Well, now I guess we know where Rump got his info from. Cook and Rump, neither with medical experience, are claiming the corner has turned despite counter-evidence from the CDC and WHO.
Cook was speaking of China where all experts acknowledge that the virus has peaked -- THERE... (Although by lifting the quarantines, that could change)
For us, it's a freight train headed straight at us. We appear to be completely unprepared: No plans and our CDC has been largely gutted, no testing kits, no protective gear....
The lack of testing kits may be the most concerning because there are two ways to contain the virus: Mass restrictions & quarantines and large scale testing (China has done both). As a free democracy I doubt out government would have the will to impose the kind of quarantines, closures and restrictions that China has (and Trump is only worried about the stock market anyway) and we have far fewer testing kits than they do.* But, it sounds like testing is only being done once somebody shows symptoms: Since the person can be infected for weeks prior to that, we need a way to identify those infected far earlier.
From Reuters: "Currently, just seven state and local health departments have the
ability to screen for the virus, the Association of Public Health
Laboratories (APHL) said on Wednesday. CDC-developed tests issued three
weeks ago were producing inaccurate results in some labs, so new tests
had to be made and cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
(FDA), leaving many labs with no local testing capability, the group
said.
The CDC and FDA have worked out a fix that will allow 40
more public health labs to do testing by the end of next week, the
APHL’s Chief Executive Scott Becker told Reuters.
In the meantime, the burden has fallen largely on the CDC, which does testing for most of the country on its campus in Atlanta.
“Unfortunately,
we are now in the bottom tier in countries capable of doing
population-based testing,” said Dr. Michael Osterholm, director of the
Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of
Minnesota."
Maybe China could send us some of their testing kits?
Yup, that's his job, and he does it well. Exploiting low cost labor for huge profits to stockholders who create nothing. Good job.
You make it sound like that's a bad thing.
Tim Cook has done a great job as CEO.
Would you prefer somebody who uses high cost labor and not making their company much profits?
You are welcome to run your own company in that way, if that's how you roll.
Yeh, but too, Apple has made it clear that they are not in China to "exploit low cost labor" (that's why Samsung moved to Vietnam). Instead they are there because China is the world's top manufacturing hub. China simply does it better, faster and, ultimately, cheaper than anywhere else. In short, Apple is there for a quality manufacturing experience -- not the "cheap labor".
Don't worry Tim and Apple fans, a drug company lobbyist is now running the American CDC, guess who appointed him. What could go wrong?
I'm guessing a lot less than with a bureaucrat in charge.kestral said:
I love the part where Tim talks about how they have parts from countries other than USA and China and then fails to mention any. Beaker from the Muppet Show.
Is it normal for CEO's to give up secret business advantages?
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
I believe a lot of passionate comments here are due to the lack of information about how this virus works, how it can take time to show up in people who have been exposed, how long it takes to recover if infected and how many people have succumbed to it that were healthy.
Tim and other public figures have to put on a positive face, otherwise what fragile confidence the world has on recovering will collapse and we will have chaos as fear overtakes rationality.
It’s apparent that China was too slow to react in identifying and isolating this virus when they first saw cases of this. It would’ve been difficult to contain that many people anyway, so I don’t know if this virus originated in another country wouldn’t have been contained any better.
Now the world is panicking because of cases popping up all over with no real signs of tracing the origins of the infection. Rather than continue to panic, everyone has to work together to educate, contain, and treat this virus.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances? Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce? See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against. Where's the line you won't cross? The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
I wasn't talking of low-end, commodity type junk. Yes, that will always go to the lowest bidder -- and it is already moving out of China to low cost shops in underdeveloped countries. China is doing more high end manufacturing -- and increasingly design and development. The kind we used to do here.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
Sorry, but it seems to me that you are both wrong: Tim has been very clear that he isn't in China for cheap labor but for their manufacturing expertise and abilities.
Cheap labor is easy to come by. Quality, dependable, efficient manufacturing is hard.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances? Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce? See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against. Where's the line you won't cross? The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed.
My sense is that his opinion is a bit more nuanced than what you seem to think it is.
