"...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members."
Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out. Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her. My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?" Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people? Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising? I mean, this isn't the 1980's. Gays are widely accepted. Gay marriage is legal in all states. Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important. I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.
Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.
Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers.
I live in a very liberal city and my gay friends are routinely yelled at, harassed, or worse, beaten within inches of their life. Not too long ago that happened to a gay woman in our historically gay-friendly neighborhood in front of a gay bar that I walk by every day.
If you think the Middle East is the only place people have to worry about being gay, then I don’t even know what to say. Maybe stop for a moment and think a little about what your argument looks like to other people who are literally just trying to live their lives without fearing for their own safety?
People don't give a fu** about males. When lesbians start getting killed often then the white knights will interfere. Even I feel slight fear whenever I hug a gay male, luckily I fight back but I have to look around in public since it can cause problems.
The story that breaks my heart the most was the kid killed for asking another boy to be his Valentine.
I live in a very liberal city and my gay friends are routinely yelled at, harassed, or worse, beaten within inches of their life. Not too long ago that happened to a gay woman in our historically gay-friendly neighborhood in front of a gay bar that I walk by every day.
If you think the Middle East is the only place people have to worry about being gay, then I don’t even know what to say. Maybe stop for a moment and think a little about what your argument looks like to other people who are literally just trying to live their lives without fearing for their own safety?
"...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members."
Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out. Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her. My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?" Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people? Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising? I mean, this isn't the 1980's. Gays are widely accepted. Gay marriage is legal in all states. Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important. I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.
Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.
Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers.
My guess those 17 states voted for Trump.
Hate to burst your little bubble, but a majority of the States did.
Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.
Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.
Odd.
Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way.
And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.
In this day and age who stays in the closet?
EXACTLY. As for who stays in the cl;oset? Males.
A lesbian is praised and worshiped and sexualized positively while a gay male receives death threats, is humiliated and beaten. Many young boys have been killed when they've come out.
Just stop it with the bull. You and I both know nothing you said is true in the States. None of it.
"...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members."
Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out. Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her. My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?" Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people? Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising? I mean, this isn't the 1980's. Gays are widely accepted. Gay marriage is legal in all states. Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important. I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.
Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.
Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers.
If that’s the case then why are there tones of lawsuits filed for wrongful termination and millions of dollars awarded in damages. No, you cannot be fired for any reason. The reason has to be specific and legal. Fired for non-performance? Okay. Fired for being a woman, too old, gay? Not okay and not legal. I live near St. Louis , Missouri and a gay St. Louis County cop was just awarded $20 million by a jury because he was passed over for promotion again and again in spite of having an exemplary record and receiving numerous awards.
This confirms you can't be treated differently for being gay.
I live in the states and saw this growing up. Luckily no one I know was killed but gay males were in the closet to avoid getting beat and humiliation and I'm not as old as you think either so this was pretty recent. Nothing has changed for males. Lesbians are glorified here for some strange reason to the point straight females will pretend to be bi for glorification and attention. I honestly don't give a sh** about your sexual orientation.
As for not true "in the States" refer to the articles above.
Here in lies the problem companies should have the right to fire people for any reason they might have. Special classes of people just breed hostility towards those people.
Anti-discrimination laws exist for a reason. Being protected from discrimination against does not make one "special", it's meant to prevent bigots from treating you differently than anyone else.
...personality disorders beyond homosexuality...
Oh, I see where you're going with this...
The problem is simple being gay can be a problem just like being a drunk can be a problem for a company. It comes down to how much your problem interfere with the companies mission. Firing somebody for being gay can be perfectly legitimate or a complete farce, it really depends upon context. It is no different than firing somebody that drinks too much and brings that problem to work.
Care to back this up with ... anything? I mean, I recognize it as flat-out bigotry, but I'd love to see you try to rationalize equating homosexuality with substance abuse.
I live in a very liberal city and my gay friends are routinely yelled at, harassed, or worse, beaten within inches of their life. Not too long ago that happened to a gay woman in our historically gay-friendly neighborhood in front of a gay bar that I walk by every day.
If you think the Middle East is the only place people have to worry about being gay, then I don’t even know what to say. Maybe stop for a moment and think a little about what your argument looks like to other people who are literally just trying to live their lives without fearing for their own safety?
People don't give a fu** about males. When lesbians start getting killed often then the white knights will interfere. Even I feel slight fear whenever I hug a gay male, luckily I fight back but I have to look around in public since it can cause problems.
The story that breaks my heart the most was the kid killed for asking another boy to be his Valentine.
I couldn't care less about anybody else's sexual preferences. If some women like other women, then go for it. I like big boobs, but I wouldn't say that it's the proudest moment in my life.
