iPhone 11 Pro review - Buy for the better camera, stay for the battery life

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 90
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,967administrator
    Mike Wuerthele said: Sure, I agree they exist. I've even used a few.
    Do you think Dolby is conning people with the HRTF explanation of how mobile Atmos works? 
    Con is a little strong. They are welcome to market their products any way that they want.
  • Reply 22 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,290member
    lkrupp said:
    avon b7 said:

    "No, there is no 5G on the iPhone 11 Pro family at all, and there shouldn't be this year. Standards are still shaking out, carriers are still getting their act together. What works this year is probably not going to be even close to a full array of what 5G will support in the future."

    If we take an educated guess from the rumours, it is almost certain that Apple was aiming for a 5G modem this year but intel didn't deliver.

    Releasing a 5G modem next year will not change the 'standards are still shaking out' claim. The relevant standards for current 5G modems were finalised at the end of 2017. Commercial deployment is now a reality and Apple probably wanted to be part of that reality.

    Long before Apple ships anything with a 5G modem, Huawei alone will have shipped 2,000,000 5G base stations worldwide. Add in Ericsson and Nokia, plus Qualcomm and Samsung and it is clear that Apple is at both a marketing and technological disadvantage. 5G will roll out far faster than previous generations.

    5G coverage will vastly improve through 2020. China is accelerating an already accelerated 5G roll out. Korea has massive plans. Europe too. The devil is in the details but Release 15 is finalised. The only changes to that will be stabilisation efforts. NSA is what current modems (with the exception of Huawei which claims SA support too) are using and that is finalised and real.

    Apart from the brute speed angle, things like 4GLTE/5G (NSA/SA)  network slicing will also bring big advantages to everyone. Apple is obviously going to find it harder to compete in even a 5G NSA world without a product and when it does have a 5G product, the standard will still be 'shaking out'. I think it matters today from a purchasing perspective and no doubt a fair amount of potential buyers will put purchases off to wait for it along with the rumoured body redesign. Users looking for a phone to take them through a three or four year cycle might be even more reluctant to upgrade now.

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2018/03/21/first-5g-standard-complete-so-whats-next
    But somehow they keep succeeding and the new, substandard iPhones are selling quite well it would appear. That must really piss you off big time. Apple, slowly going out of business for over forty years now.
    Why would it piss me off? I want better, cheaper iPhones! I want competition.

    I switched to Android a few years ago because I was literally priced out of the iPhone market. I got far more than I imagined and haven't looked back. I'm far more informed as a result. Now, instead of having to factor in two iPhones I only need one (for my wife) bur even she understood that for what was on offer for the price (21% V.A.T included) last year, it simply wasn't worth it. The improved trade in offer plus reimbursement of a battery upgrade was the only reason we upgraded.

    She has had more glitches with the XR than any previous iPhone (normally solved via a restart) but it is irritating for her.

    Now, having the two platforms side by side really allows us to evaluate their pros and cons and I am crossing my fingers that the Open Sourced HarmonyOS takes off because (on paper at least), it could mean a vast reduction in the importance (or lack of) of 'platforms' and interoperability.

    Having de-coupled, virtualised secure hardware working together as 'one', is a goal that could benefit users in a big way and by extension, hardware vendors.

    The foundation is being laid today. We'll see what comes tomorrow but everyone (Apple included) could benefit.
    Carnagemuthuk_vanalingamchemengin1
  • Reply 23 of 90
    I'll pass. They should have never have eliminated the floppy drive from iPhones. Now they're unusable. 

     >:) 
    lkruppcapt. obviouswilliamlondontmayStrangeDayshammeroftruthmatrix077watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 90
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 25 of 90
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 26 of 90
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,979member
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    Massive anecdotal evidence accumulated since the iPhone X is that users stop focussing on the notch in hours, if not a few days. It isn't an issue for any for a small minority of users. The "price" is a decided UI tradeoff, that has benefits over a wide forehead on the iPhone.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 90
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,979member

    avon b7 said:
    lkrupp said:
    avon b7 said:

    "No, there is no 5G on the iPhone 11 Pro family at all, and there shouldn't be this year. Standards are still shaking out, carriers are still getting their act together. What works this year is probably not going to be even close to a full array of what 5G will support in the future."

