Apple's Lisa Jackson explains successes, struggles of environmental initiatives

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Comments

  • Reply 22 of 36
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    Radio_Signal
  • Reply 23 of 36
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 
  • Reply 24 of 36
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 25 of 36
    leehamm said:
    I am curious where those solar panels are. The angle does not look right for Cupertino.
    Doesn't Apple have a massive solar farm in North Carolina?
  • Reply 26 of 36
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
  • Reply 27 of 36
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    fastasleep
  • Reply 28 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    leehamm said:
    I am curious where those solar panels are. The angle does not look right for Cupertino.
    Doesn't Apple have a massive solar farm in North Carolina?
    They do, but to give you an idea of the scale needed to run a single data center the initial farm encompassed an area the size of about 110 football fields. That was not nearly enough to 100% power the one Apple data center. Since then they've doubled it,  so in order to produce enough power for one lone data center required clearing roughly 400 acres to order to install solar panels. I'm not sure that's a great trade-off. 

    Fun fact; Even that 400 acres of solar panels isn't enough to ensure there's always power available so Apple also added a bio-gas generator for those cloudy-for-days times. 
  • Reply 29 of 36
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    I give you the last 100 years of the death and destruction of progressives and you chose to ignore it. You try to provide some kind of strange balance by giving a link to some story about whacko that probably needs to be incarcerated. Take a look at what happened in Minneapolis last week. People can’t even leave a rally without being sucker punched, p*ssed on, on otherwise generally harassed. I know, I know, you’ll come up with some justification that they are nothing but white supremacists, yadda, yadda.

    Again I ask you do you think THE AVERAGE person is going to go get news from India Today or Al Jazeera? Don’t attempt to push on me that AVERAGE people have lives on don’t scrub AI and China Power for the latest in what’s going on. Go complain to CNN and MSNBC for not reporting on those stories.
  • Reply 30 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    I give you the last 100 years of the death and destruction of progressives and you chose to ignore it. You try to provide some kind of strange balance by giving a link to some story about whacko that probably needs to be incarcerated. Take a look at what happened in Minneapolis last week. People can’t even leave a rally without being sucker punched, p*ssed on, on otherwise generally harassed. I know, I know, you’ll come up with some justification that they are nothing but white supremacists, yadda, yadda.

    Again I ask you do you think THE AVERAGE person is going to go get news from India Today or Al Jazeera? Don’t attempt to push on me that AVERAGE people have lives on don’t scrub AI and China Power for the latest in what’s going on. Go complain to CNN and MSNBC for not reporting on those stories.
    Wasn't this article about environmental initiatives? So what the heck are you two going on about, shoehorning people into faceless political factions while ascribing a multitude of horrible character traits common to all members you've hung a silly tag on. All this de-humanizing has gotten far out of hand. Please stop.
    edited October 2019 fastasleep
  • Reply 31 of 36
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    I give you the last 100 years of the death and destruction of progressives and you chose to ignore it. You try to provide some kind of strange balance by giving a link to some story about whacko that probably needs to be incarcerated. Take a look at what happened in Minneapolis last week. People can’t even leave a rally without being sucker punched, p*ssed on, on otherwise generally harassed. I know, I know, you’ll come up with some justification that they are nothing but white supremacists, yadda, yadda.

    Again I ask you do you think THE AVERAGE person is going to go get news from India Today or Al Jazeera? Don’t attempt to push on me that AVERAGE people have lives on don’t scrub AI and China Power for the latest in what’s going on. Go complain to CNN and MSNBC for not reporting on those stories.
    So I looked up the violence you spoke of in MN. Yeah. That was ugly. But he fact that you that THAT jars you, yet you don't speak of Charlottesville, James Fields Jr, or Heather Heyer, speaks volumes about you. Progressives want to live. White supremacists want to kill those who they don't like. I have no regard/respect for them.

    "I give you the last 100 years"
    WHAT last 100 years? Saying something happened in 100 years doesn't specify what you're speaking of! The last 100 years of progressives saw 12 year old children stop working in coal mines and factories. It saw people get Medicaid, voting rights and civil rights. THAT'S what you object to? Color me surprised.

