Apple claims (and they have a fair number of OLED patents), that while their screens are made by Samsung, they include Apple technology. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it’s somewhat different than Samsung’s screens they use for themselves, and presumably from those they sell to others, rather than to Apple.
I’d guess the panel is as said Samsung made but the display processor that communicates with gpu is apple made processing unit. It handles all the color, brightness etc adjustments.
Samsung isn't involved in iPhone development. They just own plants that fulfill orders. That's it. Anyone else (LG, Japan Display, etc.) could do this if they were capable of fulfilling the large orders Apple demands. Right now only Samsungs plant can fulfill these large orders, They have absolutely nothing to do with iPhone development. Heck, they don't even develop Samsung displays, they just fulfill orders.
Apple isn't a parts manufacturer so it would be stupid for them to open a manufacturing plant just to shut up iKnockoff trolls. The screens would also be 100% identical.
Neither @nadriel ; nor @coolfactor ; were arguing that Samsung is involved in iPhone development. No one made that argument. It's your strawman. And you're also wrong about LG and Japan Display being able to do it if they were capable of fulfilling large orders. First, it's a specious argument. "They could do it if they didn't have to do it completely. Derp. They can't do the 2nd most important part: Volume. So they can't do it. Second, even if they could do the volume, there's no guarantee they could deliver on the most important part: Quality. Anecdotal evidence says that the quality part is the biggest stumbling block for both LG and JDI... well the whole thing is the problem for JDI, but that's a discussion for another time.
The problem that both Samsung and LG have is that, so far, neither seems to be able to land on the other’s turf. Samsung can’t seem to make LED tv screens, and so uses LG’s in their “real” OLED sets, while LG hasn’t been able, so far, to master making high quality small screens for phones and tablets.
and as I’ve said, Apple’s OLED screens are NOT identical to Samsung’s.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
I think what makes Apples displays better is color accuracy.
Color accuracy for me, has been the most important factor since I got into display tech in 2004.
Samsung will always win with "color" as people tend to be attracted to over-saturated color for some reason. Samsung has always had a way of tricking less-intelligent people with specs etc.
Not gonna lie when I was a kid (maybe 7 years old) I used to love turning up the "color" control. Looked cooler until I understood the tech later.
The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid. It's intentional and a choice. But Displaymate still says the Note 10 is a more color accurate screen. So I'm not really sure where your argument goes from there. Subjectively, people like what they like and there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, that's probably the best route for you take. You like Apple screens and you think they're the best. It's your opinion and that's fine. We don't live our lives based strictly on scientific data. But if we're going to use Displaymate's findings to objectively measure, that measurement still says Samsung makes a more color accurate screen. Note 10: http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm#Color_Accuracy Pro Max: http://www.displaymate.com/iPhone_11Pro_ShootOut_1P.htm#Color_Accuracy
Relevant. Color Accuracy Note 10: DCI-P3 0.4 JNCD sRGB 0.4 JNCD Pro Max DCI-P3 0.8 JNCD sRGB 0.9 JNCD
There are plenty more stats in the links, but they all pretty much tell the same tale. Data says Samsung screens are more color accurate.
That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
Apple claims (and they have a fair number of OLED patents), that while their screens are made by Samsung, they include Apple technology. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it’s somewhat different than Samsung’s screens they use for themselves, and presumably from those they sell to others, rather than to Apple.
I’d guess the panel is as said Samsung made but the display processor that communicates with gpu is apple made processing unit. It handles all the color, brightness etc adjustments.
According to Displaymate’s tests of Apple’s new phone, they said that the LEDs in the screen are larger than anyone else’s screen. So they’re not the same as the Samsung at the design and manufacturing level. Not exactly anyway. So it’s more than just controllers, the screen itself is capable of higher brightness because of design.
Although I understand your underlying point of the screens having differences, are you sure you're not misquoting Displaymate? I ask because the closest thing I found that relates to your claim is this: "On the iPhone 11 Pro Max the resulting Sub-Pixel fill factor is much higher than other OLEDs, which is a key factor in providing the much higher Peak Luminance of over 770 nits." To be fair, the pages are information dense so I could have missed the section you're quoting in my quick skim.
To your underlying point, I think we can all agree there are subtle differences in the OLED panels - most likely due to customer specification. Galaxy panels are slightly different than iPhone panels are slightly different from the panels for OnePlus, etc. They're all good panels, coupled with each companies color science and processors, so you end up with great screens.
