USB-C is hardly the answer. The company I work for uses brand “D” computers which have all switched over to a USB-C docking station. The connections are constantly breaking both on the dock side and the internal minuscule tab inside the port. Lightning as a port is far more robust. As for the cable fraying issue - in 10 years of using iPhones and iPads I have never had one fray. I know I’ve seen other people do it - just can’t figure out what they are doing to make that happen. But that technically wouldn’t be too difficult to make more sturdy for those trying to use their cables as lassoes.
You’re in the minority when it comes to fraying Lightning cables. I have 1-2 a year fray. Doesn’t matter if it’s Apple or a Third Party cable. The outer skin of the cable splits right where it meets the plastic nub before the Lightning connection. It happens in the exact same place every single time.
I do a lot of work in industrial automation and this buy a lot of cabling and can say with complete confidence that Apples cables are junk. A true ripoff from the fruit company. Quality does cost but I can’t imagine Apples cables cost more than a dollar to make in China. I have found better third party cables and even those are cheaper than Apples.
USB-C is hardly the answer. The company I work for uses brand “D” computers which have all switched over to a USB-C docking station. The connections are constantly breaking both on the dock side and the internal minuscule tab inside the port. Lightning as a port is far more robust. As for the cable fraying issue - in 10 years of using iPhones and iPads I have never had one fray. I know I’ve seen other people do it - just can’t figure out what they are doing to make that happen. But that technically wouldn’t be too difficult to make more sturdy for those trying to use their cables as lassoes.
Apples cables are expensive crap, I’ve gotten far more life out of third party cables.
And yet the only Apple cable I’ve had an issue with is a first gen magnetic connection on a first gen Intel MacBook Pro.
As respects 3rd party lighting cables, those I’ve had far worse problems with. They don’t fray out externally, but the internal wires don’t hold up and stop functioning. I have had far longer use out of Apple Lightning cables to the point that from a house of 4 people all having iPhones and iPads and regular upgrades to them, there are cables in virtually every room of the house with some being in the 5+ year range. Not one has been tossed out for not working or fraying out.
I see multiple responses here about Apple doing away completely with any charging port and depending purely on wireless charging. I see one issue with that. There are people who go on long road trips in their vehicles. Those people depend on their car's USB port to charge their devices.
It would be easier to carry a cable with them instead of carrying a charging mat, because not all vehicles have proper flat spaces to place these charging mats and the phones without slipping. Plus, how would the charging mat itself be charged or powered in the car?
All chargers have a USB fitting all of them, it’s the other end of the cable that’s different, got nothing to do with the chargers. The world doesn’t need one standard cable end!
The EU has zero jurisdiction over the USA, and I reject all of their ridiculous anti-innovation, anti-freedom, anti-consumer, anti-tech and anti-business proposals.
They can go stuff their miserable ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
The notion that a bunch of EU corrupt bureaucrats who know nothing about tech and have never created anything useful in their entire lives shall decide standard charger rules for everybody to follow is something that all American companies should flat out reject and simply tell them all to go and take a hike.
A company should be free to decide which tech and which standards to implement in their own products and Apple has been doing just fine for many, many decades without any EU bureaucrats deciding how Apple should make their products.
I trust Apple infinitely more than the EU. I don't have many good things to say about the EU.
I use USB, I use USB-C, I use Lightning, hell, I still use Firewire on a few older devices I have.
This dumb EU idea will definitely stifle innovation. If they want to live like cavemen, then go right ahead, but leave the US out of it, because we will not abide by their rules.
The EU can get lost.
Well the EU surely has legal authority on any product, or food that enters its territory. And that's exactly what it does with SPS measures for food and plants, and why it has authority on electric and electronic devices, cars etc, for security and conformity reasons. While one can always raise the issue of innovation, past experience shows that IT and mobile producers have always , whenever left to their own devices, will bundle chargers that are incompatible one with the other, just because they can overcharge whenever you need a new one. And hoping that, once you have ten accessories that only work with one specific device, it will be a sufficient barrier to avoid you switching to another competitor. Obliging to harmonise to a single charger levels the playing filed, and frees your bag from holding so many different pieces of electronics. One needs to be totally crazy to be against that. Which is why I completely understand that you are against...
