Editorial: Pro Display XDR and Apple's Grand Stand

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 119
    PezaPeza Posts: 197member
    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    I agree, the first two thirds were a reasonable argument about Apple and the Pro market, but then it seemed to go completely off track talking about non Pro products in an attempt to justify the Pro market, which isn’t necessary. That last sentence just came across as a bit arrogant. It made the writer no better then those they are complaining about IMO.

    The stand is well engineered no question, but the reason it costs a grand is because that’s the price Apple can get away with, because that’s the price the market will pay. Companies like RED will be making a killing in the mark up of their stands for instance, probably all made in China.
    edited November 2019 crowleyphilboogie
  • Reply 82 of 119
    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    I actually thought it was the best line in the opinion by DED... the moment I read it, I liked it.  It’s simply brilliant. It rebutted anyone who (basically) called another (who bought or would buy the stand) an idiot. In that way, far from undermining, it absolutely supports the article.
    Apple went overboard with the engineering on this - certain buyers are going to love that, and appreciate it. Every time they use it they might continue to appreciate it - they might be glad that they could afford such a nice accessory. That’s fine. I wish I had the talent and money to appreciate it in that way too. And the entire rig, too.  But I don’t. So I won’t buy one. And I won’t presuppose why someone else might.
    Maybe DED’s last line is the nicest way to put it. I mean, Apple hasn’t said how much it cost for them to design, to buy the machines to machine, to produce, the scale of the lot, and all that.
    I could borrow a welder and put together a steel stand of some sort, drill some holes, run bolts through it, making sure the holes are big enough to guarantee a match to the adapter bolt pattern. Use big washers. Spray paint it, without grinding the rough edges. Black is nice. Flat black for sure because flat black won’t show tool marks as much. Maybe I do grind the edges after all. Touch it up. 
    Maybe the welder I borrow is a nice one, for all I know about welders (or monitor stands for that matter), or it could be crap, for the same reason. What would my result say to the world, as a testament to the welding machine? What if I actually used, irrefutably, the best welder in the world?
    Maybe I’m not a bad person. I just don’t know anything about welders and not much about anything else to do with producing super high end machines. That is actually a nice enough way to say it that I could actually say it about myself. DIY. Ad Hoc. MacGyver, for dummies . It’s not a bad thing to say.
    Even if I’m a blogger and I write that the welder is crap (even though, I’m spite of that, my stand turned out stellar) as if I do know all about welders. It still applies. You can’t actually be much nicer than that.
    fastasleeplkruppwatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 83 of 119
    ...I'm surprised the magnetic detach hasn't been touted more, and I too missed anything in the launch indicating a stand (even if basic) was included... Once I understood the nature of the innovative and likely highly engineered design especially as an upgrade, the pricing made much more sense.  Should we be concerned about what may seem a rather blocky form and what it may mean for future Apple industrial design, especially in comparison to the elegance of the tapered and curved iMac and Thunderbolt displays and stands ? I guess we will know soon enough, and hopefully be pleasantly surprised...

    Also it may be worth noting (according to everymac.com) the 30" Cinema Display initially listed over 15 years ago at $3,300 US in June 2004.  As I recall it dropped in price in time as well...
    edited November 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 84 of 119
    sacto joe said:
    dysamoria said:
    sacto joe said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    Oh, cry me a river. We paid the equivalent of a Mac Pro plus Pro Display plus $1 K stand in 1984 for the original Mac plus and dot matrix printer ($3K). Tiny screen and two programs, MacWrite and MacPaint. And we barely cleared the credit line our incomes were so low.

    Best Investment Ever.
    I’m pretty tired of this false comparison. Other people have already pointed out why this is flawed logic, yet it keeps persisting. There’s so much special pleading offered up for Apple’s bizarre marketing choice with THIS round of product branded “Mac Pro”.
    And yet - you don’t say how the logic is flawed....
    Actually, I think this is an area that dysamoria may (I don't know what "other people" they are referring to, so like you I don't know what they mean) have correct. I'm guilty of pointing out the same (that the original Macintosh I bought in December 1984 cost more in today's dollars than whatever pricing we are discussing -- I took out a loan to buy it, my first foray into the world of credit other than student loans), but I've never been fully comfortable doing so. That's because the market for technology has changed so dramatically since 1984.