I think what makes Apples displays better is color accuracy.
Color accuracy for me, has been the most important factor since I got into display tech in 2004.
The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid. It's intentional and a choice. But Displaymate still says the Note 10 is a more color accurate screen. There are plenty more stats in the links, but they all pretty much tell the same tale. Data says Samsung screens are more color accurate.
That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
That’s only partly correct. While it’s true that Apple uses panels manufactured by Samsung, at least with OLEDs, Apple has several dozen patents, and they claim that the OLED panels manufactured for them use Apple technology. Under a microscope, while Apple’s LED layout look similar to Samsung’s, there are differences. Considering that small visible differences can mean some different technology, I believe Apple’s claims. The fact that Apple’s latest displays are the brightest, and show larger LED sites, shows that they aren’t standard, off the shelf, Samsung panels.
samsung has now shown all of its latest devices, and Apple’s screens are on top. I’m sure that this will spur Samsung to attempt to equal, or move ahead, next year, and so will Apple.
What are you reading bud that makes you think my quote is partially correct? It's 100% correct. You're rebutting things in my quote that aren't actually in my quote. I made no claim of same panels so... not sure why you're presenting "evidence" that the panels aren't the same. Also Apple having OLED patents - several dozen or several thousand - is a meaningless data point that you keep mentioning. Having patents doesn't mean a company is using tech based on said patents. It's literal conversational fluff... unless you can substantiate usage of said patented tech. Instead of breaking down each of your claims, let me ask you this. You have any sources for those claims? What OLED tech is Apple using? How does their Diamond Pixel config differ? When did Apple actually make those claims? Brightest display? Hmmm. Displaymate says differently. Larger LED sites? What does that even mean.
To be clear, I am not questioning Apple or the quality of Apple's screens. They're obviously top notch screens (pun intended). I am questioning the accuracy of your claims. They seem to be unsupported guessing and wishful thinking. I'd love to read any links you have to substantiate, well any of that stuff.
Apple claims (and they have a fair number of OLED patents), that while their screens are made by Samsung, they include Apple technology. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it’s somewhat different than Samsung’s screens they use for themselves, and presumably from those they sell to others, rather than to Apple.
I’d guess the panel is as said Samsung made but the display processor that communicates with gpu is apple made processing unit. It handles all the color, brightness etc adjustments.
According to Displaymate’s tests of Apple’s new phone, they said that the LEDs in the screen are larger than anyone else’s screen. So they’re not the same as the Samsung at the design and manufacturing level. Not exactly anyway. So it’s more than just controllers, the screen itself is capable of higher brightness because of design.
Although I understand your underlying point of the screens having differences, are you sure you're not misquoting Displaymate? I ask because the closest thing I found that relates to your claim is this: "On the iPhone 11 Pro Max the resulting Sub-Pixel fill factor is much higher than other OLEDs, which is a key factor in providing the much higher Peak Luminance of over 770 nits." To be fair, the pages are information dense so I could have missed the section you're quoting in my quick skim.
To your underlying point, I think we can all agree there are subtle differences in the OLED panels - most likely due to customer specification. Galaxy panels are slightly different than iPhone panels are slightly different from the panels for OnePlus, etc. They're all good panels, coupled with each companies color science and processors, so you end up with great screens.
I think what makes Apples displays better is color accuracy.
Color accuracy for me, has been the most important factor since I got into display tech in 2004.
The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid. It's intentional and a choice. But Displaymate still says the Note 10 is a more color accurate screen. There are plenty more stats in the links, but they all pretty much tell the same tale. Data says Samsung screens are more color accurate.
That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
First, to clarify, color was my business for decades. I was instrumental in the early evolution of color standards, and my business, a commercial film lab was one of the first to adopt digital. So I get what’s happening here. Also, if you insist in talking about numbers, you need to add some context. When those numbers drop below specific levels, further improvement serves no purpose, as we can’t see them. Because of my business, and training, I can see differences that most people can’t, but even people in my position can’t see beyond certain points.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
That’s only partly correct. While it’s true that Apple uses panels manufactured by Samsung, at least with OLEDs, Apple has several dozen patents, and they claim that the OLED panels manufactured for them use Apple technology. Under a microscope, while Apple’s LED layout look similar to Samsung’s, there are differences. Considering that small visible differences can mean some different technology, I believe Apple’s claims. The fact that Apple’s latest displays are the brightest, and show larger LED sites, shows that they aren’t standard, off the shelf, Samsung panels.
samsung has now shown all of its latest devices, and Apple’s screens are on top. I’m sure that this will spur Samsung to attempt to equal, or move ahead, next year, and so will Apple.