The EU has zero jurisdiction over the USA, and I reject all of their ridiculous anti-innovation, anti-freedom, anti-consumer, anti-tech and anti-business proposals.
They can go stuff their miserable ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
The notion that a bunch of EU corrupt bureaucrats who know nothing about tech and have never created anything useful in their entire lives shall decide standard charger rules for everybody to follow is something that all American companies should flat out reject and simply tell them all to go and take a hike.
A company should be free to decide which tech and which standards to implement in their own products and Apple has been doing just fine for many, many decades without any EU bureaucrats deciding how Apple should make their products.
I trust Apple infinitely more than the EU. I don't have many good things to say about the EU.
I use USB, I use USB-C, I use Lightning, hell, I still use Firewire on a few older devices I have.
This dumb EU idea will definitely stifle innovation. If they want to live like cavemen, then go right ahead, but leave the US out of it, because we will not abide by their rules.
The EU can get lost.
The whole issue was caused by the industry, not the EU. The industry was using chargers as a lock-in on each company's chargers.
It was the EU which had a large hand in putting a stop to that but chose to allow the industry to regulate itself rather than legislating.
It was the EU which also brought us RoHS and WEEE, this time through legislation.
Both directives have had a worldwide impact but are only applicable within the EU. Of course other nations and companies have had to adapt to these rules if they want to do business in the EU and many choose to apply them to their non-EU business. That's good for everyone.
Amazon pages in the EU for example often carry WEEE info.
We'll see where this EU review ends but Apple shipping millions of 5W chargers in the box in 2020, really should look into how many of them actually get used.
The EU has zero jurisdiction over the USA, and I reject all of their ridiculous anti-innovation, anti-freedom, anti-consumer, anti-tech and anti-business proposals.
They can go stuff their miserable ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
The notion that a bunch of EU corrupt bureaucrats who know nothing about tech and have never created anything useful in their entire lives shall decide standard charger rules for everybody to follow is something that all American companies should flat out reject and simply tell them all to go and take a hike.
A company should be free to decide which tech and which standards to implement in their own products and Apple has been doing just fine for many, many decades without any EU bureaucrats deciding how Apple should make their products.
I trust Apple infinitely more than the EU. I don't have many good things to say about the EU.
I use USB, I use USB-C, I use Lightning, hell, I still use Firewire on a few older devices I have.
This dumb EU idea will definitely stifle innovation. If they want to live like cavemen, then go right ahead, but leave the US out of it, because we will not abide by their rules.
The EU can get lost.
The whole issue was caused by the industry, not the EU. The industry was using chargers as a lock-in on each company's chargers.
It was the EU which had a large hand in putting a stop to that but chose to allow the industry to regulate itself rather than legislating.
It was the EU which also brought us RoHS and WEEE, this time through legislation.
Both directives have had a worldwide impact but are only applicable within the EU. Of course other nations and companies have had to adapt to these rules if they want to do business in the EU and many choose to apply them to their non-EU business. That's good for everyone.
Amazon pages in the EU for example often carry WEEE info.
We'll see where this EU review ends but Apple shipping millions of 5W chargers in the box in 2020, really should look into how many of them actually get used.
This nonsense is so thick that I had to post it twice. It isn’t the EUs business to come up with phony reasons to impose regulations. This especially if the person coming up with the regulation is a complete idiot.
Regulations like ROHS have been a complete disaster and have done far more harm than good. The regulation on lead in electronics is beyond all rational coverage leading to the high failure rate electronics we have today. No rational person ears circuit boards for dinner.
This isn't correct. I was involved in the draft process of both directives (doing translation work) and they were truly hard hitting for a reason: the environmental and the effect of certain substances on people.
