It’s an extremely limited technology that offers no new high value or behavior changing application. Compare this to 4G - which made streaming video possible or 3G that made the internet usable. These were extremely valuable leaps that changed people’s lives significantly. What does 5G offer? The ability to download very large files quickly? What else?
Even if 5G does offer some valuable new ability that is meaningful to everyone. There is a critical flaw with the technology. It covers such short distances it will never work widely outside of densely populated areas - this means that it cannot be relied on for any meaningful new service - this is a critical flaw!
These Wall Street analysts are very simply looking back on 3G and 4G and assuming this is the same thing - it is not!
It will be a game changer on many fronts but just like now, all the pieces have to be in place.
Today 5G phones and networking equipment are being rolled out. There will be important changes ahead that go beyond handsets.
"Huawei is in many ways a special company, and revered at home. It may shape China's innovation. Yet the gray lines between companies like Huawei and the party may damage their brands abroad. Meanwhile, the harder lines being drawn between millions of other private enterprises and the state sector may turn out to be ideologically correct, but commercially harmful."
A company that sells knockoff Apple products and has knockoff Apple Stores will "shape China's innovation"??
This only cements the cliche "cheap chinese knockoffs".
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
A company that sells knockoff Apple products and has knockoff Apple Stores will "shape China's innovation"??
This only cements the cliche "cheap chinese knockoffs".
You have a very limited understanding of the revolution of 5G. 90% of the innovation in 5G is in the network infrastructure, where the major suppliers are Huawei, Ericsson and Nokia. And here Huawei cannot copy from Apple, because Apple has simply no network infrastructure products
It’s an extremely limited technology that offers no new high value or behavior changing application. Compare this to 4G - which made streaming video possible or 3G that made the internet usable. These were extremely valuable leaps that changed people’s lives significantly. What does 5G offer? The ability to download very large files quickly? What else?
Even if 5G does offer some valuable new ability that is meaningful to everyone. There is a critical flaw with the technology. It covers such short distances it will never work widely outside of densely populated areas - this means that it cannot be relied on for any meaningful new service - this is a critical flaw!
These Wall Street analysts are very simply looking back on 3G and 4G and assuming this is the same thing - it is not!
5G will find it's use, people always find a way to use what's available even if we can't think today what that would be. I mean why would anyone ever need more then 640k of RAM?
But honestly I don't see any reason to go 5G on my phone until 2023 or later. Until that killer app comes around, my LTE speeds are more then acceptable for my personal use case.
Also, unless you live in an urban area (I don't) I don't expect any real benefit to 5G at all ever.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
There has been no reliable rumor that Apple was ever going to have 5G in the iPhone 11, so no, they wouldn't have saved themselves "billions of dollars". This is a straw man argument.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
This year’s model was locked down long ago. They don’t and can’t make serious changes last second from the suit.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
This year’s model was locked down long ago. They don’t and can’t make serious changes last second from the suit.
I'm speculating of course but I'm of the opinion that Apple would have liked to be in this race with all the others but their situation just made it impossible with intel hitting delays and QC not being an option at the time.
Remember Apple knew competitors were going to ship first gen modems at the end of 2018 start of 2019 and that 5G would go live commercially in 2019.
Yes, we have the official stances from the three sides like intel's "we only had one customer" but I'm sure that was the case at the outset too and just like Samsung, intel would have established some kind of minimum orders to be met by Apple.
My personal thinking is that Apple took some risks and it didn't play out like they had hoped and in the end, all three were relieved for different reasons.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
There has been no reliable rumor that Apple was ever going to have 5G in the iPhone 11, so no, they wouldn't have saved themselves "billions of dollars". This is a straw man argument.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
5G modems won't hit mid range devices until next year, right about the time I might be back in the market and of course I never eat dog food.
That said, my dog's food is calibrated for her needs and is of such high quality and prepared in a plant that exceeds the requirements for human consumption so, in a squeeze, I could eat it if necessary.
The necessity you speak of is a market necessity, not my necessity. Just like low light performance, battery performance, shell design and even price etc.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
There has been no reliable rumor that Apple was ever going to have 5G in the iPhone 11, so no, they wouldn't have saved themselves "billions of dollars". This is a straw man argument.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
5G modems won't hit mid range devices until next year, right about the time I might be back in the market and of course I never eat dog food.