I do think some of the gay agenda has gone way too far in my opinion.
That recent business of having trans men compete in women's sports?
That is pure garbage, anti-science, anti-biology, cheating and pure discrimination against females. Males and females are not the same, no matter what a few mentally ill people claim.
I like big boobs, but I wouldn't say that it's proudest moment in my life.
Someone says that the proudest moment of their life was having the strength to come out decades ago and you equate that to both of you liking big boobs. Granted, that's not as deplorable as Wizard69 and AppleExposed's callous, anti-women, and anti-gay comments, but it's still weird as fuck.
I came here to read interesting discussions and memories about this person who clearly have been with apple for a long time. I found none.
I think people’s opinions what they think about homosexuals should be private. I do not want to hear about it.
Anyway, normally I get the feeling you don’t really advance in apple for a senior position? At least among retail the two most recent ones have been from outside the company. Is this something new for apple? I mean a “ordinary” employee getting to be a boss, not a boss getting to be more boss.
"...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members."
Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out. Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her. My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?" Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people? Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising? I mean, this isn't the 1980's. Gays are widely accepted. Gay marriage is legal in all states. Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important. I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.
Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.
Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
First of all, the ad hominem attack is not appreciated and not allowed. I suggest you don't repeat it.
Secondly, you do have a reasonable point wrt to employment law. Of course, people are typically not fired for being gay. The only exceptions I can imagine are religious organizations or private orgs/clubs that have clear-cut requirements and standards. Are you aware of any actual examples of people being fired, say, from a corporate position because it turns out they are gay? It certainly doesn't happen in public professions (I work in one...it wasn't even an issue 20 years ago).
Third, you're welcome to disagree with my assessment and view of her comment. Your lashing out about my "insecurities and jealousies" is both prohibited, and frankly, somewhat bizarre. I'm jealous of her? Uh, OK then. I'm "insecure" about....what? My sexual orientation? Did you even read the rest of the post? Either way, my opinion was honest and I stand by it. Now, I'm off to continue not worrying about the whole thing.
It’s not an ad hom — I didn’t call you those things, I said it’s been experience that I find people who say those things to be those things.
Second, I don’t need to do any employment law research. I live here, the law is clear — you can be fired for being gay in Louisiana. If you don’t take my word for it, read the Fast Company article I linked. We don’t have laws to protect employees from sexual discrimination firings. That’s just fact. Prove me wrong.
Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.
Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.
Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
If I could learn to ride a unicycle it would be my proudest moment. Especially if I could juggle at the same time. :-)
Well, yeah! My grad school adviser (same as for Ken Thompson at Cal Berkeley, of Unix fame) did that trick. That would be Elwyn Berlekamp of M.I.T. (prof at age 23), and chairman of three departments at UCB (math, computer science, and electrical engineering), R.I.P. One of his fave things (besides juggling 5 golf balls off the floor whilst chatting with his students) was to ride thru the halls of Berkeley's Evans (Cory?) Hall on a unicycle while juggling four hatchets. Yup, the good ole days, before Bell Labs Unix, thence BSD, formed the basis of the Apple Unix kernel.
This is why there are so many thoughtless comments here. Wizard69, how would you feel if I had written this (a variant of what you wrote):
”The problem is simple being straight can be a problem just like being a drunk can be a problem for a company. It comes down to how much your problem interfere with the companies mission. Firing somebody for being straight can be perfectly legitimate or a complete farce, it really depends upon context. It is no different than firing somebody that drinks too much and brings that problem to work.”
Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.
Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.
Odd.
Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way.
And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.
In this day and age who stays in the closet?
Errrnt. The person Tundra was replying to is clearly not compassionate, or he would understand that coming out is a big deal for the gay community after centuries and millennia of having to hide your normal state from others. Coming out just means feeling safe enough to be your normal self without hiding who your partner is -- as you just did by mentioning you have a wife, a heteronormative indicator. If you were gay and had to hide your normal self, you couldn't say "my husband". It's not flaunting your sexuality to say you have a wife, you take it for granted.
Also note that she came out in her 20s, which was decades ago.
It has not always been this way for gays, and in 17 states still isn't. In my state people were arrested for being gay as recently as 2014, and in 2014 our state house even voted to keep unconstitutional sodomy laws on the books. Gays were also banned from adopting until 2015. Yet still today, in Louisiana there is no law preventing private employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. Attempts were made in 2016 but the bill died. You can legally be fired for being gay. And also in 17 other states. In 2019. Shocking, huh?
Once had a “coming out“ of a male going female at work. This was accompanied by a book instructing us (me) how to think about it. The politically correct view is that this all is ok.
Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.
Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.
Odd.
Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way.
And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.
In this day and age who stays in the closet?
Errrnt. The person Tundra was replying to is clearly not compassionate, or he would understand that coming out is a big deal for the gay community after centuries and millennia of having to hide your normal state from others. Coming out just means feeling safe enough to be your normal self without hiding who your partner is -- as you just did by mentioning you have a wife, a heteronormative indicator. If you were gay and had to hide your normal self, you couldn't say "my husband". It's not flaunting your sexuality to say you have a wife, you take it for granted.
Also note that she came out in her 20s, which was decades ago.
It has not always been this way for gays, and in 17 states still isn't. In my state people were arrested for being gay as recently as 2014, and in 2014 our state house even voted to keep unconstitutional sodomy laws on the books. Gays were also banned from adopting until 2015. Yet still today, in Louisiana there is no law preventing private employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. Attempts were made in 2016 but the bill died. You can legally be fired for being gay. And also in 17 other states. In 2019. Shocking, huh?
Really? What companies are firing people for not being gay? I'm guessing your bias basis is because companies are firing people who sexually harass other employees, which typically tends to be men towards women.
Once had a “coming out“ of a male going female at work. This was accompanied by a book instructing us (me) how to think about it. The politically correct view is that this all is ok.
And you got fired for being a bigoted dick that no one wants to work with, but you decided it was because your heterosexual? Is that where you're going with this?
Once had a “coming out“ of a male going female at work. This was accompanied by a book instructing us (me) how to think about it. The politically correct view is that this all is ok.
Maybe you should finish the book if that’s all you got from it so far.
Comments
This thread is gonna get locked so fast. lol
People don't give a fu** about males. When lesbians start getting killed often then the white knights will interfere. Even I feel slight fear whenever I hug a gay male, luckily I fight back but I have to look around in public since it can cause problems.
The story that breaks my heart the most was the kid killed for asking another boy to be his Valentine.
I live in the states and saw this growing up. Luckily no one I know was killed but gay males were in the closet to avoid getting beat and humiliation and I'm not as old as you think either so this was pretty recent. Nothing has changed for males. Lesbians are glorified here for some strange reason to the point straight females will pretend to be bi for glorification and attention. I honestly don't give a sh** about your sexual orientation.
As for not true "in the States" refer to the articles above.
Oh, I see where you're going with this...
Care to back this up with ... anything? I mean, I recognize it as flat-out bigotry, but I'd love to see you try to rationalize equating homosexuality with substance abuse.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/murders-of-4-black-lesbians-highlight-increased-violence-against-lgbtq-communities_n_5a5778cbe4b0616638288454
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dad-killed-daughter-lesbian-lover-gay-mom-article-1.1722103
https://thegrio.com/2017/12/31/black-lesbian-couple-two-children-found-savagely-murdered-upstate-new-york/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Roxanne_Ellis_and_Michelle_Abdill
And yes, people do give a fuck about male deaths too. What is wrong with you?
I do think some of the gay agenda has gone way too far in my opinion.
That recent business of having trans men compete in women's sports?
That is pure garbage, anti-science, anti-biology, cheating and pure discrimination against females. Males and females are not the same, no matter what a few mentally ill people claim.
I think people’s opinions what they think about homosexuals should be private. I do not want to hear about it.
Anyway, normally I get the feeling you don’t really advance in apple for a senior position? At least among retail the two most recent ones have been from outside the company. Is this something new for apple? I mean a “ordinary” employee getting to be a boss, not a boss getting to be more boss.
Second, I don’t need to do any employment law research. I live here, the law is clear — you can be fired for being gay in Louisiana. If you don’t take my word for it, read the Fast Company article I linked. We don’t have laws to protect employees from sexual discrimination firings. That’s just fact. Prove me wrong.
That would be Elwyn Berlekamp of M.I.T. (prof at age 23), and chairman of three departments at UCB (math,
computer science, and electrical engineering), R.I.P. One of his fave things (besides juggling 5 golf balls off
the floor whilst chatting with his students) was to ride thru the halls of Berkeley's Evans (Cory?) Hall on a
unicycle while juggling four hatchets. Yup, the good ole days, before Bell Labs Unix, thence
BSD, formed the basis of the Apple Unix kernel.
”The problem is simple being straight can be a problem just like being a drunk can be a problem for a company. It comes down to how much your problem interfere with the companies mission. Firing somebody for being straight can be perfectly legitimate or a complete farce, it really depends upon context. It is no different than firing somebody that drinks too much and brings that problem to work.”
See the problem?
This was accompanied by a book instructing us (me) how to think about it.
The politically correct view is that this all is ok.