    The average person should have access to the WORLD wide web. As such, India Today, Al Jazeera, AppleInsider, et al, SHOULD BE as common a commodity as anything else. Or do you want 'foreign stuff' pigeon-holed and the lives of 'others' kept separate, segregated, disparate, and uncared for? It would really make it easy to dehumanize 'others,' wouldn't it? The less you know, the less you care. 

    @Gatorguy, I hope you'll forgive me, but I really am glad AI has allowed this discourse to expose how much the world IS interconnected. And that topics of importance don't exist in silos.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 32 of 36
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    I give you the last 100 years of the death and destruction of progressives and you chose to ignore it. You try to provide some kind of strange balance by giving a link to some story about whacko that probably needs to be incarcerated. Take a look at what happened in Minneapolis last week. People can’t even leave a rally without being sucker punched, p*ssed on, on otherwise generally harassed. I know, I know, you’ll come up with some justification that they are nothing but white supremacists, yadda, yadda.

    Again I ask you do you think THE AVERAGE person is going to go get news from India Today or Al Jazeera? Don’t attempt to push on me that AVERAGE people have lives on don’t scrub AI and China Power for the latest in what’s going on. Go complain to CNN and MSNBC for not reporting on those stories.
    So I looked up the violence you spoke of in MN. Yeah. That was ugly. But he fact that you that THAT jars you, yet you don't speak of Charlottesville, James Fields Jr, or Heather Heyer, speaks volumes about you. Progressives want to live. White supremacists want to kill those who they don't like. I have no regard/respect for them.

    "I give you the last 100 years"
    WHAT last 100 years? Saying something happened in 100 years doesn't specify what you're speaking of! The last 100 years of progressives saw 12 year old children stop working in coal mines and factories. It saw people get Medicaid, voting rights and civil rights. THAT'S what you object to? Color me surprised.

    The average person should have access to the WORLD wide web. As such, India Today, Al Jazeera, AppleInsider, et al, SHOULD BE as common a commodity as anything else. Or do you want 'foreign stuff' pigeon-holed and the lives of 'others' kept separate, segregated, disparate, and uncared for? It would really make it easy to dehumanize 'others,' wouldn't it? The less you know, the less you care. 

    @Gatorguy, I hope you'll forgive me, but I really am glad AI has allowed this discourse to expose how much the world IS interconnected. And that topics of importance don't exist in silos.
    Progressives do not "want to live" they want everyone to conform to what their idea of life is. You don't conform you don't live.

    Again, I give you the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Venezuela, Germany, all progressive programs that killed millions of people.

    Having access and the time of day to scour through millions of websites is not something the AVERAGE person has time to do. That is why they rely on the major news organizations to correctly report on what is going on. You find something you are more interested in, then you go and research that. You have a family? Wife and kids?

    Allow me to condemn right here and now every illicit act of violence designed to hurt others on the basis of their color, beliefs, and anything else that I missed. You happy now? ($5 says you won't.)
  • Reply 33 of 36
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    Oh, I see — another Breitbart-educated commenter. Literally nobody in reality actually equates contemporary "progressive" political views with oppressive Communist/totalitarian regimes of the past. What utter ridiculousness.

    On another note, I find the idea that interest in environmental concerns are somehow a partisan issue that only "progressives" care about to be terribly depressing. Ever heard of any of these things:

    • National Environmental Policy Act
    • The Environmental Protection Agency
    • Clean Air Act Extension 
    • Marine Mammal Protection Act
    • Safe Drinking Water Act 
    • Endangered Species Act 

    These all happened under fucking Nixon of all Presidents.  Guess what's happening to all of them now?


    What’s your point? Overreaching progressive programs are bad no matter what president they were enacted under. Progressives couldn’t care less about the environment. All of these programs sound awesome but get ugly fast when you look past their name. 
    It's about control. Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India. Yet everyone freaks out when the States removed themselves from that joke of a climate accord.
    "progressive programs are bad" "progressives couldn't care less about the environment" "everyone is stone dead quiet"

    Bullshit. Either you work in some industry that prefers we loosen protections against pollution and conserving biodiversity for your own personal gains, or you're just parroting the right-wing talking points being pedaled to further those ideas and divide the populace.