    If we take an educated guess from the rumours, it is almost certain that Apple was aiming for a 5G modem this year but intel didn't deliver.

    Releasing a 5G modem next year will not change the 'standards are still shaking out' claim. The relevant standards for current 5G modems were finalised at the end of 2017. Commercial deployment is now a reality and Apple probably wanted to be part of that reality.

    Long before Apple ships anything with a 5G modem, Huawei alone will have shipped 2,000,000 5G base stations worldwide. Add in Ericsson and Nokia, plus Qualcomm and Samsung and it is clear that Apple is at both a marketing and technological disadvantage. 5G will roll out far faster than previous generations.

    5G coverage will vastly improve through 2020. China is accelerating an already accelerated 5G roll out. Korea has massive plans. Europe too. The devil is in the details but Release 15 is finalised. The only changes to that will be stabilisation efforts. NSA is what current modems (with the exception of Huawei which claims SA support too) are using and that is finalised and real.

    Apart from the brute speed angle, things like 4GLTE/5G (NSA/SA)  network slicing will also bring big advantages to everyone. Apple is obviously going to find it harder to compete in even a 5G NSA world without a product and when it does have a 5G product, the standard will still be 'shaking out'. I think it matters today from a purchasing perspective and no doubt a fair amount of potential buyers will put purchases off to wait for it along with the rumoured body redesign. Users looking for a phone to take them through a three or four year cycle might be even more reluctant to upgrade now.

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2018/03/21/first-5g-standard-complete-so-whats-next
    But somehow they keep succeeding and the new, substandard iPhones are selling quite well it would appear. That must really piss you off big time. Apple, slowly going out of business for over forty years now.
    Why would it piss me off? I want better, cheaper iPhones! I want competition.

    I switched to Android a few years ago because I was literally priced out of the iPhone market. I got far more than I imagined and haven't looked back. I'm far more informed as a result. Now, instead of having to factor in two iPhones I only need one (for my wife) bur even she understood that for what was on offer for the price (21% V.A.T included) last year, it simply wasn't worth it. The improved trade in offer plus reimbursement of a battery upgrade was the only reason we upgraded.

    She has had more glitches with the XR than any previous iPhone (normally solved via a restart) but it is irritating for her.

    Now, having the two platforms side by side really allows us to evaluate their pros and cons and I am crossing my fingers that the Open Sourced HarmonyOS takes off because (on paper at least), it could mean a vast reduction in the importance (or lack of) of 'platforms' and interoperability.

    Having de-coupled, virtualised secure hardware working together as 'one', is a goal that could benefit users in a big way and by extension, hardware vendors.

    The foundation is being laid today. We'll see what comes tomorrow but everyone (Apple included) could benefit.
    I can't wait for the day that you and your wife fully abandon Apple, but you would still be here anyway, hawking Huawei.
    edited September 21 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,290member
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    I'm slowly coming round to the conclusion that the notch hasn't aged well from a design perspective.

    At the time it was a necessary compromise for the objectives at hand. All notches were, but two years later, the exact same design with basically no improvement is beginning to look 'clunky' when compared to alternative options.

    Don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with them from the get go and my current phone has one. For me it is not a problem at all, but times change.

    We now have some spectacular full screen (or almost full screen) options on the market and choice in how to get them (sliders, pop-ups, hole punches).

    The main reason for Apple's notch was FaceID (a simple biometric) and that hasn't really changed to this date. They haven't really moved forward with it in other ways either. In fact, the hardware is basically the same. I'm a big fan of rear mounted fingerprint sensors but since the iPhone X, in-screen biometric options have come a long way. They are performing well.

    Two years later you look at the iPhone 11 Pro and the bezels and notch look bigger than they should be when others are doing more in less space or eliminating notches altogether.

    I'm not sure why reducing the notch space hasn't been tackled on the new iPhones.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 90
    avon b7 said:
    I'm slowly coming round to the conclusion that the notch hasn't aged well from a design perspective.

