Tim Cook defends choice to pull Hong Kong police monitoring app from App Store

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
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in iPhone
A memo has surfaced, showing that Tim Cook supports Apple's choice to remove the controversial police monitoring app, HKMap Live, from the App Store.

HKMap Live


The once-banned-then-reinstated app, HKMap Live, has been once again pulled from the App Store. Now, Tim Cook has gone on record in a memo saying that he defends the choice to finally remove it from the App Store once and for all.

HKmap Live was an app intended to track police activity on the streets of Hong Kong. The developer's stated objective was to allow users to avoid areas where protesters and police conflicts could potentially take place.

However, the argument was made that the app could be used for evading the police. According to a copy of the memo received by Bloomberg HKMap Live has been used "maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present."

The developers of HKMap Live have gone on record saying that they do not agree with Apple's decision.

1. We disagree @Apple and @hkpoliceforce 's claim that HKmap App endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong.#HKmap #HKmaplive #HK #Censorship

-- HKmap.live (@hkmaplive)


Apple has been criticized for the move, being added to the list of companies under scrutiny as the Hong Kong protests intensify. Activision Blizzard Inc. has also recently been put under fire after banning a pro gamer from a Hearthstone tournament after he had shown support for Hong Kong protests in a post-game interview.

HKMap Live is not the only app to be removed from the Chinese App Store in recent times, either. Quartz, a news app that featured extensive coverage of the Hong Kong protests, had been removed from the Chinese App Store earlier this week.

Below is the full memo that Tim Cook provided via email to Apple employees.
Team,

You have likely seen the news that we made the decision to remove an app from the App Store entitled HKmap.live. These decisions are never easy, and it is harder still to discuss these topics during moments of furious public debate. It's out of my great respect for the work you do every day that I want to share the way we went about making this decision.

It is no secret that technology can be used for good or for ill. This case is no different. The app in question allowed for the crowdsourced reporting and mapping of police checkpoints, protest hotspots, and other information. On its own, this information is benign. However, over the past several days we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present. This use put the app in violation of Hong Kong law. Similarly, widespread abuse clearly violates our App Store guidelines barring personal harm.

We built the App Store to be a safe and trusted place for every user. It's a responsibility that we take very seriously, and it's one that we aim to preserve. National and international debates will outlive us all, and, while important, they do not govern the facts. In this case, we thoroughly reviewed them, and we believe this decision best protects our users.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 85
    yojimbo007yojimbo007 Posts: 1,165member
    👍Tim... 
    macplusplusdoozydozen1983jony0
  • Reply 2 of 85
    GeneralBrockGeneralBrock Posts: 23member
    This is a PR battle Apple cannot win. Heads they side with the protesters and China takes it out on them. Tails things get increasingly worse in Hong Kong and Apple appears to be helping and authoritarian regime beat up on protesters. 
    viclauyyc
  • Reply 3 of 85
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Apple has not choice, at the end of the day they have a responsibility to their employees and shareholders. Apple could be morally right keeping it up since it is no worse than Waze. However, if they do not pull it down, China can make it very costly to Apple to the point Apple will not be able to make and ship product out of China. Yes Apple could go elsewhere, but there is not enough manufacturing elsewhere to support the worlds demand of Apple products. 

    For all the people who want to be on the Moral High Ground the only place you can do that in this day and age is being naked in the woods somewhere. If you really dug into everything you would find that something related to that product could be deemed reprehensible. In the case most people like their cheap electronics coming out of China.

