Cook urges for global corporate tax reform during Irish trip

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,712member
    How about this for corporate tax reform: Corporate taxes are eliminated. Owners of companies lose their deductions and have to pay tax. too many businesses pay hardly any anyway through manipulation.

    Corporations are not citizens.  Overnight it would reduce that pernicious relationship between corporate heavies and Big Government Used to benefit one business over others. It would put a bunch of corporate lawyers and accountants whose raison d’être is tax law, out of work. And it would be extremely stimulating for the economies that made this move first.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 22 of 33
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,228member

    auxio said:
    knowitall said:
    . . . and if tax is absolutely necessary (and proven to be so, because government is almost always corrupt in this sense) . . .

    . . . All because some asshole manager wants to increase shareholders value and increase ROI on a perfectly viable business like what happend to Tasking B.V. in the Netherlands . . .
    There is corruption in government and there is corruption in corporations.  If the tax dollars aren't going to a corrupt government, they're going to a corrupt corporation and it's shareholders.  Let's not be delusional and believe that one large organization is better than another.  At least when money goes to a government, it may actually get invested in something which benefits the overall economy (creation/maintenance of public infrastructure, education system, etc).  Rather than just being hoarded by private individuals who, might be altruistic and give some back, but there's nothing which mandates that they have to.
    You forgot the corrupt individual. The individual creates corrupt government. The individual creates corrupt corporations.

    There is no shortage of corrupt individuals. 
  • Reply 23 of 33
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 983member
    4 biggest problems with US taxation:

    1- Corporations pay taxes at lower rates than individuals.
    2- Income from investment is taxed at a lower rate than income from labor.
    3- What an American expatriate earns overseas is none of the IRS’s business. We are not tax serfs bound to the land.
    4- If you cannot vote, you should not have to pay taxes. “Taxation without representation is tyranny”.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 33
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,519member
    entropys said:
    How about this for corporate tax reform: Corporate taxes are eliminated. Owners of companies lose their deductions and have to pay tax. too many businesses pay hardly any anyway through manipulation.
    So what happens with profits which end up in a bank account associated with a corporation?  I have no doubt that individuals who own or manage that corporation and who are looking to avoid taxes would figure out a way to use that untaxed corporate money for their own benefit while avoiding taxation.  Not pay themselves a salary, but have the company buy things which benefit them (like corporate cars, properties, etc).
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 25 of 33
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,228member
    davgreg said:
    4 biggest problems with US taxation:

    1- Corporations pay taxes at lower rates than individuals.
    2- Income from investment is taxed at a lower rate than income from labor.
    3- What an American expatriate earns overseas is none of the IRS’s business. We are not tax serfs bound to the land.
    4- If you cannot vote, you should not have to pay taxes. “Taxation without representation is tyranny”.
    So a 16 year old pays no taxes on purchases (like a car)? A foreign worker (H1-B) pays no income tax, no sales tax, no property tax but can still send their children to public school?

    Labor REQUIRES investment for labor to work. I know this inconvenient. Oh well. 
  • Reply 26 of 33
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,291member
    Was Apple unfair? I don't think so. If everyone can play within the rule, it's fair and square. Was what Apple doing illegal? Obviously not, because they don't break any law. The problem is people who don't get any advantage (tax) from Apple feel Apple is unfair and illegal. Should Apple give that money (tax) to them just because they want it?
  • Reply 27 of 33
    steven n. said:
    spice-boy said:
    Few billionaires or corporations will suddenly cough up the billions they have been hoarding from governments and will insist the burden of maintaining society be left squarely on the working class. I applaud Tim's point of view but when the richest man in the world (Bezos) is allowed to exploit tax loopholes written by every Republican dominated government in the past 30 to effectively pay zero taxes, it will be a long journey to right this wrong. 
    The tax “loop-hole” (AKA:Laws) have been signed by both Republican and Democratic members of both the Legislature and Executive branch. But don’t let facts, truth and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which is the latest addition to this family of laws, was voted against by every single Democrat in both the House and Senate with one Republican Senator and a handful of Republicans in the House also voting no.