    There's plenty of quality, in-depth journalism about worldwide pollution concerns. People are most definitely talking about those two countries, however when it comes to the Paris Agreement, China, India, and the US are all signatories. The US can't withdraw until 2020, if it gives notice at its first opportunity on Nov 4 of this year, which seems to be the intent. And yeah, everyone freaked out because guess what, China and India are still in without us if we leave. Not to mention, people tend to concern themselves with their own nation's politics more than that of other nations, considering they have an influence in one and not the other. 

    To use a left-wing talking point I’m for dirty air and dirty water. Don’t tell anyone but I have a secret stash of the clean stuff hidden away from everyone else...  :D


    "Everyone is stone dead quiet about the two worst polluters on the planet, China and India."

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2166542/air-pollution-killing-1-million-people-and-costing-chinese
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/asia/china-air-pollution-miscarriages-study.html
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs
    https://chinapower.csis.org/air-quality/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2019/08/cost-india-deadly-air-pollution-190828125544254.html
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/images-from-nasa-reveal-crop-burning-the-reason-behind-increase-in-delhi-pollution-1609023-2019-10-14
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49729291
    http://aqicn.org/map/india/

    When you say, "everyone," could you expound on that?
    Kudos to you. You managed to bookmark the few articles calling them out. 

    When faced with reality, you obfuscate. When presented with details your rebuttal of them is, those are the only "few" that exist.
    I'm sorry you proved me right: if walks like a troll and squawks like a troll...
    I'll feed you no more.
    But I am glad to have joined Scooby and those meddling kids, now everyone knows you for what you are.
    And no, you wouldn't have gotten away with it.
    Oh no, someone doesn’t like it when their tactics are used against them... 

    Obfuscate? Other than your one link to the NYT how many normal people here in the States visit any of those sites? I don’t know one person who goes to Al Jazeera, India Today, or China Power for news. How many do you know?

    Instead we get the blather from MSNBC, CNN, and the other “mainstream” organizations that people actually pay attention to telling us how bad we are and avoid criticism of where a majority of the pollution is from.
    This exchange began with you talking about how progressives are. I shared a link to magat individual calling for the wholesale murder of liberals while proudly displaying a noose and you said- NOTHING.

    "Tricks?" I've used tricks? Point them out. Specify what I've said/typed/done that can remotely be construed as "tricks."

    You don't know anyone who goes to news sources other than those passively spoon-fed to them via the boob-tube? I believe you. I truly do. I believe that comports to your narrative of "normal people." Ironically, we're having this discourse Where? Where the normal people I know Actively pursue information/knowledge. Researching subjects to gather more depth than that provided in a 3 minute snippet is our norm. We don't take offense at learning we know less than we thought we did. We take that as an opportunity/invitation/motivation to seek greater understanding. As such, we make this a smaller, more connected world by going to sites based all over. As such, we PROGRESS from being strangers who don't care about our impact on one another, and become neighbors we haven't met, Yet.



    I give you the last 100 years of the death and destruction of progressives and you chose to ignore it. You try to provide some kind of strange balance by giving a link to some story about whacko that probably needs to be incarcerated. Take a look at what happened in Minneapolis last week. People can’t even leave a rally without being sucker punched, p*ssed on, on otherwise generally harassed. I know, I know, you’ll come up with some justification that they are nothing but white supremacists, yadda, yadda.

    Again I ask you do you think THE AVERAGE person is going to go get news from India Today or Al Jazeera? Don’t attempt to push on me that AVERAGE people have lives on don’t scrub AI and China Power for the latest in what’s going on. Go complain to CNN and MSNBC for not reporting on those stories.
    So I looked up the violence you spoke of in MN. Yeah. That was ugly. But he fact that you that THAT jars you, yet you don't speak of Charlottesville, James Fields Jr, or Heather Heyer, speaks volumes about you. Progressives want to live. White supremacists want to kill those who they don't like. I have no regard/respect for them.

