Apple's Cook addresses App Store monopoly, Apple TV+ launch, iPhone 11 in interview

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  • Reply 21 of 40
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    urahara said:
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    As a developer myself, it just irks me how other app developers are whining about Apple's curated App Store.  Look at the cesspool that is Android and it's easy to see why Apple has NOT adopted such an open model.  I find it hard to believe that any app developer worth their weight would complain about Apple's App Store and its policies.  They were probably still in diapers when the "old" way of marketing one's own software independently and hoping that marketing would be enough to actually sell it, and in any decent quantity to make a profit.

    Apple makes a lot of money for developers.  If you're not making much - or any - money, it probably has something to do with your app being crap, and not Apple.  The ability to make an app and have it available to hundreds of millions of people with little to no effort by the developer still amazes me to this day.  There is no way I would ever want to go back to the "old days" of going to CompUSA and buying software in big boxes.

    Whiners should just go to Android if they want the Wild West.  I'm happy Apple keeps the store to themselves.  To open it up to 3rd party stores would open the iPhone to the limitless security problems that is Android.

    No thank you.
    The issue is not a curated app store. Apple can have that without question from anyone.

    The issue is if Apple's store should be the only store on iOS devices.

    We'll see how the different investigations come down on that question. It isn't a given that they will rule against Apple but the question needs to be asked and answered at a 'competition' level.
    And what versions of the apps will those stores sell?
    Who would check and make sure that those apps are secure and have e.g. no viruses?
    The confusion is between quality control and who has access to the markup. To answer your questions, the version Apple requires, and Apple. Apple can maintain control over the quality and version of apps without being the only one who can sell them. The current situation is like a car maker only allowing its cars to be sold by one dealer, which it owns, and people asking if other resellers were allowed to sell them, who would guarantee the quality?
  • Reply 22 of 40
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    avon b7 said:
    Cook didn't deal with the App Store monopoly issue. He skirted it.

    The question is not that Apple offers this or that and users can get content that Apple doesn't offer via a web browser.

    The question is that there is no other App Store and Apple is therefore the only one taking a cut, deciding what the cut is and deciding what is allowed and what isn't. On top of that, it is competing in the store with its own apps. The proportion of those apps is irrelevant.

    Maybe he had a beer too many but if these are his arguments, they don't hold much water.
    Nope, he answered the question clearly and directly.

    You do have other AppStores. You just have to use another OS. You don't like the AppStore, move to Android. As @Revenant put it so well above, if you bought a Mercedes you can't put non Mercedes approved software on it. You want to put the Ford engine management package on it, get a Ford. You want to hack your Blaupunkt audio system to run Alexa, you can't. Get a speaker from Amazon.

    As far as competing with its own apps, no duh. Target has a house brand. so does Safeway, Albertsons, Walmart, The Bay, Macy's and every other major retailer. As far as them preferentially placing their apps, I sure as heck don't see it. The last time I searched for Pages or Numbers what I found was a page or two of other people's Apps, everything from templates for use with Pages or Numbers, to How To guides, to Office365 and other actual competitors. Searching the store for a particular App, be it Pagers or Final Cut Pro, does not automatically put it at the top of the first page. Heck I've found this even if I search for it by name.
    edited October 2019 watto_cobratmayjony0
  • Reply 23 of 40
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member

    "We always try to keep our prices as low as possible and fortunately we were able to lower the price of the iPhone this year," he said."

    Why do iHaters have an excruciatingly tough time understanding this?
    Because they heard Phil Schiller boast a few years ago that with iPhone prices, “We have 30% of the market and 70% of the profits”.
  • Reply 24 of 40
    did he mention how amazing carpool kareoke is? LOL 
  • Reply 25 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    did he mention how amazing carpool kareoke is? LOL 
    Three AI comments total, all about Carpool Karaoke. 

    You obsess much?

    LOL!!!
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    gilly33gilly33 Posts: 433member
    avon b7 said:
    Cook didn't deal with the App Store monopoly issue. He skirted it.

    The question is not that Apple offers this or that and users can get content that Apple doesn't offer via a web browser.