There is a difference between greedy, exploitive capitalism and responsible capitalism. Two Pittsburgh tycoons of the golden industrial era make good examples: Carnegie (actually Frick) were brutal captains of industry who even went so far as to gun down strikers which ended with one of them shooting Frick 5 times (but he was too tough to die!). Westinghouse on the other hand treated his employees as equals and treated them fairly -- and they would do anything for him. Both built highly successful organizations benefited the world and the people living in it.
Like socialism, capitalism is just an economic system and is neither inherently all good or all bad. It's kind of what you make of it.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances? Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce? See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against. Where's the line you won't cross? The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed.
"So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances?
of course I mind, but there are no longer alternatives for most consumer goods especially Apple products. I also hold onto my iMacs for 5 years before buying a new model, I give my previous iMacs away to family and friends there are 2 iMacs I previous owned in use and not in a landfill. I bought the Apple Watch 0 series and bought the series 5 six years later, I gave my first Apple Watch to a friend as well.
"Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce?"
That's exactly what I did in the 1990's, my first Power Mac was the low-end model and it cost me $2000 without a monitor, My G3 tower was close to $3,000 which in today's money would be closer to $5,000. I never fell for the constant upgrade stuff and especially despise the subscription method of buying a new iPhone every year, it is a waste of money, materials for minor changes.
"See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against."
Capitalism when tempered with a social democratic society can work well and the majority of citizens can benefit and there are many examples of those system active in the world today. I have visited Sweden, and Denmark every year since 1983 and have witnessed a living standard for an entire population that puts American Capitalism to shame. Did you know that every employed person receives 4-6 weeks paid vacation per year regardless of what work they do? New mothers and dads get 9 months and 6 months time off from work at half pay to take care on their newborn baby. Healthcare is for most purposes free to all with occasional minimal fees. Citizens are highly taxed but unlike Americans they actually benefit from those taxes in real life benefits while Americans get to brag about the biggest military in the world.
If you don't think that Chinese workers are not exploited you are being naive. Check out the documentary "American Factory" to understand the work "culture" differences between us and them. Then tell me that 72 hour work weeks should be acceptable for anyone.
"The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed."
First off, you have no idea how much money the rich really have. I work with their architects and designers so I get a glimpse now and then. $250,000 in cities like NY is upper middle class for real. I live in the poor part of Manhattan and a 5 story walkup apartment (not the building) on my block sold for 2 million last year. A newly converted condo is selling studio apartments (single room with a kitchen on one wall) for $770,000. I don't know what housing cost where you live but unless you are in S.F. it is most likely a lot more affordable.
The scam we live in the USA is we pay taxes and get less and less for it each year. The richer you become (not $250,000) add 3 more zeros to that figure and you pay close to noting.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances? Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce? See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against. Where's the line you won't cross? The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed.
...
If you don't think that Chinese workers are not exploited you are being naive. Check out the documentary "American Factory" to understand the work "culture" differences between us and them. Then tell me that 72 hour work weeks should be acceptable for anyone.
....
There is, somewhere, a happy medium.
In the 70's we had unskilled laborers in a steel mill making $70K (in 1970's $!) with 13 weeks vacation, guaranteed job security and cadillac level healthcare and pensions. And, that was one of the contributing factors to losing our steel industry to Japan. (It wasn't the only factor, both management & government contributed as well. But it was a major one.)
Conversely, 70 years before that workers in the exact same physical mill were working 12 hour days 6 and 7 days a week at subsistence wages, no benefits and in highly dangerous, even deadly conditions.
Both extremes are wrong. Globalization is today widely criticized. But it does appear to be the great leveler because ultimately over the long run, like nature, the free market is always in charge.
Yes, jobs that pay above minimum wage is what built the middle class, 40 years ago we paid what things actually cost to make without using slave labor.
There is no slave labor. That would be false.
The Chinese workers make a decent wage.
And if anybody truly believes that Apple uses slave labor and those same people go around making slanderous, false and dumb claims, why in the world would they continue to use any Apple products or even come to an Apple forum?
These people obviously have zero principles in addition to having a very loose relationship with the truth and facts.
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
Perhaps the reasons you site are the same reasons American industry started becoming Asian industry 50 years ago.
100+ years ago America became the industrial center of the world by being the best and the cheapest. Now that title belongs to Asia -- and mostly to China. When and only when we can reclaim being the best and the cheapest will industry be returning here.
