Tim Cook defends choice to pull Hong Kong police monitoring app from App Store

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 85
    imatimat Posts: 201member
    I still remember this answer regarding a criticism made because Apple was being too environmental friendly:
     In response, Cook explained that not everything Apple does is motivated by money. "If you want me to do things only for [return on investment] reasons," he explained, "you should get out of this stock." 


    Those were good times. Maybe the strategy of "everything made in China" is backfiring big time, but Apple used to champion something more than mere ROI and, on the environment side still does. But on a political level, the absolute avoidance of any politics, be it in the US as well as abroad, for a global company like Apple won't be sustainable in the long run. 
    rcfamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 62 of 85
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Apple is just a corporate whore like any other company acquiescing to China’s demands, all the babble about safety simply boils down to “we want to make money, no matter the human rights violations” and utterly leaves out of consideration that there can be no safety without freedom, because whatever superficial safety may exist can at any second be pierced by random actions of an undemocratic government.
    cat52
  • Reply 63 of 85
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    chaicka said:


    Outright calling police car as 'dog' car?
    So what? Think “Copper”, “Cop”, or “Pig” in English is more respectful? Plus, police dogs are a thing in riot police...
  • Reply 64 of 85
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,258member
    This is not right, just like the NBA.  But perhaps the greatest evil of them all is the CCP.
    cat52
  • Reply 65 of 85
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    gatorguy said:
    tzeshan said:

    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    Google Play is not available in China.

    https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-Play-in-China-function


    Yeah. But this is in Hong Kong where it IS available. 
    edited October 2019 muthuk_vanalingamronn
  • Reply 66 of 85
    Rer412Rer412 Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    speaking as a resident in HK, Apple’s decision is just ignorant. Does Tim know the cops in HK has just violated EVERY guideline and even law to complete their so-called peace-keeping mission? Does Tim know, the HK police arrested a young pregnant woman, even followed her to the delivery room just because she wore a black mask? Does Tim know a college student just being raped by police in the police station? And does Tim know the so-called Hong Kong police are actually the masked Chinese PLA cadet in reality? I doubt he just knows Chinese is the place Apple can make the big money.
    matrix077muthuk_vanalingamcat52
  • Reply 67 of 85
    hmmm...would Apple had been as quick to remove an app that tracked ICE in the US? probably not... I do find it funny all of the people posting their outrage when in the end they will continue to throw their money at Apple which, when that's the case, why should Apple care or change?
  • Reply 68 of 85
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member
    Rer412 said:
    speaking as a resident in HK, Apple’s decision is just ignorant. Does Tim know the cops in HK has just violated EVERY guideline and even law to complete their so-called peace-keeping mission? Does Tim know, the HK police arrested a young pregnant woman, even followed her to the delivery room just because she wore a black mask? Does Tim know a college student just being raped by police in the police station? And does Tim know the so-called Hong Kong police are actually the masked Chinese PLA cadet in reality? I doubt he just knows Chinese is the place Apple can make the big money.
    Your points don't really mean much in the context of this decision. The app was pulled for the reasons Tim gave. There might not have been widespread consensus within Apple, we just don't know, but the reason was given and is clear.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, so using the app for 'ill' as Tim said is not countered out by abusive police behaviour. That has nothing to do with the app or its use. That is a wider debate and perhaps is valid (as others have already mentioned) as Apple does like to speak out on its core values. That is a far pricklier subject which I have taken issue with in the past (on tax issues) but in the context of this decision/discussion, I think their position is clear, understandable (at least with what has been made public) and, as has been said, difficult.


    muthuk_vanalingamJWSC
  • Reply 69 of 85
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    So removal of the Quartz app was a good idea too? Apple can not say it has a "moral compass" and do this crap

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/business/dealbook/tim-cook-apple-moral-responsibility.html
    edited October 2019 cat52
  • Reply 70 of 85

    It is so nice that people can see things so black and white. It is also a great thing that they are able to express their opinion most of the time without consequence.

    edited October 2019
  • Reply 71 of 85
    Rer412 said:
    speaking as a resident in HK, Apple’s decision is just ignorant. Does Tim know the cops in HK has just violated EVERY guideline and even law to complete their so-called peace-keeping mission? Does Tim know, the HK police arrested a young pregnant woman, even followed her to the delivery room just because she wore a black mask? Does Tim know a college student just being raped by police in the police station? And does Tim know the so-called Hong Kong police are actually the masked Chinese PLA cadet in reality? I doubt he just knows Chinese is the place Apple can make the big money.
    After following HK incident for the past month I think this guy version is closer to the truth.