They were hard hitting to the point of literally telling industry that "no alternatives exist" would not be accepted as a reply.
In the end, exceptions were included (lead wasn't completely banned for example) but important changes came about for the benefit of us all.
RoHS2 came into force, adding new substances. RoHS3 came into force last year adding coverage. RoHS5 and RoHS6 are roadmapped.
Lead use has been heavily restricted. It's use was largely a result of cost. Having a lower melting point makes substitutes (silver and tin alloys) more costly in terms of energy than silver and tin.
Lead is nasty but flame retardants were far more nasty. There was little to no real control of the impact of those chemicals.
WEEE ensures that the cost of recycling and safe disposal are included in the price of the device so no individual has to pay to have something taken away for recycling or safe disposal.
We were at a tipping point and the EU said STOP. It will take a long, long time to correct the damage already done but it would have been irresponsible to not to do anything.
We also have a battery directive and the ELV directive in the automotive industry.
Personally I haven't seen anything regarding the reduced lifespan of products as a result.
There was the famous case that affected Fujitsu and some others which led people to suggest that an electronic Armageddon was on the cards but that turned out to be caused by a faulty batch of chemicals.
At home, I haven't seen a higher incidence of failure.
I don't buy Apple's argument. We need the universal charger. USB-C is the appropriate standard for data and up to 100W of power. A lot of cable waste has already been made for Apple devices when all mobile devices could benefit from just USB-C cable. Apple's Lightning cables are notorious for inferior quality and they quickly fray leading to unnecessary waste.
If users decide to switch, they still keep the same cable thus less waste.
Anything USB is fucking trash. There’s nothing more useless than those connectors. I’ve been using them since their first inception and only because there’s nothing else. They suck and wish they would go away.
While I am totally opposed to this idea, your comment is a little troubling given that Apple has moved its MacBook Pros these “fucking trash” connectors only.
It’s a sensible decision. But it’s not what we need.
Ok, so what happens when USB-D is released? Do we throw away all our USB-C cords and buy USB-D -- because somebody said we had to?
legislating technology is dangerous. Yes, sometimes it is good -- such as having a common electric outlet throughout the U.S. But, when it is extended to evolving, developing technology it becomes a slippery slope.
WHOA! "...stuff their miserable ideas where the sun doesn't shine" - look here buster, I respect freedom of speech just as much as the next American but that slaty language has no place here. If I were your mother I'd stick a bar of soap in your mouth - this filth flarn flarn filth is unacceptable
I'm not sure if your post is attempting to be ironic or not, but if you are serious, then actually, you don't respect freedom of speech if you object to that extremely mild sentence and would wish to censor it.
I have to assume here that you're countering my sarcasm with your own so if you are I'll give you credit because you had me wondering...I don't think there's any reasonable human being that would look at "stick a bar of soap in your mouth" and "filth flarn flarn filth" in a comment and believe there is an ounce of seriousness.
Then stay in whatever country you live and don't move to any EU county
Was there anything in my post that gave you the impression that I would ever want to move to any EU country?
I'm not a good fit for the EU. I'm a person who is happy where they are and who is not a "refugee" with an image of an Al Qaeda flag as the background picture on their phone, so I'm not the right kind of candidate to be migrating into the EU.
Don't pigeonhole yourself so much. You're not a good fit or any society as a whole.
Seriously, did someone appoint you Society-Fit-Classifier of people?
Then stay in whatever country you live and don't move to any EU county
Was there anything in my post that gave you the impression that I would ever want to move to any EU country?
I'm not a good fit for the EU. I'm a person who is happy where they are and who is not a "refugee" with an image of an Al Qaeda flag as the background picture on their phone, so I'm not the right kind of candidate to be migrating into the EU.
Don't pigeonhole yourself so much. You're not a good fit or any society as a whole.
Seriously, did someone appoint you Society-Fit-Classifier of people?