What are you reading bud that makes you think my quote is partially correct? It's 100% correct. You're rebutting things in my quote that aren't actually in my quote. I made no claim of same panels so... not sure why you're presenting "evidence" that the panels aren't the same. Also Apple having OLED patents - several dozen or several thousand - is a meaningless data point that you keep mentioning. Having patents doesn't mean a company is using tech based on said patents. It's literal conversational fluff... unless you can substantiate usage of said patented tech. Instead of breaking down each of your claims, let me ask you this. You have any sources for those claims? What OLED tech is Apple using? How does their Diamond Pixel config differ? When did Apple actually make those claims? Brightest display? Hmmm. Displaymate says differently. Larger LED sites? What does that even mean.
To be clear, I am not questioning Apple or the quality of Apple's screens. They're obviously top notch screens (pun intended). I am questioning the accuracy of your claims. They seem to be unsupported guessing and wishful thinking. I'd love to read any links you have to substantiate, well any of that stuff.
What you’re trying to do is to minimize any of Apple’s input on the design and manufacturer of these displays with a dismissal of reality. When Apple publicly states that Apple technology is in the displays, you can be sure they’re not talking trash, particularly when they have the R&D and patents to go with it.
melgross said: That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
First, to clarify, color was my business for decades. I was instrumental in the early evolution of color standards, and my business, a commercial film lab was one of the first to adopt digital. So I get what’s happening here. Also, if you insist in talking about numbers, you need to add some context. When those numbers drop below specific levels, further improvement serves no purpose, as we can’t see them. Because of my business, and training, I can see differences that most people can’t, but even people in my position can’t see beyond certain points.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
Highest Absolute Color Accuracy (0.9 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect. Note 10 (0.4 JNCD) VIFP - This is our point of contention. I am right.
Highest HDR Peak Brightness of 1,290 nits for standard HDR 20% APL, and 1,090 nits for Full Screen White with 100% APL. Note 10 (1,308 nits for Low APL)
Highest Visible Screen Resolution 2.7K (2688x1242) – 4K Does Not appear visually sharper on a Smartphone. Note 10 3K (3040x1440)
Your background is meaningless as it relates to this conversation. It does not lend credence to your claims. Nor does is refute mine. Now to reiterate my claim: Displaymate states that the Note 10 is the most color accurate screen. The records you're using as evidence is countered by Displaymate's Note 10 evidence. For convenience, I'll just put them beside the info for Apple. Again as I stated to AppleExposed and subsequently to you, Displaymate says the Note 10 has the most color accurate screen. None of your life experience changes that.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
That’s only partly correct. While it’s true that Apple uses panels manufactured by Samsung, at least with OLEDs, Apple has several dozen patents, and they claim that the OLED panels manufactured for them use Apple technology. Under a microscope, while Apple’s LED layout look similar to Samsung’s, there are differences. Considering that small visible differences can mean some different technology, I believe Apple’s claims. The fact that Apple’s latest displays are the brightest, and show larger LED sites, shows that they aren’t standard, off the shelf, Samsung panels.
samsung has now shown all of its latest devices, and Apple’s screens are on top. I’m sure that this will spur Samsung to attempt to equal, or move ahead, next year, and so will Apple.
What are you reading bud that makes you think my quote is partially correct? It's 100% correct. You're rebutting things in my quote that aren't actually in my quote. I made no claim of same panels so... not sure why you're presenting "evidence" that the panels aren't the same. Also Apple having OLED patents - several dozen or several thousand - is a meaningless data point that you keep mentioning. Having patents doesn't mean a company is using tech based on said patents. It's literal conversational fluff... unless you can substantiate usage of said patented tech. Instead of breaking down each of your claims, let me ask you this. You have any sources for those claims? What OLED tech is Apple using? How does their Diamond Pixel config differ? When did Apple actually make those claims? Brightest display? Hmmm. Displaymate says differently. Larger LED sites? What does that even mean.
To be clear, I am not questioning Apple or the quality of Apple's screens. They're obviously top notch screens (pun intended). I am questioning the accuracy of your claims. They seem to be unsupported guessing and wishful thinking. I'd love to read any links you have to substantiate, well any of that stuff.