That said, my dog's food is calibrated for her needs and is of such high quality and prepared in a plant that exceeds the requirements for human consumption so, in a squeeze, I could eat it if necessary.
The necessity you speak of is a market necessity, not my necessity. Just like low light performance, battery performance, shell design and even price etc.
You have basically stated that 5G doesn't provide enough value for yourself today, primarily because of the small premium for a current flagship, whereas I and others have stated that 5G is immature, so there is no market necessity for a 5G iPhone today, and a positive for Apple as they will launch with a second generation, energy efficient modem in 2020.
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
There has been no reliable rumor that Apple was ever going to have 5G in the iPhone 11, so no, they wouldn't have saved themselves "billions of dollars". This is a straw man argument.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
5G modems won't hit mid range devices until next year, right about the time I might be back in the market and of course I never eat dog food.
That said, my dog's food is calibrated for her needs and is of such high quality and prepared in a plant that exceeds the requirements for human consumption so, in a squeeze, I could eat it if necessary.
The necessity you speak of is a market necessity, not my necessity. Just like low light performance, battery performance, shell design and even price etc.
You have basically stated that 5G doesn't provide enough value for yourself today, primarily because of the small premium for a current flagship, whereas I and others have stated that 5G is immature, so there is no market necessity for a 5G iPhone today, and a positive for Apple as they will launch with a second generation, energy efficient modem in 2020.
Go back and actually read what I said. It's there in black and white.
Not having a 5G option puts Apple at a disadvantage at a market level. I understand 5G, I know what's right for me and when but I am not the market. I am part of the market. Insignificant as an individual.
This year there will be a marketing blitz around 5G. I will be unfazed because I understand what is involved and my upgrade cycle gives me a lot of flexibility.
I am not your average smartphone buyer though and many will be convinced they need 5G if they are paying a high price. Of course many others (iPhone users in this case) who follow far longer upgrade cycles may be tempted to postpone any purchase altogether until 5G arrives on an iPhone. That's the market in a nutshell.
Some things are clear and one of them is that 5G will roll out far faster than 3G and 4G and 5G will have a far greater impact on business than any previous generational switch.
Your personal options are clear as you only contemplate iPhones. Or you buy into an iPhone 11 without 5G (for the next three or four years?). You sit it out until next year. Or you go halfway: buy now and trade in or sell up before you had originally planned.
If you really think 5G won't reach your neck of the woods in the next three years you have an easy decision but you, like me, are not the market.
What has moved the handset market over the last three years? It definitely hasn't been CPU performance. Camera tech has been the number one area the market has sought. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
For a time 5G will be the next big push or do you think carriers have invested billions in infrastructure only to not push it?
Imagine Apple being dumb enough to slap "5G" on iPhone boxes just to fool dumb people into thinking they now have 5G? Apple does what makes sense when it's ready.
P.S. It didn't take long for him to mention that knockoff Apple company did it??
Ah! So you clearly believe Apple never had the slightest intention of shipping a 5G phone this year. They could have saved themselves a billion dollars and shipped the planned intel 5G modem next year and would not have had to stop the fight with Qualcomm, which may have led to a game changing outcome, and deliver right on schedule (according to your vision of Apple's plans).
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
There has been no reliable rumor that Apple was ever going to have 5G in the iPhone 11, so no, they wouldn't have saved themselves "billions of dollars". This is a straw man argument.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
5G modems won't hit mid range devices until next year, right about the time I might be back in the market and of course I never eat dog food.
That said, my dog's food is calibrated for her needs and is of such high quality and prepared in a plant that exceeds the requirements for human consumption so, in a squeeze, I could eat it if necessary.
The necessity you speak of is a market necessity, not my necessity. Just like low light performance, battery performance, shell design and even price etc.
You have basically stated that 5G doesn't provide enough value for yourself today, primarily because of the small premium for a current flagship, whereas I and others have stated that 5G is immature, so there is no market necessity for a 5G iPhone today, and a positive for Apple as they will launch with a second generation, energy efficient modem in 2020.
Go back and actually read what I said. It's there in black and white.
Not having a 5G option puts Apple at a disadvantage at a market level. I understand 5G, I know what's right for me and when but I am not the market. I am part of the market. Insignificant as an individual.
This year there will be a marketing blitz around 5G. I will be unfazed because I understand what is involved and my upgrade cycle gives me a lot of flexibility.
