Confusion reigns over iPhone 11 Pro RAM, benchmarking tests

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 39

    melgross said:

    rkla said:
    mjtomlin said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera instead one extra wide and one tele photo ?

    Although he was referring to the dual camera system on the iPhone 11, John Gruber from Darirng Fireball mentions...
    Fundamentally it’s a bet on the power of computational photography — it’s easier to zoom in digitally than it is to compute a wider field of view.


    But as was also mentioned on stage... that extra wide lens can be used in really tight shots, “When there’s no room to back up.”

    It’s not harder to compute a wider field of view, its impossible. If the lens can’t see grandma outside the frame, it can’t compute her. Yes you can take a panorama but that’s a different action than pressing the shutter button. It is most likely for 3 reasons 1) people take group shots and can’t back up enough, so you can get shots you wouldn’t otherwise get. 2) more useful for AR applications 3) the ultra wide doesn’t use OIS so prob a cheaper than adding telephoto camera package which does
    Exactly. Sometimes Gruber gets things confused. Also the ultra wide uses a 5 element lens rather than a 6 as the others do. At one point I think Apple went to a 7 element lens for the normal camera. But it could be a more advanced design allowing fewer elements using better plastic and glass. Usually ultra wide lenses have a lot of glass. But really wide lenses don’t need OIS as much as the others do.
    When Gruber says “it’s easier to zoom than compute a wider field of view” he isn’t wrong. Of course he knows you can’t compute what you can’t see. He’s being cheeky, while remaining correct. 
    GeorgeBMacnetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 39

    goofy1958 said:
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Maybe because the amount of RAM in a phone does not really matter to anyone but spec junkies that like to claim that a phone with 8GB of RAM is better than a phone with 4 or 6GB of RAM, which is patently false.  The amount of RAM in a MacBook Pro IS needed depending on what you are going to use it for.
    It’s this, of course. They don’t believe it’s a meaningful spec to the end user, unlike storage space to put things. Storage is simple, more is more. Not so with RAM when comparing to crummier knockoffs. 
    netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 39
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    The trouble is:  People would try to compare it to Android phones -- which would be misleading because Android, being less efficient than iOS requires more and bigger hardware to produce the same result.

    Apple faced a similar problem a couple decades ago when they were using RISC based processors which produced the same amount of work at half clock speed of other processors.
    netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member
    mjtomlin said:
    rkla said:
    mjtomlin said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera instead one extra wide and one tele photo ?

    Although he was referring to the dual camera system on the iPhone 11, John Gruber from Darirng Fireball mentions...
    Fundamentally it’s a bet on the power of computational photography — it’s easier to zoom in digitally than it is to compute a wider field of view.


    But as was also mentioned on stage... that extra wide lens can be used in really tight shots, “When there’s no room to back up.”

    It’s not harder to compute a wider field of view, its impossible. If the lens can’t see grandma outside the frame, it can’t compute her. Yes you can take a panorama but that’s a different action than pressing the shutter button. It is most likely for 3 reasons 1) people take group shots and can’t back up enough, so you can get shots you wouldn’t otherwise get. 2) more useful for AR applications 3) the ultra wide doesn’t use OIS so prob a cheaper than adding telephoto camera package which does

    I'm sure that's what he was trying to infer. However, a camera could pick up data "outside" a frame simply by grabbing data as a camera moves around before and after taking a shot, thus giving you the ability to "zoom out" a bit if needed. Would be really handy when rotating to horizontally align images.
    That would be very fishy. It would be unreliable too. I don’t know it would be accomplished. You would have to deliberately move the camera around just before you took the shot. Nah.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member