The arrogance of your post is quite unbelievable.
Did you see the post I was replying to? That only a terrorist pretending to be a refugee would want to go to an EU country? My reply is on point, or are you not aware of his xenophobia?
Ya when I think innovation, I think Lightning port (sarcasm). It is slower and has far fewer features than USB C. It is proprietary requiring third party developers to pay Apple a fee for certification. Compare lightning to the wireless charging which follows a standard and allows products from many companies to be charged. Pull the other leg, Apple. It has jingle-bells on it.
Ya when I think innovation, I think Lightning port (sarcasm). It is slower and has far fewer features than USB C. It is proprietary requiring third party developers to pay Apple a fee for certification. Compare lightning to the wireless charging which follows a standard and allows products from many companies to be charged. Pull the other leg, Apple. It has jingle-bells on it.
Is it slower? Does the USB 3.x chip not allow for faster data speeds when used with a USB-C capable device and a USB-C-to-Lighting cable to that Phone?
If anything, Apple's constant shifting of power form factors creates more waste. 30-pin then Lightning then USB-C. How many exercise machines and clock radios out there have a 30-pin port? Removal of headphone jack? People throw these things away when they can no longer connect.
Additionally, on the laptop side of things they have "de-innovated" by moving away from MagSafe. While the shift from MagSafe1 to 2 also generated waste, the move from MagSafe 2 to USB-C is a giant step backwards. We've lost that innovative solution and are now being force-fed USB-C.
If anything, Apple's constant shifting of power form factors creates more waste. 30-pin then Lightning then USB-C. How many exercise machines and clock radios out there have a 30-pin port? Removal of headphone jack? People throw these things away when they can no longer connect.
Additionally, on the laptop side of things they have "de-innovated" by moving away from MagSafe. While the shift from MagSafe1 to 2 also generated waste, the move from MagSafe 2 to USB-C is a giant step backwards. We've lost that innovative solution and are now being force-fed USB-C.
Constant shifting! The 30-pin iPod Dock Connector started in 2002 and they have never wired the cable to the PSU on iDevices.
The EU has zero jurisdiction over the USA, and I reject all of their ridiculous anti-innovation, anti-freedom, anti-consumer, anti-tech and anti-business proposals.
They can go stuff their miserable ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
The notion that a bunch of EU corrupt bureaucrats who know nothing about tech and have never created anything useful in their entire lives shall decide standard charger rules for everybody to follow is something that all American companies should flat out reject and simply tell them all to go and take a hike.
A company should be free to decide which tech and which standards to implement in their own products and Apple has been doing just fine for many, many decades without any EU bureaucrats deciding how Apple should make their products.
I trust Apple infinitely more than the EU. I don't have many good things to say about the EU.
I use USB, I use USB-C, I use Lightning, hell, I still use Firewire on a few older devices I have.
This dumb EU idea will definitely stifle innovation. If they want to live like cavemen, then go right ahead, but leave the US out of it, because we will not abide by their rules.
The EU can get lost.
You seem to be too angry at some people whose decisions won't affect you in any shape, way or form on your daily life... Make sure you don't get a heart attack while writing these type of comments.
I don't buy Apple's argument. We need the universal charger. USB-C is the appropriate standard for data and up to 100W of power. A lot of cable waste has already been made for Apple devices when all mobile devices could benefit from just USB-C cable. Apple's Lightning cables are notorious for inferior quality and they quickly fray leading to unnecessary waste.
If users decide to switch, they still keep the same cable thus less waste.
You do know that a phone does not need 100 Watt, if you make everything USB-C weather it is 10W or 100W device that means the 10W device has to be rated including the cable to it to 100W. So all the lower power devices will be burdened with extra costs to ensure you do not have safety issue.
