Perhaps my lenses are just a bit tinted, but I still just get the sense that France likes poking their finger into the eye of the U.S. They get off on using the U.N. to brandish power their economy and population size would no longer confer to them.
Some quotes from both articles...
Quote:
He said there should be greater intelligence sharing in the campaign against terrorism, and co-operation to limit the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Highlighting the looming crisis in North Korea, he proposed a permanent group of UN weapons inspectors. Having threatened to veto UN approval for military action, M de Villepin insisted: "The UN must be at the heart of the reconstruction and administration of Iraq. The legitimacy of our action depends on it."
From Colander's article...
Quote:
France's main priority in the reconstruction of Iraq would be for the UN to pass a humanitarian resolution on the oil-for-food programme, he said. And in the rebuilding as a whole, the UN had to have supremacy, he said.
"The UN must steer the process," Mr De Villepin told the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
"More importantly, the UN must be at the heart of the reconstruction and administration of Iraq.
"The legitimacy of our action depends on it.
My two questions would be, if France proposes oil for food, does that make them a bunch of facist oil baron/whores like all the fine leftists on here continually claim of Bush?
Second would be that since the U.S. provides the majority of the U.N. funding, troops, and likely aid, both humanitarian and likely finanical in this case, what would really be the point of allowing the U.N. to dictate the terms except for France to feel more important than their real role would dictate.
No one is saying that France couldn't grant Iraq billions of dollars of loans or that France couldn't send their own troops over to assist the current coalition with maintaining the peace once the current regime has been toppled.
Rather it is that France would prefer to tell the U.S. how it's own troops and billions must be handled via the U.N.
It's wonderful how the French Muslim community, who used to boo the French national anthem when they played eg Algeria have been united by Chirac's stand. He's managed to do more for integration then any of his predecessors.
Result: less terror in France.
Meanwhile, we go on doing the "liberating" and the wider Muslim community hate us for it. As the .sig says, "Wishing is for suckers," but no matter how hard you wish the wider Muslim community hates us more every day, and the Iraqi's aren't exactly showering us with fukcing flowers either.
Oh yeh, expect a permanent level of terrorist acts against the occupying administration which the US will be utterly powerless to prevent unless the guy running the place is an Iraqi Muslim, chosen by the UN prior to Iraqi elections. Which is as likely as the Pentagon choosing me to run the place.
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
If anything, now that they are a unified community, they will be able to do so much more than boo at soccer games. Perhaps France has a lot more to look forward to than you might imagine.
When a diplomat announces support it is more than you or I saying that we want the US to win
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
If anything, now that they are a unified community, they will be able to do so much more than boo at soccer games. Perhaps France has a lot more to look forward to than you might imagine.
Nick
Yeh, I guess you could read my post.
Chirac has got ordinary Muslims onto the side of the country. They are less likely to BECOME terrorists. Either at home or abroad.
When a diplomat announces support it is more than you or I saying that we want the US to win
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
if france didn't want anythign to do with the war at the begining, they should not get to dictate how the ending goes
its like that childhood story about those animals who dont want to help that...chicken or rooster was it?...that wanted to make bread...all the animals didnt' watn to help but they wanted the final product...damn greedy animals
aka frace haha i'm jk i dont dislike france, just think they made a bad decision
He's totally right. France not only opposed the war (which, of course, it has the right to do), but seemed to go out of their way to thwart and obstruct us at every turn. They really showed their hand.
NOW, they want a piece of the reconstruction/rebuilding pie?
Uh, no. Bug off.
And as groverat said above, anyone who thinks France is being the way they are because of some noble, principled stand is out to lunch and will never get it.
All the people screaming about Bush, Cheney, big oil, Haliburton, greed, etc. never seem to apply the same standards to Chirac and France, do they? Apparently only the U.S. is capable of acting in a greedy, shady manner regarding war, business, money, etc.?
France (the leaders, diplomats and 80% of their population) can go kiss it on Main Street.