    Oh, and calling the police “dog” is resentful? The same police that called protesters “cockroaches” since day one? Since they’re still protesting peacefully? They should call the police much worse than that TBF.

    And please AI, do something about all these Chinese commies perpetrated here to spread CCP propaganda. Just do it for the world, ban them all. Don’t be a coward like NBA or Tim Cook. 
    edited October 2019 ronncat52
  • Reply 72 of 85
    wozwozwozwoz Posts: 253member
    There is an interesting article on the BBC about Apple caving into Chinese political pressure at:  https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50009971 
     It quotes long-time Apple commentator John Gruber as saying in reference to Tim Cook's email: “  I can’t recall an Apple memo or statement that crumbles so quickly under scrutiny.”  Rather makes a mockery of all the claptrap about solar panels on the roof when they side with totalitarianism.
    cat52
  • Reply 73 of 85
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tzeshan said:

    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    Google Play is not available in China.

    https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-Play-in-China-function


    Yeah. But this is in Hong Kong where it IS available. 
    I thought you were in Florida, not Hong Kong?
  • Reply 74 of 85
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,186member
    Rer412 said:
    speaking as a resident in HK, Apple’s decision is just ignorant. Does Tim know the cops in HK has just violated EVERY guideline and even law to complete their so-called peace-keeping mission? Does Tim know, the HK police arrested a young pregnant woman, even followed her to the delivery room just because she wore a black mask? Does Tim know a college student just being raped by police in the police station? And does Tim know the so-called Hong Kong police are actually the masked Chinese PLA cadet in reality? I doubt he just knows Chinese is the place Apple can make the big money.
    What was really shocking was the day the HK police just disappeared, and these “white shirt” guys come out and start beating on people.  HK used to be one of the safest cities to walk around during the evening hours because of the police.  How that order went out for the police to disappear is flabbergasting.  I can’t imagine that the majority of police officers were OK with that order.  But they obeyed nonetheless.  One couldn’t imagine such a thing not long ago.  The city is being torn apart from the inside.  And it’s all driven by fear of the mainland.

    BTW, I’m kind of doubting that PLA cadets are masquerading as HK police.  They’d stand out like a sore thumb.  And even if they knew Cantonese, their accents would give them away.
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 75 of 85
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tzeshan said:

    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    Google Play is not available in China.

    https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-Play-in-China-function


    Yeah. But this is in Hong Kong where it IS available. 
    I thought you were in Florida, not Hong Kong?
    We are legion. :)

    I am in Florida. The pertinent Google Play Store and referenced app is in Hong Kong and available for download, but as you said NOT available for the Mainland. 
    ronn
  • Reply 76 of 85
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,186member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    But I have publicized it on some Chinese web site. 
    Nice to know there is some good patriotic Chinese informers like yourself who tell the Chinese government whom else to pressure and blackmail. While you are at it, while you don't you tell your handlers to take a bit easier on those millions of Uyghurs they locked up in concentration camps (sorry - education camps). Some of those stupid Westerners have started to notice. 

    Just a guess - Google probably doesn't care as much about China since they essentially left in 2009 and don't have much activity left there. Unlike Apple.
    Don't challenge me. I am very knowledgeable about every thing. For example, can you tell me why US still jail thousands of muslims in Cuba base? 
    Wow.  Chip, meet shoulder.  That’s a euphemism by the way.  Your English/Chinese translator may not work so well with that one.
    ronncat52
  • Reply 77 of 85
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,186member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tzeshan said:

    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    Google Play is not available in China.

    https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-Play-in-China-function


    Yeah. But this is in Hong Kong where it IS available. 
    I thought you were in Florida, not Hong Kong?
    We are legion. :)

    I am in Florida. The pertinent Google Play Store and referenced app is in Hong Kong and available for download, but as you said NOT available for the Mainland. 
    Google has an advantage over Apple when it comes to China, as they have significantly less at stake if the Communist Party decides to sanction them.
  • Reply 78 of 85
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    This is simply a case of cool caving to Chinese pressure. He wants to keep selling, so he does what they tell him. It’s the same with blizzard. 

    We don’t need candy coating. It is what it is. And it’s still wrong. Too much censorship. Apple has been heavy handed in this. 