    The question is that there is no other App Store and Apple is therefore the only one taking a cut, deciding what the cut is and deciding what is allowed and what isn't. On top of that, it is competing in the store with its own apps. The proportion of those apps is irrelevant.

    Maybe he had a beer too many but if these are his arguments, they don't hold much water.
    Let me ask you. How is that any different than what brick and mortar stores like Walmart do? They build the store they ‘rent’ shelf space to other brands. They also have they own brand that directly compete with the brands they are renting to. Happens all over retail. Yeah you might say that 30% is too steep but the model makes good business sense. I build the store I set the store rules. 
    mike1StrangeDayswatto_cobratmayjony0
  • Reply 27 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    urahara said:
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    As a developer myself, it just irks me how other app developers are whining about Apple's curated App Store.  Look at the cesspool that is Android and it's easy to see why Apple has NOT adopted such an open model.  I find it hard to believe that any app developer worth their weight would complain about Apple's App Store and its policies.  They were probably still in diapers when the "old" way of marketing one's own software independently and hoping that marketing would be enough to actually sell it, and in any decent quantity to make a profit.

    Apple makes a lot of money for developers.  If you're not making much - or any - money, it probably has something to do with your app being crap, and not Apple.  The ability to make an app and have it available to hundreds of millions of people with little to no effort by the developer still amazes me to this day.  There is no way I would ever want to go back to the "old days" of going to CompUSA and buying software in big boxes.

    Whiners should just go to Android if they want the Wild West.  I'm happy Apple keeps the store to themselves.  To open it up to 3rd party stores would open the iPhone to the limitless security problems that is Android.

    No thank you.
    The issue is not a curated app store. Apple can have that without question from anyone.

    The issue is if Apple's store should be the only store on iOS devices.

    We'll see how the different investigations come down on that question. It isn't a given that they will rule against Apple but the question needs to be asked and answered at a 'competition' level.
    And what versions of the apps will those stores sell?
    Who would check and make sure that those apps are secure and have e.g. no viruses?
    1. The same apps currently available plus those not allowed by Apple. The amount of apps would depend on the store being able to attract developers.

    2. The store.
  • Reply 28 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    avon b7 said:
    Cook didn't deal with the App Store monopoly issue. He skirted it.

    The question is not that Apple offers this or that and users can get content that Apple doesn't offer via a web browser.

    The question is that there is no other App Store and Apple is therefore the only one taking a cut, deciding what the cut is and deciding what is allowed and what isn't. On top of that, it is competing in the store with its own apps. The proportion of those apps is irrelevant.

    Maybe he had a beer too many but if these are his arguments, they don't hold much water.
    Surely you would argue that the EU has a monopoly market, with monopoly regulation, and for that, the UK voted to leave, and now Brexit is a steaming, wet, turd. But the UK now has a wide array of market options available to them. How's that actually working out, and what will it look like 10 and 20 years hence? Meanwhile, the lesser members of the EU are all hot for the BRI; good luck on working with the Chinese.

    Oftentimes, the benefits of a standardized, curated market massively outweigh the desire of the few for a variety of more "open" alternatives.

    As for Tim Cook, I'm certain that he said exactly as much as he needed to about the so called "monopoly".

    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 29 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    As a developer myself, it just irks me how other app developers are whining about Apple's curated App Store.  Look at the cesspool that is Android and it's easy to see why Apple has NOT adopted such an open model.  I find it hard to believe that any app developer worth their weight would complain about Apple's App Store and its policies.  They were probably still in diapers when the "old" way of marketing one's own software independently and hoping that marketing would be enough to actually sell it, and in any decent quantity to make a profit.

    Apple makes a lot of money for developers.  If you're not making much - or any - money, it probably has something to do with your app being crap, and not Apple.  The ability to make an app and have it available to hundreds of millions of people with little to no effort by the developer still amazes me to this day.  There is no way I would ever want to go back to the "old days" of going to CompUSA and buying software in big boxes.

    Whiners should just go to Android if they want the Wild West.  I'm happy Apple keeps the store to themselves.  To open it up to 3rd party stores would open the iPhone to the limitless security problems that is Android.

    No thank you.
    The issue is not a curated app store. Apple can have that without question from anyone.