Chirac has got ordinary Muslims onto the side of the country. They are less likely to BECOME terrorists. Either at home or abroad.
Harald,
I read your post properly. I was just poking fun at your naivity. Just because they are unified in a country doesn't mean they necessarily support the country. The presumption there is yours and I simply chose not to make it. They are in France. They are unified in their desire to not support a war in Iraq but that does not necessarily mean they support the French government.
Also as many sympathetic people here will tell you, terrorism has nothing to do with whether you agree with a government's position on something. It is a means of undermining societal institutions and bringing about chaos in which you can work for the change you desire. You might be surprised how many aspects of the way governments and states work that are based on nothing but assumptions. You make silly assumptions even about the security of your own home that no one bothers to test. Terrorists are glad to do that testing though.
When a diplomat announces support it is more than you or I saying that we want the US to win
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
The question was put directly to the man. It isn't some sort of chicanery where they were attempting to get him to support the war. Rather they asked how France would like the war to resolve and he wouldn't state who he would want to win.
But of course the second the war is over, France wants the U.N. to award contracts to rebuild Iraq and wants them to oversee it.
I say we give them what they wanted all along. After we have ousted Saddam and destroyed all the chemical weapons. We can let France oversee the inspectors that can remain afterwards. Of course it will have a brand new government and all their previous weapons will be destroyed, but hey the inspections will be about as effective as they were before and France will feel important. Plus as Harald has pointed out they will keep all those future terrorists in check because they won't boo at soccer games anymore.
I heard that France recently tried to secure oil rights in Iraq after the US/UK took it over.
Now that's plain hypocrisy. I don't care if they're anti war, and I can forgive them for using some questionable means of pushing their agenda (The US wasn't exactly honorable in pushing their agenda, any more than France), but this? They've made it clear they're against the war, they don't make the sacrifices, they don't reap the benefits.
I read your post properly. I was just poking fun at your naivity.
Who the hell is naive?
Those who think war is going to end terrorism despite this NEVER having worked EVER ...
... or me, who points out the stone cold fact that Muslim sentiment in France has never been better?
The idea was to DECREASE the amount of terror, yes?
(and by the way, my post never mentioned "unity" of Muslims but integration into mainstream France; increased unity with Christians largely. read it again fella)
Communist eh? If it weren't for me and Davy Crockett you'd be eatin your burrito with no carne asade and hawking cheap trinkets right this minute to the people waiting to get into the US at the Oklahoma border right now. You remember Oklahoma right? That's where Bob "Chiraq" Stoops and the Sooners dwell as the sole hyperpower of Big 12 football. In this analogy, Longhorn = France and Sooner = US.
Except occasionally Oklahoma State beats the crap out of OU. He typed from an office on the campus.
France opposes American reconstruction because they think the war is illegal . . . illegal because it is a breach of international soveriegnity done against the UN . . .
they don't want us Capitalizing from what amounts to an illegal action, illegal against the only international organ of mediation, therefor, a crime
We invade in order to make a profit?!?!? well, if not then let's not force the issue and let the UN rebuild
Those who think war is going to end terrorism despite this NEVER having worked EVER ...
... or me, who points out the stone cold fact that Muslim sentiment in France has never been better?
The idea was to DECREASE the amount of terror, yes?
(and by the way, my post never mentioned "unity" of Muslims but integration into mainstream France; increased unity with Christians largely. read it again fella)
Look, you brought it up. I call it as I see it. You said that Chirac opposing the war has "intergrated" the Muslims within mainstream France. Your proof for this was less booing at soccer games.
Suppose I said that Islamic people were integrating with the U.S. and cited as proof their attendence at our universities through the student visa system.
If you care to show some proof that among the very militant minority of islamic people that they somehow have changed their minds about Jihad against western nations, I will be happy to view it and draw conclusions from it. Until then I will just assuming that the lack of booing means they enjoy the French National Anthem.
It's wonderful how the French Muslim community, who used to boo the French national anthem when they played eg Algeria have been united by Chirac's stand. He's managed to do more for integration then any of his predecessors.