What you’re trying to do is to minimize any of Apple’s input on the design and manufacturer of these displays with a dismissal of reality. When Apple publicly states that Apple technology is in the displays, you can be sure they’re not talking trash, particularly when they have the R&D and patents to go with it.
Doubting the veracity of your claims in no way, shape, or form minimizes Apple's input on the design and manufacturer of these displays. I was pretty clear about that. You seem to be attempting to equate your unsubstantiated opinions with actions of Apple. Please don't. I'm 100% sure Apple isn't talking trash. I'm pretty sure you are though.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
I think what makes Apples displays better is color accuracy.
Color accuracy for me, has been the most important factor since I got into display tech in 2004.
Samsung will always win with "color" as people tend to be attracted to over-saturated color for some reason. Samsung has always had a way of tricking less-intelligent people with specs etc.
Not gonna lie when I was a kid (maybe 7 years old) I used to love turning up the "color" control. Looked cooler until I understood the tech later.
The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid. It's intentional and a choice. But Displaymate still says the Note 10 is a more color accurate screen. So I'm not really sure where your argument goes from there. Subjectively, people like what they like and there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, that's probably the best route for you take. You like Apple screens and you think they're the best. It's your opinion and that's fine. We don't live our lives based strictly on scientific data. But if we're going to use Displaymate's findings to objectively measure, that measurement still says Samsung makes a more color accurate screen. Note 10: http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm#Color_Accuracy Pro Max: http://www.displaymate.com/iPhone_11Pro_ShootOut_1P.htm#Color_Accuracy
Relevant. Color Accuracy Note 10: DCI-P3 0.4 JNCD sRGB 0.4 JNCD Pro Max DCI-P3 0.8 JNCD sRGB 0.9 JNCD
There are plenty more stats in the links, but they all pretty much tell the same tale. Data says Samsung screens are more color accurate.
Haven't tried the Note 10 so maybe Samsung had a change of heart? Apples TrueTone Display is unmatched and the reason color accuracy is beautiful on iPhone/iPad. Last Samsung I've seen were very very vivid.
"The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid."
I'm not gonna argue that. The problem is, to the average Joe vivid colors look nicer. The grass is "greener" and the sky is "bluer".
Reviewers ready to sh** on Apple are quick to defend Samsungs saturated color explaining it takes better pictures for "memories" lol.
Apple claims (and they have a fair number of OLED patents), that while their screens are made by Samsung, they include Apple technology. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it’s somewhat different than Samsung’s screens they use for themselves, and presumably from those they sell to others, rather than to Apple.
I’d guess the panel is as said Samsung made but the display processor that communicates with gpu is apple made processing unit. It handles all the color, brightness etc adjustments.
Samsung isn't involved in iPhone development. They just own plants that fulfill orders. That's it. Anyone else (LG, Japan Display, etc.) could do this if they were capable of fulfilling the large orders Apple demands. Right now only Samsungs plant can fulfill these large orders, They have absolutely nothing to do with iPhone development. Heck, they don't even develop Samsung displays, they just fulfill orders.
Apple isn't a parts manufacturer so it would be stupid for them to open a manufacturing plant just to shut up iKnockoff trolls. The screens would also be 100% identical.
Neither @nadriel ; nor @coolfactor ; were arguing that Samsung is involved in iPhone development. No one made that argument. It's your strawman. And you're also wrong about LG and Japan Display being able to do it if they were capable of fulfilling large orders. First, it's a specious argument. "They could do it if they didn't have to do it completely. Derp. They can't do the 2nd most important part: Volume. So they can't do it. Second, even if they could do the volume, there's no guarantee they could deliver on the most important part: Quality. Anecdotal evidence says that the quality part is the biggest stumbling block for both LG and JDI... well the whole thing is the problem for JDI, but that's a discussion for another time.
LOL.
(Click "show previous posts")
.... “made by” is not a synonym for ‘developed by/with’. Of course there is Samsung technology within the display that Apple buys from Samsung, as there’d be LG or JD with their displays. They’re not exactly alike nor too different and I’m not expert in display panels. But if they can’t fulfill apples demanded specs it tells that their panel tech is behind Samsung, i.e. not as well developed.