    I think this would actually be an excellent avenue of inquiry and exposition for the vigilant Mr. Dilger. Why is it a fool's errand to compare the price of the 1984 Macintosh (especially the 512K, the iMac Pro of the time) to the 2017 iMac Pro, or the price of the 1987 Macintosh II to the 2019 Mac Pro? Because I kind of think it is, but I'm not sure I can articulate exactly why. Something about scale and commodification, and the fact my iPhone is exponentially more powerful. It would take research to think it through and take an authoritative stance. I'm not in a position to do that, but Dan is. I'd like to see it.
    I used that same machine and software to write my dissertation.  Kept a backup copy in the fridge in case of fire.  The good ole days.  Also went to my credit union to get the loan to pay for it.  My early research articles were written on it.  It’s funny and interesting to read the young debating a computer stand.  .....
    Pezawatto_cobra
  • Reply 85 of 119
    echosonic said:
    I work in showbiz. I have friends in camera departments, and while the reddit user he cherrypicked is spot on in his cost breakdowns, that market of buyer/user is SO niche and SO tiny that Apple would lose money catering any product to them. Pro Camera ops are not the people for whom the Mac Pro was designed. Its pretty clear it was designed for post/video guys, and while I don't begrudge them, I do think Apple is doing a serious disservice to the pro audio/graphics community, a MUCH larger community, by not offering some sort of model thats lean on the video-centric BS. Audio (and still graphics design, for that matter) don't need these ultra-expensive video cards that hold the Pro at 6k per unit minimum. At least having the option to dumb down the GPUs would be nice. They'd sure as hell sell more machines. I just bought a trashcan Mac Pro. 12-core, 64RAM and 1TB SSD. I paid 2k. I'd have happily dropped double that on a new Mac Pro if it had similar specs, and I care not what video card it has.
    The base $6k Mac Pro doesn’t have an ultra-expensive GPU, those configs will cost more. 

    That said, I have exactly zero tolerance for any pro who thinks a $6k base is too expensive. What do you want to pay, 3k like the current Mac Pro? Pros have better things to do than bitch about a $50/month (more like $35 after tax deduction) perceived overcharge. 

    If Apple priced the base at $2k some would still bitch. And for what? What pro on this earth can’t cover a $50/month increase in expenses?  That’s a fraction of a billable hour for these folks.  It’s ridiculous and those complaining certainly aren’t pros who use their Mac to generate revenue. It’s perfect for a one-person shop, as it can be bought at a modest config/price and upgraded as needed. 

    Even a hobbyist can afford the Mac Pro if they want to. People afford $700 truck payments if their hobby is showing off driving around in a nice truck. $100 a month for most any “hobby” is peanuts. 
    OkiRunfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 119
    It occurs to me that Dan did not address the question of a basic stand because it isn’t going to be included in the box, and little else is known about it. Looking at the Apple site, it is unequivocal that it won’t be in the box, and thus my insistence to the contrary above is just wrong. 

    If they do offer an alternative to the Pro stand, I’ll bet it will be the same price as the VESA adapter, $199, or slightly less. That locking magnetic connector won’t be free. I think the Basic stand will happen because they have not said otherwise and it appears it does actually exist. Plus, I don’t think Apple would have told AI at the event that they would exist if they will not. That just isn’t a mistake Apple would make at a major event like that.
    edited November 2019 OkiRunwatto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 119
    dysamoria said:
    anome said:
    I'll say it again.... I have been told by someone in the know (has had one for 6 months now) that the display comes with a stand included in the box. Just not the Pro stand.

    And holy cow! I bought a little quick-release setup for my Red camera for $1500... a 480GB SSD rehoused in a RED enclosure is still $1450... For professional work, this is not that expensive. Especially if you see that a color correct monitor has usually been at least 3 times the price of the Pro monitor and Pro stand!

    They will sell thousands of them if not tens of thousands. But not millions of them.
    Thanks for confirming that. I recall hearing something about it at the announcement, but no-one ever seems to mention that you don't actually need to buy the Pro stand, the display comes with a basic stand in the box. A lot of the complaints I have heard about the display are along the lines of "You pay US$5000 and you don't even get a stand." or "You need to spend US$1000 extra to use it."

    Even if it doesn't come with a basic, non adjustable stand, there will be other options, but as I understand it, and studiomusic has confirmed, your US$5000 monitor does come with a free stand.
    I’ve heard it too, but it’s basically at rumor level. This still has not been confirmed by Apple, has it?
    I think if you look at the original threads, you’ll find Mike or someone else from AI in attendance was able to confirm from Apple that it would come with a regular stand. No details about the stand, only the fact of its existence. 

