Microsoft reveals ARM Surface Pro X, Intel Surface Pro 7, AMD Surface Laptop 3

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 50
    KITAKITA Posts: 392member
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    He's not wrong.

    The MacBook Air uses a 7 W 14nm i5-8210Y (2 cores / 4 threads, 3.6 GHz turbo) with UHD 617 graphics and LPDDR3-2133 RAM.

    The base model 13.5" Surface Laptop 3 uses a 15 W 10nm i5-1035G7 (4 cores / 8 threads, 3.7 GHz turbo) with Iris Plus G7 graphics and LPDDR4x-3733 RAM.
    Performance claims from manufacturers often are misleading.  Pick the best sample/benchmark/environment comparing to the worst of your competitor surely makes a huge difference.  Ice Lake isn't that different in terms of IPC than that 8th-gen, so I doubt it can do 3X more.

    Besides, 8210Y is already one year old, where Ice Lake was just announced.
    The specs should have made it pretty obvious, but I'll throw some numbers at you.

    Cinebench R15 Multi:

    - i7-1065G7 (i5 should be slightly lower) - 830
    - i5-8010Y - 285

    3DMark Fire Strike (1920x1080):

    - Iris Plus G7 (Ice Lake 64 EU) - 3156
    - UHD 620 - 947

  • Reply 42 of 50
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    He's not wrong.

    The MacBook Air uses a 7 W 14nm i5-8210Y (2 cores / 4 threads, 3.6 GHz turbo) with UHD 617 graphics and LPDDR3-2133 RAM.

    The base model 13.5" Surface Laptop 3 uses a 15 W 10nm i5-1035G7 (4 cores / 8 threads, 3.7 GHz turbo) with Iris Plus G7 graphics and LPDDR4x-3733 RAM.
    Performance claims from manufacturers often are misleading.  Pick the best sample/benchmark/environment comparing to the worst of your competitor surely makes a huge difference.  Ice Lake isn't that different in terms of IPC than that 8th-gen, so I doubt it can do 3X more.

    Besides, 8210Y is already one year old, where Ice Lake was just announced.
    The specs should have made it pretty obvious, but I'll throw some numbers at you.

    Cinebench R15 Multi:

    - i7-1065G7 (i5 should be slightly lower) - 830
    - i5-8010Y - 285

    3DMark Fire Strike (1920x1080):

    - Iris Plus G7 (Ice Lake 64 EU) - 3156
    - UHD 620 - 947

    Ice Lake barely improves the IPC, so "judging by the specs" it looks only like 2X.

    Also, I can get mine running at ~299 (average) in a loop, a score of 830 is not 3X and that's the highest configuration.  Probably not an average score either.
    edited October 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 50
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,940member
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    He's not wrong.

    The MacBook Air uses a 7 W 14nm i5-8210Y (2 cores / 4 threads, 3.6 GHz turbo) with UHD 617 graphics and LPDDR3-2133 RAM.

    The base model 13.5" Surface Laptop 3 uses a 15 W 10nm i5-1035G7 (4 cores / 8 threads, 3.7 GHz turbo) with Iris Plus G7 graphics and LPDDR4x-3733 RAM.
    Performance claims from manufacturers often are misleading.  Pick the best sample/benchmark/environment comparing to the worst of your competitor surely makes a huge difference.  Ice Lake isn't that different in terms of IPC than that 8th-gen, so I doubt it can do 3X more.

    Besides, 8210Y is already one year old, where Ice Lake was just announced.
    The specs should have made it pretty obvious, but I'll throw some numbers at you.

    Cinebench R15 Multi:

    - i7-1065G7 (i5 should be slightly lower) - 830
    - i5-8010Y - 285

    3DMark Fire Strike (1920x1080):

    - Iris Plus G7 (Ice Lake 64 EU) - 3156
    - UHD 620 - 947

    Ice Lake merely improves the IPC, so "judging by the specs" it looks only like 2X.

    Also, I can get mine running at ~299 (average) in a loop, a score of 830 is not 3X and that's the highest configuration.  Probably not an average score either.

