I agree with a lot of what ded says however i believe the mac book pro is a flawed laptop. Instead of making a reliable solid robust computer they have ruined in my opinion. Im using an alien-ware gaming laptop and i love it. I was an Apple fan but after the keyboard debacle and being told that i had to pay $900 to repair a 15 month old mac book pro i gave. Its now useless. After having viewed several you tube videos by people who repair mac books its pretty obvious apple has compromised the mac book pro with a flimsy design in their pursuit of miniaturization. Design flaws on the wT the lis is connected to the chassis and so on which cause the connectors hinges to break prematurely and brick it. One hardware repairer basically thinks apple is forcing us to buy 3 year protection plans but i doubt that , i think its just bad design. Ive had enough. I only have an iPhone and an iPad now those seem to he reliable.
I also don't need a lecture about break-out boxes and endless dongles.
Okay, then you're being willfully obtuse when you say you cannot use a PCI card with any Mac right now, because it's not true. I'm going to venture to guess that you don't actually even need one, but you're complaining anyway. Anyone who did would've just figured out the solution and moved on with their life. Same with adapters for bespoke ports and card readers. I've had an external card reader for 10 years (since the last time I had a Mac with a built-in reader) and still haven't lost it. Not sure how you lose things so easily. The point is, there are *easy* solutions and you're unwilling to even try them because "reasons". The point of this article is that petulant whining from the minority of braying neckbeards who are unwilling to embrace change is not what moves the needle at Apple. Meanwhile most people are literally just getting their work done with the tools available.
Cool, a Forbes article! They're about as relevant as any random blogging platform these days, they literally take contributions from anyone who will write for them. There's no shortage of whiners on the internet complaining about their view of Apple's direction, but that's literally always been the case for forever.
I also don't need a lecture about break-out boxes and endless dongles.
...petulant whining from the minority of braying neckbeards who are unwilling to embrace change is not what moves the needle at Apple. Meanwhile most people are literally just getting their work done with the tools available.
Again, you are lambasting me personally repeatedly with degrading name-calling even though I am your fellow Apple product lover. In stark contrast, I am speaking about the design choices of the largest company in the world who can defend themselves without your help. You talk about others "whining" while somehow thinking your arguments against your fellow Apple lovers such as myself are somehow NOT whining.
One cannot rationally bring "most people" into this equation because "most people" use Windows PCs not a Mac. To defend "most people" is in fact a defense of Windows.
Your eyes roll when I mention a 24k gold cup but those same eyes don't roll when I now bring to your attention the same thing -- the solid gold Apple Watch Edition? No need to roll the eyes when Apple literally has sold solid gold. And that worked out so well they don't sell it anymore. :-)
Let's face it. Mac users are diverse. I cannot speak for you or the majority of people anymore than you can speak for he majority "of MAC USERS." You see things as being near perfect in Cupertino whereas I do not. The difference is that I don't mind you Thinking Different. I'm happy for you in that you are easy to satisfy. Apple just kicks it out the door and you buy it and say nary a negative word. That's great! But for some reason you mind my differing thoughts, as per your emotionally-charged replies back to me. But as I've said, my beef is with the world's largest company, not with you. And that won't change even if you contend the entire world is on your side. Your defense of the status quo doesn't magically make me or anyone else who loves Macs somehow find contentment they never had before. Only Macs that satisfy our personal needs will do that. Thankfully Apple has its ears open a tad wider than some in the AppleInsider forums:
I've Apple feedback there and other places and continue to do so. I even sent Steve Jobs direct emails in the past when he was still alive. I think it's important to express our thoughts even when those thoughts are deemed crazy, cause trouble, or don't follow Apple's design rules. There are those at Apple who still see genius in such remarks, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do. So go ahead and vilify me, but it's not the defense of the status quo that pushes the human race forward. Think Different!
My goodness. So many words. I don’t mind long content... when it says something useful. This is just another Apple worship piece. More free propaganda for Apple and more echo-chamber content for the believers. These editorials... I’m going to start skipping them outright, like I do with all the sponsored content “articles”.
Please keep us up to date on what else you're not reading on the Internet.
A great article, naysayer whining and comedy gold in the comments.