I am not your average smartphone buyer though and many will be convinced they need 5G if they are paying a high price. Of course many others (iPhone users in this case) who follow far longer upgrade cycles may be tempted to postpone any purchase altogether until 5G arrives on an iPhone. That's the market in a nutshell.
Some things are clear and one of them is that 5G will roll out far faster than 3G and 4G and 5G will have a far greater impact on business than any previous generational switch.
Your personal options are clear as you only contemplate iPhones. Or you buy into an iPhone 11 without 5G (for the next three or four years?). You sit it out until next year. Or you go halfway: buy now and trade in or sell up before you had originally planned.
If you really think 5G won't reach your neck of the woods in the next three years you have an easy decision but you, like me, are not the market.
What has moved the handset market over the last three years? It definitely hasn't been CPU performance. Camera tech has been the number one area the market has sought. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
For a time 5G will be the next big push or do you think carriers have invested billions in infrastructure only to not push it?
I disagree that Apple is at a disadvantage, and I doubt there will be many that will abandon iOS and move to Android OS rather than wait next year. The media is pretty much calling the initial rollout of 5G problematic, and some are recommending waiting until next year anyway.
So no, I'm not seeing a disadvantage for Apple at all, though some will certainly delay purchase of their iPhone until next year. I'm not one of those.
Comments
A company that sells knockoff Apple products and has knockoff Apple Stores will "shape China's innovation"??
This only cements the cliche "cheap chinese knockoffs".
They are not behind schedule after all. It was planned and is going swimmingly.
The deal with Qualcomm was due to the concern that Intel would not be able to bring a 5G modem to Apple for the iPhone 12 next year, when there would have been much more 5 G infrastructure in place, and more competitors with mm wave compatible modems and phones. As it is, Apple will be getting the next generation Qualcomm modem that will be much more energy efficient, and support all of the necessary bands, especially mm wave.
I would note, that you preach 5G, but will be holding off actually purchasing a phone until your budget allows it.
That is exactly a case of not eating you own dog food, and frankly fucking hypocritical in your arguments of the "necessity" for Apple to have 5g this year.
I would note that Apple also purchased long term rights to the Qualcomm Modem as well as the IP to continue on the path of making their own, which was one of the reasons that Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/25/8909671/apple-intel-5g-smartphone-modems-acquisition
Remember Apple knew competitors were going to ship first gen modems at the end of 2018 start of 2019 and that 5G would go live commercially in 2019.
Yes, we have the official stances from the three sides like intel's "we only had one customer" but I'm sure that was the case at the outset too and just like Samsung, intel would have established some kind of minimum orders to be met by Apple.
My personal thinking is that Apple took some risks and it didn't play out like they had hoped and in the end, all three were relieved for different reasons.
That said, my dog's food is calibrated for her needs and is of such high quality and prepared in a plant that exceeds the requirements for human consumption so, in a squeeze, I could eat it if necessary.
The necessity you speak of is a market necessity, not my necessity. Just like low light performance, battery performance, shell design and even price etc.
Not having a 5G option puts Apple at a disadvantage at a market level. I understand 5G, I know what's right for me and when but I am not the market. I am part of the market. Insignificant as an individual.
This year there will be a marketing blitz around 5G. I will be unfazed because I understand what is involved and my upgrade cycle gives me a lot of flexibility.
I am not your average smartphone buyer though and many will be convinced they need 5G if they are paying a high price. Of course many others (iPhone users in this case) who follow far longer upgrade cycles may be tempted to postpone any purchase altogether until 5G arrives on an iPhone. That's the market in a nutshell.
Some things are clear and one of them is that 5G will roll out far faster than 3G and 4G and 5G will have a far greater impact on business than any previous generational switch.
Your personal options are clear as you only contemplate iPhones. Or you buy into an iPhone 11 without 5G (for the next three or four years?). You sit it out until next year. Or you go halfway: buy now and trade in or sell up before you had originally planned.
If you really think 5G won't reach your neck of the woods in the next three years you have an easy decision but you, like me, are not the market.
What has moved the handset market over the last three years? It definitely hasn't been CPU performance. Camera tech has been the number one area the market has sought. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
For a time 5G will be the next big push or do you think carriers have invested billions in infrastructure only to not push it?
So no, I'm not seeing a disadvantage for Apple at all, though some will certainly delay purchase of their iPhone until next year. I'm not one of those.