The only thing I’m concerned about with any of these folded smartphone designs has to do with the sensor.
when the camera is conventional, the sensor can be as large as the manufacturer wants, obly constricted by the size of the lens for coverage. Obviously, there are restrictions. The larger the sensor, the thicker the camera will need to be, hence a lens bump.
but with this design, the sensor size is severely restricted by the distance between the rear of the screen, and the rear of the back glass, or plate. With phones being thin, that doesn't leave more than a few millimeters between those parts. With the housing of the camera taking more room, just how large can that sensor be? If Apple were to place another prism at the rear of the lens, this could allow a sensor to lie flat against the rear of the screen, or back plate, thus allowing a larger sensor. But I don’t see that in this illustration.
How is this different from the Huawei P30’s 5x zoom folded lens, or the one being developed by Samsung for the Galaxy s11 for next year? Is the patent specific to the lens configuration or design, like how camera manufacturers patent their lens designs?
The concept is way older than that. Decades old. There was a Minolta point & shoot with such a design back in the 90s, and I'm sure there were some before that.
How is this different from the Huawei P30’s 5x zoom folded lens, or the one being developed by Samsung for the Galaxy s11 for next year? Is the patent specific to the lens configuration or design, like how camera manufacturers patent their lens designs?
The concept is way older than that. Decades old. There was a Minolta point & shoot with such a design back in the 90s, and I'm sure there were some before that.
I remember those. I really wonder how such an old idea can still be patented today. Minolta recycled the concept with their digital models
The only thing I’m concerned about with any of these folded smartphone designs has to do with the sensor.
when the camera is conventional, the sensor can be as large as the manufacturer wants, obly constricted by the size of the lens for coverage. Obviously, there are restrictions. The larger the sensor, the thicker the camera will need to be, hence a lens bump.
but with this design, the sensor size is severely restricted by the distance between the rear of the screen, and the rear of the back glass, or plate. With phones being thin, that doesn't leave more than a few millimeters between those parts. With the housing of the camera taking more room, just how large can that sensor be? If Apple were to place another prism at the rear of the lens, this could allow a sensor to lie flat against the rear of the screen, or back plate, thus allowing a larger sensor. But I don’t see that in this illustration.
It’s just one of many design iterations. There’s probably been a lot of discussion on whether optical zoom is worth the volume and floor space over a fixed 2x telephoto, and its not that surprising it isn’t a big enough feature to warrant it. Now with computational photography, the window for doing something like this is probably over.
If multi-image, long exposure can work for night mode, it can work for telephoto too. Won’t be fast, so you lose quick movement, but it will cover a few use cases.
The only thing I’m concerned about with any of these folded smartphone designs has to do with the sensor.
when the camera is conventional, the sensor can be as large as the manufacturer wants, obly constricted by the size of the lens for coverage. Obviously, there are restrictions. The larger the sensor, the thicker the camera will need to be, hence a lens bump.
but with this design, the sensor size is severely restricted by the distance between the rear of the screen, and the rear of the back glass, or plate. With phones being thin, that doesn't leave more than a few millimeters between those parts. With the housing of the camera taking more room, just how large can that sensor be? If Apple were to place another prism at the rear of the lens, this could allow a sensor to lie flat against the rear of the screen, or back plate, thus allowing a larger sensor. But I don’t see that in this illustration.
It’s just one of many design iterations. There’s probably been a lot of discussion on whether optical zoom is worth the volume and floor space over a fixed 2x telephoto, and its not that surprising it isn’t a big enough feature to warrant it. Now with computational photography, the window for doing something like this is probably over.
If multi-image, long exposure can work for night mode, it can work for telephoto too. Won’t be fast, so you lose quick movement, but it will cover a few use cases.
I’ve used studio cameras that had tri sensors for RGB. The ones in the illustration are still pretty small. The total surface area when compared to a single larger sensor, considering the losses of the bayer filtering plus convolution, as opposed to the losses from the beam splitter would be interesting to know.
As long as most people use their relatively tiny phone screens to view photos the quality of modern phone cameras appears pretty good even compared to a DSLR. However, when it comes to large prints and viewing images on big high res screens a full frame DSLR with decent glass still has its place.
That said from my surroundings I cant think of anyone but myself that uses a big screen to view photos, everyone else is happy with tiny screens. Heck, even my wife will watch netflix on her iPad on the couch instead of our large OLED TV. It always baffles me.