The type of industry you mentioned will never come back to the USA. Here's an example, I walked by a store on lower 5th Ave here in NYC, men's jeans were $15 a pair. When I entered the 7th grade in 1970 I recall buying a pair of pants in my small hometown's Main Street those pants were $15, Forty some years ago we bought things made by union workers, people I knew parent's were union workers, we all had what we needed to get by and be happy. Today consuming is non stop, the price of clothes, and other manufactured things are way below where they should be to encourage more consumption. The way this is done is to keep labor cost as low as possible and that is only possible in countries which are controlled by dictatorships like China. Every time you buy an Apple product a dictator gets his wings.
So can we assume you neither own nor use any Apple products? If you do, why? If not, why are you here? Very simple questions but I'm thinking you won't answer them. Or are you just a hypocrite who doesn't put their pocketbook where their ideology is?
First Mac was the 6100 Power Mac, bought new in I believe 94'. Most recent purchase, Apple Watch white ceramic series 5, 2019 iMac 3.7 ghz, owned various iPads and the original iPhone bought on launch day at the Soho Store in NYC. in 2007. Never owned a PC, or non Apple cell phone. I got my employer in the 90's to switch from PC's to Macs. Unlike so many of you I do not defend Apple's missteps and am openly critical of bad products and software because they are all a bunch of grownups who make tons of money and can handle it. I have also introduced many friends to Apple over the years including those "beleaguered years". I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
So you don't mind a dictator getting his wings when you buy Apple products, or Chinese made clothing, or Chinese made appliances? Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce? See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against. Where's the line you won't cross? The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed.
...
If you don't think that Chinese workers are not exploited you are being naive. Check out the documentary "American Factory" to understand the work "culture" differences between us and them. Then tell me that 72 hour work weeks should be acceptable for anyone.
....
There is, somewhere, a happy medium.
In the 70's we had unskilled laborers in a steel mill making $70K (in 1970's $!) with 13 weeks vacation, guaranteed job security and cadillac level healthcare and pensions. And, that was one of the contributing factors to losing our steel industry to Japan. (It wasn't the only factor, both management & government contributed as well. But it was a major one.)
Conversely, 70 years before that workers in the exact same physical mill were working 12 hour days 6 and 7 days a week at subsistence wages, no benefits and in highly dangerous, even deadly conditions.
Both extremes are wrong. Globalization is today widely criticized. But it does appear to be the great leveler because ultimately over the long run, like nature, the free market is always in charge.
My home town was the largest textile city in the world 120 years ago. Children lost limbs in the weaving machines, my grandmother told me many years ago when she was a child the city's river changed color each day depending which color dye was used by the factories. By the 1950's textile companies started moving to southern states in the USA where people were even less educated and would work for even less money. By the time I was a teenager the empty century old mills were being demolished I knew I had to leave since there was no way to make a living wage if I remained. I can't speak of the steel industry but I assume competition was their undoing when war demolished Japan rebuilt its steel industry with more modern and efficient factories it gave the US some serious competition. Blaming workers wages on killing the industry is standard excuse for company owners. Globalization is the same formula but spread over continents rather than cities, states or regions within one country. Manufacturing jobs will continue to grow where modern factories are being built and supplied by a non-union, and with little options population.
Comments
Dumb comments like this one are what make the process of choosing people who should be blocked so much easier. Adios!
From Reuters:
"Currently, just seven state and local health departments have the ability to screen for the virus, the Association of Public Health Laboratories (APHL) said on Wednesday. CDC-developed tests issued three weeks ago were producing inaccurate results in some labs, so new tests had to be made and cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), leaving many labs with no local testing capability, the group said.
The CDC and FDA have worked out a fix that will allow 40 more public health labs to do testing by the end of next week, the APHL’s Chief Executive Scott Becker told Reuters.
In the meantime, the burden has fallen largely on the CDC, which does testing for most of the country on its campus in Atlanta.
“Unfortunately, we are now in the bottom tier in countries capable of doing population-based testing,” said Dr. Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota."
Maybe China could send us some of their testing kits?