    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Well, really, we don’t NEED that info. We WANT that info, and most people don’t care at all. As long as it works properly, most people are happy.
    netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member

    goofy1958 said:
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Maybe because the amount of RAM in a phone does not really matter to anyone but spec junkies that like to claim that a phone with 8GB of RAM is better than a phone with 4 or 6GB of RAM, which is patently false.  The amount of RAM in a MacBook Pro IS needed depending on what you are going to use it for.
    Android does need a lot more RAM than iOS does, so they make a big deal about how much RAM Android phones have. If you have 50 apps showing on an iPhone “open apps” listing, they aren’t really open, and they don’t take any RAM or processing power. But in Android, they do. So they need more RAM. Even a half dozen open apps can suck RAM dry and kill a large percentage of CPU cycles.
    edited September 12 GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 39
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera on back of iPhone 11 instead one wide and one telephoto ? last years iPhone XS had one wide and one telephoto.
    This was the only disappointment for me in the whole show. I don’t need an even wider lens. I already work to get close enough to what I’m  shooting. I really wanted the 11 to have the same set up as the XS did last year. Oh well
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 39
    DAalseth said:
    So, actual Geekbench testing said 4GB. Unnamed, unverified sources of unknown reliability say 6Gb. Uh, yeah I'd go with the actual measurement until I get more data. I suppose it is possible that the base version has 4 and ones with more RAM, or the Max version has 6. But the only way to know for sure is an actual measurement, not rumours.
    Except that Geekbench isn't a "measurement" of RAM size.
  • Reply 29 of 39
    melgross said:

    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera on back of iPhone 11 instead one wide and one telephoto ? last years iPhone XS had one wide and one telephoto.
    It seems to be a trend. Other manufacturers are going the ultra wide route. It seems to be popular.
    It's because it's more useful.
  • Reply 30 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member
    DAalseth said:
    DAalseth said:
    So, actual Geekbench testing said 4GB. Unnamed, unverified sources of unknown reliability say 6Gb. Uh, yeah I'd go with the actual measurement until I get more data. I suppose it is possible that the base version has 4 and ones with more RAM, or the Max version has 6. But the only way to know for sure is an actual measurement, not rumours.
    Because you don't know their names does not mean that don't have names or that they are not authoritative sources.
    On the contrary, I trust a source more if they are willing to go on the record. This could be anyone from the CEO of Foxconn to some shipping clerk who saw a 6 on a box and assumed it meant this, to some random person who made stuff up. Unless you know WHO the source it, it is just hearsay.
    They can’t always do that because often they obtain the device, or access to the device, shall we say, less than legally?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 39

    goofy1958 said:
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Maybe because the amount of RAM in a phone does not really matter to anyone but spec junkies that like to claim that a phone with 8GB of RAM is better than a phone with 4 or 6GB of RAM, which is patently false.  The amount of RAM in a MacBook Pro IS needed depending on what you are going to use it for.
    It’s this, of course. They don’t believe it’s a meaningful spec to the end user, unlike storage space to put things. Storage is simple, more is more. Not so with RAM when comparing to crummier knockoffs. 
    Keep in mind that Android is horrible at memory management.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member

    melgross said:

    rkla said:
    mjtomlin said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera instead one extra wide and one tele photo ?

    Although he was referring to the dual camera system on the iPhone 11, John Gruber from Darirng Fireball mentions...
    Fundamentally it’s a bet on the power of computational photography — it’s easier to zoom in digitally than it is to compute a wider field of view.


    But as was also mentioned on stage... that extra wide lens can be used in really tight shots, “When there’s no room to back up.”