A thin phone isn't just for the aesthetic, there are numerous technical advantages to the thin design of smartphones in general.
It's lighter: Other than being easier to handle, a lighter weight makes the glass less likely to break if dropped and ecologically the phone less taxing to manufacture and transport. Thinner cools off better: So the processor and battery can be taxed more heavily. It's more elastically flexible: When bent in natural use, it's less prone to shatter the glass or distort the frame. It's efficient: Efficient battery operation requires high surface area versus volume. Meaning that if you want a bigger battery you need to preference wider and taller over thicker.
Periscope lenses have been the subject of various apple patents over the years, reported by this same website in 2015 and 2016 for example.
The only thing I’m concerned about with any of these folded smartphone designs has to do with the sensor.
when the camera is conventional, the sensor can be as large as the manufacturer wants, obly constricted by the size of the lens for coverage. Obviously, there are restrictions. The larger the sensor, the thicker the camera will need to be, hence a lens bump.
but with this design, the sensor size is severely restricted by the distance between the rear of the screen, and the rear of the back glass, or plate. With phones being thin, that doesn't leave more than a few millimeters between those parts. With the housing of the camera taking more room, just how large can that sensor be? If Apple were to place another prism at the rear of the lens, this could allow a sensor to lie flat against the rear of the screen, or back plate, thus allowing a larger sensor. But I don’t see that in this illustration.
Yeah that’s what I was trying to wrap my head around too
Apple could just fatter then phones up a bit, the bump would be gone and now you have more space for a larger battery. Why over think this or make it complicated.
This....
I still feel that the iPhone 4S form factor was the best of all the iPhones.
If the very small size of the 4 were ideal, consumers wouldnt have voted with their wallets for bigger phones. I’d find it difficult to return to the 4 size.
My favorite form factor was the 5S, with its “beautifully chamfered edges” as Jonny Ive put it.. I picked one up the other day and it felt comfortable in my hands. I can’t readily vote with my wallet as you say because I can’t buy a smaller phone from Apple with updated internals. I haven’t updated from my 7 because of this frankly. I hate it’s size. I’ve held the X, XS, and 11 pro and don’t like them for same reasons I don’t like the 7. I also dislike the round edges. I’ll be stuck on my 7 until it breaks or apple comes out with a smaller phone. And no, I’m not going with an Android. I like iOS better. I’m betting my 7 will break before a “mini” pro iPhone is released, though. So i guess I am voting with my wallet in that I refuse to shell out for an upgraded iPhone for as long as I can. I would probably upgrade every 2 years if there was a smaller “pro” form factor.
Comments
when the camera is conventional, the sensor can be as large as the manufacturer wants, obly constricted by the size of the lens for coverage. Obviously, there are restrictions. The larger the sensor, the thicker the camera will need to be, hence a lens bump.
but with this design, the sensor size is severely restricted by the distance between the rear of the screen, and the rear of the back glass, or plate. With phones being thin, that doesn't leave more than a few millimeters between those parts. With the housing of the camera taking more room, just how large can that sensor be? If Apple were to place another prism at the rear of the lens, this could allow a sensor to lie flat against the rear of the screen, or back plate, thus allowing a larger sensor. But I don’t see that in this illustration.
They can’t patent a folded lens because it’s a folded lens. But they can patent a lens.
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2015/02/apple-reveals-a-zoom-lens-breakthrough-for-future-
It’s just one of many design iterations. There’s probably been a lot of discussion on whether optical zoom is worth the volume and floor space over a fixed 2x telephoto, and its not that surprising it isn’t a big enough feature to warrant it. Now with computational photography, the window for doing something like this is probably over.
If multi-image, long exposure can work for night mode, it can work for telephoto too. Won’t be fast, so you lose quick movement, but it will cover a few use cases.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-10/uou-ttw100719.php
.
It's lighter: Other than being easier to handle, a lighter weight makes the glass less likely to break if dropped and ecologically the phone less taxing to manufacture and transport.
Thinner cools off better: So the processor and battery can be taxed more heavily.
It's more elastically flexible: When bent in natural use, it's less prone to shatter the glass or distort the frame.
It's efficient: Efficient battery operation requires high surface area versus volume. Meaning that if you want a bigger battery you need to preference wider and taller over thicker.
Periscope lenses have been the subject of various apple patents over the years, reported by this same website in 2015 and 2016 for example.