple 1st gen inventions are done right and are finished from iPhone and iPad to Apple Watch and AirPods and they STILL get sh** on
    What are saying?

    Neither folding phone has even reached the market yet. First gen or not they could get shit on all the same but why not wait for them to come to market first?
Sign In or Register to comment.