    I still have a 7+. I'm still not upgrading this year.

    That said, When I looked at these new devices I didn't even register that they had a notch. Honestly.

    So, in my eyes, it has aged well. My conclusion is that we each see what we want to see. You want to see a problem because it's Apple, so you focus in the notch, amongst other things.

    And, before you ask, I'm not upgrading because there's no need to. My 3 year old phone still runs just fine. I used to own Android devices, from the Incredible, the Samsing S3, HTC M8 and finally the Nexus 6. Non lasted more than 2 years (the 6 only 12 months) before they needed replacement.

    Yup, my very first Apple smartphone has ticked every box for me. Perhaps next year I'll bite - but I can promise you one thing, the notch is the absolute least of my concerns.

    macplusplustmaymatrix077jmc54watto_cobraalexonline
  • Reply 30 of 90
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,821member
    Mike Wuerthele said: Sure, I agree they exist. I've even used a few.
    Do you think Dolby is conning people with the HRTF explanation of how mobile Atmos works? 
    Con is a little strong. They are welcome to market their products any way that they want.
    Is there a list of the ITunes TVs anywhere?   I’ve been in Best Buy and Walmart and all seem to sayHulu, Netflix, YouTube. I expect Disney+ to show up on the boxes before Apple.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 90
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,821member
    avon b7 said:

    "No, there is no 5G on the iPhone 11 Pro family at all, and there shouldn't be this year. Standards are still shaking out, carriers are still getting their act together. What works this year is probably not going to be even close to a full array of what 5G will support in the future."

    If we take an educated guess from the rumours, it is almost certain that Apple was aiming for a 5G modem this year but intel didn't deliver.

    Releasing a 5G modem next year will not change the 'standards are still shaking out' claim. The relevant standards for current 5G modems were finalised at the end of 2017. Commercial deployment is now a reality and Apple probably wanted to be part of that reality.

    Long before Apple ships anything with a 5G modem, Huawei alone will have shipped 2,000,000 5G base stations worldwide. Add in Ericsson and Nokia, plus Qualcomm and Samsung and it is clear that Apple is at both a marketing and technological disadvantage. 5G will roll out far faster than previous generations.

    5G coverage will vastly improve through 2020. China is accelerating an already accelerated 5G roll out. Korea has massive plans. Europe too. The devil is in the details but Release 15 is finalised. The only changes to that will be stabilisation efforts. NSA is what current modems (with the exception of Huawei which claims SA support too) are using and that is finalised and real.

    Apart from the brute speed angle, things like 4GLTE/5G (NSA/SA)  network slicing will also bring big advantages to everyone. Apple is obviously going to find it harder to compete in even a 5G NSA world without a product and when it does have a 5G product, the standard will still be 'shaking out'. I think it matters today from a purchasing perspective and no doubt a fair amount of potential buyers will put purchases off to wait for it along with the rumoured body redesign. Users looking for a phone to take them through a three or four year cycle might be even more reluctant to upgrade now.

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2018/03/21/first-5g-standard-complete-so-whats-next
    I understand what you're saying it, and why you're saying it. The problem is partially the rollouts and partially the modems. The modems available today are hot battery drainers, and Apple's presence in the space doesn't magically change that. Those "finalized and real" modems you speak about are anything but finalized, and are pretty bad. This year, right now, we're in about the same implementation space as the iPhone 4, two years before Apple rolled out LTE in the iPhone.

    Couple that with the ratification of the latest modem spec about two weeks ago, and another expected in about March of 2020 right when Apple will need modems, and inclusion of a not-ready for prime time technology in the phone this year remains a bad idea regardless of what Joe Public may think that they want.

    We're not opposed to 5G. It's just not ready for a good implementation, delivering what the mass market wants right now. In regards to that roll-out, I live in a dense suburb of Washington DC. I am about six miles away from the White House. I won't see 5G in this neighborhood for four or five years. DC proper won't have a "complete" rollout for two more years.

