Internet Explorer 5 developer describes frustrations of working with Steve Jobs

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    2stepbay2stepbay Posts: 116member
    DuhSesame said:
    Yeah, if it's PITA under Jobs then it must means it's better to the user!

    But Tim?  Pfffff...
    Agreed. Tim Cook is truly clueless about the software side of things. It's not his strength, nor will ever be. With that said, software development at Apple has been shoddy for a long time. IOS 13 is the latest PITA to the users. If Tim would only exert some leadership and get someone to strengthen the software side, but as long as shareholders are happy that just ain't gonna happen.
  • Reply 22 of 35
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,152member
    2stepbay said:
    DuhSesame said:
    Yeah, if it's PITA under Jobs then it must means it's better to the user!

    But Tim?  Pfffff...
    Agreed. Tim Cook is truly clueless about the software side of things. It's not his strength, nor will ever be. With that said, software development at Apple has been shoddy for a long time. IOS 13 is the latest PITA to the users. If Tim would only exert some leadership and get someone to strengthen the software side, but as long as shareholders are happy that just ain't gonna happen.
    If only Tim hadn’t shafted that potential Jobs clone Forstall!
  • Reply 23 of 35
    For a while, Apple continued to contribute their changes back to the open-source KHTML project, but eventually that stopped because the two projects diverged too much. WebKit lives on as an open-source project heavily invested into by Apple. Chrome initially used it, but eventually forked their own "Blink" project.
    That's the Apple-friendly way of describing history.

    Apple actually weren't playing nice as far as releasing stuff, to the point where adherence to the license could be questioned; and then they went "here it is, as a huge tangled mess that you can sort out for yourselves". There just was no way for a FOSS project to do any form of reasonable reintegration of that.

    On a philosophical level I'm like 95% sure their intentions weren't quite as bad as M$ with their "expand and monopolise"-approach to the web; and it was absolutely 99+% less bad for the world in general.
  • Reply 24 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I really miss Jobs' presentation style and energy. 

    Me Too.
    But I think it is a mistake to believe that Jobs had a presentation style or technique or particular ability.
    Rather he had a deep, very deep, knowledge and pride in the product he was presenting and a passion about putting it out to the world.
    ...  Basically he was like a kid showing off his first new car.

    No professional, no technique and no style can replicate that knowledge, pride and passion.
    razorpitrandominternetpersoncornchip
  • Reply 25 of 35
    It very easy to accuse people, make statements about them etc., and usually those people will make counter-statements etc.
    However, when they are dead they can't defend their good name anymore.
    Therefore, statements made about dead people should always be taken with a very large quantity of salt.
    edited January 2020 pscooter63
  • Reply 26 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    eriamjh said:
    One thing is sure: Jobs was a dick. He wasn’t a “people person’’. Thanks, Steve. Always looking out for yourself and Apple.

    No, if Steve had been looking out for himself he would have been playing it safe instead of balls out, nothing but the best while being completely intolerant of mediocrity.

    People unable to think beyond themselves tend to believe self interest is what drives everybody.   While it drives many, seldom does it drive the great ones.  Just the mediocre ones who didn't last long under Steve.
    cornchip
  • Reply 27 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    eriamjh said:
    One thing is sure: Jobs was a dick. He wasn’t a “people person’’. Thanks, Steve. Always looking out for yourself and Apple.
    So you knew him well then? Yeah no. He certainly was looking out for Apple, that is sure. That it ruffled some feathers from people at Microsoft means nothing. As for being a people person in general, it depends who you ask. If you read Andy Hertzfeld’s book you’ll hear about his charisma and ability to win friends and influence people. But also his wrath. The two are not mutually exclusive. Being considered a dick is not rare; I’ve met countless dicks, but none of them made a dent in the universe by cresting the most successfully public company in history with an eye for excellent design. Shrug. 

    Yeh, it seems popular these days to portray Jobs as a Genius Dick.  But what gets ignored is the third aspect of his having a large number of loyal friends, associates, peers and subordinates -- people who knew him well and loved and respected him.    Those who want to portray him as the genius dick cannot reconcile those things, so they simply ignore that facet of the man.

    Perhaps it's just a sign of the times that we want everything boiled down into simplistic, black and white terms without any grey or contradictions.
    cornchip
  • Reply 28 of 35
    A few interesting insights: Microsoft hires someone fresh out of school to manage Mac version of the project. Steve Jobs always had the big picture in mind and knew exactly what features were important and which might undermine the strategic importance of iTunes.
    randominternetpersonGeorgeBMaccornchip
  • Reply 29 of 35
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Let me get this straight, we have 21/22 yr programmer who was upset Apple/Steve did not like his and the team he was on ideas about what a web browser should look  and operate like. All his rant tells us, Steve/Apple was right what they did, iTunes was in the works and Steve was trying to fend off all the music pirating that was going on and his long term strategy was to use iTunes and the iTunes store to make that happen. Then he had the audacity to tell some 21 yr to remove his music feature from a web browser. I think we all would agree being 20 yrs later Steve has the right strategy and these IE5 guys were heading in the wrong direction.

