Apple liable for millions in unpaid wages after court rules retail worker bag checks illeg...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 56
    ktappektappe Posts: 808member
    It won't just be Apple. Costco searches every employee, every day of the week.

    As long as they pay them for their time, fine.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 22 of 56
    ktappektappe Posts: 808member
    Security checks aren’t uncommon and I’ve never heard of anyone being compensated for waiting in a line to be checked. Don’t like it? Quit and get a job at the Post Office.

    Whether you've heard of it or not is irrelevant. It's also irrelevant whether the workers "like" it or not. What's relevant is whether it violates the law, and CA's highest court ruled *unanimously* that it does.

    designrlolliverwaverboymuthuk_vanalingammariowincohammeroftruthchemengin1urashiddysamoria
  • Reply 23 of 56
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,084member
    Apple's response will simply be to ban bags.  Even the article eludes to that.
    JFC_PA
  • Reply 24 of 56
    yuck9yuck9 Posts: 112member
    Looks like they should fire half the retail staff and put everyone on salary instead of hourly. Would make the security checks go faster and there would be no overtime pay.
    That would be better. Employee ah they took 3 hours of my life this week so I'll get them back.  Hey boss I'm sick I wont be into work today. 8 hours sick pay. With salary you get to do this types of things.  :)

  • Reply 25 of 56
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,729member
    Based on the article:  good call by the court. 
    muthuk_vanalingammariowinco
  • Reply 26 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Sounds right to me, worker time isn’t employer time. As we contractors say, “Fuck you pay me.” 
    Indeed. If they can’t leave until their bags are checked then they’re obviously still at work. 

    If you don’t pay them, then they should be compensated with time off. 


    revenantCarnagemariowincodysamoria
  • Reply 27 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    It won't just be Apple. Costco searches every employee, every day of the week.
    Mmm. A quick search shows this is a common practice. I didn’t know that. 

    But still, Apple regularly goes above and beyond when it comes to fair treatment of contract staff working through other companies (like Foxconn), so this doesn’t send a good message. 
    muthuk_vanalingammariowinco
  • Reply 28 of 56
    linkman said:
    To counter those that are saying that Apple should make most of the store employees salaried: in the US they are covered by federal labor and wage laws and because of the nature of the tasks the employees do most of them must be paid hourly. See https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
    Nonsense. All store employees could be fired and rehired under salaried compensation.
    No. You're wrong. Re-read the information provided at the link. Most Apple Store employees do not meet the requirements to be classified as exempt.
    chemengin1
  • Reply 29 of 56
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,004member
    Dogperson said:
     This is interesting because in 2014 the Supreme Court ruled against employees of an Amazon temp agency for the same leaving the plant time pay issue .
    That was an interpretation of federal law. This is an interpretation of California law.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 30 of 56
    xbitxbit Posts: 360member
    A good lawyer would have told Apple not to fight this through the courts. It’s a PR disaster.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 31 of 56
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,191member
    It won't just be Apple. Costco searches every employee, every day of the week.
    That's fine and their right. Just do it as the approach the time clock, not after.

    I said this was a scammy practice back when the news broke. If you're off the clock, you get to leave, if you're detained, then you're on the clock. It's simple.

    Many companies ban bags. A few, more realistic companies provide lockers 'outside the wire'. They're searched inside upon leaving just prior to crossing. Easy peasy.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 32 of 56
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,606member
    Nothing wrong with being profit driven for shareholders but as they make so much money with massive margins they really could afford to actually be good guys at all levels of business. Instead they end up looking like dicks fighting this in court rather than changing their ways and coming off like a scumbag penny pinching employer.
    macguidysamoria
  • Reply 33 of 56
    bdonovanw said:
    linkman said:
    To counter those that are saying that Apple should make most of the store employees salaried: in the US they are covered by federal labor and wage laws and because of the nature of the tasks the employees do most of them must be paid hourly. See https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
    Nonsense. All store employees could be fired and rehired under salaried compensation.
    No. You're wrong. Re-read the information provided at the link. Most Apple Store employees do not meet the requirements to be classified as exempt.
    I live in California. The State is terrible for businesses because the progressive Leftists who control the state are all union puppets. It’s really no wonder why businesses continue to flee the state in record numbers.

    https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2018/12/13/1-800-companies-left-california-in-a-year-with.html