    And, there will always, always be something to wait for next year about. That is the nature of technology. This is no different. At some point. companies need to produce a device and a consumer needs to jump on the purchase train.
    That’s America.   What is William Gallagher saying about how long 5G taking to roll out in UK and Europe?   Wish you had an Asia based reporter to give insight to that market.
  • Reply 32 of 90
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,821member
    avon b7 said:
    lkrupp said:
    avon b7 said:

    "No, there is no 5G on the iPhone 11 Pro family at all, and there shouldn't be this year. Standards are still shaking out, carriers are still getting their act together. What works this year is probably not going to be even close to a full array of what 5G will support in the future."

    If we take an educated guess from the rumours, it is almost certain that Apple was aiming for a 5G modem this year but intel didn't deliver.

    Releasing a 5G modem next year will not change the 'standards are still shaking out' claim. The relevant standards for current 5G modems were finalised at the end of 2017. Commercial deployment is now a reality and Apple probably wanted to be part of that reality.

    Long before Apple ships anything with a 5G modem, Huawei alone will have shipped 2,000,000 5G base stations worldwide. Add in Ericsson and Nokia, plus Qualcomm and Samsung and it is clear that Apple is at both a marketing and technological disadvantage. 5G will roll out far faster than previous generations.

    5G coverage will vastly improve through 2020. China is accelerating an already accelerated 5G roll out. Korea has massive plans. Europe too. The devil is in the details but Release 15 is finalised. The only changes to that will be stabilisation efforts. NSA is what current modems (with the exception of Huawei which claims SA support too) are using and that is finalised and real.

    Apart from the brute speed angle, things like 4GLTE/5G (NSA/SA)  network slicing will also bring big advantages to everyone. Apple is obviously going to find it harder to compete in even a 5G NSA world without a product and when it does have a 5G product, the standard will still be 'shaking out'. I think it matters today from a purchasing perspective and no doubt a fair amount of potential buyers will put purchases off to wait for it along with the rumoured body redesign. Users looking for a phone to take them through a three or four year cycle might be even more reluctant to upgrade now.

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2018/03/21/first-5g-standard-complete-so-whats-next
    But somehow they keep succeeding and the new, substandard iPhones are selling quite well it would appear. That must really piss you off big time. Apple, slowly going out of business for over forty years now.
    Why would it piss me off? I want better, cheaper iPhones! I want competition.

    I switched to Android a few years ago because I was literally priced out of the iPhone market. I got far more than I imagined and haven't looked back. I'm far more informed as a result. Now, instead of having to factor in two iPhones I only need one (for my wife) bur even she understood that for what was on offer for the price (21% V.A.T included) last year, it simply wasn't worth it. The improved trade in offer plus reimbursement of a battery upgrade was the only reason we upgraded.

    She has had more glitches with the XR than any previous iPhone (normally solved via a restart) but it is irritating for her.

    Now, having the two platforms side by side really allows us to evaluate their pros and cons and I am crossing my fingers that the Open Sourced HarmonyOS takes off because (on paper at least), it could mean a vast reduction in the importance (or lack of) of 'platforms' and interoperability.

    Having de-coupled, virtualised secure hardware working together as 'one', is a goal that could benefit users in a big way and by extension, hardware vendors.

    The foundation is being laid today. We'll see what comes tomorrow but everyone (Apple included) could benefit.
    How widespread is the 5G rollout in Europe.    I’m only guessing that the rollout in China is pretty fast based on other projects.   My guess is that the camera upgrade in the iPhone 11Pro is so good because they need to compensate for the lack of 5G in China where Huawei has been coming on strong .
  • Reply 33 of 90
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,967administrator
    k2kw said:
    avon b7 said:

    "No, there is no 5G on the iPhone 11 Pro family at all, and there shouldn't be this year. Standards are still shaking out, carriers are still getting their act together. What works this year is probably not going to be even close to a full array of what 5G will support in the future."

    If we take an educated guess from the rumours, it is almost certain that Apple was aiming for a 5G modem this year but intel didn't deliver.

    Releasing a 5G modem next year will not change the 'standards are still shaking out' claim. The relevant standards for current 5G modems were finalised at the end of 2017. Commercial deployment is now a reality and Apple probably wanted to be part of that reality.