    It’s not harder to compute a wider field of view, its impossible. If the lens can’t see grandma outside the frame, it can’t compute her. Yes you can take a panorama but that’s a different action than pressing the shutter button. It is most likely for 3 reasons 1) people take group shots and can’t back up enough, so you can get shots you wouldn’t otherwise get. 2) more useful for AR applications 3) the ultra wide doesn’t use OIS so prob a cheaper than adding telephoto camera package which does
    Exactly. Sometimes Gruber gets things confused. Also the ultra wide uses a 5 element lens rather than a 6 as the others do. At one point I think Apple went to a 7 element lens for the normal camera. But it could be a more advanced design allowing fewer elements using better plastic and glass. Usually ultra wide lenses have a lot of glass. But really wide lenses don’t need OIS as much as the others do.
    When Gruber says “it’s easier to zoom than compute a wider field of view” he isn’t wrong. Of course he knows you can’t compute what you can’t see. He’s being cheeky, while remaining correct. 
    Taken in the context of computing a wider view than the camera is capable of, then no, he would be wrong.
  • Reply 33 of 39
    melgross said:

    goofy1958 said:
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Maybe because the amount of RAM in a phone does not really matter to anyone but spec junkies that like to claim that a phone with 8GB of RAM is better than a phone with 4 or 6GB of RAM, which is patently false.  The amount of RAM in a MacBook Pro IS needed depending on what you are going to use it for.
    Android does need a lot more RAM than iOS does, so they make a big deal about how much RAM Android phones have. If you have 50 apps showing on an iPhone “open apps” listing, they aren’t really open, and they don’t take any RAM or processing power. But in Android, they do. So they need more RAM. Even a half dozen open apps can suck RAM dry and kill a large percentage of CPU cycles.
    I remember one time I saw some programmer trashed Android for how horrible the code is, basically he said it didn't even consider to optimize RAM usage.  Not a programmer myself, but feels like true especially back then.  12GiB is crazy when 8GiB is still fluent for many lower-end PCs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member

    melgross said:

    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera on back of iPhone 11 instead one wide and one telephoto ? last years iPhone XS had one wide and one telephoto.
    It seems to be a trend. Other manufacturers are going the ultra wide route. It seems to be popular.
    It's because it's more useful.
    I won’t argue that. Times change.
  • Reply 35 of 39
    melgross said:

    melgross said:

    rkla said:
    mjtomlin said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera instead one extra wide and one tele photo ?

    Although he was referring to the dual camera system on the iPhone 11, John Gruber from Darirng Fireball mentions...
    Fundamentally it’s a bet on the power of computational photography — it’s easier to zoom in digitally than it is to compute a wider field of view.


    But as was also mentioned on stage... that extra wide lens can be used in really tight shots, “When there’s no room to back up.”

    It’s not harder to compute a wider field of view, its impossible. If the lens can’t see grandma outside the frame, it can’t compute her. Yes you can take a panorama but that’s a different action than pressing the shutter button. It is most likely for 3 reasons 1) people take group shots and can’t back up enough, so you can get shots you wouldn’t otherwise get. 2) more useful for AR applications 3) the ultra wide doesn’t use OIS so prob a cheaper than adding telephoto camera package which does
    Exactly. Sometimes Gruber gets things confused. Also the ultra wide uses a 5 element lens rather than a 6 as the others do. At one point I think Apple went to a 7 element lens for the normal camera. But it could be a more advanced design allowing fewer elements using better plastic and glass. Usually ultra wide lenses have a lot of glass. But really wide lenses don’t need OIS as much as the others do.
    When Gruber says “it’s easier to zoom than compute a wider field of view” he isn’t wrong. Of course he knows you can’t compute what you can’t see. He’s being cheeky, while remaining correct. 
    Taken in the context of computing a wider view than the camera is capable of, then no, he would be wrong.
    Nope, he’s right — it’s easier to do digital zoom than to compute a wider view than the camera is capable of, because the latter is impossible. So of course the former is easier. That’s the cheeky part.