    "I give you the last 100 years"
    WHAT last 100 years? Saying something happened in 100 years doesn't specify what you're speaking of! The last 100 years of progressives saw 12 year old children stop working in coal mines and factories. It saw people get Medicaid, voting rights and civil rights. THAT'S what you object to? Color me surprised.

    The average person should have access to the WORLD wide web. As such, India Today, Al Jazeera, AppleInsider, et al, SHOULD BE as common a commodity as anything else. Or do you want 'foreign stuff' pigeon-holed and the lives of 'others' kept separate, segregated, disparate, and uncared for? It would really make it easy to dehumanize 'others,' wouldn't it? The less you know, the less you care. 

    @Gatorguy, I hope you'll forgive me, but I really am glad AI has allowed this discourse to expose how much the world IS interconnected. And that topics of importance don't exist in silos.
    Progressives do not "want to live" they want everyone to conform to what their idea of life is. You don't conform you don't live.

    Again, I give you the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Venezuela, Germany, all progressive programs that killed millions of people.

    Having access and the time of day to scour through millions of websites is not something the AVERAGE person has time to do. That is why they rely on the major news organizations to correctly report on what is going on. You find something you are more interested in, then you go and research that. You have a family? Wife and kids?

    Allow me to condemn right here and now every illicit act of violence designed to hurt others on the basis of their color, beliefs, and anything else that I missed. You happy now? ($5 says you won't.)
    It is far more than disingenuous to attribute the actions of communist China, communist Cuba, Venezuela, Nazi Germany, or the USSR to progressivism. Those power grabs bear no resemblance to the works of FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, Reuther, Evers, King, the suffragists, or other great Americans I fail to name. It is the work of someone who needs to spin and distort so that the world comports to small-minded, outdated mores of times that should no more come back than slavery.

    I can only hope I've read a million websites in my life. I'm glad I don't passively allow TV to shape my life, but actively live to the fullest, with my family, using resources such as the internet to provide info that I don't expect to get from 4/5 sources as they cater to MTV attention spans.

    $5 says I won't what? Condemn violence? I do. But I'm a reformed Marine, I've committed my share of violence on this planet.That being said, show me a nazi, klansman or 'proud boy' trying to make America "conform to what their idea of life is. You don't conform you don't live,"  and I'll hand you that fiver right before I do exactly what your tax dollars trained me to do- defend my country from all threats, foreign and ESPECIALLY domestic.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 34 of 36
    thttht Posts: 5,421member
    gatorguy said:
    leehamm said:
    I am curious where those solar panels are. The angle does not look right for Cupertino.
    Doesn't Apple have a massive solar farm in North Carolina?
    They do, but to give you an idea of the scale needed to run a single data center the initial farm encompassed an area the size of about 110 football fields. That was not nearly enough to 100% power the one Apple data center. Since then they've doubled it,  so in order to produce enough power for one lone data center required clearing roughly 400 acres to order to install solar panels. I'm not sure that's a great trade-off. 

    Fun fact; Even that 400 acres of solar panels isn't enough to ensure there's always power available so Apple also added a bio-gas generator for those cloudy-for-days times. 
    The fun fact isn’t the way the Maiden data center is designed to work, and the Bloom energy bio-gas generators were part of the planning from the beginning, mostly as backup power for the when the grid goes out. Not sure if they use it continuously.

    It’s very much like residential solar systems, where the panels feed the grid, and the house uses grid power. For those residential solar panels you see on roofs, most of them are set up to feed the grid, and the residence’s energy bill is typically based on the net energy transferred to and from the house. (Some places, it is only net energy transferred into the house, so you are always charged, and never credited if you put more energy into the grid than you use). They can claim this facility is 100% renewable because their panels and biogas generators (fed by landfill methane) are putting in as much energy into the grid as they are using from the grid.

    This is a net win because most electrical energy use is diurnal, when people are awake they are using energy, and most people are awake during the day, when solar is most effective. This energy added to the grid during the day means the grid operator won’t have to source electricity from a coal plants or gas plants that need to ramp up during the summer or during the day.