    Long before Apple ships anything with a 5G modem, Huawei alone will have shipped 2,000,000 5G base stations worldwide. Add in Ericsson and Nokia, plus Qualcomm and Samsung and it is clear that Apple is at both a marketing and technological disadvantage. 5G will roll out far faster than previous generations.

    5G coverage will vastly improve through 2020. China is accelerating an already accelerated 5G roll out. Korea has massive plans. Europe too. The devil is in the details but Release 15 is finalised. The only changes to that will be stabilisation efforts. NSA is what current modems (with the exception of Huawei which claims SA support too) are using and that is finalised and real.

    Apart from the brute speed angle, things like 4GLTE/5G (NSA/SA)  network slicing will also bring big advantages to everyone. Apple is obviously going to find it harder to compete in even a 5G NSA world without a product and when it does have a 5G product, the standard will still be 'shaking out'. I think it matters today from a purchasing perspective and no doubt a fair amount of potential buyers will put purchases off to wait for it along with the rumoured body redesign. Users looking for a phone to take them through a three or four year cycle might be even more reluctant to upgrade now.

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2018/03/21/first-5g-standard-complete-so-whats-next
    I understand what you're saying it, and why you're saying it. The problem is partially the rollouts and partially the modems. The modems available today are hot battery drainers, and Apple's presence in the space doesn't magically change that. Those "finalized and real" modems you speak about are anything but finalized, and are pretty bad. This year, right now, we're in about the same implementation space as the iPhone 4, two years before Apple rolled out LTE in the iPhone.

    Couple that with the ratification of the latest modem spec about two weeks ago, and another expected in about March of 2020 right when Apple will need modems, and inclusion of a not-ready for prime time technology in the phone this year remains a bad idea regardless of what Joe Public may think that they want.

    We're not opposed to 5G. It's just not ready for a good implementation, delivering what the mass market wants right now. In regards to that roll-out, I live in a dense suburb of Washington DC. I am about six miles away from the White House. I won't see 5G in this neighborhood for four or five years. DC proper won't have a "complete" rollout for two more years.

    And, there will always, always be something to wait for next year about. That is the nature of technology. This is no different. At some point. companies need to produce a device and a consumer needs to jump on the purchase train.
    That’s America.   What is William Gallagher saying about how long 5G taking to roll out in UK and Europe?   Wish you had an Asia based reporter to give insight to that market.
    We already know. In Europe overall, It's going fairly well in Switzerland. The UK is very, very slowly coming along, with it focused in very few areas like it is in the US. Wide penetration in just London isn't expected until 2023, and Malcolm on the fringes of Wales isn't expecting it to arrive at all. Cardiff has it in some neighborhoods -- again, like the US.

    Asia varies. South Korea looks pretty good, but isn't really widely adopting mmWave, cutting way, way back on delivered speed, but also cutting back on the density of transmitters that mmwave demands. Docomo in Japan has the widest rollout, but with the same issues as South Korea -- limited or no mmWave.

    China's rollout is a bit further along than the US one, but not as far as Switzerland or South Korea. Still focused on urban areas, and local to neighborhoods. They seem to be adopting mmWave for the most part.

    The US has about 260 million smartphone users, about 45 percent of them have an iPhone. Japan has about 72 million smartphone users, with about 56% having an iPhone. South Korea has 36 million or so, with 28.5 percent having an iPhone. That's about 117 million, 40 million, and 10 million respectively.

    America is a good analog to Apple's needs, as it is far and away the biggest market for the company right now. And, none of this addresses the technological state of the battery-slurping 5G Modem as they stand today.
    edited September 21 tmayllama
  • Reply 34 of 90
    Meanwhile, in Australia. Telsta and Optus are both on the brink of selling 5G commercial services on mobile as well as mobile broadband, while Vodafone will follow in 2020. Telstra has committed to connecting all major capital cities and regional areas to 5G over the course of 2019, while Optus promised 1,200 5G sites in five Australian states by 2020. With a lot of work involved in rolling out these new technologies, it’s expected that 5G access will be limited to places like the city and other key metro areas before it becomes part of daily life for Australians everywhere.

