Compared: Apple's 16-inch MacBook Pro vs the 2019 15-inch MacBook Pro

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  • Reply 61 of 81
    The difference in price between the 2 i9 processor options for the 16" MBP aren't in line with the difference in performance, that's for sure: it costs $200 US (not sure how that breaks down elsewhere, but likely worse) for what lists as about 4% clock speed difference, but that is almost certainly not going to result in that great of actual CPU capacity in the real world on a good day due to memory contention between the 8 cores with their 2 threads each, as it'd require them all to run out of CPU cache to make that happen.  Not sure what the performance delta will be between the 2, but I'd be amazed if it was actually the difference %-wise between CPU clock speeds for CPU-intensive things. 

    That's why I ordered the 2.3 Ghz i9 version, and maxed out the GPU and RAM, 1 TB SSD (I'm only around 300 GB usage on my current MBP and iMac, over so many years: I don't do video editing).  I will be running multiple VMs and doing development stuff, but that really doesn't take up a huge amount of storage.

    Meanwhile, if you check out the Intel MSRP of the i9 CPUs for their respective speeds, they're inline for gross price of the CPU for the difference in clock speed: about 4%, at $27.  Apple certainly has a great markup for the difference in CPU speeds ;)
  • Reply 62 of 81
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,251member
    bb-15 said:
    danvm said:
    bb-15 said:
    danvm said:

    How does the GPU ray tracing compare to a NVIDIA Windows laptop for half the price?
    Who cares, you'd be stuck running a crappier OS.
    Based in the experience of my customer, Windows 10 have been excellent.  No issues at all running AutoCAD, Revit, BIM 360 and Adobe CC, among other specialized applications.  Plus I have the flexibility of choosing a list of hardware and options not available with macOS.  Maybe you prefer macOS over Windows.  But it doesn't means Windows is a "crappier OS".  
    Major OS comparisons are always going to be subjective. 
    For instance for me, the problems w/ some Windows 10 updates (some even leading to data loss) puts me off on upgrading/using that OS (which I easily could do on an iMac through Boot Camp).
    See Ars Technica for articles about the Windows 10 update problem. 

    ** You may argue that some Mac updates can also have problems but that is a different situation. 
    * In my experience w/ IS for many years, there is a lot more malware written for Windows compared w/ the Mac. 
    As a result a Windows user (which includes me for several years) should do OS updates as soon as they are available.
    By contrast a Mac user can wait to see how a Mac OS update performs since the Mac user is at less risk to getting malware.
    ** You may argue that in side by side contests a Mac computer is just as easily hacked as a Windows machine. But those hacking contests don’t replicate the risk in the real world.
    Because Windows is almost always the standard in big business, banking, government, there is an economic incentive to produce more malware for Windows.  

    *** Result; for some use cases Windows 10 can be considered a worse OS compared w/ Mac OS. I wouldn’t use the term crappier because that’s not my style but the meaning is the same. 
    And the answer remains, it depends on the user. 

    (PS. I can bring up other reasons why a person may choose to use the Mac/Apple products in general but I prefer to present one reason at a time.)
    I suppose the data loss issue you mentioned was for the Windows 10 October 2018 upgrade, where some users reported missing documents.  The thing is that macOS Catalina had issues with missing data, in this case emails lost,   

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/12/missing-message-issues-plague-mail-users-in-macos-catalina

    How is this better or worst than what happened with the Windows 10 upgrade and the missing files?  There are Ars articles, among many other articles about Windows 10 upgrade issues.  But I can find articles about issues with macOS and iOS updates.  The truth is that Windows and macOS and iOS have their list of recent problems. 

    Windows 10 have more malware, and as you explained, being the most popular desktop OS maybe one the reasons.  But, what would happen if macOS had the Windows 10 market share, and became the target of hackers and malware?  Would it make it a worst OS than Windows?  

