As I see it the only ones who will benefit are the middlemen and banks, not consumers. It’s all about the fees collected for each transaction. The potential exists for every German bank to establish its own wallet app and NFC payment system. If this happens Apple should at the very least receive compensation from each “competing” payment system for being the medium through which the NFC payment is accomplished, similar to the fee developers pay Apple for hosting their app.
Credit transfers in the EU are free of charge, so there are no fees to be collected.
The U.S. should pass laws requiring Mercedes, BMW etc to allow other manufacturers to open up their technology in German cars before a customer buys it.
Maybe Ford could run the car computer on every US based German car? Or allow consumers to choose a Chrysler steering wheel?
It would be astonishing if they let themselves be reined back by a German company. We want fair competition between car providers.
Germany and the EU are becoming worse for each passing day.
The worst are certain apologists that can be found on this forum, reassuring everybody “duh, its only an investigation, nothing to see here”.
Yeah right......
This is yet another step in a long line of abuses committed by EU member countries. The pattern is clear and there is more to come, and Apple should be prepared for further nonsense and garbage coming from EU countries.
Apple should disable Apple Pay in all undesirable and corrupt countries, instead of being forced to open up any of their tech for anybody. They can all go take a hike.
Germany and the EU are becoming worse for each passing day.
The worst are certain apologists that can be found on this forum, reassuring everybody “duh, its only an investigation, nothing to see here”.
Yeah right......
This is yet another step in a long line of abuses committed by EU member countries. The pattern is clear and there is more to come, and Apple should be prepared for further nonsense and garbage coming from EU countries.
Apple should disable Apple Pay in all undesirable and corrupt countries, instead of being forced to open up any of their tech for anybody. They can all go take a hike.
But then you have the U.S government trying to take down the world's biggest telecommunications infrastructure backbone provider and leader in 5G without producing a shred of viable evidence to support its actions/claims and also not limiting its action to its sovereign territory but threatening allies to toe the line - all that, while impeachment proceedings reveal some very dubious activities.
This proposed action by the German government is at least in the interests of consumers and competition, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
I'm totally on Apples side, but this isn't HORRIBLE. let's remember apple won't let anything insecure get implemented, if they do go down this path they'll do the same thing they do with camera and GPS, and have a popup asking the user if they want to grant access to so-and-so to access the NFC. I'll just say no to everyone else but apple pay 😂
A pedantic point, but the phrase "Access to the NFC chip" is dumb. Access to the NFC chip would mean being able to write anything you like via I2C, SPI or UART to the chip. The OS will not even tell you which NFC chip the phone has, there are quite a few, many customized in undocumented ways for the phone in question, so you would have no way to know how to even talk to it. Android and iOS both don’t give you that access, because that would be stupid and useless.
Android an iOS both provide an API to NFC functionality. Android’s API lets you do a bit more than iOS’s, like let the phone pretend to be a card, which you need for contactless payments.
Seems to me this is all about the tiny fee Apple collects when Apple Pay is used. Or that these other companies want some sort of access that allows them more transaction data than Apple Pay provides. In either case it has nothing to do with innovation or competition and it’s certainly not for the customers benefit.
This not right. Germany is silent about real problems like spyware and backdoors made by huawei on Vodafone modem and on smartphones. Who buy iPhone they love the Apple safe privacy system and iOS isn’t a freeware system that can run on different kind of brands. So Apple have the right to use their Os on their products without be open to other companies.
Germany and the EU are becoming worse for each passing day.
The worst are certain apologists that can be found on this forum, reassuring everybody “duh, its only an investigation, nothing to see here”.
Yeah right......
This is yet another step in a long line of abuses committed by EU member countries. The pattern is clear and there is more to come, and Apple should be prepared for further nonsense and garbage coming from EU countries.
Apple should disable Apple Pay in all undesirable and corrupt countries, instead of being forced to open up any of their tech for anybody. They can all go take a hike.
Too right.. if they give in the the Germans.. then every country will adopt similar laws. Just disable Apple Pay for Germany.. is not as if it will send Apple broke. Let the German citizens then turn on their legislators
Answer is simple.. stop selling iPhones to Germans.. then let their citizens turn on the government
Just disable Apple Pay in Germany. Its revenue would be minuscule.