    Given the time it will take before 5G is made widely available across Australia, it’s probably best to hold off before rushing out to buy a 5G-compatible phone.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 90
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    Says a guy who has only seen one but never owned one. It is not distracting in the slightest. No more than a rear-view mirror is distracting when looking out your windshield. 
    watto_cobrallamaalexonline
  • Reply 36 of 90

    avon b7 said:
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    I'm slowly coming round to the conclusion that the notch hasn't aged well from a design perspective.

    At the time it was a necessary compromise for the objectives at hand. All notches were, but two years later, the exact same design with basically no improvement is beginning to look 'clunky' when compared to alternative options.

    Don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with them from the get go and my current phone has one. For me it is not a problem at all, but times change.

    We now have some spectacular full screen (or almost full screen) options on the market and choice in how to get them (sliders, pop-ups, hole punches).
    You’re “slowly” coming to this conclusion? Riiiight. You’ve been arguing this nonsense about Apple design for over a year. We get it, you don’t like iphones and you love a certain chinese knockoff brand that you for some reason are quite devoted to propping up on this Apple forum. Cool story, bub. 

    Enjoy your sliders and pop-up solutions. Don’t sound like clunky alternatives at all. 
    edited September 21 thtwatto_cobrallamaalexonline
  • Reply 37 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,290member
    Currently Vodafone is live with commercial 5G in Spain in fifteen major cities with coverage expected to reach 50% of their populations by year end. 2020 will see the other operators come online. Coverage is constantly being extended.

    Initial coverage as is usual with any roll out will be focused on urban areas and business  first (unless you happen to live in a smaller town where there was a 5G pilot in operation).

    As Mike said above, Switzerland is moving fast. China is accelerating its plans. Huawei has signed around 60 commercial 5G contracts and plans to ship 2,000,000 base stations worldwide by 2020 year end. 600,000 by end of 2019 and 1,500,00 in 2020 (none to the U.S of course). Nokia, Ericsson and Samsung will probably produce less but amounts will be notable, nevertheless. Samsung seems to be really ramping its 5G efforts. The last I read was that it had shipped 50,000+ base stations in South Korea alone. South Korea is said to have 2,000,000 active 5G users. Samsung has also pumped a lot into 5G R&D over the last few years.

    On the automobile front, a Spanish newspaper claimed this week that Huawei had already begun the "massive deployment of its C-V2X solutions for cars and public transport".

    "Huawei ha iniciado el despliegue "masivo" de C-V2X para todo tipo de automóviles, privados y transporte público, ha detallado la empresa."

    https://www.expansion.com/economia-digital/companias/2019/09/21/5d85e342e5fdeac12f8b4651.html

    Other partners involved are Audi, Daimler, intel, Ericsson, Nokia, Cisco, Hyundai etc,. 2020/21 is the planned timeframe for commercial availability.

    https://5gaa.org/5g-technology/c-v2x/

    We tend to visualise 5G as a mobile phone technology but it will end up pretty much everywhere and at a snappy pace.


  • Reply 38 of 90
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,979member
    avon b7 said:
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    I'm slowly coming round to the conclusion that the notch hasn't aged well from a design perspective.

    At the time it was a necessary compromise for the objectives at hand. All notches were, but two years later, the exact same design with basically no improvement is beginning to look 'clunky' when compared to alternative options.

    Don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with them from the get go and my current phone has one. For me it is not a problem at all, but times change.

    We now have some spectacular full screen (or almost full screen) options on the market and choice in how to get them (sliders, pop-ups, hole punches).

    The main reason for Apple's notch was FaceID (a simple biometric) and that hasn't really changed to this date. They haven't really moved forward with it in other ways either. In fact, the hardware is basically the same. I'm a big fan of rear mounted fingerprint sensors but since the iPhone X, in-screen biometric options have come a long way. They are performing well.

    Two years later you look at the iPhone 11 Pro and the bezels and notch look bigger than they should be when others are doing more in less space or eliminating notches altogether.

    I'm not sure why reducing the notch space hasn't been tackled on the new iPhones.
    You lost me at "I'm a big fan of rear mounted fingerprint sensors".