This is all very confusing to me. You talk about French integration at a time when hate crimes are on the rise as evidenced by stats that have been making the news this week. I'm too lazy to find a link but I'm sure you can find as much easily. How do you reconcile those facts with your contention of increased French unity? Or does it only matter that the North African Muslim community is reconciled with the French Atheist/Christian community regardless of their common spite for the Jewish community in France?
Quote:
Except occasionally Oklahoma State beats the crap out of OU. He typed from an office on the campus.
Stillwater does look like Ho Chi Minh City I s'pose. Or perhaps Baghdad, we shall see.
And obviously it would be Mack Brown who is Chiraq rather than Stoops and Stoops would be Shrubbery. I guess Blair would be Franchione. I'll have to think about that one. And Belgium is based in Waco. I mixed my dominance allegory with my dislike allegory which is how I wound up with Stoops as Chiraq. I apologize for my stupidity in this specific case and also in general as well.
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
Nick
Unlike Charles Xavier you are not a good telepath. You make conclusions based upon nothing. When you don't know a subject it's better to try to avoid it. I will not risk to speak of the integrations of latino in US : i have no clue about this, it will be better for me to not make any comments, worse to make predictions about them.
Thanks the general for this link. Weird is how things are becoming hysterical when the word french appears on these boards.
If it makes you feel any better Powerdoc I've been adding one 'French' something to my day, everyday, for a while. Maybe 'French' fries, or French wine instead of Italian. I'm doing my share.
Comments
Some quotes from both articles...
He said there should be greater intelligence sharing in the campaign against terrorism, and co-operation to limit the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Highlighting the looming crisis in North Korea, he proposed a permanent group of UN weapons inspectors. Having threatened to veto UN approval for military action, M de Villepin insisted: "The UN must be at the heart of the reconstruction and administration of Iraq. The legitimacy of our action depends on it."
From Colander's article...
France's main priority in the reconstruction of Iraq would be for the UN to pass a humanitarian resolution on the oil-for-food programme, he said. And in the rebuilding as a whole, the UN had to have supremacy, he said.
"The UN must steer the process," Mr De Villepin told the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
"More importantly, the UN must be at the heart of the reconstruction and administration of Iraq.
"The legitimacy of our action depends on it.
My two questions would be, if France proposes oil for food, does that make them a bunch of facist oil baron/whores like all the fine leftists on here continually claim of Bush?
Second would be that since the U.S. provides the majority of the U.N. funding, troops, and likely aid, both humanitarian and likely finanical in this case, what would really be the point of allowing the U.N. to dictate the terms except for France to feel more important than their real role would dictate.
No one is saying that France couldn't grant Iraq billions of dollars of loans or that France couldn't send their own troops over to assist the current coalition with maintaining the peace once the current regime has been toppled.
Rather it is that France would prefer to tell the U.S. how it's own troops and billions must be handled via the U.N.
Nick
Originally posted by Harald
It's wonderful how the French Muslim community, who used to boo the French national anthem when they played eg Algeria have been united by Chirac's stand. He's managed to do more for integration then any of his predecessors.
Result: less terror in France.
Meanwhile, we go on doing the "liberating" and the wider Muslim community hate us for it. As the .sig says, "Wishing is for suckers," but no matter how hard you wish the wider Muslim community hates us more every day, and the Iraqi's aren't exactly showering us with fukcing flowers either.
Oh yeh, expect a permanent level of terrorist acts against the occupying administration which the US will be utterly powerless to prevent unless the guy running the place is an Iraqi Muslim, chosen by the UN prior to Iraqi elections. Which is as likely as the Pentagon choosing me to run the place.
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
If anything, now that they are a unified community, they will be able to do so much more than boo at soccer games. Perhaps France has a lot more to look forward to than you might imagine.
Nick
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
Originally posted by trumptman
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
If anything, now that they are a unified community, they will be able to do so much more than boo at soccer games. Perhaps France has a lot more to look forward to than you might imagine.