    Both macOS and Windows 10 have their good and bad things.  I don't consider neither of them bad at all, or one better than the other, since both are very stable and secure.  Like I said before, which one is better is a matter of personal preference and the applications / tools the user needs to complete his/her workflow.  Someone may have their reasons to prefer macOS, but there are others that will give you their reasons to prefer Windows.  Again, personal preference.  Not necessarily that one is better or worse than the other.  
    You do not understanding what I wrote or your bias won’t allow you to understand. 
    - Again, the Mac user doesn’t have to upgrade immediately for the reasons I presented (less malware allows for waiting on updates). 
    - But the Windows user including with 10 needs to upgrade right away (a huge amount of malware). That partly is what makes using Windows such an unpleasant experience for some (including me).
    That is a point in favor of using a Mac for some users. 

    * Speculations about what if the Mac had the same market share is a straw man argument.
    Fact; Windows still has close to 90% desktop/laptop market share. Malware amounts stem from that. 

    * You recommended the Lenovo Thinkpad and yet in 2015; 
    • Lenovo was caught selling laptops pre-installed with Superfish malware that opened up doors for hackers.
    • In August, Lenovo again got caught installing unwanted and non-removable malware into part of the BIOS reserved for custom drivers.
    Then Lenovo embedding tracking software into its laptops and workstations from Lenovo ThinkPad, ThinkCentre, and ThinkStation series.

    * Of course I’m sure you will explain everything away and claim that using Windows 10 should never lead anyone to believe that the OS & its ecosystem is inferior compared w/ using a Mac. 
    English is not my main language, and sometimes I misunderstood things.  But I don't consider me as being biased, since I have devices from both MS and Apple, and my issues with both of them are minimal in my personal and work use.   
    - You said that with macOS don't have to upgrade immediately, but I don't think so.  Wouldn't you upgrade immediately after learning that macOS had a vulnerability that gave you access to the system as root with an empty password?  Or wouldn't you apply as quick as possible the update that fixed the missing email in Mac Mail?  At the same time, your are wrong that you need to upgrade immediately because of malware.  For example, the latest Windows 10 Enterprise edition LTSB is based in the version released late last year.  And there are no reports of this version being more vulnerable that recent updates.  

    - Yes, Windows 10 has a far larger market share resulting in more malware.  So I suppose your point is that popularity creates a security issue.  And I agree with it. My point is that if macOS was as popular as Windows, it would had the same issues and would be less secure than Windows, at least in your POV.  

    - Yes, I recommend Lenovo (and HP) business devices since the experience with my customers with them have been positive.  And yes, sadly they had their issues with the Superfish.  But this issue didn't affect Thinkpads, from what you can see in the press release. 

    https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-statement-on-superfish/

    I haven't read of Lenovo embedding tracking software in the business devices.  Would be nice to read about it.  Can you post a link?  At the same time, this issue was years ago and Lenovo made changes so this don't happen again.  This is very similar with Apple tracking customers by sending Siri voice recordings to external contractors without users knowledge.  And since Siri now is part of macOS, it may have compromised users privacy.  Sometimes companies make mistakes, but at least they quickly take measures to fix the problems so they don't happen again.  Nice, isn't?

    - Like I posted before, I think that both Windows and macOS are excellent environments, with both having good and bad things, including in their ecosystems.  Apple have an excellent consumer ecosystem, superior to Windows in many things, with the exception of gaming, where MS is ahead.  Another area where MS is far better is in the enterprise ecosystem, where Apple is not even close.  See my point?  Which OS /ecosystem is better depends in the customer, not that one is absolutely better than the other.  Don't you agree?
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 63 of 81
    Hi everyone, I have been on mid 2012 15" MacBook Pro. I was waiting for this but I really wanted to have ice lake processor in there as it will bring major changes from wifi to battery life etc. Is it likely that Apple will move to that if I wait in next update or it is not worth waiting? Thanks for any thoughts on this.
  • Reply 64 of 81
    omair said:
    Hi everyone, I have been on mid 2012 15" MacBook Pro. I was waiting for this but I really wanted to have ice lake processor in there as it will bring major changes from wifi to battery life etc. Is it likely that Apple will move to that if I wait in next update or it is not worth waiting? Thanks for any thoughts on this.
    Ice Lake will bring such a tiny improvement relative to all the other benefits this new Mac has over a 2012 model.  I mean, apart from the port selection (still bummed about that) it’ll be like night and day.

