disclaimer: owner of 2017 MBP with that keyboard and have had zero problems with it.
Oh well, since we’re comparing data points, I’ve had one since Jan 2019 that’s been an unmitigated keyboard disaster. I am selling it off, and have ordered the new 16” with the scissor keyboard mechanism.
FWIW, my prediction is that this lawsuit could have legs.
This lawsuit is stupid now that Apple is moving away from the butterfly key switch.
Now if they want to fight Apple about the missing SD card slot and missing USB-A to eliminate a dongle, well, that's an altogether different matter!
There would be no reason for the lawsuit if Apple offered to replace every laptop that it has sold with the butterfly keyboard with an analogous laptop having the scissor keyboard. Without such offer, millions of people who bought laptops with the defective keyboard are affected. The offer that Apple made to replace one defective keyboard with another defective keyboard - the repair that takes days and doesn’t correct the defect - is insufficient to compensate the customers for the defective product that was sold to them.
Apple knew about the defect after they made the 2015 MacBook, yet they continued to make laptops with defective keyboards for 4 more years, completely eliminating the scissor-style keyboard from their entire lineup of laptops despite multiple reports of the malfunctioning keyboard in all lines of the Apple laptops made between 2015 and 2019. Only 4.5 years after the release of the first laptop with the butterfly-style keyboard did Apple release a 16” MacBook Pro with the scissor-style keyboard. Even then, Apple continued to make 13” MacBook Pros and 13” MacBook Airs with the defective butterfly-style keyboard.
Therefore, Apple continues to sell and manufacture laptops with the defective keyboard even after this class-action lawsuit was filed.
This will be very expensive for Apple to rectify, but the only remedy is the replacement of the defective keyboard with the scissor-style keyboard (if possible), or, otherwise, replacing the entire laptop with an analogous laptop that has a scissor-style keyboard. No other remedy is sufficient due to the nature of the problematic butterfly-style keyboard that often starts manifesting it’s defect after a certain period of time rather than immediately upon its first use.
I have a 2013 MBP keyboard and it's wonderful! The trackpad is just the right size too!
Yes, what’s up with the gigantic trackpads that’s Apple is now putting in their laptops. It’s ridiculous. The palms rest on the trackpad instead of on the aluminum top.
I looked at the 16” MacBook Pro at a store and left disgusted. I do not want it. It’s huge, heavy, and the trackpad is of the gargantuan size.
LOL. You must have only used Windows laptop with their terrible trackpads. I don't know how Apple managed it but the functionality of the current giant trackpad is basically magical. I can have one thumb or palm resting on the trackpad while I use other fingers to "mouse around" and the extraneous input is entirely ignored. I feel like Apple could make the entire area below the keys a trackpad and it would still work perfectly.
On the other hand the trackpad on my Dell laptop at work SUCKS (and it's protruding from the case because of a swelling battery but that's another [well know] issue). Watching people struggle to operate their Windows laptop without a mouse is painful.
I have a 2013 MBP keyboard and it's wonderful! The trackpad is just the right size too!
Yes, what’s up with the gigantic trackpads that’s Apple is now putting in their laptops. It’s ridiculous. The palms rest on the trackpad instead of on the aluminum top.
I looked at the 16” MacBook Pro at a store and left disgusted. I do not want it. It’s huge, heavy, and the trackpad is of the gargantuan size.
LOL. You must have only used Windows laptop with their terrible trackpads. I don't know how Apple managed it but the functionality of the current giant trackpad is basically magical. I can have one thumb or palm resting on the trackpad while I use other fingers to "mouse around" and the extraneous input is entirely ignored. I feel like Apple could make the entire area below the keys a trackpad and it would still work perfectly.
On the other hand the trackpad on my Dell laptop at work SUCKS (and it's protruding from the case because of a swelling battery but that's another [well know] issue). Watching people struggle to operate their Windows laptop without a mouse is painful.
I haven’t used a Windows laptop in 12 years; I’ve used Apple laptops exclusively. Have you seen the 16” MacBook Pro in person that you are so dismissive of my comment?
I find myself being less of an Apple fanboy every day because of the political climate. But!; It brings me joy to know that innovation outweighed profit, if only for a moment.
Maybe they were wrong this time but how many times have been right and went unnoticed ?
Apple, please keep guessing on what I will unknowingly love someday!
I AM concerned in this post Jobs/Ive era.
I'm not really sure what the rest of your post means, but I'm less concerned about the current than I am about post Cook . But by then I won't be much in need of Apple gear anymore, or at least it will be a much lower priority for me, & it'll still be a few years until post Cook products start coming out.
I hope Apple gets sued either to replace all Butterfly keyboards in the market or to guarantee the replacement of a faulty keyboard forever. A customer whose keyboard fails after 5 years shouldn't face any problems replacing it.