I do agree on the Apple cable issue, however, the reason they fall apart is due to the fact that Apple make the cable very flexible and the material they cover cable in does not hold up well to oils from peoples skins. Cable that do hold up well are usually thicker or less flexible, It is trade you have to deal with. I have not see a material with is flexible and also resistant to oils from your skin. BYW the way to avoid this do not pull out the cable with the wired part but the connect shell, I had Apple cables for a long time by not using the cable itself to pull it out.
Anyway, I’m with the EU here. Apple’s excuses are typical laissez-faire corporatist BS memes. Stifle innovation, my ass. Lightning is a fine connector, IMO, but USB-C can replace it. For everything. Apple themselves are already in the process of doing this (hello loss of dedicated charging port on Macbooks), so why are they bitching about it being regulated into uniformity with universal power supplies?
Corporations want to have control over everything (regardless of how harmful it is in the long term to humanity and our environment)... and they nearly already do.
I bet you like Russian peanut butter & toilet paper too.
BTW this is more about consumer behavior than anything else and governments can not force everyone to conform so they go after companies.
Comments
As respects 3rd party lighting cables, those I’ve had far worse problems with. They don’t fray out externally, but the internal wires don’t hold up and stop functioning. I have had far longer use out of Apple Lightning cables to the point that from a house of 4 people all having iPhones and iPads and regular upgrades to them, there are cables in virtually every room of the house with some being in the 5+ year range. Not one has been tossed out for not working or fraying out.
They were hard hitting to the point of literally telling industry that "no alternatives exist" would not be accepted as a reply.
In the end, exceptions were included (lead wasn't completely banned for example) but important changes came about for the benefit of us all.
RoHS2 came into force, adding new substances. RoHS3 came into force last year adding coverage. RoHS5 and RoHS6 are roadmapped.
Lead use has been heavily restricted. It's use was largely a result of cost. Having a lower melting point makes substitutes (silver and tin alloys) more costly in terms of energy than silver and tin.
Lead is nasty but flame retardants were far more nasty. There was little to no real control of the impact of those chemicals.
WEEE ensures that the cost of recycling and safe disposal are included in the price of the device so no individual has to pay to have something taken away for recycling or safe disposal.
We were at a tipping point and the EU said STOP. It will take a long, long time to correct the damage already done but it would have been irresponsible to not to do anything.
We also have a battery directive and the ELV directive in the automotive industry.
Personally I haven't seen anything regarding the reduced lifespan of products as a result.
There was the famous case that affected Fujitsu and some others which led people to suggest that an electronic Armageddon was on the cards but that turned out to be caused by a faulty batch of chemicals.
At home, I haven't seen a higher incidence of failure.
https://www.copenhageneconomics.com/dyn/resources/Publication/publicationPDF/3/523/1579701038/united-in-diversity_copenhagen-economics.pdf
I stopped reading two pages in as I considered it already to be on thin ice and skirting specific issues.
The thought of reading 90 more pages of the same didn't make the effort worthwhile but if you have the will and the time, the link is there.
The arrogance of your post is quite unbelievable.
If anything, Apple's constant shifting of power form factors creates more waste. 30-pin then Lightning then USB-C. How many exercise machines and clock radios out there have a 30-pin port? Removal of headphone jack? People throw these things away when they can no longer connect.
Additionally, on the laptop side of things they have "de-innovated" by moving away from MagSafe. While the shift from MagSafe1 to 2 also generated waste, the move from MagSafe 2 to USB-C is a giant step backwards. We've lost that innovative solution and are now being force-fed USB-C.
I do agree on the Apple cable issue, however, the reason they fall apart is due to the fact that Apple make the cable very flexible and the material they cover cable in does not hold up well to oils from peoples skins. Cable that do hold up well are usually thicker or less flexible, It is trade you have to deal with. I have not see a material with is flexible and also resistant to oils from your skin. BYW the way to avoid this do not pull out the cable with the wired part but the connect shell, I had Apple cables for a long time by not using the cable itself to pull it out.
I bet you like Russian peanut butter & toilet paper too.
BTW this is more about consumer behavior than anything else and governments can not force everyone to conform so they go after companies.