    If a group of Christians Iranians put together an app to monitor the whereabouts of Islamic police so they can stay alive and not be persecuted, is Apple going to ban that too? It’s a slippery slope. All it takes is the government to make up a story about the app users attacking the “police?” There needs to be a way for people to have the apps they want and bypass apples idea of what belongs. I’m not saying Apple host it. But there should be a secondary protocol for web apps or something that satisfies apples security standard while absolving them of political blame while enabling the user to do what they need to do. Shouldn’t have to jailbreak to do so. 

    Apples all about human rights and protecting the individual... sticking it to “the man”... until a big money market comes into play.. obvious human rights violations be dangnabbited. 

    Which reminds me how thankful I am that at least currently, we have much freedom in the USA. Let’s all hope that stays or even gets better. Small government for a great people. It’s when government thinks they need to run your lives, health, morals, religion, and pocketbook that you end up like China or Iran. 
    So China possibly shutting down Apple's operation in China and arresting Apple employees and causing lots of Apple employees to loose their jobs will all be worth interfering in other countries policy matters. Yes this is real possibility, since any company doing business in China is by invitation only. Yes you can make up all sort of what if scenarios that make things look horrible, but none of us are there and the media today it not the bastion of facts and truth so we have no idea of the real situation. We are all assuming based on bits and pieces of disjointed information. It is easy to demand someone or a company to stand up and sacrifice everything when you have nothing to loose in the process. 

    Keep in mind this supposedly all started due to the extradition law with China, people stood up and said it was wrong, then the Government suspended the law, the protests continued, the Government has now rescinded the law, but the protest continue to the point of getting more and more violent. The protestors got what they wanted, or did they, since they still seem to be more interested in protesting than accepting they got the government to change direction. Was this really about the extradition law or were people more interest in creating problems for the Government. I know they are now demanding to have the government council to have all its member be voted in by the public verse half being appointed by business leaders. IT kind of sounds like the same thing going on in the US, lots of people pissed off at governments and companies. Should we let people US go around an commit crimes on people and property and avoid being arrested.

    It is not Apple job to solve world problems, they make consumer goods, people elect people to fix social issues. No one has any right to tell someone else how to use their resource.
  • Reply 79 of 85
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    JWSC said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tzeshan said:

    avon b7 said:
    I said in another thread that this is a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' case.

    Given what has been made public on the reasoning applied to this case, I'm sure most people will be able to understand the decision even if they don't share it.
    Most people will understand, yet realize that Apple chose the money. Which is completely understandable as they are a public company with fiduciary responsibilities. However, Apple lost some of its shine today and the next time Tim has something to speak out on there will be less people listening.
    I wonder why this developer don't write this app for Androids. I like to see how Google responds. 
    Oh, geez, did you even bother to look before posting? I think not. HKMapsLive is available on Google Play. Has been and still is. 
    Anything else you're wondering about but can't be bothered to look? 
    Google Play is not available in China.

    https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-Play-in-China-function


    Yeah. But this is in Hong Kong where it IS available. 
    I thought you were in Florida, not Hong Kong?
    We are legion. :)

    I am in Florida. The pertinent Google Play Store and referenced app is in Hong Kong and available for download, but as you said NOT available for the Mainland. 
    Google has an advantage over Apple when it comes to China, as they have significantly less at stake if the Communist Party decides to sanction them.
    That's true
  • Reply 80 of 85
    ronnronn Posts: 515member
    tzeshan said:

    ronn said:
    It wouldn't look so bad if Tim and Apple didn't parrot the lies of the Chinese government. And fly in the face of Tim's rhetoric in the past. It would've been better for him to personally keep quiet.
    Do you have proof they are lies? 
    Tim is repeating the claims from the Mainlaind. I'll take the word of Charles Mok over Tim's parroting of anonymous "authorities" any day:

    “There are numerous cases of innocent passersby in the neighbourhood injured by the Hong Kong Police Force’s excessive force in crowd dispersal operations.” -- Charles Mok, Hong Kong law maker.

    With several months of protests there are several videos of police overkill in dealing with citizens. Many of them innocent bystanders that aren't even a part of the protests. Are some protestors going too far? Of course! Happens often with conflicts. But there are more pro-CCP/allies that have been violent than pro-democracy protestors. Between the overzealous HK police and the CCP-aligned Triad Gangs, this app can be a legitimate resource for HK citizens to avoid the conflict and/or raging police forces.

    When asked to cite the laws that the app violates neither Apple nor the Mainland will cite them; the latter wants questioners to continue in a loop by simply stating ask Apple. Apple cites discussions with "relevant authorities." Again, if you're going to kowtow, silence would be best. Otherwise you look a foolish liar in the face of your past pronouncements Tim Cook.
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