    Also, runs Windoze..
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 50
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,282member
    More meh from Microsoft. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 50
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    I'm impressed! Apple is being left in the dust, it's becoming more clear every year. That Neo device is what Apple should have come out with, but didn't because they have been too scared to move away from their tried and true, but aging, device designs.
    So they are left in the dust by a design that MS showed 10 years ago but never made it to market and now is still over a year away? Get it to market sell 100s of millions then we can talk. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 50
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    Yes Apple leads in overall processor performance!   However it is the parts of the chip that are not executing user ARM code that really make the difference on Apples chips.  That could be video decode, the sensor interface or a number of other subsections of Apples A series.  

    What this reveal tells me is that Microsoft knows this and is thus focusing on custom hardware in an effort to mimic some of the positives in Apples approach.  Of course Apple has taken focus off the Mac lineup so that kinda sucks in that little custom and really helpful to the user is done there.   Effectively when these ship, MS will beating Apple with a page from Apples own playbook.  

    The customized Ryzen (AMD) chip is especially interesting and I’d love to see more info on that beast.  While some don’t want to admit it yet Ryzen is eating Intel for lunch.  It is one of the reasons I’ve been advocating AMD based Macs.  The fact that AMD does custom like this is a further selling point for Macs.   Even better would be Macs with home grown ARM based hardware but Apple can’t even do decent Mac designs anymore so this might not happen anytime soon.  
  • Reply 47 of 50
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    razorpit said:
    As bad as these Surface products are I'm glad someone out there is offering some competition for Apple.
    What's so bad about them.  If these new Surface Laptops and Surface Pro X perform as expected, they'll definitely give Apple's Macbook (exception being 15" MBP) and iPad Pro a serious run for their money.  Good for MS. These are great products.
    Great products - maybe.   We need to see the actual shipping hardware and frankly an updated Windows.   

    As for Mac Books or the Mac line in general, that product line has been so poorly maintained over the last few years that I can reasonably say Apple will be blown out of the water by these.   If for nothing else the options MS is offering give people real choice.   It will be interesting to see some real benchmarking but it is likely that MS has Apple beat here at just about every price point.  
  • Reply 48 of 50
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    Excellent point. One I think is, well, debatable. I think most tech nowadays is performing quite similar - in general.
    Nope!    There is some massive deltas in performance out there.  Apple just makes it more obvious by their lack of attention to the Mac line.  
  • Reply 49 of 50
    mocsegmocseg Posts: 86member
    cornchip said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    He's not wrong.

    The MacBook Air uses a 7 W 14nm i5-8210Y (2 cores / 4 threads, 3.6 GHz turbo) with UHD 617 graphics and LPDDR3-2133 RAM.

    The base model 13.5" Surface Laptop 3 uses a 15 W 10nm i5-1035G7 (4 cores / 8 threads, 3.7 GHz turbo) with Iris Plus G7 graphics and LPDDR4x-3733 RAM.
    Performance claims from manufacturers often are misleading.  Pick the best sample/benchmark/environment comparing to the worst of your competitor surely makes a huge difference.  Ice Lake isn't that different in terms of IPC than that 8th-gen, so I doubt it can do 3X more.

    Besides, 8210Y is already one year old, where Ice Lake was just announced.
    The specs should have made it pretty obvious, but I'll throw some numbers at you.

    Cinebench R15 Multi:

    - i7-1065G7 (i5 should be slightly lower) - 830
    - i5-8010Y - 285

    3DMark Fire Strike (1920x1080):

    - Iris Plus G7 (Ice Lake 64 EU) - 3156
    - UHD 620 - 947

    Ice Lake merely improves the IPC, so "judging by the specs" it looks only like 2X.

    Also, I can get mine running at ~299 (average) in a loop, a score of 830 is not 3X and that's the highest configuration.  Probably not an average score either.

    Also, runs Windoze..

    This and even worse no Sketch app.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 50
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    wizard69 said:
    So my guess is this is a Snapdragon 8cx derivative with an added AI core.

    Still can't keep up with the A12X from last year, and the A13X is right around the corner. I really would like to see an A13X powered MacBook. It's time for Apple to take their complete control of the entire stack (hardware/software/dev tools) and apply that to an ARM MacBook.
    The MS presenter did state that the new Surface Laptop is 3X faster than the new MBA.  So take that for what it's worth.
    Excellent point. One I think is, well, debatable. I think most tech nowadays is performing quite similar - in general.
    Nope!    There is some massive deltas in performance out there.  Apple just makes it more obvious by their lack of attention to the Mac line.  
    Intel just announced U- and Y-series so far.  No K-, no H-.  How one's going to "upgrade"?
    watto_cobra
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