    I think it’s likely Apple made no official pronouncement about it because the packaging and included stand was not yet finalized at the time and they wanted to keep their options open. And they wanted the focus to be on the high-end stand. 

    EDIT: To add that I think it was a mistake, and a very typical sort of Apple mistake — they tend to get caught up in showing off the luxury aspects of their products and lose sight of very basic questions that people need answered.
    It's easy to suggest answers and advice in retrospect, but there was no real way for Apple to anticipate that people would jump to various insane conclusions. The VP on stage merely put up a side with two prices on it. There's no way to forecast how dumb people will be. Now perhaps it could have assumed that people who weren't in the market for a $10k + workstation would start freaking out about accessory prices, but that's much easier to see in retrospect. 

    Even if Apple had noted other details, there would still be ignorant barking from bloggers just making up nonsense. Read some of the hot take links--one guy says "it has magnets in the connector. I don't feel comfortable with that." As if he's worried about his floppy disks and has never used an iPad keyboard or pencil.

    One can not make the world safe for stupid. I mean, look at America. The harder you try to make something idiotproof, the more idiots you get pushing the envelope of idiocy. 

    The only real solution is expecting a higher level of intelligence from bloggers and journalists criticizing whey they verge off into stupid. 
    fastasleepStrangeDaystenthousandthingswatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 88 of 119
    bigtds said:
    You can spin it any way you want, but $1000 monitor stand is still a joke.
    You can spin it any way you like, but Bigtds knowing the price of something but the value of nothing is still a joke. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrachabig
  • Reply 89 of 119

    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    Sorry, but it accurately describes the anti-Apple brigade who, by virtue of their endless articles and opinions and doomsaying crudely prove on an ongoing basis that they truly don't know anything. 

    Like Bidtds, they think that knowing the price of something is more important than knowing the value of something, but only an idiot thinks that a $50 supermarket Android has the same utility, build quality, feature set, speeds, memory, storage and more than an iPhone 11 or 11 Pro Max. Or an iPhone 7 or even a 6S you can buy for less than $200 which still runs iOS 13. 

    Be the man, woman or insert-your-gender here that knows that value is not ascribed by price alone. It's clear that by your statement, you didn't understand that last line, and Bidtds doesn't understand the stand either, or neither of you would be complaining about it.  
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 90 of 119

    John Ruskin once said that people who focus on price alone are the legitimate prey of marketplace value leaders.

    Apple's loudest critics know plenty ... including the price of everything.  But they know the value of almost nothing at all.
    Hi Jmoore, I hadn't read down to your comment yet when I made my last two above. You are absolutely correct!

    Price and value are two different things. Just like Android and iOS, or Windows and macOS. There are similarities, to be sure, but they're very, very different. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 91 of 119
    AB101 said:
    Has DED ever been critical of Apple on anything?
    Yes
    fastasleepStrangeDayswatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 92 of 119
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,819member
    AB101 said:
    Has DED ever been critical of Apple on anything?
    Yes
    If ever there was a time for linking to one of your own articles as evidence, I'd suggest that this was it.
    muthuk_vanalingammelgrossphilboogie
  • Reply 93 of 119
    Not sure I’ll ever change my opinion that $1000 for a hunk of aluminum is reasonable. It’s no worse, however, than a $55 piece of rubber that we buy from Apple to protect our phones that likely costs less than a buck to make. 
    Make one for me. I will buy it from you for 2 bucks. You will have more than 100% ROI. Sweet.
    OkiRunlkruppSoliwatto_cobrapscooter63chabig
  • Reply 94 of 119
    crowley said:
    AB101 said:
    Has DED ever been critical of Apple on anything?
    Yes
    If ever there was a time for linking to one of your own articles as evidence, I'd suggest that this was it.
    There’s probably a bit of chagrin on his part that one has to go back into the mists of time to November 25 (three days ago) to find a DED article that features an image of a MacBook Pro on fire and concludes with a section entitled “Apple Needs Criticism” ...

    https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/25/how-apple-survived-the-flawgic-filled-2010s-butterflies-and-all
    edited November 2019 StrangeDayswatto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 95 of 119
    Let me add that for me the Pro stand is a given — the ability to swing from horizontal to vertical quickly and easily is a big improvement for my purposes.