My 2016 MBP was replaced because of a faulty keyboard. Within 4 months I started having problems with the new keyboard. So while mine might have been replaced with a newer version it is no better than the last one. I really want to have it fixed again but I have been inconvenienced once I don't want to be again
The actual data says otherwise. The failure rate was within norms. As usual the internet amplifies the negative.
Sorry, I just don't believe it. As I've said before, either something is wrong with that thesis, or all the hosts and guests on all the tech podcasts I listen to have just gotten incredibly unlucky. What are the chances? (Like on Mac Power Users, they finally had a guest on a couple weeks ago who didn't have an issue... all the previous ones had.)
Have a 2016 MBPro. Never had a problem with keyboard previously and I take care of my laptops. Regularly dust aand vacuum it. Occasionally you get a sticky key that sometimes gets better with vacuuming or blowing it oout. However, keyboard is repeating on a's and some o's, which is extremely annoying. I'd take it in for a keyboard replacement, but think I will just hold out a little longer and trade in for a 16". This is the most trouble I've ever had with an Apple laptop. I like the keyboard, just not the lack of longevity, and the difficult replacement.
Why not do both? If you resell it to anyone besides Apple they are going to want a working keyboard. I say this as someone who just his 2016 serviced for the keyboard. Also I think it is a three year window so the 16 might be outside that window after the Christmas season of that is when you bought it.
Apple's voluntary repair program blunts most of the claim BUT these lawyers appear to be asking for a LOT more - like a recall and full refund. This isn't a defective Pinto that causes death or something so seems a bit much given Apple standing behind their product (and I've had issues with the butterfly keyboard unfortunately so am glad Apple made it easy to get a repair). I'm sure what the lawyers REALLY want is to be able to conduct discovery to see the extent of the issue knowing that Apple won't want to provide it. My personal opinion is that Apple has done the right thing and has done enough with its repair program to address the concern. Just greedy lawyers at this point...Apple gots the deep pockets.
The reality going forward is that Apple is replacing the keyboards with the exact same keyboard so the same issue will remain and there are no alternative means of addressing the bad design. You can't have the keyboard serviced. You can't install a third party keyboard that will compensate for the problem. You can't even service the keyboard without replacing half the computer. It's a bigger issue.
trumptman said: The reality going forward is that Apple is replacing the keyboards with the exact same keyboard so the same issue will remain and there are no alternative means of addressing the bad design. You can't have the keyboard serviced. You can't install a third party keyboard that will compensate for the problem. You can't even service the keyboard without replacing half the computer. It's a bigger issue.
Exactly. At *minimum* they should replace it for the life of the laptop. Most people will stop using them after 7-10 years, so eventually, they'd off the hook. 4 years isn't enough, because they have no way of getting rid of the fatally flawed design. Typically that kind of thing requires a recall, but if unfixable, should be a replacement.
I hope such a lawsuit gains traction so Apple learns a valuable lesson (which companies only seem to learn by financial impact). It would be great if they had to replace any of those laptops with a new model (such as the 16" MBP, assuming the rest of the lineup gets the good keyboard eventually).
Apple's voluntary repair program blunts most of the claim BUT these lawyers appear to be asking for a LOT more - like a recall and full refund. This isn't a defective Pinto that causes death or something so seems a bit much given Apple standing behind their product (and I've had issues with the butterfly keyboard unfortunately so am glad Apple made it easy to get a repair). I'm sure what the lawyers REALLY want is to be able to conduct discovery to see the extent of the issue knowing that Apple won't want to provide it. My personal opinion is that Apple has done the right thing and has done enough with its repair program to address the concern. Just greedy lawyers at this point...Apple gots the deep pockets.
The reality going forward is that Apple is replacing the keyboards with the exact same keyboard so the same issue will remain and there are no alternative means of addressing the bad design. You can't have the keyboard serviced. You can't install a third party keyboard that will compensate for the problem. You can't even service the keyboard without replacing half the computer. It's a bigger issue.
The butterfly keyboard is a POS. Been there, done that. Replace all butterfly machines with scissor switch machines. Magic keyboard my ass. Lovely how they treat a huge f up as “magic”.
Comments
A few thousand bucks is far from frivolous for a lot of people.
Now if they want to fight Apple about the missing SD card slot and missing USB-A to eliminate a dongle, well, that's an altogether different matter!
On the other hand the trackpad on my Dell laptop at work SUCKS (and it's protruding from the case because of a swelling battery but that's another [well know] issue). Watching people struggle to operate their Windows laptop without a mouse is painful.
A customer whose keyboard fails after 5 years shouldn't face any problems replacing it.
I hope such a lawsuit gains traction so Apple learns a valuable lesson (which companies only seem to learn by financial impact). It would be great if they had to replace any of those laptops with a new model (such as the 16" MBP, assuming the rest of the lineup gets the good keyboard eventually).