EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, overwhelmingly vote to push for charging cable standard

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 118
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    daven said:
    Am I missing something here? All phones can charge via usb. The only difference between them is the cord from the usb charger to the device which gets replaced fairly often because of fraying. 
    my thoughts also.

    Apple’s chargers are usb, the charger is standard. What is the wailing about from all corners. nothing is going to change.

    There seems to be the usual misplaced wailing about what's really going on here. The word that everyone seems to be missing an that is pretty plain to see is charger.

    Let me try that in bold: charger.

    Okay, how about bold and caps: CHARGER.

    Not the PHONE, the CHARGER.


  • Reply 42 of 118
    I’m so happy the Brits said “enough of this [email protected] and left the EU. A bunch of idiots making decisions that entire countries and cultures need to adapt... sounds like a terrible idea. These fools have no idea what they’re even voting in.
    yep. They had at least some sense. The rest will get bent by USSR EU politicians who are divorced from reality and were never elected by those they bend over... 
    seanjelijahg
  • Reply 43 of 118
    ElCapitan said:
    If the EU can "help" Apple to become consistent in their plugging, it probably does not hurt anyone. 

    Europe has about 755 million people of which 465 million will be inside the EU zone after the UK leaves. EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    Other than other companies not coming up with a better standard, because it would take several years and a ton of pushing to get that included into a standard. So, instead, they will not bother and a consumer will get stuck with a yesteryear's solution that politicians voted for. It is the worst possible scenario.
    baconstang
  • Reply 44 of 118
    This legislation isn't even a solution to the problem it proposes to fix. I'm pretty happy with the way that the EU approaches some problems, but in this case it's a very clearly out of touch with technology - something that isn't unusual for legislators.

    On top of all of the previous arguments, we are now faced with questions about what is a mobile phone, should the cellular Apple Watch get a charging port now? What about new comptact designs that aren't released yet? Such as devices that would be too small for the port (e.g. Smart rings.)

    The slate-like design of the current era's smart phone is not the end point, its becoming increasingly clear that we're going to move into more advanced, more integrated designs now. This is what technology companies mean when they say such rules hinder innovation.

    https://xkcd.com/927/ 

    If they have the common sense to limit this to chargers, then that would be a win - but settling on which port to use on the charger is also rife with issues (albeit smaller ones) - that's why something like Qi is so useful, one wireless charger can actually address variations in the standard, and similar to Apple's efforts - a charger won't need to be included in the box.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 45 of 118
    seanjseanj Posts: 288member
    ElCapitan said:
    EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    WRONG. The U.K. is leaving today and won’t be accepting EU diktats anymore. It’s already been announced for example we won’t be adopting the EU’s ridiculous new copyright directive than will prevent a lot of YouTube, Facebook, Instagram postings.

    Not having any local mobile phone industry - we do the important stuff instead like ARM Holdings - is irrelevant. This is about consumers, and we will be able to buy things people in the EU aren’t, from Lightning port iPhones to powerful vacuum cleaners (yes the EU actually banned those!)

    Roll on Brexit!! :smiley: 
    edited January 2020 elijahgJWSC
  • Reply 46 of 118
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Just use whatever Apple designs at any given point in time as the current standard, then they will always get the best. ;)
  • Reply 47 of 118
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member

    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    Wow, interesting factoid.  Such a small percentage of the world population when you see it in black and white.
    apple ][JWSC
  • Reply 48 of 118
    hriw-annon@xs4all.nl[email protected] Posts: 61unconfirmed, member
    daven said:
    Am I missing something here? All phones can charge via usb. The only difference between them is the cord from the usb charger to the device which gets replaced fairly often because of fraying. 
    my thoughts also.

    Apple’s chargers are usb, the charger is standard. What is the wailing about from all corners. nothing is going to change.
    Me also. 

    What this is about is finally adopting the “Radio Equipment Directive” from 2014. This thing mentions chargers but no connectors or plugs. 
    Apple’s chargers for “radio equipment” have always used the stupidest boring standard USB  type A, and recently USB-C. The cables are consumables and mandating one type for all will do next to nothing to combat e-waste. 
    shamino
  • Reply 49 of 118
    hriw-annon@xs4all.nl[email protected] Posts: 61unconfirmed, member
    MacPro said:

    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    Wow, interesting factoid.  Such a small percentage of the world population when you see it in black and white.
    I know, right? US is only 4.25%
    edited January 2020 muthuk_vanalingambaconstang
  • Reply 50 of 118
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    The EU should probably require all other electronic devices - from electric razors, battery chargers, etc... to all require USBc instead of proprietary ac-adapters before getting on Apple's case.

    Last time I checked... the EU decided micro USB was the best, which was actually the worst, most flimsy connection every.  I'm curious to see how Apple will respond to this.

    I think the Lightning connector is superior for a mobile device than even USBc.  Lightning is durable, very solid, and not prone to being damaged, whereas USBc - and the female port - is a bit more delicate.  