    The issue is if Apple's store should be the only store on iOS devices.

    We'll see how the different investigations come down on that question. It isn't a given that they will rule against Apple but the question needs to be asked and answered at a 'competition' level.
    So if there were other app stores who would oversee them and maintain quality? Would the apps there be following the same developer guidelines and using the same API’s as Apple’s App Store? Would developers be selling apps in both stores? Do Google and Microsoft allow other stores on their platforms? Or is the other store the ability to download directly from the web?

    Apple just announced they’re going to allow competing messaging apps to be the default with Siri. I suspect that will happen with audio apps soon too. And I’ll bet within the next year or two Apple will allow users to set default apps. If they do all that I think the complaints about the App Store will fade away. 
    The store would vet apps. Apps would still be built to iOS requirements. Google allows for third party app stores. I have two app stores on my phone (the Play Store and the App Gallery).

    The complaints going away is possibly a little late now as there are already cases being looked into. It's possible that Apple's change in direction is a direct result of some of the complaints.

    Bodies like the EU don't need complaints to act but when they receive them they evaluate the situation. Even without a formal complaint they could decide to investigate in the interest of competition.
  • Reply 30 of 40
    mobirdmobird Posts: 752member
    revenant said:
    mobird said:
    revenant said:
    Mercedes does not let anyone make software for their instrument clusters or infotainment system (not when I was working for them--last year in 2012). There are other cars to choose from, just like there are other phones. Mercedes is protecting their product and how people view their products by not letting in just any old software, same with apple. No one is forcing developers to write for apple.
    Checking my calendar, it shows that we are currently in the year 2019 and last year was 2018.
    Did you cut, copy, and paste?
    “When I was working for them” the “last year in 2012” past tense; I have moved on from that company. One could not install their own software the without voiding everything then, one cannot do it now. This is normal English, though I suppose I could have been a little more clearer I did not see this as being vague as I make it clear “then” and “now”. 
    OK, my apologies for misunderstanding.
    revenantwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 40
    avon b7 said:
    Cook didn't deal with the App Store monopoly issue. He skirted it.

    The question is not that Apple offers this or that and users can get content that Apple doesn't offer via a web browser.

    The question is that there is no other App Store and Apple is therefore the only one taking a cut, deciding what the cut is and deciding what is allowed and what isn't. On top of that, it is competing in the store with its own apps. The proportion of those apps is irrelevant.

    Maybe he had a beer too many but if these are his arguments, they don't hold much water.
    Fortunately, that's not for you to decide so rant away!  A business model is not the same as a monopoly.  Get over it.
    tmayStrangeDayswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 32 of 40
    mygig said:
    So can he explain why the iPhone 11 is 50$ cheaper in US and barely cheaper in EU or more specifically, 7€ cheaper in Slovenia?
    Could it be the cost of doing business in Europe is much higher than elsewhere due to stifling regulations, fines, lawsuits and countless EU busybodies?

    tmaycat52watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 33 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    sarthos said:
    avon b7 said:
    Cook didn't deal with the App Store monopoly issue. He skirted it.

    The question is not that Apple offers this or that and users can get content that Apple doesn't offer via a web browser.

    The question is that there is no other App Store and Apple is therefore the only one taking a cut, deciding what the cut is and deciding what is allowed and what isn't. On top of that, it is competing in the store with its own apps. The proportion of those apps is irrelevant.

    Maybe he had a beer too many but if these are his arguments, they don't hold much water.
    Fortunately, that's not for you to decide so rant away!  A business model is not the same as a monopoly.  Get over it.
    I'm not deciding on the business model. Where did you get that from? I rarely rant either.

    A business model is for the company to decide - but only up to a point. Beyond that, It has no say. Just look at all the companies that have already been hit precisely because of their business models.

    Cook skirted this issue.  There is a formal complaint (more than one I believe) on the table. Believe me, they are not looking at what is, or isn't available via a web browser. They are looking at things Cook didn't cover in his reply because he skirted it.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,834member
    Man I wish I had enough time in my day to camp out on a website for a company whose products I don’t own or use and heckle their designs and business model all day. 
    tmaycornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 40
    tmay said:
    did he mention how amazing carpool kareoke is? LOL 
    Three AI comments total, all about Carpool Karaoke. 

