The "Apple factor". It's not difficult to put a price on it,
$700+ for a phone
$400+ for a watch
$329+ for a tablet
$1000+ for a laptop
$1200+ for a desktop
That's what the Apple factor costs. No need to be coy about it.
Did not read anything about customer support. Roku has none that I could find, which is why I returned it. Device never worked out of the box, always had to keep paring it. Should have bought Apple TV from the start.
I prefer to use the remote compared with the iPhone app. Just old Apple TV 3 upstairs the old aluminium remote has died (it got squashed somehow to which no child has confessed) so I do use the iPhone remote there. I’m not going to buy a new remote. Will just wait until an updated 4K come out and shift our current 4K upstairs.
Apple has a perfect test case for UWB with the Apple TV and Remote. I too have young pups and they've lost remotes like they have Degrees in the art. I wonder if Apple is going to rapidly integrate the U1 chip into the next A13 based Apple TV allowing the Apple Remote app to know what TV is closest in proximity and select it first and perhaps using UWB to find a lost remote via Find My
The AppleTV remote is just horrible. I “upgraded” my parents to an AppleTV since their Visio stopped supporting a couple apps. They hated the remote even more than I did. Ended up taking the AppleTV for myself (I already had one) and they have been MUCH happier with the Roku.
I’m convinced that Apple keeps the touch surface just so that it annoys you enough to actually use the Siri which actually isn’t half bad. Also it’s not comfortable so I recommend this case which is awesome.
Ha! Didn't know they made a case for the remote - previous poster mentioned one so I went to Amazon and ordered the Elago you mentioned but in black for $5.99. Thanks for confirming I did buy a good one. Looks like it prevents trying to scroll the wrong side of the remote too.
I use both and enjoy Apple TV a lot more. Much more elegant to just grab an app to move like on an iPhone instead of the clunky way Roku does. ATV has folders. A great way to organize your apps. No such feature on Roku. ATV freezes an apps state if you exit to the control center and return. You can quickly go from one app to another and it goes back to whatever show you are watching in the app. With ROKU, you have to scroll back to where the app resides and pretty much restart the app. It won't be right where you left off and you have to dig to find your show again if your app doesn't have a recently watched feature. And there are no games on ROKU. There is no Speedtest app, which I use often when AT&Ttv rudely tells me that MY network seems to be underperforming while their over 2 year beta cloud-vcr is buffering on my Google Fiber network. And ATV is more harmonious with app controls. Closed Caption is always in the same location. With ROKU each app is different and some not present at all and you have to bring dow ROKU's TV settings to trigger CC. Apple TV is pricey for sure, but you can find great deals on gently used ones on Ebay. Picked up a 64G for $125.
@Gatorguy I saw the Tegra X1+ in the leak. I'm interested in the what performance gains we see.
That being said I'm curious to whether Apple goes
A12 or A13 in the next Apple TV. I think they'll put in Wifi 6 and the UWB chip. I almost bought a Shield twice. Was going to run my Plex server on it but I decided on a mini pc instead.
Roku. Sigh. People that talk about the Roku as being competitive are the same people that try to sell you on the Kindle Fires being as good as iPads. "Move along sir ..I have no time for your busllshit today"
And those who complain about the Siri remote haven't tried the horror that is Roku remote. 50 clicks to get something done that Siri can do in a few swipes.
Indeed I haven't tried the Roku remote, but I do not like the Siri remote. Siri is rather useless for navigating and finding content - she's great for e.g. turning off the lights in the TV-room and the hallway outside, but navigating? No.
And while the Roku remote does seem to have a couple of useless buttons - why would I want special buttons for streaming services on a box like this ? - the AppleTV remote needs more. Just adding mute and "skip time interval" would help a lot. The clicking of the left and right surface don't work 100% of the time, and it's annoying.
Video streaming quality? Not all 4K is created equal.
Video streaming quality depends on a number of factors, but the biggest is your own internet speed, soooo as you might imagine that's been left out of the comparison because everyone's speed is different (but figure you need at least 50mbps for good HD streaming at 100mbps for 4K streaming). The fact that AppleTV has Dolby Vision if your TV supports it is another huge quality plus.
