Hong Kong legislator urges Tim Cook to put 'values over profits, pls!'

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 65
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,448member
    maestro64 said:
    Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    that is pretty much the case in the USA too.
  • Reply 42 of 65
    ElCapitan said:
    Timmy always put profit over values. Had he not, many things at Apple would have looked different.
    Yea Apple might be bankrupt. Your short sighted “idealism” isn’t going to pay the bills.
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 43 of 65
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    And this situation would be different in any other country how?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 44 of 65

    DuhSesame said:
    JWSC said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.

    I don’t know about that.  For decades HK has been the gold standard in free market capitalism.  It disproved all those who said you needed lots of factories to have a strong economy.  It disproved all those who said you needed trade tariffs to protect the people from imports.  It disproved all those who said that you needed land and abundant raw material resources to be a global economic leader.  It disproved all those who said that you needed high taxes to keep the people heathy, well fed and educated.

    While it has its faults, as all great cities do, HK has been a shining example of how to do many things right.

    Until recently...

    The real deal is to tell the US government putting more pressure on the CCP, not judge the morality of a corporation.  They can't do anything here.
    Like the current US govt has any moral high ground to tell anyone anything.
    GeorgeBMaccincymacSpamSandwich
  • Reply 45 of 65
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    gatorguy
  • Reply 46 of 65
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    LOL... So then you would agree that the U.S.'s extradition treaty with Canada is invalid and they should release the political hostage we are keeping there?
    cincymac
  • Reply 47 of 65
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    LOL... So then you would agree that the U.S.'s extradition treaty with Canada is invalid and they should release the political hostage we are keeping there?
    Yes, Hong Kong's ill-fated new extradition law was no different from any other western extraction treaty. These protesters were brainwashed-washed by anti-China propagandists. It worked because most of the protesters are teenagers who are quite ignorant of what the real world worked. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 48 of 65
    tzeshan said:
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    LOL... So then you would agree that the U.S.'s extradition treaty with Canada is invalid and they should release the political hostage we are keeping there?
    Yes, Hong Kong's ill-fated new extradition law was no different from any other western extraction treaty. These protesters were brainwashed-washed by anti-China propagandists. It worked because most of the protesters are teenagers who are quite ignorant of what the real world worked. 
    Of course, it’s not like China has any history of severe human rights violations, right…?
  • Reply 49 of 65
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 283member
    longfang said:

    DuhSesame said:
    JWSC said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.

    I don’t know about that.  For decades HK has been the gold standard in free market capitalism.  It disproved all those who said you needed lots of factories to have a strong economy.  It disproved all those who said you needed trade tariffs to protect the people from imports.  It disproved all those who said that you needed land and abundant raw material resources to be a global economic leader.  It disproved all those who said that you needed high taxes to keep the people heathy, well fed and educated.

    While it has its faults, as all great cities do, HK has been a shining example of how to do many things right.

    Until recently...

    The real deal is to tell the US government putting more pressure on the CCP, not judge the morality of a corporation.  They can't do anything here.
    Like the current US govt has any moral high ground to tell anyone anything.
    Agreed that the US has had many serious violations of human rights. 
    It is terrible when this happens but it is a sad reality of US history. 
    * The comedian George Carlin talked about this where so called “rights” are really privileges which can be taken away. 
    - Examples; in the 1940s US citizens who had committed no crime had their property taken away & were put into concentration camps. 
    This action was upheld by the US Supreme Court. 
    - The US signed multiple treaties with the Native American tribes & the US government broke every single treaty. 

    * These examples apply to the Hong Kong situation. 
    Once a major power takes control of a territory, then “guaranteed” rights of this territory can be swept away and any treaty with a region in the borders of a powerful nation can be broken by that nation. 
    ** Conclusion; there are no “guaranteed” rights. 

    * These privileges need to be fought for to establish them & to try to maintain them.
    And I sympathize with the Hong Kong protestors. 
    Condemnation can be done but no company doing business within the borders of a superpower can overrule the will of that superpower. 

  • Reply 50 of 65
    After reading all the divided comments
    and other related stories here, it’s clear to me that:

    1) AppleInsider has taken a position in opposition to that of Tim Cook.

    2) They are wrong to take that position.

    If ever there were a shade of grey issue, this is it. On the one hand, an irrevocable decision has been made that makes Taiwan a part of Communist China. On the other hand, the residents of Taiwan prize their freedom.

    All the simplistic viewpoints expressed here and (subtly) editorially fall to pieces on the hard reality if those two salient facts of Taiwanese life. There are such things as tragedy in real life, and that’s what’s happening here.

    I personally choose to take Tim Cook at his word. He’s always come across to me as a straight shooter. An earlier AppleInsider article literally accused Tim Cook of “kowtowing” to the Chinese. A more insulting term is hard to visualize, but it clearly illustrates that the AppleInsider editorial function thinks Tim Cook is lying.

    But because Tim Cook is not even close to being known as a liar, in my book that puts the onus on AppleInsider to either prove it or retract it.