    You obsess much?

    LOL!!!
    Nah. Seems that way tho i agree. Its just sh-it 
  • Reply 36 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    Man I wish I had enough time in my day to camp out on a website for a company whose products I don’t own or use and heckle their designs and business model all day. 
    Except for iPads, MBPs, MBA, iMac, plus the iPhone XR (wife) plus Time Capsules, Apple TV and a host of other stuff but most importantly Cook skirted the question!

    If you think he didn't, now is your moment to point out where he tackled it head on.

    Of course that won't happen because you know full well I am right and if I was wrong you would have kindly pointed that out already.

    This kind of skirting doesn't irk me because it's Apple. It irks me whoever it comes from. I understand why they do it but they don't get a pass from me for it. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 40
    mobird said:
    revenant said:
    Mercedes does not let anyone make software for their instrument clusters or infotainment system (not when I was working for them--last year in 2012). .
    Checking my calendar, it shows that we are currently in the year 2019 and last year was 2018.
    Did you cut, copy, and paste?
    I took this to be that 'their' last year with company was in 2012
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    avon b7 said:
    Man I wish I had enough time in my day to camp out on a website for a company whose products I don’t own or use and heckle their designs and business model all day. 
    Except for iPads, MBPs, MBA, iMac, plus the iPhone XR (wife) plus Time Capsules, Apple TV and a host of other stuff but most importantly Cook skirted the question!

    If you think he didn't, now is your moment to point out where he tackled it head on.

    Of course that won't happen because you know full well I am right and if I was wrong you would have kindly pointed that out already.

    This kind of skirting doesn't irk me because it's Apple. It irks me whoever it comes from. I understand why they do it but they don't get a pass from me for it. 
    Oh fuck off.

    With the exception of your wife's XR, which she chose btw, all of your Apple equipment is, how shall I say, less than current.

    We've seen you defend Samsung when their first shitpile folding phone failed, and when Huawei waffled multiple time on their Mate X, which for the record still isn't released, and I've seen you expound on Huawei's Android OS alternative, which is definitely not ready for prime-time. I'm sure I could find more examples.

    You have a pattern of holding Apple to a much higher standard than any Android OS device maker, and that goes for their corporate officers as well. Get your head out of Huawei's ass.
  • Reply 39 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Man I wish I had enough time in my day to camp out on a website for a company whose products I don’t own or use and heckle their designs and business model all day. 
    Except for iPads, MBPs, MBA, iMac, plus the iPhone XR (wife) plus Time Capsules, Apple TV and a host of other stuff but most importantly Cook skirted the question!

    If you think he didn't, now is your moment to point out where he tackled it head on.

    Of course that won't happen because you know full well I am right and if I was wrong you would have kindly pointed that out already.

    This kind of skirting doesn't irk me because it's Apple. It irks me whoever it comes from. I understand why they do it but they don't get a pass from me for it. 
    Oh fuck off.

    With the exception of your wife's XR, which she chose btw, all of your Apple equipment is, how shall I say, less than current.

    We've seen you defend Samsung when their first shitpile folding phone failed, and when Huawei waffled multiple time on their Mate X, which for the record still isn't released, and I've seen you expound on Huawei's Android OS alternative, which is definitely not ready for prime-time. I'm sure I could find more examples.

    You have a pattern of holding Apple to a much higher standard than any Android OS device maker, and that goes for their corporate officers as well. Get your head out of Huawei's ass.
    Nice opening! LOL

    My standards are applied fairly. For both Samsung and Huawei folding phones I said we should wait until they reach the market before drawing absolute conclusions. In your head that's defending them. As you will. As for the delays, I pointed out what company executives had gone on record as saying AND provided links to the quotes. When I've speculated, I've made that clear, and what do you know! I've been right. 

    My Apple gear is not current. I have a lot and a lot more I didn't mention. Why isn't it current? Because my standards won't let me buy something that doesn't fit my requirements. I'm not going to bend over for Apple. I'll sit it out until things change, thank you very much and if things don't change I'll do exactly what I did with the iPhone. Find something that does suit me.