    That being said, I think Lightning came out when it did because USBc was not developed yet and Apple needed a replacement for their legacy 30-pin plug.  A part of me would like everything to be standardized to USBc as it would make my cable-management that much easier.  Just about everything else I use has been migrated to USBc now.
    It is clear you haven't read any of the documentation. The proposal doesn't target solely Apple or mobile phones. It targets a lot of device types. In reality, it is doing what you say it should do.

    Micro USB - at the time - was a valid alternative and has largely been a success story when looking at the problems back then. It was the industry that settled on that following some nudging by the EU to avoid each manufacturer from from trying to lock customers in to their own hard wired connectors.
    Can you point me to the documentation? I've been hunting but can't see anything about other devices. If I look at the e-waste that my family has produced in the last couple of years, very little of it is because someone has switched from lighting to USB-C
  • Reply 51 of 118
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    MacPro said:

    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    Wow, interesting factoid.  Such a small percentage of the world population when you see it in black and white.
    I know, right? US is only 4.25%
    OMG!  Really?

    I came across another one (no ethnic or religious connotation inferred or implied, just interesting).  What is the Jewish population of the USA (I asked friends so anecdotal the average guess I got was 15-20%), it's around 2% according the census in Wikipedia.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 52 of 118
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,160member
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    The EU should probably require all other electronic devices - from electric razors, battery chargers, etc... to all require USBc instead of proprietary ac-adapters before getting on Apple's case.

    Last time I checked... the EU decided micro USB was the best, which was actually the worst, most flimsy connection every.  I'm curious to see how Apple will respond to this.

    I think the Lightning connector is superior for a mobile device than even USBc.  Lightning is durable, very solid, and not prone to being damaged, whereas USBc - and the female port - is a bit more delicate.  

    That being said, I think Lightning came out when it did because USBc was not developed yet and Apple needed a replacement for their legacy 30-pin plug.  A part of me would like everything to be standardized to USBc as it would make my cable-management that much easier.  Just about everything else I use has been migrated to USBc now.
    It is clear you haven't read any of the documentation. The proposal doesn't target solely Apple or mobile phones. It targets a lot of device types. In reality, it is doing what you say it should do.

    Micro USB - at the time - was a valid alternative and has largely been a success story when looking at the problems back then. It was the industry that settled on that following some nudging by the EU to avoid each manufacturer from from trying to lock customers in to their own hard wired connectors.
    Can you point me to the documentation? I've been hunting but can't see anything about other devices. If I look at the e-waste that my family has produced in the last couple of years, very little of it is because someone has switched from lighting to USB-C
    The resolution that was voted on is linked in this AI article. It is this:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html

    I linked to another document in another thread last week that actually explained the technical observations and Apple's 92-page lobbying document against this proposal. I will try to find that thread. In the EU technical documentation, the words 'future proofing' were actually used. Now, that was a consultation document but it is evident that a lot of people writing in this thread simply haven't read anything on the subject before firing off.
    tenthousandthingsmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 53 of 118
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    The EU should probably require all other electronic devices - from electric razors, battery chargers, etc... to all require USBc instead of proprietary ac-adapters before getting on Apple's case.

    Last time I checked... the EU decided micro USB was the best, which was actually the worst, most flimsy connection every.  I'm curious to see how Apple will respond to this.

    I think the Lightning connector is superior for a mobile device than even USBc.  Lightning is durable, very solid, and not prone to being damaged, whereas USBc - and the female port - is a bit more delicate.  

    That being said, I think Lightning came out when it did because USBc was not developed yet and Apple needed a replacement for their legacy 30-pin plug.  A part of me would like everything to be standardized to USBc as it would make my cable-management that much easier.  Just about everything else I use has been migrated to USBc now.
    It is clear you haven't read any of the documentation. The proposal doesn't target solely Apple or mobile phones. It targets a lot of device types. In reality, it is doing what you say it should do.

    Micro USB - at the time - was a valid alternative and has largely been a success story when looking at the problems back then. It was the industry that settled on that following some nudging by the EU to avoid each manufacturer from from trying to lock customers in to their own hard wired connectors.
    Can you point me to the documentation? I've been hunting but can't see anything about other devices. If I look at the e-waste that my family has produced in the last couple of years, very little of it is because someone has switched from lighting to USB-C
    The resolution that was voted on is linked in this AI article. It is this:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html

    I linked to another document in another thread last week that actually explained the technical observations and Apple's 92-page lobbying document against this proposal. I will try to find that thread. In the EU technical documentation, the words 'future proofing' were actually used. Now, that was a consultation document but it is evident that a lot of people writing in this thread simply haven't read anything on the subject before firing off.
    Ha, thanks. I should have checked the links in the article rather than hunting myself :smile: 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 118
    seanj said:
    ElCapitan said:
    EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    WRONG. The U.K. is leaving today and won’t be accepting EU diktats anymore. It’s already been announced for example we won’t be adopting the EU’s ridiculous new copyright directive than will prevent a lot of YouTube, Facebook, Instagram postings.

    Not having any local mobile phone industry - we do the important stuff instead like ARM Holdings - is irrelevant. This is about consumers, and we will be able to buy things people in the EU aren’t, from Lightning port iPhones to powerful vacuum cleaners (yes the EU actually banned those!)