    If you can afford I say go for it.  There hasn’t been a better time in the past three years with the whole keyboard fiasco.
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 65 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    This really is a great year-over-year half semiannual-over-semiannual update for the MBP. Like many others I was expecting this to start at $2,999, and I didn't expect the storage capacity to double for that base price.
  • Reply 66 of 81
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,661member
    Soli said:
    laytech said:
    davgreg said:
    It surprises me that Apple has not included FaceID in the newer Mac laptops. It does not seem like it would be that difficult a thing to do.

    It looks like a nice laptop if the larger sized units are your thing. I recently bought a MacBook Air which is more to my needs.

    I do doubt the claimed battery life. I have never seen an Apple laptop live up to the claimed battery life and have owned a bunch over the years.
    Yes, I completely agree. Whilst Touch ID is great, the convenience of simply lifting up your screen to be automatically logged in would be a huge benefit. I'd like to see it automatically switch you to your screen if some else is logged in. An odd omission.
    Maybe that's what they're waiting for. Face ID on iDevices can currently only do a single face while Touch ID allowed for multiple fingers to be recorded. Perhaps there's a limitation with multiple faces and multiple accounts, as traditional OSes allow.
    They don't have to be mutually exclusive - they could easily leave the touch ID in place and have a FaceID camera. Also, I would venture that most MacBooks are single-user devices, or devices that have a primary user with some occasional secondary users. Having FaceID for one or two users while requiring a password for the rest would still satisfy a large majority of users and arguably not be any worse for those it didn't apply to.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 67 of 81
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 427member
    So here’s something interesting ....

    the 1TB 15’ - i9 - 32gb - Radeon Pro Vega 20 4GB

    is more expensive than the maxed (1TB) 16’ Radeon pro 5500M 8GB 64gb

    anyone know why that would be???

    I also purchased a 15’ last Saturday and was not expecting the 16’ to be so affordable ....


    Return it, take the extra savings, and enjoy the new keyboard and display.
    canukstorm
  • Reply 68 of 81
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 427member
    Will there be any noticeable performance difference between the 2.3GHz 8‑core Intel Core i9, Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz and the 2.4GHz 8‑core Intel Core i9, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz. I don't think it justifies the $200. In the past some of the processor upgrades were significant and unless I am missing something this one is minimal. I am not considering the base model with the 2.6GHz 6‑core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz. I do think there is big difference between it and the two other processors.
  • Reply 69 of 81
    Soli said:
    laytech said:
    davgreg said:
    It surprises me that Apple has not included FaceID in the newer Mac laptops. It does not seem like it would be that difficult a thing to do.

    It looks like a nice laptop if the larger sized units are your thing. I recently bought a MacBook Air which is more to my needs.

    I do doubt the claimed battery life. I have never seen an Apple laptop live up to the claimed battery life and have owned a bunch over the years.
    Yes, I completely agree. Whilst Touch ID is great, the convenience of simply lifting up your screen to be automatically logged in would be a huge benefit. I'd like to see it automatically switch you to your screen if some else is logged in. An odd omission.
    Maybe that's what they're waiting for. Face ID on iDevices can currently only do a single face while Touch ID allowed for multiple fingers to be recorded. Perhaps there's a limitation with multiple faces and multiple accounts, as traditional OSes allow.
    Actually, iOS has had the ability to add a 2nd face for Face ID since iOS 12. In Settings> Face ID & Passcode> Set Up an Alternate Appearance. 