    Are you really struggling with this? You dudes need to interact with more humans. 
    edited September 13
  • Reply 36 of 39
    DAalseth said:
    So, actual Geekbench testing said 4GB. Unnamed, unverified sources of unknown reliability say 6Gb. Uh, yeah I'd go with the actual measurement until I get more data. I suppose it is possible that the base version has 4 and ones with more RAM, or the Max version has 6. But the only way to know for sure is an actual measurement, not rumours.
    Except that Geekbench isn't a "measurement" of RAM size.
    They do report the size of it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 39
    goofy1958 said:
    Apple really should disclose this info in their tech specs section. Not sure why they do not. Should be no secret. Processor,ram and storage space should all be disclosed when people click on tech specs. This should not be a hidden secret that people have to search for. Imagine having to search for this info when buying a Mcbook Pro :o
    Maybe because the amount of RAM in a phone does not really matter to anyone but spec junkies that like to claim that a phone with 8GB of RAM is better than a phone with 4 or 6GB of RAM, which is patently false.  The amount of RAM in a MacBook Pro IS needed depending on what you are going to use it for.
    I think it’s because Apple used to skimp out on RAM and didn’t want to call attention to it. I remember having the first iPad Air. The memory management was awful. Safari tabs would constantly re-load. People who own an iPhone 6 (still with 1GB RAM) has similar issues with apps refreshing all the time.
    That's not "horrible memory management" but rather the hardware limit.  Android, on the other hand, does have a "horrible management" to begin with.
    thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member
    melgross said:

    melgross said:

    rkla said:
    mjtomlin said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does anyone know why Apple choose 2 wide angle back camera instead one extra wide and one tele photo ?

    Although he was referring to the dual camera system on the iPhone 11, John Gruber from Darirng Fireball mentions...
    Fundamentally it’s a bet on the power of computational photography — it’s easier to zoom in digitally than it is to compute a wider field of view.


    But as was also mentioned on stage... that extra wide lens can be used in really tight shots, “When there’s no room to back up.”

    It’s not harder to compute a wider field of view, its impossible. If the lens can’t see grandma outside the frame, it can’t compute her. Yes you can take a panorama but that’s a different action than pressing the shutter button. It is most likely for 3 reasons 1) people take group shots and can’t back up enough, so you can get shots you wouldn’t otherwise get. 2) more useful for AR applications 3) the ultra wide doesn’t use OIS so prob a cheaper than adding telephoto camera package which does
    Exactly. Sometimes Gruber gets things confused. Also the ultra wide uses a 5 element lens rather than a 6 as the others do. At one point I think Apple went to a 7 element lens for the normal camera. But it could be a more advanced design allowing fewer elements using better plastic and glass. Usually ultra wide lenses have a lot of glass. But really wide lenses don’t need OIS as much as the others do.
    When Gruber says “it’s easier to zoom than compute a wider field of view” he isn’t wrong. Of course he knows you can’t compute what you can’t see. He’s being cheeky, while remaining correct. 
    Taken in the context of computing a wider view than the camera is capable of, then no, he would be wrong.
    Nope, he’s right — it’s easier to do digital zoom than to compute a wider view than the camera is capable of, because the latter is impossible. So of course the former is easier. That’s the cheeky part.

    Are you really struggling with this? You dudes need to interact with more humans. 
    Are you human? You don’t seem like one. Maybe it’s because you have problems in understanding what we’re saying.

    of course it’s easier to do a digital zoom—if the widest lens you have is the widest portion of the zoom. No one is arguing that. No one is arguing that you can’t do a wider zoom that the lens itself can do, and that’s exactly what we’re saying. We’re also saying it, tongue in cheek, because I’ve read things that Gruber says that are wacky, that you can’t zoom wider than the lens is capable of.

    what’s your problem here?
  • Reply 39 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,979member

    DuhSesame said:
    DAalseth said:
    So, actual Geekbench testing said 4GB. Unnamed, unverified sources of unknown reliability say 6Gb. Uh, yeah I'd go with the actual measurement until I get more data. I suppose it is possible that the base version has 4 and ones with more RAM, or the Max version has 6. But the only way to know for sure is an actual measurement, not rumours.
    Except that Geekbench isn't a "measurement" of RAM size.
    They do report the size of it.
    Yes, it does.
Sign In or Register to comment.