    Rear mounted fingerprint sensors were awful ergonomic design from day one because it was unavailable with the screen face up on a table or other surface. "But look how easy it is to slide your finger behind the phone to use it" you would state, which is still by definition. awful ergonomics.

    I would be surprised if any device maker still uses it.

    For the record, Apple fussing with the size and configuration of the notch, which isn't currently an issue at all, isn't going to happen because Apple already has a roadmap in place to fully replace Face ID sans notch.

    Why waste engineering resources shrinking it?
    edited September 22 watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,290member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    M68000 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Until these are notchless, I’ll pass.
    Apple seems to like it for whatever reason.  They must think that tiny bit of screen space is a good thing.  But it comes at a price.  The notch is both futuristic looking and distracting at the same time.  The eye is drawn to it often when looking at the new phones.   It may be possible to deal with it but it remains distracting.
    I'm slowly coming round to the conclusion that the notch hasn't aged well from a design perspective.

    At the time it was a necessary compromise for the objectives at hand. All notches were, but two years later, the exact same design with basically no improvement is beginning to look 'clunky' when compared to alternative options.

    Don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with them from the get go and my current phone has one. For me it is not a problem at all, but times change.

    We now have some spectacular full screen (or almost full screen) options on the market and choice in how to get them (sliders, pop-ups, hole punches).

    The main reason for Apple's notch was FaceID (a simple biometric) and that hasn't really changed to this date. They haven't really moved forward with it in other ways either. In fact, the hardware is basically the same. I'm a big fan of rear mounted fingerprint sensors but since the iPhone X, in-screen biometric options have come a long way. They are performing well.

    Two years later you look at the iPhone 11 Pro and the bezels and notch look bigger than they should be when others are doing more in less space or eliminating notches altogether.

    I'm not sure why reducing the notch space hasn't been tackled on the new iPhones.
    You lost me at "I'm a big fan of rear mounted fingerprint sensors".

    Rear mounted fingerprint sensors were awful ergonomic design from day one because it was unavailable with the screen face up on a table or other surface. "But look how easy it is to slide your finger behind the phone to use it" you would state, which is still by definition. awful ergonomics.

    I would be surprised if any device maker still uses it.

    For the record, Apple fussing with the size and configuration of the notch, which isn't currently an issue at all, isn't going to happen because Apple already has a roadmap in place to fully replace Face ID sans notch.

    Why waste engineering resources shrinking it?
    We've been down this road before and nothing has changed since then.

    Rear mounted fingerprint sensors are perfect ergonomic options. Many phones still use them.

    If you are are going to actually use your phone there is no better place than in your hand.

    If it is on a flat surface there is no problem. Why do you think double tap to wake was implemented? If it is 'mounted' (sat nav) there is no problem either as the screen doesn't turn off in the first place.

    It is strange that after using rear mounted scanners for years and having literally zero problems with ergonomics and use, the only people that tell me they are bad/wrong are those that have never even used one.

    As for making the notch smaller, it would make a massive difference in how the phone looks, competitors have not only already done this with dramatic results but they have managed to cram more tech inside and given that tech more uses. Here is an example. A very simple example. Back in 2016, AI was being used to override screen rotation settings. The iPhone X surprisingly didn't ship with this feature. Much later it was added I believe via a update. Now AI is being used to actively present the content in the best way depending on how the user is viewing the screen (observe the size of the notch):




    If Apple hasn't changed the notch it is very probably only cost related and has little to do with engineering resources.

    The result is that it currently takes up most of the top part of the screen, which, as I said further up, may have been reasonable in 2017 but two years later (and unchanged) is now looking clunky. Especially as competitors have managed to free up much more space around it.
    edited September 22
  • Reply 40 of 90
    Mike Wuerthele said: Con is a little strong. They are welcome to market their products any way that they want.
    I don't remember the same skepticism for other Dolby audio formats that came to mobile or for Dolby Vision support on mobile screens. Simulating surround with the limited number of speakers in standard headphones has been around a long time. Atmos for mobile is just an updated version of it. 
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