    https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-an-alternate-face-id-appearance-in-ios-12/

    With that said, I’ve been using the new 12.9” iPad Pro since shortly after it’s introduction, and it replaced my 12” MacBook as my primary computing device. Having Face ID has been fantastic, and I’d have a hard time going back to a computer without it. Looks like I’ll keep holding off until Apple adds Face ID to the MacBook Pro line before I make the plunge. Though, in all fairness, unlocking my 12” MacBook with my Apple Watch was pretty good, but still not as good as Face ID. 
    Soli
  • Reply 70 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    Soli said:
    laytech said:
    davgreg said:
    It surprises me that Apple has not included FaceID in the newer Mac laptops. It does not seem like it would be that difficult a thing to do.

    It looks like a nice laptop if the larger sized units are your thing. I recently bought a MacBook Air which is more to my needs.

    I do doubt the claimed battery life. I have never seen an Apple laptop live up to the claimed battery life and have owned a bunch over the years.
    Yes, I completely agree. Whilst Touch ID is great, the convenience of simply lifting up your screen to be automatically logged in would be a huge benefit. I'd like to see it automatically switch you to your screen if some else is logged in. An odd omission.
    Maybe that's what they're waiting for. Face ID on iDevices can currently only do a single face while Touch ID allowed for multiple fingers to be recorded. Perhaps there's a limitation with multiple faces and multiple accounts, as traditional OSes allow.
    Actually, iOS has had the ability to add a 2nd face for Face ID since iOS 12. In Settings> Face ID & Passcode> Set Up an Alternate Appearance. 

    https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-an-alternate-face-id-appearance-in-ios-12/

    With that said, I’ve been using the new 12.9” iPad Pro since shortly after it’s introduction, and it replaced my 12” MacBook as my primary computing device. Having Face ID has been fantastic, and I’d have a hard time going back to a computer without it. Looks like I’ll keep holding off until Apple adds Face ID to the MacBook Pro line before I make the plunge. Though, in all fairness, unlocking my 12” MacBook with my Apple Watch was pretty good, but still not as good as Face ID. 
    I’m aware of that feature and I use it with my significant other on our respective iPhones, but I wonder if Apple’s wording of “Alternate Appearance” and their statements about family members that may look alike means that it significantly reduces the security of the device by a factor of more than two faces when using it with two distinct faces.

    Plus, it would have to tie into the OS more for switching users and possibly require Apple to offer a certain minimum even though most Macs only ever have a single user set up. None of this overly complex for Apple, but since Face ID isn’t yet an option there has to be a reason for it. Perhaps it all comes down to  the lid being too thin at the edge to house all the Face ID components.

    I used to use my Watch to unlock my Mac but my Watch PIN is significantly easier to figure out compared to my Mac or iPhone passcode so I stopped. I don’t even use the default 4-digit PIN, which means that it won’t auto-auuhenticate my Watch when we the correct digits are entered (you have to press OK). I wish they allowed it to lock a Mac when you walk away. That’s a security feature I’d find useful.
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 71 of 81
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,001member
    FWIW: the 16" MBP throttles the CPU just like the 15" models do, when randomly* accessing memory larger than the L3 cache. (The Mac mini does not throttle under such circumstances nor does the iMac Pro.)  Storage benchmarks typically assess both sequential and random access performance. There seems to be an opening here for CPU benchmark programs to do both, too.

    *Common CPU benchmarks access memory sequentially or in a streaming fashion.
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 72 of 81
    I am so glad Apple has finally replaced the atrocious butterfly keyboard. 

    Apple should never again introduce a keyboard with less than 1mm of travel. Hopefully, they have learned their lesson.  
    I’m really looking forward to buying a new MacBook as soon as they introduce the new keyboard across the rest of the range.
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 73 of 81
    Soli said:
    I wish they allowed it to lock a Mac when you walk away. That’s a security feature I’d find useful.
    It doesn't do that? Wow.... One would expect such a simple feature and technological simple implementation would work. I mean, the geofencing things on an iPhone Reminders not working is, well, somewhat understandable. But your example? Wow.