Nick
Yeh, I guess you could read my post.
Chirac has got ordinary Muslims onto the side of the country. They are less likely to BECOME terrorists. Either at home or abroad.
Originally posted by pfflam
When a diplomat announces support it is more than you or I saying that we want the US to win
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
if france didn't want anythign to do with the war at the begining, they should not get to dictate how the ending goes
its like that childhood story about those animals who dont want to help that...chicken or rooster was it?...that wanted to make bread...all the animals didnt' watn to help but they wanted the final product...damn greedy animals
aka frace
NOW, they want a piece of the reconstruction/rebuilding pie?
Uh, no. Bug off.
And as groverat said above, anyone who thinks France is being the way they are because of some noble, principled stand is out to lunch and will never get it.
All the people screaming about Bush, Cheney, big oil, Haliburton, greed, etc. never seem to apply the same standards to Chirac and France, do they? Apparently only the U.S. is capable of acting in a greedy, shady manner regarding war, business, money, etc.?
France (the leaders, diplomats and 80% of their population) can go kiss it on Main Street.
Originally posted by Harald
Yeh, I guess you could read my post.
Chirac has got ordinary Muslims onto the side of the country. They are less likely to BECOME terrorists. Either at home or abroad.
Harald,
I read your post properly. I was just poking fun at your naivity. Just because they are unified in a country doesn't mean they necessarily support the country. The presumption there is yours and I simply chose not to make it. They are in France. They are unified in their desire to not support a war in Iraq but that does not necessarily mean they support the French government.
Also as many sympathetic people here will tell you, terrorism has nothing to do with whether you agree with a government's position on something. It is a means of undermining societal institutions and bringing about chaos in which you can work for the change you desire. You might be surprised how many aspects of the way governments and states work that are based on nothing but assumptions. You make silly assumptions even about the security of your own home that no one bothers to test. Terrorists are glad to do that testing though.
Nick
Originally posted by pfflam
When a diplomat announces support it is more than you or I saying that we want the US to win
You are looking for a dog to kick when the one in front of you scares you too much.
France has stated that they thought that the war at this time would be a bad idea (something that becomes more and more evident everyday) and that if approached at all it should be done through the only global legitimizing body available, the UN
your piss-ant ranting against France is idiotic and misguided . . .
what did you expect?!?! that a country which stated before the war that they did not want to support a war would suddenly jump in behind us once one of their 'fellow Westerners' (white person) gets shot?!?!?
The question was put directly to the man. It isn't some sort of chicanery where they were attempting to get him to support the war. Rather they asked how France would like the war to resolve and he wouldn't state who he would want to win.
But of course the second the war is over, France wants the U.N. to award contracts to rebuild Iraq and wants them to oversee it.
I say we give them what they wanted all along. After we have ousted Saddam and destroyed all the chemical weapons. We can let France oversee the inspectors that can remain afterwards. Of course it will have a brand new government and all their previous weapons will be destroyed, but hey the inspections will be about as effective as they were before and France will feel important. Plus as Harald has pointed out they will keep all those future terrorists in check because they won't boo at soccer games anymore.
Nick
Idiocy reigns.
Now that's plain hypocrisy. I don't care if they're anti war, and I can forgive them for using some questionable means of pushing their agenda (The US wasn't exactly honorable in pushing their agenda, any more than France), but this? They've made it clear they're against the war, they don't make the sacrifices, they don't reap the benefits.
Originally posted by trumptman
Harald,
I read your post properly. I was just poking fun at your naivity.
Who the hell is naive?
Those who think war is going to end terrorism despite this NEVER having worked EVER ...
... or me, who points out the stone cold fact that Muslim sentiment in France has never been better?
The idea was to DECREASE the amount of terror, yes?