    I said this in the other thread on this topic before it was taken down. The US has similar laws that people are not allow to track police and what they are doing. Yes police have been unsuccessful at pulling down Waze, but there was long debate on this topic. In the US it is illegal to have a police radio scanner in your car as well if you are caught with police scanner in your possession during a commission of a crime the penalty for the crime become far worse. Before people say this would never happen elsewhere it has, no one has a right to monitor police present and use it to commit a crime. This is independent of whether you agree or disagree what is happen in Hong Kong.
    edited October 2019 radarthekat
  • Reply 4 of 85
    lmaclmac Posts: 212member
    GeneralBrock said:
    This is a PR battle Apple cannot win. Heads they side with the protesters and China takes it out on them. Tails things get increasingly worse in Hong Kong and Apple appears to be helping and authoritarian regime beat up on protesters. 
    I think you state this well. Heads, you stand by your principles and lose money. Tails, you sacrifice your principles and keep the money. Apple chose the money.
    GeneralBrockmikethemartianrogifan_newCloudTalkinCheeseFreezecat52monstrositymuthuk_vanalingamnewBelieverchemengin1
  • Reply 5 of 85
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,065member
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 6 of 85
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 363member
    They can just pull the app out of the HK app store. Other counties app stores are outside China jurisdiction.
  • Reply 7 of 85
    ronnronn Posts: 690member
    It wouldn't look so bad if Tim and Apple didn't parrot the lies of the Chinese government. And fly in the face of Tim's rhetoric in the past. It would've been better for him to personally keep quiet.
    lkruppblue orangecat52monstrositywozwoznewBelieverchemengin1
  • Reply 8 of 85
    GeneralBrockGeneralBrock Posts: 23member
    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    rogifan_newcat52muthuk_vanalingamchemengin1
  • Reply 9 of 85
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Do you really think people will understand, we live in the cancel culture, people are looking for any reason to say you're some how morally wrong based on their moral measuring scale which gets recalibrate each day. No one is going to understand on any side, and Apple will end up paying a price and the people who want to cancel Apple do not care people around the world would loose their jobs if Apple choose to stand its moral ground and China decide to cancelled their business operations in China. Plus if Apple did not do this, you can pretty much guarantee any apple management traveling to China would be detained.
  • Reply 10 of 85
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    The shocking development is that the stock goes up when Apple clearly folds to the Chinese pressure. This tells you everything about the morality of the stock market and the corporate world. This is as immoral as it gets. 
    cat52ronn
  • Reply 11 of 85
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    sirozha said:
    The shocking development is that the stock goes up when Apple clearly folds to the Chinese pressure. This tells you everything about the morality of the stock market and the corporate world. This is as immoral as it gets. 
    That is kind of simplistic view, the market are up for a number of various reason, it has less to do about this app than anything else. I am guessing you do not have any 401K or retirement. If you do then your part of the immoral as it gets since you are benefiting from the market.
  • Reply 12 of 85
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,517member
    I just LOL at how people think they have all the credible information just because they're reading the sources that they chose. Really, there are a lot more to what you read on the internet. And I know how some violence is inflicted on the innocent because... the INTERNET!
    doozydozen
  • Reply 13 of 85
    tzm41tzm41 Posts: 95member
    I've closely followed some protestors' social media accounts since I'm fluent in Cantonese. The hatred towards police and the metro system... They vowed to burn down the MTR and they did, forcing the whole system to shut down for two days. They forced some children of police officers to take leaves from schools since these children are threatened or bullied by their peers who are protesters. They attack police with petrol bombs and catapults.

    I mean, the police fires tear gas and yells at protestors too, but I don't doubt that this kind of application enables protestors to ambush police officers and their relatives.
  • Reply 14 of 85
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Apple is for human rights so long as it doesn’t impact the company’s bottom line. Samsung has moved most if not all of their manufacturing out of China. Apple needs to do the same.
    blue orangecat52yuck9muthuk_vanalingamwozwozphonephreakchemengin1
  • Reply 15 of 85
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    lmac said:
    This is a PR battle Apple cannot win. Heads they side with the protesters and China takes it out on them. Tails things get increasingly worse in Hong Kong and Apple appears to be helping and authoritarian regime beat up on protesters. 
    I think you state this well. Heads, you stand by your principles and lose money. Tails, you sacrifice your principles and keep the money. Apple chose the money.
    You choose to ignore Cook's words. "the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present."
    doozydozen
  • Reply 16 of 85
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    GeneralBrock said:
    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 17 of 85
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    ronn said:
    It wouldn't look so bad if Tim and Apple didn't parrot the lies of the Chinese government. And fly in the face of Tim's rhetoric in the past. It would've been better for him to personally keep quiet.
    Do you have proof they are lies? 
    doozydozen
  • Reply 18 of 85
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    tzm41 said:
    I've closely followed some protestors' social media accounts since I'm fluent in Cantonese. The hatred towards police and the metro system... They vowed to burn down the MTR and they did, forcing the whole system to shut down for two days. They forced some children of police officers to take leaves from schools since these children are threatened or bullied by their peers who are protesters. They attack police with petrol bombs and catapults.

    I mean, the police fires tear gas and yells at protestors too, but I don't doubt that this kind of application enables protestors to ambush police officers and their relatives.
    I heard that Hong Kong people are afraid to go out during weekends. They purchased groceries on Thursday and Friday. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 19 of 85
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    netrox said:
    I just LOL at how people think they have all the credible information just because they're reading the sources that they chose. Really, there are a lot more to what you read on the internet. And I know how some violence is inflicted on the innocent because... the INTERNET!
    Simple explanation. The western media will never report positive news for China. This will be like slapping their faces after demonizing China for decades and more. 
    doozydozen
  • Reply 20 of 85
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,669member
    tzeshan said:

    GeneralBrock said:
    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    JWSCCloudTalkintyler82john.bblue orangecat52muthuk_vanalingamBxBornronn
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