Maybe this comparison needs to be updated with this information about privacy:- I use an Apple TV 4k with my Sony A8 tv wifi turned off. I only turned it on to update the TV firmware - which also updated the Google TV software to include ads on your home screen.... lovely. Another reason not to use the built in TV 'smart' software, on top of its poor performance (the newer Sony OLEDs even have less RAM than the poorly reviewed A8g smart software).
""Over-the-Top streaming devices such as Roku and Amazon Fire TV, which currently sell between for $30 to $100, are cheap alternatives to smart TVs for cord-cutters. Instead of charging more for the hardware or the membership, Roku and Amazon Fire TV monetize their platforms through advertisements, which rely on tracking users’ viewing habits," said Hooman Mohajeri Moghaddam, one of the authors of the study by Princeton University."
"Google's tracker appeared on 975 of the top 1000 Roku apps, while Amazon's tracker appeared on 687 of the top 1000 Amazon Fire TV apps. However, many others trackers also ranked prominently across apps.
- "Out of 100 randomly selected channels on Roku and Amazon, we found 9 channels on Roku (e.g., “CBS News” and “News 5 Cleveland WEWS”) and 14 channels on the Fire TV (e.g., “NBC News” and “Travel Channel”) that leaked the title of the video to a tracking domain. On Roku, all video titles were leaked over unencrypted connections, exposing user video history to eavesdroppers. On Fire TV, only two channels (NBC News and WRAL) used an unencrypted connection when sending the title to tracking domains.""
oh, and by the way:-
""OTT platforms provide privacy options that purport to limit tracking on their devices: “Limit Ad Tracking” on Roku and ”Disable Interest-based Ads” on Amazon Fire TV. Our measurements show that these privacy options fall short of preventing tracking.
Turning on these options did not change the number of trackers contacted."
Maybe this comparison needs to be updated with this information about privacy:- I use an Apple TV 4k with my Sony A8 tv wifi turned off. I only turned it on to update the TV firmware - which also updated the Google TV software to include ads on your home screen.... lovely. Another reason not to use the built in TV 'smart' software, on top of its poor performance (the newer Sony OLEDs even have less RAM than the poorly reviewed A8g smart software).
""Over-the-Top streaming devices such as Roku and Amazon Fire TV, which currently sell between for $30 to $100, are cheap alternatives to smart TVs for cord-cutters. Instead of charging more for the hardware or the membership, Roku and Amazon Fire TV monetize their platforms through advertisements, which rely on tracking users’ viewing habits," said Hooman Mohajeri Moghaddam, one of the authors of the study by Princeton University."
"Google's tracker appeared on 975 of the top 1000 Roku apps, while Amazon's tracker appeared on 687 of the top 1000 Amazon Fire TV apps. However, many others trackers also ranked prominently across apps.
- "Out of 100 randomly selected channels on Roku and Amazon, we found 9 channels on Roku (e.g., “CBS News” and “News 5 Cleveland WEWS”) and 14 channels on the Fire TV (e.g., “NBC News” and “Travel Channel”) that leaked the title of the video to a tracking domain. On Roku, all video titles were leaked over unencrypted connections, exposing user video history to eavesdroppers. On Fire TV, only two channels (NBC News and WRAL) used an unencrypted connection when sending the title to tracking domains.""
oh, and by the way:-
""OTT platforms provide privacy options that purport to limit tracking on their devices: “Limit Ad Tracking” on Roku and ”Disable Interest-based Ads” on Amazon Fire TV. Our measurements show that these privacy options fall short of preventing tracking.
Turning on these options did not change the number of trackers contacted."
FWIW at least on the Roku platform you can opt-out of a lot of "personalized results" aka ad targeting, and personal information collection connected to it. 100%? Probably not. The Roku stuff perhaps and probably so, but certain 3rd party content providers may still collect information about what you watch, when, etc. when viewing their channels.