    But don’t let facts, truth, and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 33
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,228member
    steven n. said:
    spice-boy said:
    Few billionaires or corporations will suddenly cough up the billions they have been hoarding from governments and will insist the burden of maintaining society be left squarely on the working class. I applaud Tim's point of view but when the richest man in the world (Bezos) is allowed to exploit tax loopholes written by every Republican dominated government in the past 30 to effectively pay zero taxes, it will be a long journey to right this wrong. 
    The tax “loop-hole” (AKA:Laws) have been signed by both Republican and Democratic members of both the Legislature and Executive branch. But don’t let facts, truth and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which is the latest addition to this family of laws, was voted against by every single Democrat in both the House and Senate with one Republican Senator and a handful of Republicans in the House also voting no.

    But don’t let facts, truth, and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    That was the first and only tax regulation ever passed. OMG!!!!  I had no idea. 

    Again, turn off your ideological blinders and allow a part of your inner hatred die. 
  • Reply 29 of 33
    A lot of comments here are focusing on US tax law, which... I mean, fine, but US tax law isn't really the story, here.

    Tim might have been cynically lobbying for lower taxes with his comments (Correction: He definitely was), but there is a very good point being made as well. A big issue with international taxation is that each country has their own rules around when you start getting taxed: "Permanent Establishment" status, and so on. In many countries it's not obvious whether you even have PE status, or not - it can be a series of subjective or quasi-objective "we know it when we see it" type guidelines that spawn confusion, litigation, and (ideally, for the rent-seeking governments) tax penalties for not complying with non-obvious payment obligations. But let's say you have PE status (congratulations?), now what? Each country has their own sets of benefits and obligations: some are written more clearly than others (and heaven help you if you have to deal with a civil code country's tax regs). So what do you do when you're working internationally? You seek out the countries with the simplest (often, also, lowest) tax burdens. Nothing is simple, so if you see a dozen other MNCs doing the double Irish with a Dutch sandwich you say, "mmm, that looks pretty tasty to me, too." And then you just hope and pray you're not big enough, or flamboyant enough, to be an unlucky company who gets fined by the rent-seeking governments.

    That's how it really works and that's.... not great. I'll naively believe this is what Tim really was thinking about when he said this.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 33
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,177member
    steven n. said:
    steven n. said:
    spice-boy said:
    Few billionaires or corporations will suddenly cough up the billions they have been hoarding from governments and will insist the burden of maintaining society be left squarely on the working class. I applaud Tim's point of view but when the richest man in the world (Bezos) is allowed to exploit tax loopholes written by every Republican dominated government in the past 30 to effectively pay zero taxes, it will be a long journey to right this wrong. 
    The tax “loop-hole” (AKA:Laws) have been signed by both Republican and Democratic members of both the Legislature and Executive branch. But don’t let facts, truth and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which is the latest addition to this family of laws, was voted against by every single Democrat in both the House and Senate with one Republican Senator and a handful of Republicans in the House also voting no.

    But don’t let facts, truth, and reality get in the way of a good rant. 
    That was the first and only tax regulation ever passed. OMG!!!!  I had no idea. 

    Again, turn off your ideological blinders and allow a part of your inner hatred die. 
    Joke’s on you — I’m already dead inside. 
  • Reply 31 of 33
    ajmasajmas Posts: 589member
    I wonder to what extent simply making sales tax the point of taxation works? Of course then comes the question of whether it is the sales tax of the buyer or seller?
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 32 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,477member
    ajmas said:
    I wonder to what extent simply making sales tax the point of taxation works? Of course then comes the question of whether it is the sales tax of the buyer or seller?
    You mean VAT and sales tax. The only ones who would pay that are end consumers, right? Earn millions but don't spend it on consumer goods like toasters and bedsheets and food and vehicles and other of life's necessities and you're off the hook. Sounds like the perfect plan for the rich to get even richer.

    Ain't hoarding great? Yeah! GO HOARDING!
    edited January 2020 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 33 of 33
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    auxio said:
    knowitall said:
    . . . and if tax is absolutely necessary (and proven to be so, because government is almost always corrupt in this sense) . . .

    . . . All because some asshole manager wants to increase shareholders value and increase ROI on a perfectly viable business like what happend to Tasking B.V. in the Netherlands . . .
    There is corruption in government and there is corruption in corporations.  If the tax dollars aren't going to a corrupt government, they're going to a corrupt corporation and it's shareholders.  Let's not be delusional and believe that one large organization is better than another.  At least when money goes to a government, it may actually get invested in something which benefits the overall economy (creation/maintenance of public infrastructure, education system, etc).  Rather than just being hoarded by private individuals who, might be altruistic and give some back, but there's nothing which mandates that they have to.
    I agree, but never suggested anything of the sort. 
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