    What I'm not going to do is listen to people who insistently tell me things are dead, gone or won't change because they've been wrong far too often. I mean completely, utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

    I see that you also have nothing to challenge what I pointed out either. Should that surprise me?

    As far as HarmonyOS is concerned. It is at version 1. It is shipping on products NOW. That's prime time in anybody's book. I have seen the roadmap. It is ambitious and a new take on decoupled OS, virtualised hardware AND open source (or soon will be). It's clear that you have already forgotten Apple's OSX fist release. If you haven't you will agree it wasn't ready for prime time.

    Some elements of HarmonyOS are already sitting on ANDROID phones and watches as well as the full system on Smart Screens.
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 40 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Man I wish I had enough time in my day to camp out on a website for a company whose products I don’t own or use and heckle their designs and business model all day. 
    Except for iPads, MBPs, MBA, iMac, plus the iPhone XR (wife) plus Time Capsules, Apple TV and a host of other stuff but most importantly Cook skirted the question!

    If you think he didn't, now is your moment to point out where he tackled it head on.

    Of course that won't happen because you know full well I am right and if I was wrong you would have kindly pointed that out already.

    This kind of skirting doesn't irk me because it's Apple. It irks me whoever it comes from. I understand why they do it but they don't get a pass from me for it. 
    Oh fuck off.

    With the exception of your wife's XR, which she chose btw, all of your Apple equipment is, how shall I say, less than current.

    We've seen you defend Samsung when their first shitpile folding phone failed, and when Huawei waffled multiple time on their Mate X, which for the record still isn't released, and I've seen you expound on Huawei's Android OS alternative, which is definitely not ready for prime-time. I'm sure I could find more examples.

    You have a pattern of holding Apple to a much higher standard than any Android OS device maker, and that goes for their corporate officers as well. Get your head out of Huawei's ass.
    Nice opening! LOL

    My standards are applied fairly. For both Samsung and Huawei folding phones I said we should wait until they reach the market before drawing absolute conclusions. In your head that's defending them. As you will. As for the delays, I pointed out what company executives had gone on record as saying AND provided links to the quotes. When I've speculated, I've made that clear, and what do you know! I've been right. 

    My Apple gear is not current. I have a lot and a lot more I didn't mention. Why isn't it current? Because my standards won't let me buy something that doesn't fit my requirements. I'm not going to bend over for Apple. I'll sit it out until things change, thank you very much and if things don't change I'll do exactly what I did with the iPhone. Find something that does suit me.

    What I'm not going to do is listen to people who insistently tell me things are dead, gone or won't change because they've been wrong far too often. I mean completely, utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

    I see that you also have nothing to challenge what I pointed out either. Should that surprise me?

    As far as HarmonyOS is concerned. It is at version 1. It is shipping on products NOW. That's prime time in anybody's book. I have seen the roadmap. It is ambitious and a new take on decoupled OS, virtualised hardware AND open source (or soon will be). It's clear that you have already forgotten Apple's OSX fist release. If you haven't you will agree it wasn't ready for prime time.

    Some elements of HarmonyOS are already sitting on ANDROID phones and watches as well as the full system on Smart Screens.
    Harmony OS. 

    https://www.gizchina.com/2019/09/10/ren-zhengfei-harmony-os-is-not-ready-for-smartphones/

    "Ren Zhengfei reiterated that the Harmony OS is characterized by low latency. It is mainly for industrial control, automatic control, automatic driving, car networking, and other systems. Devices such as smartwatches, 8K smart TVs and other terminal products will easily use this system. For mobile phones, it is impossible to build a reasonable ecosystem in a short period of time.

    At the IFA2019 exhibition, Yu Chengdong said that Harmony OS can work on a smartphone presently but the company is not giving it any priority. Huawei has always stated that it remains loyal to Google and will use the Android system if available. However, if Google does not release its services to Huawei, the Huawei P40 series scheduled for March next year may become the first mobile phone with the Harmony OS."

    Yeah, it's "ready" only if your head is up Huawei's ass.

    As for OSX, yeah, I do remember the first release, some 19 years ago, and since everything that Apple has built since then is derived from OSX, it's a pretty impressive accomplishment.


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