I've not looked to see if HBO or CBS knows what and when you watch their content on an Apple TV or not. I think that was an early bone of contention with the providers and I don't recall what the outcome is. What I do know as fact is your Apple TV does not try to be an ad-supported service and doesn't do some of the same in-depth collection of personal viewership. From a strict privacy position the Apple TV easily wins.
FWIW at least on the Roku platform you can opt-out of a lot of "personalized results" aka ad targeting, and personal information collection connected to it. 100%? Probably not. The Roku stuff perhaps and probably so, but certain 3rd party content providers may still collect information about what you watch, when, etc. when viewing their channels.
Here let me quote this bit again for the hard of reading (my bold on the quote):-
OTT platforms provide privacy options that purport to limit tracking on their devices: “Limit Ad Tracking” on Roku and ”Disable Interest-based Ads” on Amazon Fire TV. Our measurements show that these privacy options fall short of preventing tracking.
Turning on these options did not change the number of trackers contacted."
FWIW at least on the Roku platform you can opt-out of a lot of "personalized results" aka ad targeting, and personal information collection connected to it. 100%? Probably not. The Roku stuff perhaps and probably so, but certain 3rd party content providers may still collect information about what you watch, when, etc. when viewing their channels.
Here let me quote this bit again for the hard of reading (my bold on the quote):-
OTT platforms provide privacy options that purport to limit tracking on their devices: “Limit Ad Tracking” on Roku and ”Disable Interest-based Ads” on Amazon Fire TV. Our measurements show that these privacy options fall short of preventing tracking.
Turning on these options did not change the number of trackers contacted."
I have zero trouble reading.
Both sources, your "Flatpanel" and "Cordcutters" allude to the same thing: 3rd party content providers may still collect data about the shows you watch and when despite the platform provider itself no longer collecting data for targeted ads.
I have used Roku for several years, and it is a fantastic value. I have the Ultra, which is their top of the line player and cost me only $79 on sale and works flawlessly. About once a month it updates and reboots itself, which takes about 20 seconds. It's wireless and fast and I love it. I ditched cable tv entirely and use the Roku for all my needs. Tremendous free programming - much of which is commercial free. Apps like Tubi, Pluto, Bloomberg, YouTube, Newsy, PBS, TED, World News, Spotify and the Roku Channel - are all wonderful and free. And there are thousands of other free apps for it as well. Pretty much whatever you can imagine is available - all for a one-time cost of $79. It's crazy to pay for cable. You're wasting your money. Just buy a Roku and load those apps I mention and you'll see. And yes - if you have any subscription services like Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Redbox, HBO, ESPN, etc. - it'll play all those too. You'll wonder why you didn't make the switch sooner . . . .
Maybe this comparison needs to be updated with this information about privacy:- I use an Apple TV 4k with my Sony A8 tv wifi turned off. I only turned it on to update the TV firmware - which also updated the Google TV software to include ads on your home screen.... lovely. Another reason not to use the built in TV 'smart' software, on top of its poor performance (the newer Sony OLEDs even have less RAM than the poorly reviewed A8g smart software).
Even for the privacy-espousing Apple the defaults are "On" for your sharing of detailed personal use data and like everyone else Apple understands most users don't change defaults. Here's your opportunity to change what you can. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208511 Since most readers won't bother with the link (perhaps you included) unless they see a reason to read it, here are some reasons to be familiar with the data Apple collects by default and information on how to control what you can. Privacy and data collection settings are in several different places so even if you are aware it's going on and you may think you've opted out you might find you haven't.
"Apple collects information about your purchases, downloads, activity in the Apple TV app, and what and where you watch content in the Apple TV app and in connected apps on any of your supported devices" "If you grant permission for a third-party app to be connected to the Apple TV app, Apple will also collect this information from that app on any of your supported devices" "Information about what you’re watching will include what content you’re playing, when you played it, the device you played it from, and where in the content you paused or stopped watching. We also collect a detailed history of all playback activity for Apple TV channels and Apple TV+." To control it: On iOS and iPadOS, go to Settings > TV > Use Play History. On tvOS, go to Settings > Apps > TV > Use Play History.