I dont understand the saltiness, Apple didn’t develop the GPS chip, it buys chips and whatnot from Broadcom, mediatec, Texas instrument and intel and so on, how is the display different? No one spoke of iKnockoffs. Just speculated over what apple did with displays, since very likely panel is the same to note 10, but as I was earlier noted *display driver* likely is very different to Samsung’s solution which makes it even better than what Samsung had done with it.
Who even cares who makes and has developed individual parts since we can’t really twiddle with OS and the quality is maintained and Apple has the skills to take most out of them. In this case better screen package than Samsung has from their own panels.
I just found it funny how he tried to school me then agreed with me. OOPS!
"Me and few other posters were riminded about the hypocris on Androids side and how they're quick to claim Apple doesn't develop iPhone but instead puts other peoples parts together.
There was actually a dumb meme on Twitter that said: "iPhones display is better. iPhones display is made by Samsung so It's Android technology" Like how stupid can these people be?
Apple claims (and they have a fair number of OLED patents), that while their screens are made by Samsung, they include Apple technology. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it’s somewhat different than Samsung’s screens they use for themselves, and presumably from those they sell to others, rather than to Apple.
I’d guess the panel is as said Samsung made but the display processor that communicates with gpu is apple made processing unit. It handles all the color, brightness etc adjustments.
According to Displaymate’s tests of Apple’s new phone, they said that the LEDs in the screen are larger than anyone else’s screen. So they’re not the same as the Samsung at the design and manufacturing level. Not exactly anyway. So it’s more than just controllers, the screen itself is capable of higher brightness because of design.
Although I understand your underlying point of the screens having differences, are you sure you're not misquoting Displaymate? I ask because the closest thing I found that relates to your claim is this: "On the iPhone 11 Pro Max the resulting Sub-Pixel fill factor is much higher than other OLEDs, which is a key factor in providing the much higher Peak Luminance of over 770 nits." To be fair, the pages are information dense so I could have missed the section you're quoting in my quick skim.
To your underlying point, I think we can all agree there are subtle differences in the OLED panels - most likely due to customer specification. Galaxy panels are slightly different than iPhone panels are slightly different from the panels for OnePlus, etc. They're all good panels, coupled with each companies color science and processors, so you end up with great screens.
I think what makes Apples displays better is color accuracy.
Color accuracy for me, has been the most important factor since I got into display tech in 2004.
The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid. It's intentional and a choice. But Displaymate still says the Note 10 is a more color accurate screen. There are plenty more stats in the links, but they all pretty much tell the same tale. Data says Samsung screens are more color accurate.
That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
First, to clarify, color was my business for decades. I was instrumental in the early evolution of color standards, and my business, a commercial film lab was one of the first to adopt digital. So I get what’s happening here. Also, if you insist in talking about numbers, you need to add some context. When those numbers drop below specific levels, further improvement serves no purpose, as we can’t see them. Because of my business, and training, I can see differences that most people can’t, but even people in my position can’t see beyond certain points.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
These added with True Tone would definitely make Apples displays more color accurate than Sammy's. Thanks for the schooling.
Uhhhh, bud. I hate to be the one to tell you this but absolutely 100% of everything that you're claiming is wrong. The Note 10 has the same contrast ratio, higher full screen brightness, and a higher absolute color accuracy. True Tone distorts the accuracy of the color by altering the color temperature based on ambient light. You literally have no idea what you're talking about here.
melgross said: That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
First, to clarify, color was my business for decades. I was instrumental in the early evolution of color standards, and my business, a commercial film lab was one of the first to adopt digital. So I get what’s happening here. Also, if you insist in talking about numbers, you need to add some context. When those numbers drop below specific levels, further improvement serves no purpose, as we can’t see them. Because of my business, and training, I can see differences that most people can’t, but even people in my position can’t see beyond certain points.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
Highest Absolute Color Accuracy (0.9 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect. Note 10 (0.4 JNCD) VIFP - This is our point of contention. I am right.
Highest HDR Peak Brightness of 1,290 nits for standard HDR 20% APL, and 1,090 nits for Full Screen White with 100% APL. Note 10 (1,308 nits for Low APL)
Highest Visible Screen Resolution 2.7K (2688x1242) – 4K Does Not appear visually sharper on a Smartphone. Note 10 3K (3040x1440)
Your background is meaningless as it relates to this conversation. It does not lend credence to your claims. Nor does is refute mine. Now to reiterate my claim: Displaymate states that the Note 10 is the most color accurate screen. The records you're using as evidence is countered by Displaymate's Note 10 evidence. For convenience, I'll just put them beside the info for Apple. Again as I stated to AppleExposed and subsequently to you, Displaymate says the Note 10 has the most color accurate screen. None of your life experience changes that.
