Microsoft takes on AirPods with $249 Surface Earbuds

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    dr. xdr. x Posts: 278member
    foljs said:
    So, no noise cancelling?

    If Apple indeed comes out next month (as expected by some analyst) with Airpods 3, improved from Airpods 2 AND with noise cancelling (like Sony already has), these are next to useless...

    But even if Apple doesn't add noise cancelling to Airpods 3, these MS earbuds are still just as much (or more) expensive that the current Airpods 2, and offer nothing especially compelling -- perhaps battery life.

    @foljs it looks like noise cancelling is indeed coming as an icon for it was discovered in iOS 13.2 beta.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 38
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,256member
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    edited October 2019 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 38
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 410member
    matrix077 said:
    navigating slides is ridiculous but, presumably, the buttons can be programmed for more useful things.

    most conspicuously, microsoft are bold to price these at $249.  wow.
    And haters are crying AirPods are too expensive lol.

    I always take my AirPods out by grabbing its stems. This looks kind of awkward to put in and take out. And I suppose in the case you’ll push for them to pop?
    No, pinch both nostrils and blow hard through nose.
    fastasleepphilboogiewatto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 24 of 38
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,430member
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
  • Reply 25 of 38
    2oh12oh1 Posts: 503member
    I keep waiting for Microsoft to rename itself Pleap.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 38
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,073member
    DrumHead said:
    Microsoft passes on the name Zune Buds?
    These will probably sell as many as the Zune.   They certainly aren't chasing Market share at that price.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 38
  • Reply 29 of 38
    mocsegmocseg Posts: 86member
    Carnage said:
    " We invented the rounded rectangle."
    Apple
  • Reply 30 of 38
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,256member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    Of course it's not nonsense nor absurd. Prior to recent history, no one would have any reason to believe Microsoft or Samsung would release wireless earbuds. It's never been in their wheelhouse as computer companies. Apple showed the way.

    Just like they did to your Chinese knockoffs, who shamelessly copied everything they could. As always. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 38
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,256member

    mocseg said:
    Carnage said:
    " We invented the rounded rectangle."
    Apple
    Really? Can you send a link where they say that? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 38
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,518member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    edited October 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 38
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,430member
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    You are straying away from earbuds and into 'everything'.

    This is about earbuds and, as has been said further up, Apple wasn't even first with the truly wireless earbuds. The issues involved in making a good pair of earbuds don't even have to be 'groundbreaking'. They simply have to overcome a set of issues that everybody faced and were very aware of. In the case of Apple, they went for a self designed chip to resolve some of (but not all) of those issues.

    Clearly cost is a factor in how well you can get around shortcomings. That isn't a factor for Apple but it is for many companies making wireless earbuds, but having said that, Apple hasn't implemented noise cancellation on AirPods while others have on their products, so having the money isn't the solution for everything. They have also very probably been waiting for Bluetooth to evolve too (like everyone else).

    There are things Apple hasn't done that others have. That's how things go.

    As solutions become 'industry solutions', they become off-the-shelf parts and widely available (and cheaper).

    In the case of 'groundbreaking' in a wider sense, this is a narrow minded view as it is being applied to a CE company. It is false to say other companies aren't producing groundbreaking products. They are. Both in CE and far beyond. And lots of them.

    That people don't see that and claim Apple is the R&D department for everyone else is simply being blind to reality.

    Look no further than the latest iPhones. Most of the tentpole features have been on competing phones for a very long time. That doesn't stop people from making crazy claims though.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 38
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,518member
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    You are straying away from earbuds and into 'everything'.

    This is about earbuds and, as has been said further up, Apple wasn't even first with the truly wireless earbuds. The issues involved in making a good pair of earbuds don't even have to be 'groundbreaking'. They simply have to overcome a set of issues that everybody faced and were very aware of. In the case of Apple, they went for a self designed chip to resolve some of (but not all) of those issues.

    Clearly cost is a factor in how well you can get around shortcomings. That isn't a factor for Apple but it is for many companies making wireless earbuds, but having said that, Apple hasn't implemented noise cancellation on AirPods while others have on their products, so having the money isn't the solution for everything. They have also very probably been waiting for Bluetooth to evolve too (like everyone else).

    There are things Apple hasn't done that others have. That's how things go.

    As solutions become 'industry solutions', they become off-the-shelf parts and widely available (and cheaper).

    In the case of 'groundbreaking' in a wider sense, this is a narrow minded view as it is being applied to a CE company. It is false to say other companies aren't producing groundbreaking products. They are. Both in CE and far beyond. And lots of them.

    That people don't see that and claim Apple is the R&D department for everyone else is simply being blind to reality.

    Look no further than the latest iPhones. Most of the tentpole features have been on competing phones for a very long time. That doesn't stop people from making crazy claims though.