    I do find myself wondering if the display (and macOS) will have the ability to reorient the desktop and menus (and dock) automatically when you turn it, like on mobile devices. I assume this must be the case, and it’s not a deal-breaker for me, but I don’t recall anyone mentioning it. 
    edited November 2019 watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 96 of 119
    dysamoria said:
    dysamoria said:
    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    No, the iMac Pro does NOT work for me. It’s a stupidly compact machine AND an all-in-one. Why do we keep having to explain why this is entirely unacceptable for constant heavy and hot workloads??

    The Mac Pro is a tool. The ONLY way your Ferrari straw man makes ANY sense is if you see the Mac Pro as a luxury status object instead of a TOOL. At that point, there’s just so much wrongness in your worldview. 
    Let’s be real, you don’t have any “hot and heavy workloads” or you wouldn’t be using a ten year old iMac. Stop pretending you are somehow underserved by the other offerings available when you aren’t even using the lowest end Mac mini which would run circles around your current iMac. Not sure at this point if you’re trying to fool us or yourself into believing you actually need a TOOL like this.
    Besides the point of changing the goal posts and going for ad hominem, with your line of argumentation (attacking my credibility, rather than the merit of my statements)...

    Once again, someone claims to know me via selective data, just to make a credibility attack. If you’d been paying attention to all the things I’ve said here on this forum, repeatedly, FOR YEARS, you might know that the reason I use a 2011 iMac 12,2 is EXACTLY because I needed a relatively inexpensive stop gap to get me a larger screened Mac while I continued waiting for a Mac Pro with a retina screen. I would have bought the 2013 model if Apple had shipped it alongside an Apple retina display.

    [EDIT: I needed to spend as little of my computer money on the stopgap as possible, and I needed to clone my Snow Leopard machine at the time, so a newer used iMac was more expensive and the wrong choice for my work at the time. I’ve since converted all my old projects to Logic X, so I probably could have stopped using Snow Leopard earlier. The finite money resource was still an issue. End edit.]

    I stopped doing 3D design and gaming on my Macs after thermal fatigue killed one. I’ve been waiting literally over a decade for the right machine to come out (I despise PCs and Windows, so I’m not going to build another voodoo-tech PC).

    Admittedly I also hate the 3D design software market (pile of buggy and badly designed garbage, IMO), but it’s the dead Mac that REALLY put the fear of compact machines into me. I’ve used my remaining Macs for music and words, not CPU & GPU-driving workloads.

    It’s mostly been a game of struggling to save my pennies and waiting for the right machine. I averted purchase of the older Mac Pro due to timing. A new one was no doubt almost on the market... we thought, for three years. The 2013 model wasn’t right because of the reliance on questionable third-party non-retina-class displays (I’ve seen countless issues on photographer forums about how much of a PITA this has been). This never changed until now. Now it’s either a $5000 video production display or still those third-party displays. No middle ground.

    I have some money to spend, but not $13000 worth. I can only spend it one time. Possibly for a VERY VERY long time. It has to be a one-time purchase, not an every three years purchase. It has to last. So I’ve basically stopped doing much at all with my tools and hobbies.

    Sorry if being a poor hobbyist makes me some kind of inferior customer. There are a lot of us, though. Most of us probably just gave up and went back to PCs. I ... just... can’t. Won’t. Microsoft and PC hardware/software  voodoo pushed me away and Apple’s great OS sold me on their platform. 2007’s Apple. I could afford them until now. Today’s Apple seem to be a very different bunch of people.
    JFC, spare us. We all know you had one Mac die on you a decade ago due to "thermal issues". Big deal.

    The correct solution has been right in front of you. iMac Pro — it has the horsepower for what you claim to need it for and has your first party Retina display. When compared to PC towers, performance loss due to throttling is like 6% in a 10-core iMac Pro running C4D. To a hobbyist, that shouldn't be a problem. It doesn't matter though, because you'll find some other bullshit reason to not accept that solution. The fact that you're even complaining about the entire 3D software market when you don't even use it is ridiculous. I don't hear complaints from my friends and colleagues who actually work in the stuff full time. These are just a few examples of why people like myself question your credibility.

    Instead it looks like you're shopping for a horse-beating machine since you'd rather complain for forever instead of buying *anything* that would let you enjoy your hobby.
    I really struggle trying to understand the internal dialogue of these people, who’s only purpose is to complain about every possible solution to their supposed problem. If he’s using a 10 year old machine currently all of his problems are entirely in his head, even the 5K iMac (or new mini as you said) would solve his computing problems. 