(and by the way, my post never mentioned "unity" of Muslims but integration into mainstream France; increased unity with Christians largely. read it again fella)
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Communist eh? If it weren't for me and Davy Crockett you'd be eatin your burrito with no carne asade and hawking cheap trinkets right this minute to the people waiting to get into the US at the Oklahoma border right now. You remember Oklahoma right? That's where Bob "Chiraq" Stoops and the Sooners dwell as the sole hyperpower of Big 12 football. In this analogy, Longhorn = France and Sooner = US.
Except occasionally Oklahoma State beats the crap out of OU. He typed from an office on the campus.
Cheers
Scott
they don't want us Capitalizing from what amounts to an illegal action, illegal against the only international organ of mediation, therefor, a crime
We invade in order to make a profit?!?!? well, if not then let's not force the issue and let the UN rebuild
France Insists it wants US to win war
Originally posted by Harald
Who the hell is naive?
Those who think war is going to end terrorism despite this NEVER having worked EVER ...
... or me, who points out the stone cold fact that Muslim sentiment in France has never been better?
The idea was to DECREASE the amount of terror, yes?
(and by the way, my post never mentioned "unity" of Muslims but integration into mainstream France; increased unity with Christians largely. read it again fella)
Look, you brought it up. I call it as I see it. You said that Chirac opposing the war has "intergrated" the Muslims within mainstream France. Your proof for this was less booing at soccer games.
Suppose I said that Islamic people were integrating with the U.S. and cited as proof their attendence at our universities through the student visa system.
If you care to show some proof that among the very militant minority of islamic people that they somehow have changed their minds about Jihad against western nations, I will be happy to view it and draw conclusions from it. Until then I will just assuming that the lack of booing means they enjoy the French National Anthem.
Nick
Originally posted by groverat
Hush your face, communist.
I was planning on holding powerdoc hostage until Chiraq supported our unilateral war of unilateralism. Thanks for screwing up the plan.
I am ready to be an hostage if you take carefull of me. And to take carefull of me you need various things :
- Hot chicks for (close) bodyguards
- good food
- free access to golf everyday in order to maintain my good health.
I think that texas has these required duties, except for the wine, the one coming from the mapa valley should be perfect however
Originally posted by The General
Well, it seems France is now saying it wants the U.S. to win.
France Insists it wants US to win war
Thanks the general for this link. Weird is how things are becoming hysterical when the word french appears on these boards.
It's wonderful how the French Muslim community, who used to boo the French national anthem when they played eg Algeria have been united by Chirac's stand. He's managed to do more for integration then any of his predecessors.
This is all very confusing to me. You talk about French integration at a time when hate crimes are on the rise as evidenced by stats that have been making the news this week. I'm too lazy to find a link but I'm sure you can find as much easily. How do you reconcile those facts with your contention of increased French unity? Or does it only matter that the North African Muslim community is reconciled with the French Atheist/Christian community regardless of their common spite for the Jewish community in France?
Except occasionally Oklahoma State beats the crap out of OU. He typed from an office on the campus.
Stillwater does look like Ho Chi Minh City I s'pose. Or perhaps Baghdad, we shall see.
And obviously it would be Mack Brown who is Chiraq rather than Stoops and Stoops would be Shrubbery. I guess Blair would be Franchione. I'll have to think about that one. And Belgium is based in Waco. I mixed my dominance allegory with my dislike allegory which is how I wound up with Stoops as Chiraq. I apologize for my stupidity in this specific case and also in general as well.
Originally posted by trumptman
Harald, you should be happy. Now Chirac has brought the Muslim community together. They are united and will now be united in their hate toward any democratic, non-islamic country they happen to live in.
Nick
Unlike Charles Xavier you are not a good telepath. You make conclusions based upon nothing. When you don't know a subject it's better to try to avoid it. I will not risk to speak of the integrations of latino in US : i have no clue about this, it will be better for me to not make any comments, worse to make predictions about them.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Thanks the general for this link. Weird is how things are becoming hysterical when the word french appears on these boards.
If it makes you feel any better Powerdoc I've been adding one 'French' something to my day, everyday, for a while. Maybe 'French' fries, or French wine instead of Italian. I'm doing my share.