    Soli
  • Reply 74 of 81
    Soli said:
    Now compare it to a thin and light Windows gaming laptop with a RTX 2080 GPU. I double dog dare you!
    I'd love to. Can you find me a thin and light Windows gaming laptop with a RTX 2080 GPU with an 11 hour battery life using a 16" 226 PPI IPS display with 500 nits of brightness? Because those are specs that are important to me.
    Razer may be the closest PC option all things considered, offering the 2080 gpu for either 15.6" or 17.3" and up to 4K (touch) screens, user upgradable dual M2 drive and (up to 64GB) ram slots, TB3, etc. Past versions have had mixed reviews, and have tended to run hotter, louder and shorter especially at the high end. There are other configurations that may offer different specs for options 'important to me' more in line with 'powerful portable' vs 'portable desktop'...

    www.techradar.com/news/new-razer-blade-pro-gets-4k-at-120hz-but-dont-expect-to-game-at-that-level

    also perhaps of technical interest: www.bouncegeek.com/how-to-run-mac-on-windows/
    www.pcsteps.com/2157-mac-os-x-virtual-machine-vmware-player/
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 75 of 81
    k2kw said:
    Great product now that Apple is fixing the mistakes of Ive.   I think that this will be a big seller as pros upgrade from the Butterfly keyboard and the pre2016 models.  I think it is the best that Apple could do given what Intel is providing.   I’m looking forward to a future model with 10th gen 10nm chips and Lpddr.
    It's possible that Ive pushed for the Butterfly keyboard, but it's also possible that he didn't. Same goes for: soldered Flash, and soldered RAM. But if the past is a predictor of the future, he was the one who pushed for the "one-button" upgradeable PowerMac 8600. I was stunned when I first saw that machine. Having just helped someone upgrade a PC and deal with the rat's nest of wiring (and slicing myself in several places from the sharp sheet metal cases), to this one-button drop-open hinged case, where everything was right in front of you and easy to reach. From some quotes I've read elsewhere - Ive fough hard for that. 

    So before we heap all the blame on one person, consider this alternative scenario. Ive quits because he's had it with all the MBA maximimize shareholder value BS, which forces him to choose planned obsolescence, and then to lie about it - justify it as a technical decision required to make laptops thinner. 

    Now he sees the 16", and goes, [email protected](*#! it! If I only stayed 6 months longer! 
    Solimuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 76 of 81
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,625member
    I assume the memory is user-replaceable?
    You should do standup.   This is Apple.  The battery, memory and storage are NOT user replaceable.  

    They were in my late-2008 MBP and that was really terrific and consumer friendly.  They're not in my late-2016 MBP which has a battery that never gave many hours (I'd typically get four hours) and now needs to be replaced.  I stopped by an Apple store and they quoted $450 to replace it.    If that turns out to be the case, the Mac I have now will be my last one and I've used Apple computers since the late 1970's.   It's like having a car where only the dealer can change the tires or battery or fill the tank for the windshield wiper.   

    But I will give Apple a little credit:  for $110 more than I paid for this MBP with a 1TB SSD, you can now get it with a 2TB SSD, plus the other improvements.   When I bought my machine, 2TB was an extra $800 over 1TB, which was $400 over the stock 512GB configuration.  

  • Reply 77 of 81
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    hoodslide said:
    Where does it say it's a 16" laptop? Websites are comparing the previous 15" vs the new 16". But the previous model was 15.4' Is the new model 16.0"? Can anyone confirm, did Phil say this?
    Yes, 16.0 inches. https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ The old model was 15 inches in the same sense that a VIC-20 actually had a 22 character-wide display.
    You mean they were all 22 characters wide? And all this time I thought I had an upgraded model.
  • Reply 78 of 81
    This article seems very confused about if the processors were upgraded or not.  Possibly the result of multiple rounds of editing?