    It’s likely they’ll do neither, and that would put a mark against them in my book. Which frankly would sadden me.



    edited October 2019 GeorgeBMaccincymac
  • Reply 51 of 65
    sacto joe said:
    After reading all the divided comments
    and other related stories here, it’s clear to me that:

    You missed that this is about Hong Kong, not Taiwan. 
  • Reply 52 of 65
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,987member
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    LOL... So then you would agree that the U.S.'s extradition treaty with Canada is invalid and they should release the political hostage we are keeping there?
    Speaking as a Canadian, and seeing how the US is abusing the treaty re, the case of Meng Wanzhou, I think the treaty should be reexamined, possibly cancelled. The case is bogus, and the US is letting Canada take the heat from China so they can use her as a bargaining chip. We are unwillingly being forced to hold her hostage for the US.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 53 of 65
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    I totally agree with Tim here! So many times already and times to come, these kind of things have been developed for benign positive reasons, but then abused by shitty people and organizations to target the innocent. Just look what has become of social media platforms...havens for haters like racists, Nazis, bullies etc...the cesspools of humanity! 
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 54 of 65
    It’s worth noting that the HKMap application is available on the open web accessible by iPhones and so nobody is actually deprived of the information by this. I would prefer Apple taking a stand on the side of the good guys, but this probably isn’t a hill worth dying over. Cook has had his users’ backs when it’s legal to do so. In issues such as privacy and iMessage he has taken courageous stands. Not sure if we can ask more of him than that.
    bb-15
  • Reply 55 of 65
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    svanstrom said:
    tzeshan said:
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    LOL... So then you would agree that the U.S.'s extradition treaty with Canada is invalid and they should release the political hostage we are keeping there?
    Yes, Hong Kong's ill-fated new extradition law was no different from any other western extraction treaty. These protesters were brainwashed-washed by anti-China propagandists. It worked because most of the protesters are teenagers who are quite ignorant of what the real world worked. 
    Of course, it’s not like China has any history of severe human rights violations, right…?
    Yes, China outlaws LGBTQ. China outlaws smoking marijuana.
  • Reply 56 of 65
    Ciprol said:
    Supporting violence for personal political gain, not much better or worse than Trump! Tim is just being responsible and not meddling in foreign domestic politics, per US Congress and public opinion.
    Good lord. Break free of your programming. Here's how it works. Violent far-left thugs such as Antifa attack Trump supporters daily, nobody cares, media doesn't cover it. Trump supporter defends himself, media is all over it "Hey we got a nazi".
  • Reply 57 of 65
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Ciprol said:
    Supporting violence for personal political gain, not much better or worse than Trump! Tim is just being responsible and not meddling in foreign domestic politics, per US Congress and public opinion.
    Good lord. Break free of your programming. Here's how it works. Violent far-left thugs such as Antifa attack Trump supporters daily, nobody cares, media doesn't cover it. Trump supporter defends himself, media is all over it "Hey we got a nazi".
    Did you get that nonsense from FauxNews or something even more far / crazy right?
  • Reply 58 of 65
    Ciprol said:
    Supporting violence for personal political gain, not much better or worse than Trump! Tim is just being responsible and not meddling in foreign domestic politics, per US Congress and public opinion.
    Good lord. Break free of your programming. Here's how it works. Violent far-left thugs such as Antifa attack Trump supporters daily, nobody cares, media doesn't cover it. Trump supporter defends himself, media is all over it "Hey we got a nazi".
    And since you can't find that in regular media that isn't just proof of it being true, but also proof that all leftist people control the world and have secret meetings planning how to do evil things to you?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 59 of 65
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,034member
    longfang said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    And this situation would be different in any other country how?
    In the US anyone has the ability to make something of themselves and start their own business and be successful, there is nothing stopping anyone other than themselves. However, just people someone choose not to pursue this path for themselves, does not mean the rest of the US is there to keep them down. I tire of people thinking they are not as rich or success as Bill Gate is due to companies holding them down or Bill Gate doing things which keep people from doing more with their lives. Anyone in the US with a better idea always has the ability to be successful. Just listen to the podcast "How I Built This" you'll learn about lots of people who had nothing more than a good idea and turn it into a great product and company. In no other country does this happen more than the US.
  • Reply 60 of 65
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,034member
    svanstrom said:
    maestro64 said:
    tzm41 said:
    The Hong Kong legislature is the prime example of putting profits over values. They are almost useless for passing laws and regulations to protect the mass from the oligarchs, who control land supply, housing price, and profit distribution... Like Li Ka-shing basically robbed the dream out of all Hong Kongers, and now he moved away with his money.
    I personally believe what we are seeing in Hong Kong is more about what you pointed out than anything else. HK has business owners and working class two distinctly different classes of people. Keep in mind HK was a trading port for a long time, things were made in mainland china and move through HK to points world wide. Those who managed the trade made all the profits, Over many year HK imported people from all over the world to serve those who drive the trade business and they are now seeing they have no future and that future will be far worse once mainland China rolls around the border in 30 yrs. Those with money when this happen will be fine and everyone else will loose.
    This literally started with a law that would tear down the two systems-barrier, allowing hongkongers to willy-nilly get deported into mainland extrajudicial holding facilities for unwanted citizens; and the first of the five demands is literally to have that bill completely killed… and… Your take from all that is that clearly it must all be a socioeconomic class struggle?

    Are you one of those white upper middle class first year university students that start every other sentence by referencing either Marx or Lenin? 
    I think you need to check your understanding, the extradition law is about Chinese Citizen who went to HK to avoid China law, (I am not going argue whether we agree with Chinese laws) this is no difference if any person leaving one country to another to avoid the law. Home countries has right to pull back a citizen of their country who is trying to avoid the law. Unless you believe anyone is free to cross any border and are an automatic citizen of the new country and no longer subject to the law of the previous country. Even with that, Canada will not extradite anyone to the US state which could face the death penalty. Even with extradition treats and laws, countries still refuse to honor them in particular cases. If HKers are worry about extraditing pollical enemies of the Chinese government, they can decide not to extradite, but now murders in China can jump the boarder in to HK and do not have to worry about being extradited and live to kill people in HK. yeah they thought this one through.

    BTW I am far from being university student let alone starting out from Middle class, I personally worked hard and earn everything I have, I made my own success. So I am no Marx or Lenin who uses everyone else money until nothing is left while pulling everyone down to the least common denominator.

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