    400 acres isn’t a lot of land. It’s an area that is about 0.8 mile square, and a data center is a lot more energy intense than a house or office building or a grocery store, so it will need more solar panel area per data center area. You can see the Maiden facility using your map of choice:

    The Bloom energy biogas generators is the small square on the far left, the power transformer station just below it. This image includes the data center addition, (smaller rectangle), to the data center, (big rectangle above it). One of Apple’s solar panel farms to the right of them. Apple has a lot of solar panel farms across the USA. The data center itself is on like 180 acres of land. It’s pretty hard for urbanite people to understand scale when talking in acres, but 400 acres isn’t a lot.

    For scale, here is a zoom out:

    From space, you’ll see the industrial complex on the bottom before you see Apple’s data center and panels. I guess there are thousands of people commuted to Maiden for work while they live in a bigger city? Anyways, Maiden High School, asterisk like structure northeast of Maiden, with its football field is to left of it. Lots of buildings a lot bigger than a football field in the picture.

    Apple’s solar facility is not massive in North Carolina. Or perhaps, it’s relative to expectations, but it looks pretty small to me. Solar farms to me aren’t all that big. And most buildings aren’t as energy intense as a data center, and most of them will do fine with rooftop solar.
    fastasleepsarthos
  • Reply 35 of 36
    Yawn
    What are you doing for the environment? 
    Fuck all. Nor are you. I also don't care... well, I don't care about horse shit environmental politically motivated death cults. 
  • Reply 36 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    tht said:
    gatorguy said:
    leehamm said:
    I am curious where those solar panels are. The angle does not look right for Cupertino.
    Doesn't Apple have a massive solar farm in North Carolina?
    They do, but to give you an idea of the scale needed to run a single data center the initial farm encompassed an area the size of about 110 football fields. That was not nearly enough to 100% power the one Apple data center. Since then they've doubled it,  so in order to produce enough power for one lone data center required clearing roughly 400 acres to order to install solar panels. I'm not sure that's a great trade-off. 

    Fun fact; Even that 400 acres of solar panels isn't enough to ensure there's always power available so Apple also added a bio-gas generator for those cloudy-for-days times. 
    The fun fact isn’t the way the Maiden data center is designed to work, and the Bloom energy bio-gas generators were part of the planning from the beginning, mostly as backup power for the when the grid goes out. Not sure if they use it continuously.

    It’s very much like residential solar systems, where the panels feed the grid, and the house uses grid power. For those residential solar panels you see on roofs, most of them are set up to feed the grid, and the residence’s energy bill is typically based on the net energy transferred to and from the house. (Some places, it is only net energy transferred into the house, so you are always charged, and never credited if you put more energy into the grid than you use). They can claim this facility is 100% renewable because their panels and biogas generators (fed by landfill methane) are putting in as much energy into the grid as they are using from the grid.

    This is a net win because most electrical energy use is diurnal, when people are awake they are using energy, and most people are awake during the day, when solar is most effective. This energy added to the grid during the day means the grid operator won’t have to source electricity from a coal plants or gas plants that need to ramp up during the summer or during the day.

    400 acres isn’t a lot of land. It’s an area that is about 0.8 mile square, and a data center is a lot more energy intense than a house or office building or a grocery store, so it will need more solar panel area per data center area. You can see the Maiden facility using your map of choice:

    The Bloom energy biogas generators is the small square on the far left, the power transformer station just below it. This image includes the data center addition, (smaller rectangle), to the data center, (big rectangle above it). One of Apple’s solar panel farms to the right of them. Apple has a lot of solar panel farms across the USA. The data center itself is on like 180 acres of land. It’s pretty hard for urbanite people to understand scale when talking in acres, but 400 acres isn’t a lot.

    For scale, here is a zoom out:

    From space, you’ll see the industrial complex on the bottom before you see Apple’s data center and panels. I guess there are thousands of people commuted to Maiden for work while they live in a bigger city? Anyways, Maiden High School, asterisk like structure northeast of Maiden, with its football field is to left of it. Lots of buildings a lot bigger than a football field in the picture.

    Apple’s solar facility is not massive in North Carolina. Or perhaps, it’s relative to expectations, but it looks pretty small to me. Solar farms to me aren’t all that big. And most buildings aren’t as energy intense as a data center, and most of them will do fine with rooftop solar.
    Great informative post!
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