"Apple collects information about your usage of the Apple TV app, including which of its features you use (for example, Up Next or Library), items you search for, notifications you interact with, content pages you browse or view "We use information about the movies and TV shows you purchase and download to offer advertising to ensure that Search Ads in the App Store and ads in Apple News and Stocks, where available, are relevant to you." (AKA targeted ads) "We create groups of people, called segments, who share similar characteristics and we use these groups for delivering targeted ads. Information about you is used to determine which segments you are assigned to, and thus, which ads you receive. " For more information on controls: https://support.apple.com/HT202074 Note: You can't opt-out from ad-tracking altogether AFAIK but you can control targeted ads sent your way. "we may share non-personal information about your transactions and viewing activity to Apple TV strategic partners, such as content owners"
No toggle controls I am aware of.
"When you set up the Apple TV app, you may be asked to grant permission for multiple applications at one time. Some of the apps may be apps that you do not yet have installed on that device, and your preferences will be applied if they are installed later." In other words you won't asked again? To control it: On iOS and iPadOS, in the Apple TV app, go to Account > Connected Apps, select the third-party app and turn it off. On tvOS, go to Settings > Apps > TV > Connect to TV, select the third-party app and turn it off.
"We retain personal information associated with your purchases, downloads, and viewing activity on the Apple TV app for different lengths of time...For purchases and downloads, that often requires at least a ten year retention period. We retain other information such as browsing activity and searches for up to two years."
No toggle controls that I am aware of
"We also compute a device trust score on your device when you attempt a purchase, using information about how you use your device, including the approximate number of phone calls or emails you send and receive. The submission is designed so Apple cannot learn the underlying values on your device. The score is stored for a fixed time on our servers."
No toggle controls that I am aware of
So even avoiding a smartTV interface still allows a whole lotta collection of personal information, and this is with Apple who would like to claim privacy is of the utmost importance. Many other services collect just as much and far more.
Comments
Apple has a perfect test case for UWB with the Apple TV and Remote. I too have young pups and they've lost remotes like they have Degrees in the art. I wonder if Apple is going to rapidly integrate the U1 chip into the next A13 based Apple TV allowing the Apple Remote app to know what TV is closest in proximity and select it first and perhaps using UWB to find a lost remote via Find My
https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Tegra-X1-Maxwell-GPU-vs-Apple-A10X-Fusion-GPU--PowerVR_6152_8072.247598.0.html
That being said I'm curious to whether Apple goes
A12 or A13 in the next Apple TV. I think they'll put in Wifi 6 and the UWB chip. I almost bought a Shield twice. Was going to
run my Plex server on it but I decided on a mini pc instead.
Roku. Sigh. People that talk about the Roku as being competitive are the same people that try to sell you on the Kindle Fires being as good as iPads.
"Move along sir ..I have no time for your busllshit today"
...up to 25 percent faster performance than the original Tegra X1 while integrating AI features to assist in upscaling and video playback.
Indeed I haven't tried the Roku remote, but I do not like the Siri remote. Siri is rather useless for navigating and finding content - she's great for e.g. turning off the lights in the TV-room and the hallway outside, but navigating? No.
And while the Roku remote does seem to have a couple of useless buttons - why would I want special buttons for streaming services on a box like this ? - the AppleTV remote needs more. Just adding mute and "skip time interval" would help a lot. The clicking of the left and right surface don't work 100% of the time, and it's annoying.
I use an Apple TV 4k with my Sony A8 tv wifi turned off. I only turned it on to update the TV firmware - which also updated the Google TV software to include ads on your home screen.... lovely. Another reason not to use the built in TV 'smart' software, on top of its poor performance (the newer Sony OLEDs even have less RAM than the poorly reviewed A8g smart software).
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1571722074
""Over-the-Top streaming devices such as Roku and Amazon Fire TV, which currently sell between for $30 to $100, are cheap alternatives to smart TVs for cord-cutters. Instead of charging more for the hardware or the membership, Roku and Amazon Fire TV monetize their platforms through advertisements, which rely on tracking users’ viewing habits," said Hooman Mohajeri Moghaddam, one of the authors of the study by Princeton University."