    Anything which has ever been created in the history of man can be reduced down to simply being a few evolutionary steps beyond what came before.  But to do that dismisses the true "leaps" that come from minds which see things differently from the rest.  There are people who could work on a problem for 1000 years and never make those leaps of insight.  But those same people will declare it to be "obvious" when they finally see it.

    I mean, I could reduce the creation of the original iPhone down to simply putting together off-the-shelf components in a different way.  But there's no doubt in my mind that it was a "leap" from everything which came before it, even phones which already had touchscreens.  There's a lot more to it than simply waiting for standards and component manufacturers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 38
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,518member

    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    You are straying away from earbuds and into 'everything'.

    Absolutely.  Because this dismissal of unique ideas truly does happen with everything.  Maybe AirPods weren't the biggest leap in technology, but regardless, I had never experienced wireless headphones which worked as well as they did before.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 38
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,518member

    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    In the case of 'groundbreaking' in a wider sense, this is a narrow minded view as it is being applied to a CE company. It is false to say other companies aren't producing groundbreaking products. They are. Both in CE and far beyond. And lots of them.
    I never said Apple was the only company doing groundbreaking things in any industry.  Lol.  Just that, in the industries & markets where Apple competes, I don't see many truly great products coming from their competitors.  Some competitors might be first to market with a new product, but it almost always feels rushed and haphazard.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 38
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,430member
    auxio said:

    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    You are straying away from earbuds and into 'everything'.

    Absolutely.  Because this dismissal of unique ideas truly does happen with everything.  Maybe AirPods weren't the biggest leap in technology, but regardless, I had never experienced wireless headphones which worked as well as they did before.
    I think they are great too even though I can't use them. But that doesn't mean no one else was working on resolving the exact same issues and Apple showed them the way. Much less that Apple is the world's R&D department.

    There are relatively few truly 'unique' ideas that are game changing. Perhaps the implementation of those ideas is more relevant but implementations are improved upon over time and not necessarily by the same players. In fact that is often used in examples by people that make those wild R&D claims. It's ironic that they want to have their cake and eat it. One the one hand everyone is feeding off Apple's ideas but on the other, how many times have you heard the same people claim that Apple didn't have the idea or the technology but they made it better (or 'did it right').

    The reality is that for ideas, they are unlimited. Implementing them depends on many, many factors and not all the pieces always align on time. Sometimes they have to sit around before they can be brought to market.

    Here's a non CE example:

    Three elements. A car. A traffic light. A pedestrian.

    Three seemingly independent elements

    We can fill all three with sensors but they would still be independent of each other. To truly connect the dots something else is needed. In this case 5G. (Just like the AirPods need Bluetooth). If the traffic light can detect a person crossing the road, 'see an accident about to happen' and communicate the situation to the car, for the car to avoid hitting the pedestrian, 'decisions' need to be taken and implemented at lightning speed. All without the humans having much say in the process. Therefore latency is a key factor too. Just as it is on the AirPods. The latest Bluetooth version will improve latency on earbuds.

    I have seen a demo of the situation I just described. AI can even be used to 'see' and identify different objects. The problem is that the elements needed aren't widely available yet, even though the idea has already moved so far along the line that it is simply waiting for the those elements fall into place.

    You can get a headstart on some things by bringing custom solutions to market. That is what Apple did for a couple of issues. Other manufacturers have done the same. Bone Voice ID would be another example. using bone conduct biometric information to identify the user, for example. I have already mentioned active noise cancellation (which can be implemented on open or closed fit earbuds) and what about taking noise cancellation a step further and instead of having one, two or three levels of blanket reduction, what if you could choose the noise you want to cancel based on your own hearing and what distracts you.

    That is being attempted right now.
  • Reply 38 of 38
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,518member
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:

    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    crowley said:
    MacPro said:
    Apple, the tech world's R&D department.
    More like the tech world's marketing department. Wireless buds existed before Apple "invented" them but no one was buying them.
    WRONG...

    Truly wireless ear buds, aka ones that didn't have a stupid cable that connected between the two of them, did not exist before AirPods. Those were the first truly WIRELESS ear buds, and they sound amazing to boot.
    Not true, and a simple google search would tell you that.
    And did you ever use any of these?  I tried a few and the pairing process was cumbersome + the sound quality wasn't very good due to Bluetooth limitations.  Apple's R&D is very much a factor here because they'll iterate on an idea until it's done right.  Just inventing something new isn't enough, you need to actually care about the details which make for a great experience.  Contrary to what the head-up-their-technical-details crowd believes, it's not just marketing which makes a product a success.
    Also, it is way off the mark to say the industry is following Apple in this case.

    ALL of the issues the AirPods solve are common issues to truly wireless earbuds. There is nothing other companies weren't aware of or planning to tackle. In fact some issues remain, like them being virtually disposable devices.