The Australian Banks tried this on in Australia too, in fact argued for a united front from the banking sector. The legislators told the banks to take a hike, as there was nothing anticompetitive about it, and in fact what they wanted to do was anticompetitive.
This not right. Germany is silent about real problems like spyware and backdoors made by huawei on Vodafone modem and on smartphones. Who buy iPhone they love the Apple safe privacy system and iOS isn’t a freeware system that can run on different kind of brands. So Apple have the right to use their Os on their products without be open to other companies.
Still, I'm becoming increasingly frustrated by what I see as an egregious anti-American bias by various governments in the EU nowadays.
People who claim that Apple somehow has a "monopoly" are using specious logic. Apple competes with numerous other platforms, each of which contains an ecosystem combining hardware and software. Apple no more has a monopoly on its own software than Ford has a monopoly on the software running in its cars.
This is my logic exactly. And the thing that really makes me laugh is 99% of the media and other tech companies are always pointing out market share; Android is the leader they shout from the rooftops. So if this is the case why are they so concerned with Apple? Surely with all the other platforms being so dominant there is nothing to complain about?! Moreover Apple runs a proprietary platform on proprietary hardware. They have no obligation to enable other companies to profit from their hard earned success and customers. That’s like trying to force Nintendo to open up and allow Sega access, and nobody would expect that. People know that Apple users by and large spend the most and so they expect free access to us. Well I am quite content with apples’ platform as is, I appreciate the “walled garden” and I think anyone that doesn’t would move to another platform. So rather than using conniving methods and excuses to force them to open up proprietary tech - user choice, monopolies and the like, why don’t they be open and honest, because like I said, the people will vote with their wallets. And it’s certainly not “the people” that are making these complaints...... As for fair competition, these other companies are free to create their own platforms on their own time and at their own expense. The simple truth of it is they don’t have the competence to do so, but Apple is not obliged to give them a leg up. There’s nothing fair about profiting from another’s work!
This. It's like asking Nintendo to offer Sega games on their gaming store, or Steam to include games from GOD or whoever the other game store is, etc.
When I read the headline, I thought it was a stretch to require Apple share Apple Pay technology. However, reading the article, the law requires Apple allow access for third parties be able to access the NFC chip. That seems reasonable. Disclosure, I own Apple stock.
It may or may not be reasonable. But there should be no basis for a government entity to dictate how a private company determines what products and services it wants to deliver. As I've said before, if enough people feel restricted by the Apple Pay-only NFC dictate, then Apple will lose market share.
It's up to the consumer to decide if they appreciate Apple's approach of a semi-walled garden ecosystem or not. The LAST thing you want is regulatory fiddling at such a specific level with a private companies strategy. It's a not their business, and they face no incrimination or ramification if a company suffers from such meddling.
Even if they do open it up, no one is going to use the banks own wallet because it’s no going to be as seamless as it is now with Apple Pay, where you just hold your phone up to the NFC terminal, without even having to unlock your phone, and then authenticating with Touch ID or Face ID. You’ll have to unlock your phone and open the banks app. Might as well just use a QR code in your app at that point.
Why would you need to unlock and open up the bank's app? Isn't the point of the regulation to force Apple to provide the same access to third-party providers as it does to its own app?
No.
This is only about gaining access to the NFC chip for payment type transactions. A component used by Apple Pay to communicate with other NFC devices. 3rd party developers want access to those API's so they can directly perform their own NFC payment transactions.
CoreNFC has been available since iOS 11, but it's restricted to NFC tags, it cannot be used for payment-related transactions.
Oh no, triggered, outraged that other countries dare have laws which do not fully embrace Apple, because snowflake Apple although the richest company in the world might disappear if anyone ask anything of it, beleaguered days will soon be upon us again.
You do sound triggered. Perhaps you should stay away from articles about economic and political issues. The debate might be upsetting to you.
My take on the article was that Apple is concerned about how quickly this legislation was drafted and implemented and that it would take effect in just a few months. Is that the prudent way to make policy?