"Google's tracker appeared on 975 of the top 1000 Roku apps, while Amazon's tracker appeared on 687 of the top 1000 Amazon Fire TV apps. However, many others trackers also ranked prominently across apps.
I've not looked to see if HBO or CBS knows what and when you watch their content on an Apple TV or not. I think that was an early bone of contention with the providers and I don't recall what the outcome is. What I do know as fact is your Apple TV does not try to be an ad-supported service and doesn't do some of the same in-depth collection of personal viewership. From a strict privacy position the Apple TV easily wins.
https://www.cordcutters.com/roku-privacy-policy-and-ad-tracking-what-you-need-know
Both sources, your "Flatpanel" and "Cordcutters" allude to the same thing: 3rd party content providers may still collect data about the shows you watch and when despite the platform provider itself no longer collecting data for targeted ads.
BTW your source apparently did not understand there are two settings on Roku, one for Limit Ad Tracking and the other for "Smart TV Experience". Opt out of both. I have.
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/
Even for the privacy-espousing Apple the defaults are "On" for your sharing of detailed personal use data and like everyone else Apple understands most users don't change defaults. Here's your opportunity to change what you can.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208511
Since most readers won't bother with the link (perhaps you included) unless they see a reason to read it, here are some reasons to be familiar with the data Apple collects by default and information on how to control what you can. Privacy and data collection settings are in several different places so even if you are aware it's going on and you may think you've opted out you might find you haven't.
"Apple collects information about your purchases, downloads, activity in the Apple TV app, and what and where you watch content in the Apple TV app and in connected apps on any of your supported devices"
"If you grant permission for a third-party app to be connected to the Apple TV app, Apple will also collect this information from that app on any of your supported devices"
"Information about what you’re watching will include what content you’re playing, when you played it, the device you played it from, and where in the content you paused or stopped watching. We also collect a detailed history of all playback activity for Apple TV channels and Apple TV+."
To control it: On iOS and iPadOS, go to Settings > TV > Use Play History. On tvOS, go to Settings > Apps > TV > Use Play History.
"Apple collects information about your usage of the Apple TV app, including which of its features you use (for example, Up Next or Library), items you search for, notifications you interact with, content pages you browse or view
"We use information about the movies and TV shows you purchase and download to offer advertising to ensure that Search Ads in the App Store and ads in Apple News and Stocks, where available, are relevant to you." (AKA targeted ads)
"We create groups of people, called segments, who share similar characteristics and we use these groups for delivering targeted ads. Information about you is used to determine which segments you are assigned to, and thus, which ads you receive. "
For more information on controls: https://support.apple.com/HT202074
Note: You can't opt-out from ad-tracking altogether AFAIK but you can control targeted ads sent your way.
"we may share non-personal information about your transactions and viewing activity to Apple TV strategic partners, such as content owners"
No toggle controls I am aware of.
"When you set up the Apple TV app, you may be asked to grant permission for multiple applications at one time. Some of the apps may be apps that you do not yet have installed on that device, and your preferences will be applied if they are installed later." In other words you won't asked again?
To control it: On iOS and iPadOS, in the Apple TV app, go to Account > Connected Apps, select the third-party app and turn it off. On tvOS, go to Settings > Apps > TV > Connect to TV, select the third-party app and turn it off.
"We retain personal information associated with your purchases, downloads, and viewing activity on the Apple TV app for different lengths of time...For purchases and downloads, that often requires at least a ten year retention period.
We retain other information such as browsing activity and searches for up to two years."
No toggle controls that I am aware of
"We also compute a device trust score on your device when you attempt a purchase, using information about how you use your device, including the approximate number of phone calls or emails you send and receive. The submission is designed so Apple cannot learn the underlying values on your device. The score is stored for a fixed time on our servers."
No toggle controls that I am aware of
So even avoiding a smartTV interface still allows a whole lotta collection of personal information, and this is with Apple who would like to claim privacy is of the utmost importance. Many other services collect just as much and far more.