    Roll on Brexit!! :smiley: 
    Yeah, it must really suck (!) not to have the most powerful vacuum cleaners. Happy Hoovering!
    baconstang
  • Reply 55 of 118
    MacPro said:

    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    Wow, interesting factoid.  Such a small percentage of the world population when you see it in black and white.
    Small? WTF are you smoking?
  • Reply 56 of 118

    daven said:
    Am I missing something here? All phones can charge via usb. The only difference between them is the cord from the usb charger to the device which gets replaced fairly often because of fraying. 
    my thoughts also.

    Apple’s chargers are usb, the charger is standard. What is the wailing about from all corners. nothing is going to change.
    Me also. 

    What this is about is finally adopting the “Radio Equipment Directive” from 2014. This thing mentions chargers but no connectors or plugs. 
    Apple’s chargers for “radio equipment” have always used the stupidest boring standard USB  type A, and recently USB-C. The cables are consumables and mandating one type for all will do next to nothing to combat e-waste. 
    They are literally talking about the plugs on the phone and the cords' connectors that connect to them.
  • Reply 57 of 118
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,160member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    The EU should probably require all other electronic devices - from electric razors, battery chargers, etc... to all require USBc instead of proprietary ac-adapters before getting on Apple's case.

    Last time I checked... the EU decided micro USB was the best, which was actually the worst, most flimsy connection every.  I'm curious to see how Apple will respond to this.

    I think the Lightning connector is superior for a mobile device than even USBc.  Lightning is durable, very solid, and not prone to being damaged, whereas USBc - and the female port - is a bit more delicate.  

    That being said, I think Lightning came out when it did because USBc was not developed yet and Apple needed a replacement for their legacy 30-pin plug.  A part of me would like everything to be standardized to USBc as it would make my cable-management that much easier.  Just about everything else I use has been migrated to USBc now.
    It is clear you haven't read any of the documentation. The proposal doesn't target solely Apple or mobile phones. It targets a lot of device types. In reality, it is doing what you say it should do.

    Micro USB - at the time - was a valid alternative and has largely been a success story when looking at the problems back then. It was the industry that settled on that following some nudging by the EU to avoid each manufacturer from from trying to lock customers in to their own hard wired connectors.
    Can you point me to the documentation? I've been hunting but can't see anything about other devices. If I look at the e-waste that my family has produced in the last couple of years, very little of it is because someone has switched from lighting to USB-C
    The resolution that was voted on is linked in this AI article. It is this:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html

    I linked to another document in another thread last week that actually explained the technical observations and Apple's 92-page lobbying document against this proposal. I will try to find that thread. In the EU technical documentation, the words 'future proofing' were actually used. Now, that was a consultation document but it is evident that a lot of people writing in this thread simply haven't read anything on the subject before firing off.
    Ha, thanks. I should have checked the links in the article rather than hunting myself :smile: 
    This is the thread where I posted the other links:

    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/214372/apple-says-a-common-charger-would-handicap-innovation-inflate-waste/p1
  • Reply 58 of 118
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    ElCapitan said:
    seanj said:
    ElCapitan said:
    EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    WRONG. The U.K. is leaving today and won’t be accepting EU diktats anymore. It’s already been announced for example we won’t be adopting the EU’s ridiculous new copyright directive than will prevent a lot of YouTube, Facebook, Instagram postings.

    Not having any local mobile phone industry - we do the important stuff instead like ARM Holdings - is irrelevant. This is about consumers, and we will be able to buy things people in the EU aren’t, from Lightning port iPhones to powerful vacuum cleaners (yes the EU actually banned those!)

    Roll on Brexit!! :smiley: 
    Yeah, it must really suck (!) not to have the most powerful vacuum cleaners. Happy Hoovering!
    Talking of ARM Holdings, it's a shame Steve had to sell Apple's ARM holdings to help save Apple from the idiots that ran it in his absence.  
  • Reply 59 of 118
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,989member
    elijahg said:
    While the US style plugs may be "elegant", they're actually pretty crap - especially the two prong no earth ones. If you stand on the cable near the plug, the prongs can snap off and leave live prongs stuck out. The sockets quickly wear out so that wall warts won't stay in the socket, and just drop out on the floor.
    Have you experienced any of this firsthand?

    I've lived in the US my whole life, over half a century, and have never come across a single instance of those scenarios.  Even electrical devices and wall sockets made well before I was born... nothing like what you describe.  Ever.

    Prongs snapping off... you must be talking about some other country, because the US citizenry would not stand for that kind of shenanigans.

    That is odd because I grew up in the US, lived there until I was 49, and I can tell you that @elijahg is spot on. the sockets do wear out quickly and regularly. I've moved into houses and the first thing we had to do was replace the wall sockets. That was both in Minnesota and Oregon. It is very easy to get hot and neutral reversed, most things still work, but the frame can end up hot. As far as snapping off prongs, well there have been a couple of instances I've seen. The only remedy was to replace the socket. It's usually more a function of a really cheap cord though.
    elijahg
  • Reply 60 of 118
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Every legislated standard involves trade-offs between benefits and detriments.  That is why every legislated standard has to have clear and significant societal benefits.   This one does not and is therefor misguided.
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