What gets me is that the MacPro was always touted as modular at its inception yet all I see is a case with a set of proprietary modules, all of which are out of date, the chip I believe is EOL, still susceptible to the spector virus and has not had its number of executions per cycle upped in some six or seven years, Intel is developing a whole new architecture for it's next generation chips which this definitely isn't. The graphics card is not the absolute latest and will be superseded within six months of it's release tops, and I bet you anything it will not be upgradable. The USB forum have just finalised USB 4 spec and this only has USB 3, this is hardly a long term investment and to top it off I can't run Catalina as it breaks everything in sight, I think the best thing is to wait a year and see how things pan out
What gets me is that the MacPro was always touted as modular at its inception yet all I see is a case with a set of proprietary modules, all of which are out of date, the chip I believe is EOL, still susceptible to the spector virus and has not had its number of executions per cycle upped in some six or seven years, Intel is developing a whole new architecture for it's next generation chips which this definitely isn't. The graphics card is not the absolute latest and will be superseded within six months of it's release tops, and I bet you anything it will not be upgradable. The USB forum have just finalised USB 4 spec and this only has USB 3, this is hardly a long term investment and to top it off I can't run Catalina as it breaks everything in sight, I think the best thing is to wait a year and see how things pan out
As always, if you don’t need a machine now, wait for another year or two (or five or ten).
But it doesn’t seem like you’re the target demographic, because those customers want this box now. Actually, three or four years ago.
Also: the CPU isn’t EOL, as the Xeon W-3200 series only started shipping in June, and the next generation likely won’t be released until at least 2021. USB4 won’t be shipping until later next year or even 2021. Modular doesn’t mean industry standard, and virtually everything in the MacPro is removable/replaceable: CPU, RAM, SSD cards, I/O card, GPU and the “Afterburner” custom FPGA video stream accelerator.
Yes, it’s incumbent upon Apple to make timely upgrades available for the GPU modules—something they failed to do with the 2013 Mac Pro—and also for the Afterburner card. Based on their demonstrated renewed commitment to the Mac Pro platform, I think they’ll make those upgrades available. I also expect they’ll refresh the platform every couple years, though obviously they’re dependent on Intel’s CPU release schedule to a large extent.
re: Catalina, it does seem to have some hiccups; hopefully Apple can address that relatively quickly.
But rather than go down the path of a Cupertino worshipper and praise every Apple product primarily because "Apple has a strong strategic intent," I would suggest a better approach is to evaluate how well those products are received. We know how well the 2013 trashcan Mac Pro was (or rather, WASN'T) received. And now we see a new Mac Pro priced so high the average consumer can never evaluate it.
You do realize that an original Mac 128K in 1984 was $2495 USD. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $6166 USD today, enough for a starter level Mac Pro. But of course it's not a fair comparison because the original Mac's feature set and performance is totally laughable and almost toy-like compared to what the lowest end Mac Mini provides today. Comparing the similarly priced Mac 128K to the new Mac Pro is like comparing a bottle rocket to a Saturn V rocket. It's hard to complain about Apple's prices when you consider what you're getting for the price.
Also keep in mind that the "average consumer" of a Mac Pro is a professional who needs a tool with that level of performance to sustain or grow his/her business or their employer's business. It's no different than the "average consumer" of a 20 ton excavator being someone in the construction business who needs to move a lot of dirt very quickly, not some guy in a condo building a patio in his back yard.
Hey, I'd love to play with all of the big boy toys too, but chances are pretty good that if I have to actually think twice about buying a particular business tool because of the price, I probably don't really need it. If I really needed it as a tool to sustain my business and my livelihood I would not have to think about it at all (disregarding temporary cash flow issues that may defer the purchase to a later date). Sure, owning a 20 ton Caterpillar GC 323 would make me the envy of my neighbors and help me deal with my Chipmunk problem, but I can't afford it and realistically, I don't really need it - sigh...
Well said and a better comparison is the Mac IIfx which was a powerhouse for professionals in its day and its starting price was almost the same then as new Mac pro will be now. Fully loaded as mine was it came in at $12,000 so the new one will go well over that of course.
This may have contained some interesting thoughts (or not), but it's another of DED's wordy (2871 of 'em) epistles that start with God creating the world, then the formation of continents, the extinction of dinosaurs, the emergence of civilizations, man making stone tools and developing technology and on and on until we get to some kind of point. Maybe.
You need to read more substantive pieces. 2871 words is only 9 pages in a typical book. Too many books and articles are flotsam.
i appreciate the thought DED puts into his pieces.