And your background is what, nothing? You quote things you don’t even understand.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Why question yourself. You were right. Samsung Galaxy Note 10 was the best. Displaymate just said so. http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note10_ShootOut_1G.htm Relevant excerpt: "...Galaxy Note10+ sets or matches 13 Smartphone Display Performance Records, earning DisplayMate’s highest ever A+ grade." You're living in a universe where Displaymate says the Samsung Galaxy was the best... then iPhone... then Galaxy... then iPhone... then Galaxy. For a number of years Displaymate said Apple had the best LCD display, but Samsung had the best overall display. Fast forward to Apple using Sammy panels and the Displaymate overall crown has seesawed back and forth between Apple's and Samsung's latest releases. If history is an indicator, it's pretty much assured the crown will pass back to Samsung in the spring when they release the S11 and back to Apple in the fall when they release the 12P and 12PM. The only mystery regarding the overall crown is whether Samsung will intro the Note before or after the iPhone. Whichever is last to be intro'd is the one that will hold the crown until the S13... wash, rinse, repeat.
That’s only partly correct. While it’s true that Apple uses panels manufactured by Samsung, at least with OLEDs, Apple has several dozen patents, and they claim that the OLED panels manufactured for them use Apple technology. Under a microscope, while Apple’s LED layout look similar to Samsung’s, there are differences. Considering that small visible differences can mean some different technology, I believe Apple’s claims. The fact that Apple’s latest displays are the brightest, and show larger LED sites, shows that they aren’t standard, off the shelf, Samsung panels.
samsung has now shown all of its latest devices, and Apple’s screens are on top. I’m sure that this will spur Samsung to attempt to equal, or move ahead, next year, and so will Apple.
What are you reading bud that makes you think my quote is partially correct? It's 100% correct. You're rebutting things in my quote that aren't actually in my quote. I made no claim of same panels so... not sure why you're presenting "evidence" that the panels aren't the same. Also Apple having OLED patents - several dozen or several thousand - is a meaningless data point that you keep mentioning. Having patents doesn't mean a company is using tech based on said patents. It's literal conversational fluff... unless you can substantiate usage of said patented tech. Instead of breaking down each of your claims, let me ask you this. You have any sources for those claims? What OLED tech is Apple using? How does their Diamond Pixel config differ? When did Apple actually make those claims? Brightest display? Hmmm. Displaymate says differently. Larger LED sites? What does that even mean.
To be clear, I am not questioning Apple or the quality of Apple's screens. They're obviously top notch screens (pun intended). I am questioning the accuracy of your claims. They seem to be unsupported guessing and wishful thinking. I'd love to read any links you have to substantiate, well any of that stuff.
What you’re trying to do is to minimize any of Apple’s input on the design and manufacturer of these displays with a dismissal of reality. When Apple publicly states that Apple technology is in the displays, you can be sure they’re not talking trash, particularly when they have the R&D and patents to go with it.
Doubting the veracity of your claims in no way, shape, or form minimizes Apple's input on the design and manufacturer of these displays. I was pretty clear about that. You seem to be attempting to equate your unsubstantiated opinions with actions of Apple. Please don't. I'm 100% sure Apple isn't talking trash. I'm pretty sure you are though.
CloudTalkin said: Your background is meaningless as it relates to this conversation. It does not lend credence to your claims. Nor does is refute mine. Now to reiterate my claim: Displaymate states that the Note 10 is the most color accurate screen. The records you're using as evidence is countered by Displaymate's Note 10 evidence. For convenience, I'll just put them beside the info for Apple. Again as I stated to AppleExposed and subsequently to you, Displaymate says the Note 10 has the most color accurate screen. None of your life experience changes that.
And your background is what, nothing? You quote things you don’t even understand.
My background, just like yours, is immaterial to the conversation. Either what you're saying is true or it's not. What we do for a living doesn't change the truth. Poor attempt at deflection.
Doubting the veracity of your claims in no way, shape, or form minimizes Apple's input on the design and manufacturer of these displays. I was pretty clear about that. You seem to be attempting to equate your unsubstantiated opinions with actions of Apple. Please don't. I'm 100% sure Apple isn't talking trash. I'm pretty sure you are though.