    Apple releasing the AirPods didn't suddenly key the industry in on how to tackle those issues. What Apple basically did was develop a custom chip to remedy certain aspects.

    No it isn't. Apple bet big on wireless buds and it paid off. They weren't a speciality headphone company, they're a mass consumer brand. The bet paid off, so now we see other device brands, like Microsoft and Samsung, getting in on the action.

    Saying that other companies "were planning" on doing the same is a stretch. First, because you have no idea. Second, because by that logic no credit should ever be given to prime movers because at some point in future history somebody would have done the same. Okay....

    Yeah, Apple definitely did key in the industry on how to do these things correctly. Had they not done a custom chip to improve BT suckage the industry very likely could and would maintain status quo on BT suckage. 

    Also, your post is rich considering your Chinese knockoff brand immediately copied AirPods with these gems:


    No, sir, no Apple leading the way here... (Hint: the fact of Apple leading the way is why your knockoff CEO said Apple is "the master", to which they are the student)
    As you often say, 'nonsense!'

    Every company on the planet with even a passing interest in truly wireless earbuds was aware of the issues involved. They are universal to the problem.

    That is completely and undeniably the case. To even suggest they weren't working on resolving those problems (and others like open fit noise cancellation, bone conduct ID, specialised AI processors) etc is literally absurd.

    Of course there were things that even Apple couldn't do because it was waiting on improvements from the industry (high bandwidth Bluetooth for example). That is now here and available on competing products so I imagine that if AirPods 3 appear this month, they will have that.
    So why aren't all these companies which know exactly what to do releasing any groundbreaking products?

    I see this all the time in the tech industry, where people proclaim something to be completely obvious after the fact.  That it was just something inevitable.  It's kind of like the kids in school who just innately copy from others without even realizing they're doing it.  They seem to either lack the level of awareness in their brain which allows them to see it, or they willfully ignore it because it's too painful to face up to their own limitations.
    You are straying away from earbuds and into 'everything'.

    Absolutely.  Because this dismissal of unique ideas truly does happen with everything.  Maybe AirPods weren't the biggest leap in technology, but regardless, I had never experienced wireless headphones which worked as well as they did before.
    I think they are great too even though I can't use them. But that doesn't mean no one else was working on resolving the exact same issues and Apple showed them the way. Much less that Apple is the world's R&D department.

    There are relatively few truly 'unique' ideas that are game changing. Perhaps the implementation of those ideas is more relevant but implementations are improved upon over time and not necessarily by the same players. In fact that is often used in examples by people that make those wild R&D claims. It's ironic that they want to have their cake and eat it. One the one hand everyone is feeding off Apple's ideas but on the other, how many times have you heard the same people claim that Apple didn't have the idea or the technology but they made it better (or 'did it right').

    The reality is that for ideas, they are unlimited. Implementing them depends on many, many factors and not all the pieces always align on time. Sometimes they have to sit around before they can be brought to market.

    Here's a non CE example:

    Three elements. A car. A traffic light. A pedestrian.

    Three seemingly independent elements

    We can fill all three with sensors but they would still be independent of each other. To truly connect the dots something else is needed. In this case 5G. (Just like the AirPods need Bluetooth). If the traffic light can detect a person crossing the road, 'see an accident about to happen' and communicate the situation to the car, for the car to avoid hitting the pedestrian, 'decisions' need to be taken and implemented at lightning speed. All without the humans having much say in the process. Therefore latency is a key factor too. Just as it is on the AirPods. The latest Bluetooth version will improve latency on earbuds.

    I have seen a demo of the situation I just described. AI can even be used to 'see' and identify different objects. The problem is that the elements needed aren't widely available yet, even though the idea has already moved so far along the line that it is simply waiting for the those elements fall into place.

    You can get a headstart on some things by bringing custom solutions to market. That is what Apple did for a couple of issues. Other manufacturers have done the same. Bone Voice ID would be another example. using bone conduct biometric information to identify the user, for example. I have already mentioned active noise cancellation (which can be implemented on open or closed fit earbuds) and what about taking noise cancellation a step further and instead of having one, two or three levels of blanket reduction, what if you could choose the noise you want to cancel based on your own hearing and what distracts you.

    That is being attempted right now.
    I get it.  You see all the technical details of a given problem.  What I'm saying is that sometimes the framing of the problem itself is wrong, and that, by looking at it in a different way, you come up with a far more elegant solution.  The new solution might not even require new/advanced technology, just a unique way to apply existing technology.  These types of insights/leaps are often dismissed by those who only see value in highly technical solutions.  But they're often the difference between a good product and a great product.  When I look at the details of the products Apple creates, I see those little leaps of insight which I don't often see in other products.

    Since someone mentioned rounded rectangles in this discussion, I'll add an anecdote which is related to my point of seeing things in a different way.

    edited October 2019 watto_cobra
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