I read about 1/4 of this article then paused to scroll down to see how much more of this diatribe there was, reading an additional paragraph here and there. Dude, are you Bi-Polar? Having "Just Another Manic Monday?" Holy S***. None of this article has anything to do with Mac Pro Performance or review after giving one a test drive, which is what I was hoping for, good or bad. This article talks mostly about Google Android Failures and Inside Apple decisions you have know real knowledge of. This endless rant reminds me of a Famous Clip a Bill Gates Shouted in a during an Employee Meeting at Microsoft: “You Never Understood the First Thing About This!” Yet another blowhard who gets to write a never-ending mantra of Psychobabble. Ewan Spence of Forbes is another one. Where and how these guys get to write for major publications has got to be about wealth and connections and nothing more.
Typical DED fare... but as with some of your articles (not all) I am bit confused about central premise. Are you upset that everybody thinks the new Mac Pro is awesome...?
I'm sorry, but I cannot justify the iMac as a prosumer Mac. I want my Mac to be readily repairable, upgradable and expandable. You know, like they were under Steve Jobs. I don't mind paying a small premium for that as long as the build quality is there, but double retail? Uh, no.
Another newbie to Apple who doesn’t even understand Apple and its history. Jobs disliked expandability going back to the development of the original Macintosh. Oops.
And it was Jobs’ successors who diverged from the non-expandable Macintosh to the path of beige boxes with slots on down to allowing Mac clones. From Scully, to Spindler (The Diesel), to Gil Amelio they pursued that path to near oblivion even though it was what the fake AI techies of the world wanted, and continue to want today. What was the very first thing Jobs did when he returned? He canceled ALL of it and returned to the all-in-one, non-expandable product that saved the company, the Bondi Blue iMac.
Typical DED fare... but as with some of your articles (not all) I am bit confused about central premise. Are you upset that everybody thinks the new Mac Pro is awesome...?
Are you kidding. Almost no one here on AI thinks the Mac Pro is awesome. They have been trashing it from day one for the usual reason, the price. They want a Mac Pro they can afford for their piddly home studios where they claim to be professionals. They trash the iMac and Mac Mini because they are not expandable even though those machines have more than enough horsepower to do the job for “prosumers” and "in-home pros” They define prosumers and professionals only as those who want (more than need) slots. it’s ALL about slots, slots, and more slots. And tinkering, tinkering, tinkering... swap this, swap that, install this, hack that.
I also don't need a lecture about break-out boxes and endless dongles.
...petulant whining from the minority of braying neckbeards who are unwilling to embrace change is not what moves the needle at Apple. Meanwhile most people are literally just getting their work done with the tools available.
Your eyes roll when I mention a 24k gold cup but those same eyes don't roll when I now bring to your attention the same thing -- the solid gold Apple Watch Edition? No need to roll the eyes when Apple literally has sold solid gold. And that worked out so well they don't sell it anymore. :-)
Incorrect. If you had bothered to watch the keynote you'd recall Cook said during the very announcement that the gold Edition was a limited run. They of course didn't expect it to be a big seller; it was probably something Ive wanted to work on and considering it would drum up attention for a brand new product trying to be more than a tech gizmo, they said sure why not. Trying to frame it as some sort of failure is disingenuous at best.
I read about 1/4 of this article then paused to scroll down to see how much more of this diatribe there was, reading an additional paragraph here and there. Dude, are you Bi-Polar? Having "Just Another Manic Monday?" Holy S***. None of this article has anything to do with Mac Pro Performance or review after giving one a test drive, which is what I was hoping for, good or bad. This article talks mostly about Google Android Failures and Inside Apple decisions you have know real knowledge of. This endless rant reminds me of a Famous Clip a Bill Gates Shouted in a during an Employee Meeting at Microsoft: “You Never Understood the First Thing About This!” Yet another blowhard who gets to write a never-ending mantra of Psychobabble. Ewan Spence of Forbes is another one. Where and how these guys get to write for major publications has got to be about wealth and connections and nothing more.
Yeah I did shoehorn in some of my personal tangents but that's what I do on Sundays.
You're assuming that most people think the same way as you. They don't, which is why Apple still sells a shit ton of Macs and has the customer sat ratings that it enjoys. My 2018 MBP is my favorite Mac ever, and yes, I've used them since the 9" b&w screen.
I’ll second your experience here. After using my work 2018 MBP15 for 6 months now, I think it is is the best laptop Apple has made. I’ve used a 2015 MBP15 (retina), a 2012 MBP12 (unibody), and 2008 MBP15 (aluminum), and the 2018 is better than those machines in most respects. Always found myself using the last model year for each gen.