You sir, are what’s known as “full of it”.
Ah, there we go. You've given up trying to convince anyone of the truthfulness of your made up facts. About time. It was apparent very early on you had no sources to back the claims you put forth. Yet you kept persisting as if repetition would make the claims come true. Nah, bud.
These added with True Tone would definitely make Apples displays more color accurate than Sammy's. Thanks for the schooling.
Uhhhh, bud. I hate to be the one to tell you this but absolutely 100% of everything that you're claiming is wrong. The Note 10 has the same contrast ratio, higher full screen brightness, and a higher absolute color accuracy. True Tone distorts the accuracy of the color by altering the color temperature based on ambient light. You literally have no idea what you're talking about here.
Your head is in the clouds man.
So True Tone offers no PQ benefits? I wonder why Apple even bothered at all?
You do know these color accuracy/contrast ratio tests are done in pitch black rooms where even the paint is black? In reality we are not in these rooms but checking our iPhones from downtown in midday and in artificially lit classrooms. THIS is why True Tone is relevant.
Love the screen on my 11pro max. My first OLED screen. Very happy with it.
My coworker had a xs, I was surprised that the screen on it was much brighter than my 11 pro max. I guess between it being the smaller phone and the 11 is a new design.
melgross said: That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
First, to clarify, color was my business for decades. I was instrumental in the early evolution of color standards, and my business, a commercial film lab was one of the first to adopt digital. So I get what’s happening here. Also, if you insist in talking about numbers, you need to add some context. When those numbers drop below specific levels, further improvement serves no purpose, as we can’t see them. Because of my business, and training, I can see differences that most people can’t, but even people in my position can’t see beyond certain points.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
Highest Absolute Color Accuracy (0.9 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect. Note 10 (0.4 JNCD) VIFP - This is our point of contention. I am right.
Highest HDR Peak Brightness of 1,290 nits for standard HDR 20% APL, and 1,090 nits for Full Screen White with 100% APL. Note 10 (1,308 nits for Low APL)
Highest Visible Screen Resolution 2.7K (2688x1242) – 4K Does Not appear visually sharper on a Smartphone. Note 10 3K (3040x1440)
Your background is meaningless as it relates to this conversation. It does not lend credence to your claims. Nor does is refute mine. Now to reiterate my claim: Displaymate states that the Note 10 is the most color accurate screen. The records you're using as evidence is countered by Displaymate's Note 10 evidence. For convenience, I'll just put them beside the info for Apple. Again as I stated to AppleExposed and subsequently to you, Displaymate says the Note 10 has the most color accurate screen. None of your life experience changes that.
Even it does, <1 JNCD is indistinguishable, so other than spec-war, what else?
The better question to ask is "why" than "How is it". After all, they do give both displays the highest rating.
On top of that, I'm not sure whether to take the data too seriously. If you look at the S10, they're actually better in numbers. No way that the latest flagship is worse yet still receives the "best display ever" ranking isn't it?
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Just wait for the critics to remind us that Samsung makes these OLED screens for Apple. Those same critics also claim that Samsung keeps the top-of-the-line OLED screens for themselves and that’s why Apple OLED screens are inferior to Samsung’s own screens. Never mind the software powering those screens I guess.
I think Samsung is making them for the Pixel 4 too, and those just got the identical A+ "Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect" and best display-on-a-smartphone rating that the iPhone got. Bottom line I guess: Samsung makes a great display panel.
But, but, but.... I thought Samsung Galaxy was da best?????
What universe are we living in?
Congrats to Apple for aiming for top-quality.
Just wait for the critics to remind us that Samsung makes these OLED screens for Apple. Those same critics also claim that Samsung keeps the top-of-the-line OLED screens for themselves and that’s why Apple OLED screens are inferior to Samsung’s own screens. Never mind the software powering those screens I guess.
I think Samsung is making them for the Pixel 4 too, and those just got the identical A+ "Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect" and best display-on-a-smartphone rating that the iPhone got. Bottom line I guess: Samsung makes a great display panel.
A "Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect" is a pretty common phrase DisplayMate uses.
Comments
The problem that both Samsung and LG have is that, so far, neither seems to be able to land on the other’s turf. Samsung can’t seem to make LED tv screens, and so uses LG’s in their “real” OLED sets, while LG hasn’t been able, so far, to master making high quality small screens for phones and tablets.
and as I’ve said, Apple’s OLED screens are NOT identical to Samsung’s.