    I believe the short answer is that these are the EXACT same Intel 9th generation processors that were in the 15.4 MBP.

    Examples:
    "While this seems to be largely similar to the 15-inch, the processors in the 16-inch are 9th-generation versions, which generally offer better performance."
    "...with a run-through of CineBench on the 15-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro with identical Core i7-9750H processors..."
    "The refreshed specifications for the processor and memory, including higher capacity options for both memory and storage, are also likely to make the new model a draw for power users. "
    "...the 15-inch MacBook Pro brought with it Intel's Coffee Lake processors, with the model starting from a 2.6GHz 6-core Core i7 with a turbo boost of 4.5Ghz, while at the top end is the 2.4Ghz 8-core Core i9, which can be boosted to 5GHz. For the 16-inch version, models start with a 2.6 GHz 6-core Core i7, boostable to 4.5Ghz, with options for a 2.3Ghz 8-core Core i9 with a 4.8GHz Turbo Boost and a 2.4Ghz 8-core Core i9 boostable to 5Ghz."

    (in the last quote, the article lists out the processors options for old and new, as if the options are different...but fails to mention that the options it's listing are the _exact_ same)

    Overall, not a serious issue, but it makes me lose a bit of trust in the Appleinsider brand!
  • Reply 79 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    This article seems very confused about if the processors were upgraded or not.  Possibly the result of multiple rounds of editing?

    I believe the short answer is that these are the EXACT same Intel 9th generation processors that were in the 15.4 MBP.

    Examples:
    "While this seems to be largely similar to the 15-inch, the processors in the 16-inch are 9th-generation versions, which generally offer better performance."
    "...with a run-through of CineBench on the 15-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro with identical Core i7-9750H processors..."
    "The refreshed specifications for the processor and memory, including higher capacity options for both memory and storage, are also likely to make the new model a draw for power users. "
    "...the 15-inch MacBook Pro brought with it Intel's Coffee Lake processors, with the model starting from a 2.6GHz 6-core Core i7 with a turbo boost of 4.5Ghz, while at the top end is the 2.4Ghz 8-core Core i9, which can be boosted to 5GHz. For the 16-inch version, models start with a 2.6 GHz 6-core Core i7, boostable to 4.5Ghz, with options for a 2.3Ghz 8-core Core i9 with a 4.8GHz Turbo Boost and a 2.4Ghz 8-core Core i9 boostable to 5Ghz."

    (in the last quote, the article lists out the processors options for old and new, as if the options are different...but fails to mention that the options it's listing are the _exact_ same)

    Overall, not a serious issue, but it makes me lose a bit of trust in the Appleinsider brand!
    Being the exact same processor and having better performance are not mutually exclusive. The 15" and 16" from 2019 both offer an i7-9750H 6 CPU Cores (Coffee Lake-R) 2.6 GHz Core, but with thrilling due to thermal dissipation (which Apple says can sustain an additional 12 Watts over the model its replacing), plus the GPU, faster RAM, and potentially other factors, the performance also seems to be improved.
  • Reply 80 of 81
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,257member
    Where does it say it's a 16" laptop? Websites are comparing the previous 15" vs the new 16". But the previous model was 15.4' Is the new model 16.0"? Can anyone confirm, did Phil say this?

    I've heard rumors that Apple factory undervolted their 15-inch Pros, so the 8-core i9 runs cooler than 6-core counterparts.  Is this true?  Especially for the newer 16-inch.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-may-be-factory-undervolting-2019-MacBook-Pro-15-to-help-with-CPU-throttling.423784.0.html

    I think one way to check it out is to compare the wattage in the Power Gadget.  Generally speaking though, if something runs hotter, their power consumption is also higher.
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