The thinness of the 4th gen MBP15 is great. I like the feel of the keyboard. Fit and finish are a lot better than the prior models. I actually use the Touch Bar quite a bit in Terminal.app. There are changes I’d like to make to the design, but you have those desires for everything you buy. If it wasn’t for the reliability issues with the keyboard, nobody would be arguing about it and would have just moved on just like with every other generational change in Apple’s devices.
It's amazing to me that commenters here keep coming back to pet theories about merging iOS and macOS and getting a touchscreen MacBook Pro out of it. Despite years and years of Apple's foundational strategy of not pushing everything into one OS that tries but fails to be all things to all people, this keeps cropping up. Despite the examples like Windows 10 and the Surface Pro trying but failing to be all things to all people, this keeps cropping up. As shown upthread, Apple gives a big "No" to the convergence of operating systems. As seen before, Apple execs have said - as politely but bluntly as they can - they've looked at the MS Surface and did not come away convinced that they need to make one of those. Anyone who generally ponders and understands the big picture of how Apple operates would understand this, but still, it keeps cropping up.
Comments
https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks
Whatever keyboard you're using right now sure doesn't work well.
Okay, then you're being willfully obtuse when you say you cannot use a PCI card with any Mac right now, because it's not true. I'm going to venture to guess that you don't actually even need one, but you're complaining anyway. Anyone who did would've just figured out the solution and moved on with their life. Same with adapters for bespoke ports and card readers. I've had an external card reader for 10 years (since the last time I had a Mac with a built-in reader) and still haven't lost it. Not sure how you lose things so easily. The point is, there are *easy* solutions and you're unwilling to even try them because "reasons". The point of this article is that petulant whining from the minority of braying neckbeards who are unwilling to embrace change is not what moves the needle at Apple. Meanwhile most people are literally just getting their work done with the tools available.
Cool, a Forbes article! They're about as relevant as any random blogging platform these days, they literally take contributions from anyone who will write for them. There's no shortage of whiners on the internet complaining about their view of Apple's direction, but that's literally always been the case for forever.
A 24k gold cup? "Ha ha" /eyeroll
One cannot rationally bring "most people" into this equation because "most people" use Windows PCs not a Mac. To defend "most people" is in fact a defense of Windows.
Your eyes roll when I mention a 24k gold cup but those same eyes don't roll when I now bring to your attention the same thing -- the solid gold Apple Watch Edition? No need to roll the eyes when Apple literally has sold solid gold. And that worked out so well they don't sell it anymore. :-)
Let's face it. Mac users are diverse. I cannot speak for you or the majority of people anymore than you can speak for he majority "of MAC USERS." You see things as being near perfect in Cupertino whereas I do not. The difference is that I don't mind you Thinking Different. I'm happy for you in that you are easy to satisfy. Apple just kicks it out the door and you buy it and say nary a negative word. That's great! But for some reason you mind my differing thoughts, as per your emotionally-charged replies back to me. But as I've said, my beef is with the world's largest company, not with you. And that won't change even if you contend the entire world is on your side. Your defense of the status quo doesn't magically make me or anyone else who loves Macs somehow find contentment they never had before. Only Macs that satisfy our personal needs will do that. Thankfully Apple has its ears open a tad wider than some in the AppleInsider forums:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
I've Apple feedback there and other places and continue to do so. I even sent Steve Jobs direct emails in the past when he was still alive. I think it's important to express our thoughts even when those thoughts are deemed crazy, cause trouble, or don't follow Apple's design rules. There are those at Apple who still see genius in such remarks, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do. So go ahead and vilify me, but it's not the defense of the status quo that pushes the human race forward. Think Different!
A great article, naysayer whining and comedy gold in the comments.
This thread has it all.
Also: the CPU isn’t EOL, as the Xeon W-3200 series only started shipping in June, and the next generation likely won’t be released until at least 2021. USB4 won’t be shipping until later next year or even 2021. Modular doesn’t mean industry standard, and virtually everything in the MacPro is removable/replaceable: CPU, RAM, SSD cards, I/O card, GPU and the “Afterburner” custom FPGA video stream accelerator.
i appreciate the thought DED puts into his pieces.
The thinness of the 4th gen MBP15 is great. I like the feel of the keyboard. Fit and finish are a lot better than the prior models. I actually use the Touch Bar quite a bit in Terminal.app. There are changes I’d like to make to the design, but you have those desires for everything you buy. If it wasn’t for the reliability issues with the keyboard, nobody would be arguing about it and would have just moved on just like with every other generational change in Apple’s devices.