That’s not entirely true. And DisplayMate also said that the Apple Pro Max screen was the best one, so for whatever reason, that overall assessment is still the overriding evaluation.
To your underlying point, I think we can all agree there are subtle differences in the OLED panels - most likely due to customer specification. Galaxy panels are slightly different than iPhone panels are slightly different from the panels for OnePlus, etc. They're all good panels, coupled with each companies color science and processors, so you end up with great screens.
What do you mean that's not entirely true? There's nothing false or misleading in what I stated. @AppleExposed was specifically addressing color accuracy. My reply specifically addresses color accuracy. Your reply to me however, addresses an unrelated point. Neither of us were discussing the overall assessment.
To be clear, I am not questioning Apple or the quality of Apple's screens. They're obviously top notch screens (pun intended). I am questioning the accuracy of your claims. They seem to be unsupported guessing and wishful thinking. I'd love to read any links you have to substantiate, well any of that stuff.
so realistically, certain measurements lose meaning once the drop below those difference levels. Once that happens, other factors become more important, such as true brightness and consistency. So overall evaluations become more important than specific test results.
but, as noted in he evaluation, and this is from the DisplayMate page:
The iPhone 11 Pro Max matches or sets new Smartphone Display Performance Records for:
Note that Numerical Performance Differences that are Visually Indistinguishable are considered Matched and Tied Performance Records.
Highest Absolute Color Accuracy (0.9 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect.
Smallest Shift in Color Accuracy with the Image Content APL (0.3 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable From Perfect.
Highest Full Screen Brightness for OLED Smartphones (770 nits for 100% APL and 821 nits for 50% APL).
Highest Full Screen Contrast Rating in Ambient Light (171 at 100% APL).
Highest HDR Peak Brightness of 1,290 nits for standard HDR 20% APL, and 1,090 nits for Full Screen White with 100% APL.
Highest Contrast Ratio (Infinite).
Lowest Screen Reflectance (4.5 percent).
Smallest Brightness Variation with Viewing Angle (25% at 30 degrees).
Highest Visible Screen Resolution 2.7K (2688x1242) – 4K Does Not appear visually sharper on a Smartphone.
What you’re trying to do is to minimize any of Apple’s input on the design and manufacturer of these displays with a dismissal of reality. When Apple publicly states that Apple technology is in the displays, you can be sure they’re not talking trash, particularly when they have the R&D and patents to go with it.
Haven't tried the Note 10 so maybe Samsung had a change of heart? Apples TrueTone Display is unmatched and the reason color accuracy is beautiful on iPhone/iPad. Last Samsung I've seen were very very vivid.
"The over-saturation that you mention is in a mode called Vivid."
I'm not gonna argue that. The problem is, to the average Joe vivid colors look nicer. The grass is "greener" and the sky is "bluer".
Reviewers ready to sh** on Apple are quick to defend Samsungs saturated color explaining it takes better pictures for "memories" lol.
I just found it funny how he tried to school me then agreed with me. OOPS!
"Me and few other posters were riminded about the hypocris on Androids side and how they're quick to claim Apple doesn't develop iPhone but instead puts other peoples parts together.
There was actually a dumb meme on Twitter that said:
"iPhones display is better. iPhones display is made by Samsung so It's Android technology"
Like how stupid can these people be?
"4K Does Not appear visually sharper on a Smartphone."
I cannot believe in late 2019 we still have to teach people about resolution.
"Highest Contrast Ratio (Infinite)."
"Highest Full Screen Brightness for OLED Smartphones "
"Highest Absolute Color Accuracy "
These added with True Tone would definitely make Apples displays more color accurate than Sammy's. Thanks for the schooling.
You sir, are what’s known as “full of it”.
melgross said: Ah, there we go. You've given up trying to convince anyone of the truthfulness of your made up facts. About time. It was apparent very early on you had no sources to back the claims you put forth. Yet you kept persisting as if repetition would make the claims come true. Nah, bud.
Your head is in the clouds man.
So True Tone offers no PQ benefits? I wonder why Apple even bothered at all?
You do know these color accuracy/contrast ratio tests are done in pitch black rooms where even the paint is black? In reality we are not in these rooms but checking our iPhones from downtown in midday and in artificially lit classrooms. THIS is why True Tone is relevant.
The better question to ask is "why" than "How is it". After all, they do give both displays the highest rating.