    Apple doesn’t cater to DIY hobbyists, nor have they ever. Jobs hated slots:

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    ...these dudes need to find a solution that works for them (PCs) or admit they’ve just want to martyr themselves publicly. 
    lkruppwatto_cobrafastasleepOkiRunpscooter63
  • Reply 97 of 119
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    Production scale and price, that connection is disappearing rapidly.
    Why? Its because of a product Apple doesn't see as a consumer or even pro-sumer product.
    Another hint: this product is the most natural extension of a computer and in a way even the reason we have computers nowadays.

    Producing silicon or FPGA designs isn't as expensive these days. Teslas car chip is designed by very few designers in a very short time and it outperforms Apples Axx cores by a wide margin.
    Truth of the matter is that chip design software and physics simulation and calculation has matured a lot and could be used by someone without a lot of specialized knowledge, DCDP (Desktop Chip Design Publishing).
    ‘Printing’ (producing) chips isn’t very expensive either, you just fab that out at the feature size (print resolution) you want. 
  • Reply 98 of 119
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,525member
    dysamoria said:
    dysamoria said:
    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    No, the iMac Pro does NOT work for me. It’s a stupidly compact machine AND an all-in-one. Why do we keep having to explain why this is entirely unacceptable for constant heavy and hot workloads??

    The Mac Pro is a tool. The ONLY way your Ferrari straw man makes ANY sense is if you see the Mac Pro as a luxury status object instead of a TOOL. At that point, there’s just so much wrongness in your worldview. 
    Let’s be real, you don’t have any “hot and heavy workloads” or you wouldn’t be using a ten year old iMac. Stop pretending you are somehow underserved by the other offerings available when you aren’t even using the lowest end Mac mini which would run circles around your current iMac. Not sure at this point if you’re trying to fool us or yourself into believing you actually need a TOOL like this.
    Besides the point of changing the goal posts and going for ad hominem, with your line of argumentation (attacking my credibility, rather than the merit of my statements)...

    Once again, someone claims to know me via selective data, just to make a credibility attack. If you’d been paying attention to all the things I’ve said here on this forum, repeatedly, FOR YEARS, you might know that the reason I use a 2011 iMac 12,2 is EXACTLY because I needed a relatively inexpensive stop gap to get me a larger screened Mac while I continued waiting for a Mac Pro with a retina screen. I would have bought the 2013 model if Apple had shipped it alongside an Apple retina display.

    [EDIT: I needed to spend as little of my computer money on the stopgap as possible, and I needed to clone my Snow Leopard machine at the time, so a newer used iMac was more expensive and the wrong choice for my work at the time. I’ve since converted all my old projects to Logic X, so I probably could have stopped using Snow Leopard earlier. The finite money resource was still an issue. End edit.]

    I stopped doing 3D design and gaming on my Macs after thermal fatigue killed one. I’ve been waiting literally over a decade for the right machine to come out (I despise PCs and Windows, so I’m not going to build another voodoo-tech PC).

    Admittedly I also hate the 3D design software market (pile of buggy and badly designed garbage, IMO), but it’s the dead Mac that REALLY put the fear of compact machines into me. I’ve used my remaining Macs for music and words, not CPU & GPU-driving workloads.

    It’s mostly been a game of struggling to save my pennies and waiting for the right machine. I averted purchase of the older Mac Pro due to timing. A new one was no doubt almost on the market... we thought, for three years. The 2013 model wasn’t right because of the reliance on questionable third-party non-retina-class displays (I’ve seen countless issues on photographer forums about how much of a PITA this has been). This never changed until now. Now it’s either a $5000 video production display or still those third-party displays. No middle ground.

    I have some money to spend, but not $13000 worth. I can only spend it one time. Possibly for a VERY VERY long time. It has to be a one-time purchase, not an every three years purchase. It has to last. So I’ve basically stopped doing much at all with my tools and hobbies.

    Sorry if being a poor hobbyist makes me some kind of inferior customer. There are a lot of us, though. Most of us probably just gave up and went back to PCs. I ... just... can’t. Won’t. Microsoft and PC hardware/software  voodoo pushed me away and Apple’s great OS sold me on their platform. 2007’s Apple. I could afford them until now. Today’s Apple seem to be a very different bunch of people.
    JFC, spare us. We all know you had one Mac die on you a decade ago due to "thermal issues". Big deal.