Yeh, but too, Apple has made it clear that they are not in China to "exploit low cost labor" (that's why Samsung moved to Vietnam). Instead they are there because China is the world's top manufacturing hub. China simply does it better, faster and, ultimately, cheaper than anywhere else. In short, Apple is there for a quality manufacturing experience -- not the "cheap labor".
Please watch the documentary "American Factory" don't worry it almost no subtitles. You should educate yourself to the differences to what American workers have compared to their direct counterparts in the same company's factory in China. I don't expect an apology from you but educating you would be my reward.
I am openly politically progressive and would be a perfect fit with most people who run Apple. I also like to argue with people with libertarian ideas who I consider selfish, only concerned about money and self wealth. Proud New Yorker who speaks his mind and has super low tolerance for bullshit artist such as that low class street thug from Queens who scammed this country's country bumpkins into electing him as President. Any other questions?
I wasn't talking of low-end, commodity type junk. Yes, that will always go to the lowest bidder -- and it is already moving out of China to low cost shops in underdeveloped countries. China is doing more high end manufacturing -- and increasingly design and development. The kind we used to do here.
There is a difference between greedy, exploitive capitalism and responsible capitalism. Two Pittsburgh tycoons of the golden industrial era make good examples: Carnegie (actually Frick) were brutal captains of industry who even went so far as to gun down strikers which ended with one of them shooting Frick 5 times (but he was too tough to die!). Westinghouse on the other hand treated his employees as equals and treated them fairly -- and they would do anything for him. Both built highly successful organizations benefited the world and the people living in it.
Like socialism, capitalism is just an economic system and is neither inherently all good or all bad. It's kind of what you make of it.
of course I mind, but there are no longer alternatives for most consumer goods especially Apple products. I also hold onto my iMacs for 5 years before buying a new model, I give my previous iMacs away to family and friends there are 2 iMacs I previous owned in use and not in a landfill. I bought the Apple Watch 0 series and bought the series 5 six years later, I gave my first Apple Watch to a friend as well.
"Would you mind paying double for your Apple products if they were truly made in America by a unionized workforce?"
That's exactly what I did in the 1990's, my first Power Mac was the low-end model and it cost me $2000 without a monitor, My G3 tower was close to $3,000 which in today's money would be closer to $5,000. I never fell for the constant upgrade stuff and especially despise the subscription method of buying a new iPhone every year, it is a waste of money, materials for minor changes.
"See, that's the trouble I have with your kind of attitude. You rage against capitalism for its so-called exploitation of workers yet you continue to participate in the very evil you rage against."
Capitalism when tempered with a social democratic society can work well and the majority of citizens can benefit and there are many examples of those system active in the world today. I have visited Sweden, and Denmark every year since 1983 and have witnessed a living standard for an entire population that puts American Capitalism to shame. Did you know that every employed person receives 4-6 weeks paid vacation per year regardless of what work they do? New mothers and dads get 9 months and 6 months time off from work at half pay to take care on their newborn baby. Healthcare is for most purposes free to all with occasional minimal fees. Citizens are highly taxed but unlike Americans they actually benefit from those taxes in real life benefits while Americans get to brag about the biggest military in the world.
If you don't think that Chinese workers are not exploited you are being naive. Check out the documentary "American Factory" to understand the work "culture" differences between us and them. Then tell me that 72 hour work weeks should be acceptable for anyone.
"The arbitrary line between the rich and the middle class has been set at $250,000.00 by liberal politicians. If you make more than $250,000.00/yr you are part of the problem and you need to have your wealth confiscated and redistributed."
First off, you have no idea how much money the rich really have. I work with their architects and designers so I get a glimpse now and then. $250,000 in cities like NY is upper middle class for real. I live in the poor part of Manhattan and a 5 story walkup apartment (not the building) on my block sold for 2 million last year. A newly converted condo is selling studio apartments (single room with a kitchen on one wall) for $770,000. I don't know what housing cost where you live but unless you are in S.F. it is most likely a lot more affordable.
The scam we live in the USA is we pay taxes and get less and less for it each year. The richer you become (not $250,000) add 3 more zeros to that figure and you pay close to noting.
Both extremes are wrong.
Globalization is today widely criticized. But it does appear to be the great leveler because ultimately over the long run, like nature, the free market is always in charge.