It was role playing, I guess I came off as one end of the spectrum AI reader.
Germany and the EU are becoming worse for each passing day.
The worst are certain apologists that can be found on this forum, reassuring everybody “duh, its only an investigation, nothing to see here”.
Yeah right......
This is yet another step in a long line of abuses committed by EU member countries. The pattern is clear and there is more to come, and Apple should be prepared for further nonsense and garbage coming from EU countries.
Apple should disable Apple Pay in all undesirable and corrupt countries, instead of being forced to open up any of their tech for anybody. They can all go take a hike.
But then you have the U.S government trying to take down the world's biggest telecommunications infrastructure backbone provider and leader in 5G without producing a shred of viable evidence to support its actions/claims and also not limiting its action to its sovereign territory but threatening allies to toe the line - all that, while impeachment proceedings reveal some very dubious activities.
This proposed action by the German government is at least in the interests of consumers and competition, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
And you speak of abuses.
The U.S., and any other government on Earth for that matter, does not need to provide public evidence that your so called "biggest telecommunications infrastructure backbone provider and leader in 5G" is a dominant player in the industry for specific reasons that they are a State Owned Enterprise, with that owner being the CCP.
National Security is all about risk management, and many nations consider that Huawei is state owned, state subsidized, and must answer directly to the CCP. The fact that you continue to support the Chinese Government while the Protests in Hong Kong are ongoing, is an indication that you do not in fact consider the risk to the entire World of the CCP and China's attempt to spread its brand of authoritarianism. I also consider it bad form that the EU does not fully support its own two major "telecommunications infrastructure backbone providers and collectively, leaders in 5G", Ericsson and Nokia.
Essentially, China is linking adoption of Huawei to trade, and I for one, am waiting for the U.S. to completely tire of the machinations of the CCP, with the ultimately result that the U.S. disengage from China.
The experiment of the West with liberalization China via trade with has been a dismal failure. Time to move on.
Comments
It would be astonishing if they let themselves be reined back by a German company. We want fair competition between car providers.
The worst are certain apologists that can be found on this forum, reassuring everybody “duh, its only an investigation, nothing to see here”.
Yeah right......
This is yet another step in a long line of abuses committed by EU member countries. The pattern is clear and there is more to come, and Apple should be prepared for further nonsense and garbage coming from EU countries.
Apple should disable Apple Pay in all undesirable and corrupt countries, instead of being forced to open up any of their tech for anybody. They can all go take a hike.
This proposed action by the German government is at least in the interests of consumers and competition, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
And you speak of abuses.
Android and iOS both don’t give you that access, because that would be stupid and useless.
Android an iOS both provide an API to NFC functionality. Android’s API lets you do a bit more than iOS’s, like let the phone pretend to be a card, which you need for contactless payments.
The Australian Banks tried this on in Australia too, in fact argued for a united front from the banking sector. The legislators told the banks to take a hike, as there was nothing anticompetitive about it, and in fact what they wanted to do was anticompetitive.
Besides, Apple is not and will never be in such business.
No.
This is only about gaining access to the NFC chip for payment type transactions. A component used by Apple Pay to communicate with other NFC devices. 3rd party developers want access to those API's so they can directly perform their own NFC payment transactions.
CoreNFC has been available since iOS 11, but it's restricted to NFC tags, it cannot be used for payment-related transactions.
National Security is all about risk management, and many nations consider that Huawei is state owned, state subsidized, and must answer directly to the CCP. The fact that you continue to support the Chinese Government while the Protests in Hong Kong are ongoing, is an indication that you do not in fact consider the risk to the entire World of the CCP and China's attempt to spread its brand of authoritarianism. I also consider it bad form that the EU does not fully support its own two major "telecommunications infrastructure backbone providers and collectively, leaders in 5G", Ericsson and Nokia.
Essentially, China is linking adoption of Huawei to trade, and I for one, am waiting for the U.S. to completely tire of the machinations of the CCP, with the ultimately result that the U.S. disengage from China.
The experiment of the West with liberalization China via trade with has been a dismal failure. Time to move on.