    I am sorry this guys feelings were hurt so bad he is still unable to resolve his issues 20 year later and realize Steve was focus on the larger picture verse a feature these guys thought was neat to have in a web browser. The other thing this guy does not realize, his project was not a secret to Apple, they were doing under the direction of Apple. He forgot his boss, Bill Gates struck a deal with Apple and MS was ensuring the success of that deal. 

    The other thing, this guy sound like someone who attempted to get a job at Apple, his friends were at Apple and he was on the outside looking in, Then to have Steve tell them what they were doing missed the bigger picture, which was too much for him to handle.

    I think we will all agree there are lots of stories like this. It does not surprise me one bit Apple/Steve made people and their ideas look like they had no idea what they were doing. There are lots of good and great ideas, many of which have not seen the light of day for lots of reasons. Most times it has nothing to do with the individual and more to do with does it fit into the overall strategy. The problem is people get attached to the idea and if you do not like the idea they think it is a direct attack on the them.
    randominternetpersonGG1GeorgeBMacpscooter63cornchipbaconstang
  • Reply 30 of 35
    tobiantobian Posts: 148member
    I can remember running it on 603e, under Mac OS 8.6. IE 5 was great, was faster and looked better than NN. I liked that semi-transparent globe animation.
    taugust04_ai
  • Reply 31 of 35
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    I feel this developper's pain, but ultimately get rid of IE5 was the good thing to do....
  • Reply 32 of 35
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    2) I don't recall Chrome ever being derived from Safari. They certainly used the WebKit engine in Safari to create their own browser, which they eventually forked.
    Apple originally forked the KHTML project into what became the Webkit open source project, then Google forked Webkit for Chrome.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 33 of 35
    My MSIE 5 story:

    Back in 2001 I moved from SLC to Portland, OR. I moved without a job lined up, but it was still dot-com-boom and with four years experience under my belt, thought I would be a shoe-in at any graphic design firm.

    This did not go well. I shopped around my resume — with a prominent link to my online portfolio — to every design firm in the city. Did not get a single call-back. My savings and my mood dwindled. Then 9/11 happened, the world went crazy, and I sank into a six-month long depressive funk.

    Eventually got a job working on front end for a shipping company, and noticed that they had some Macs for testing ("we don't bother, nobody uses Macs"), and I decided to load up my portfolio site for fun. 

    Crash-ola. Not just the browser — the OS, everything. Every single time. 

    Turned out that there was a CSS bug in MSIE 5 that could trigger an OS crash. For months, I was handing out a URL to design firms (still majority Mac) that would not just crash their browser, but take out all their unsaved work with it. 

    As soon as I had $400 to spare I bought a 400mhz Indigo iMac, which (once upgraded to OS X) I found to be more enjoyable to use than my DIY 1.2ghz speed demon PC, and that’s how I came to be yammering on an Apple fan site twenty years later…
    edited January 2020 cornchipdewmesphericbala1234svanstromGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 34 of 35
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,945member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    My MSIE 5 story:

    Back in 2001 I moved from SLC to Portland, OR. I moved without a job lined up, but it was still dot-com-boom and with four years experience under my belt, thought I would be a shoe-in at any graphic design firm.

    This did not go well. I shopped around my resume — with a prominent link to my online portfolio — to every design firm in the city. Did not get a single call-back. My savings and my mood dwindled. Then 9/11 happened, the world went crazy, and I sank into a six-month long depressive funk.

    Eventually got a job working on front end for a shipping company, and noticed that they had some Macs for testing ("we don't bother, nobody uses Macs"), and I decided to load up my portfolio site for fun. 

    Crash-ola. Not just the browser — the OS, everything. Every single time. 

    Turned out that there was a CSS bug in MSIE 5 that could trigger an OS crash. For months, I was handing out a URL to design firms (still majority Mac) that would not just crash their browser, but take out all their unsaved work with it. 

    As soon as I had $400 to spare I bought a 400mhz Indigo iMac, which (once upgraded to OS X) I found to be more enjoyable to use than my DIY 1.2ghz speed demon PC, and that’s how I came to be yammering on an Apple fan site twenty years later…
    OMG! bet that was a real facepalm moment! guess everything worked out in the end. 
  • Reply 35 of 35
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,243member
    BennyNo said:
    What?! Who cares about this devs/students opinion?!
    His opinion is inconsequential to me, but I always appreciate stories about older Mac products, especially having used said products. I still fire up my old G4 Once in awhile just to remember what classic MacOS looked like. 
Sign In or Register to comment.