    The correct solution has been right in front of you. iMac Pro — it has the horsepower for what you claim to need it for and has your first party Retina display. When compared to PC towers, performance loss due to throttling is like 6% in a 10-core iMac Pro running C4D. To a hobbyist, that shouldn't be a problem. It doesn't matter though, because you'll find some other bullshit reason to not accept that solution. The fact that you're even complaining about the entire 3D software market when you don't even use it is ridiculous. I don't hear complaints from my friends and colleagues who actually work in the stuff full time. These are just a few examples of why people like myself question your credibility.

    Instead it looks like you're shopping for a horse-beating machine since you'd rather complain for forever instead of buying *anything* that would let you enjoy your hobby.
    I really struggle trying to understand the internal dialogue of these people, who’s only purpose is to complain about every possible solution to their supposed problem. If he’s using a 10 year old machine currently all of his problems are entirely in his head, even the 5K iMac (or new mini as you said) would solve his computing problems. 

    Apple doesn’t cater to DIY hobbyists, nor have they ever. Jobs hated slots:

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    ...these dudes need to find a solution that works for them (PCs) or admit they’ve just want to martyr themselves publicly. 
    Or to put it another way, “Hell hath no fury like a faux nerd scorned.” 
    watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 99 of 119

    I really struggle trying to understand the internal dialogue of these people, who’s only purpose is to complain about every possible solution to their supposed problem. If he’s using a 10 year old machine currently all of his problems are entirely in his head, even the 5K iMac (or new mini as you said) would solve his computing problems. 

    Apple doesn’t cater to DIY hobbyists, nor have they ever. Jobs hated slots:

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    ...these dudes need to find a solution that works for them (PCs) or admit they’ve just want to martyr themselves publicly. 
    Or to put it another way, “Hell hath no fury like a faux nerd scorned.” 
    I noted the last line of the folklore link: "much to the eventual benefit of customers, who didn't have to buy a whole new Mac to expand their memory"
    Peza
  • Reply 100 of 119
    PezaPeza Posts: 197member

    I really struggle trying to understand the internal dialogue of these people, who’s only purpose is to complain about every possible solution to their supposed problem. If he’s using a 10 year old machine currently all of his problems are entirely in his head, even the 5K iMac (or new mini as you said) would solve his computing problems. 

    Apple doesn’t cater to DIY hobbyists, nor have they ever. Jobs hated slots:

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    ...these dudes need to find a solution that works for them (PCs) or admit they’ve just want to martyr themselves publicly. 
    Or to put it another way, “Hell hath no fury like a faux nerd scorned.” 
    I noted the last line of the folklore link: "much to the eventual benefit of customers, who didn't have to buy a whole new Mac to expand their memory"
    I think that’s a point many in here will miss, Apple themselves have created this culture whereby they see Apple as ridiculously overpriced, ignoring its other devices, it’s computer memory options are silly for instance, they don’t make a single laptop that has upgradable RAM so instead massively over charge for it, it has nothing to do with ‘Pro’ and everything to do with profiteering, but we are all used to it by now, hopefully with a now decent keyboard the 16” MacBook Pro can put them on top again in the laptop market.
    And when it comes to the iMac they make one model that’s RAM is easily upgradable. Personally I like the iMac Pro and think that’s your pro-sumer machine, it’s a good spec on the baseline model and makes a good second hand buy, I may get one someday.

    I believe that’s why you have people cry out at the price of their stand, however as I stated the price of the stand is set as it is because that’s what the market will happily pay for it, this thread has examples of that. So in regards to it’s price they are just following suite, no doubt it’s well engineered, it’s an Apple product so will be.

    I do find it funny with people complaining how the new Mac Pro is too expensive and too much for them so they complain endlessly..  that’s because they don’t for instance have Logic Pro with hundreds of tracks and layers and filters.. and make a living from music production. 
    The cost of the stand however can be soaked up easily the in the professional market if the new monitor matches up against the competition in the true professional space, because if it can then it’s a lot cheaper then the competition, it’s a shame no ones been pointing this out and instead focusing on the price of the stand, I mean if you can buy a 6 grand monitor able to match or exceed a 30 grand monitor, an extra grand for the stand is neither here nor there! It’s a bargain...
    edited November 2019 OkiRunboboliciousfastasleep
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