    And if Tim and Apple are paying attention to the way the state is going they have a plan in place to move Apple out of the state also.
    edited February 2020
  • Reply 34 of 56
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,422member
    It won't just be Apple. Costco searches every employee, every day of the week.
    Ten years ago they did not pay employees for the time they spent in an exit check. I'm not sure that's still the case. The last mention (complaint) I can find of it was in 2011.
  • Reply 35 of 56
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,422member
    Dogperson said:
     This is interesting because in 2014 the Supreme Court ruled against employees of an Amazon temp agency for the same leaving the plant time pay issue .
    The technical difference between Amazon and this case is that it was a third party who contracted with Amazon to supply temporary employees while Apple is the first party. Because that third party's contract with those workers did not stipulate they would be paid "for standing in lines" while at Amazon SCOTUS found it to be a contract law issue, a contract between the 3rd party and workers rather than with Amazon directly, and not strictly worker's rights and reversed the lower court. 
    edited February 2020 dysamoria
  • Reply 36 of 56
    Looks like they should fire half the retail staff and put everyone on salary instead of hourly. Would make the security checks go faster and there would be no overtime pay.
    That's not the way the overtime laws work.  The department of labor determines what types of job are "non-exempt" from these labor laws and that's it.  So Apple couldn't simply say that "salespeople are now salaried."
    chemengin1dysamoria
  • Reply 37 of 56
    zoetmb said:
    If Apple had proper inventory control (all stock is locked in a cage and has to be checked out when sold to a customer) then such searches wouldn't be necessary because there'd be nothing to steal except for what's on the floor and that could be easily observed.  

    Great point.  Apple can simply eliminate their innovative and incredibly successful retail model to save a few bucks on anti-theft processes.  /s
  • Reply 38 of 56
    bdonovanw said:
    linkman said:
    To counter those that are saying that Apple should make most of the store employees salaried: in the US they are covered by federal labor and wage laws and because of the nature of the tasks the employees do most of them must be paid hourly. See https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
    Nonsense. All store employees could be fired and rehired under salaried compensation.
    No. You're wrong. Re-read the information provided at the link. Most Apple Store employees do not meet the requirements to be classified as exempt.
    Exactly.

    https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

    Employees whose jobs are governed by the FLSA are either "exempt" or "nonexempt." Nonexempt employees are entitled to overtime pay. Exempt employees are not. Most employees covered by the FLSA are nonexempt. Some are not.

    Some jobs are classified as exempt by definition. For example, "outside sales" employees are exempt ("inside sales" employees are nonexempt).


    chemengin1dysamoria
  • Reply 39 of 56
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    Looks like they should fire half the retail staff and put everyone on salary instead of hourly. Would make the security checks go faster and there would be no overtime pay.
    Oh and take away benefits while you are at it, thank goodness you don't run Apple. 
    chemengin1dysamoria
  • Reply 40 of 56
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member

    zoetmb said:
    Looks like they should fire half the retail staff and put everyone on salary instead of hourly. Would make the security checks go faster and there would be no overtime pay.
    May be a stupid question considering who I'm writing it to, but why are you defending Apple?   Workers deserve to be compensated for their time.  It's either my time or your time.  If it's your time, you have to pay me.  

    But you're right - they could put these employees on a flat salary and if they classify them as "exempt", they wouldn't get overtime pay.   So why doesn't Apple do that?  Because Apple wants flexibility in cutting staff hours and they don't want to pay them for a full 40 hours a week.  

    It's not like these jobs pay well.   If Apple can't trust their own employees, then they should pay them for the time.   The court ruled properly, IMO.   I worked in retail when I was a student in the 1970's and I was NEVER searched or had to submit to any kind of security check.   And I actually got Into trouble for working through lunch hour, knowing that I would NOT be paid for that hour, but did so because we were short staffed (and I would still make spiffs and commissions).   

    If Apple had proper inventory control (all stock is locked in a cage and has to be checked out when sold to a customer) then such searches wouldn't be necessary because there'd be nothing to steal except for what's on the floor and that could be easily observed.  

    Security checks aren’t uncommon and I’ve never heard of anyone being compensated for waiting in a line to be checked. Don’t like it? Quit and get a job at the Post Office.
    I see you are "company man" and think being employed means giving away all your rights as a worker. The reason there are laws in place for workers is because of people who think like you. 
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguychemengin1urashiddysamoria
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