Brazilian courts take Apple's side in iPhone slowdown lawsuits, buck international consens...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited March 2020
Apple is under fire globally for implementing an iPhone power management feature that throttled performance on devices with degraded batteries, but courts in Brazil appear to be taking the tech giant's side on the matter.

Apple's first retail location opened in Brazil back in 2014. Image credit: MacMagazine.
Apple's first retail location opened in Brazil back in 2014. Image credit: MacMagazine.


In February, the French government fined Apple $27 million for a 2017 software update containing a battery management that throttled processor performance. And in March, Apple agreed to pay $500 million in the U.S. to settle iPhone slowdown lawsuits.

Courts in Brazil, however, seem to think that Apple did nothing wrong, as local media outlet Tilt reports.

A 2018 suit leveled by the Brazilian Institute of Computer Science and Law (IBDI) requested compensation to the tune of 986.7 million Brazilian reals (about $212 million), but was dismissed by a federal court without considering the evidence. The judge in that case decided that the institute should have held an assembly of its members before taking action.

An appeal by the Federal District Public Ministry (MPDFT) was likewise defeated. In that case, Brazilian Judge Joo Egmon explicitly stated that there was no obvious planned obsolescence on Apple's part, adding that he believed Apple implemented performance throttling to mitigate random shutdowns and preserve usability.

Egmon added that he believed Apple did enough to comply with local consumer protection laws by offering discounted battery replacements in Brazil, as it did in other countries.

Two more appeals were filed by the IBDI in 2020, but based on the past court decisions, it doesn't look like they will gain any traction. The case could end up in Brazil's Supreme Federal Court, where plaintiffs will likely lean on recent international rulings in a bid to overturn lower court decisions.

The IBDI is not the only group in Brazil to scrutinize Apple's iPhone policies. Brazil's Institute for Consumer Protection (IDEC) considered taking action on about 350 reports from consumers who experienced slowdowns, but decided not to take the issue to court, citing the concurrent IBDI lawsuit. The Ministry of Justice's National Consumer Secretariat and public prosecutors in Rio and Paran opened independent investigations into Apple's practices, but those inquiries were closed after Apple introduced its battery replacement program.

On Friday, Procon-SP, a group linked to the So Paulo state government notified Apple that it is mulling action against the company in light of its U.S. settlement.

"Proconsp will ask Apple to inform if it also intends to pay the same indemnity to Brazilian consumers as it paid to North Americans; since the product is the same, the damage and injury are identical," said Fernando Capez, executive director at Procon-SP.

Apple devices accounted for about 12.38% of Brazil's smartphone market in January 2020. The Cupertino tech giant also manufactures some products at Foxconn facilities in the country.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 50
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    edited March 2020 dewmemwhiteStrangeDaysplanetary paulpujones1GeorgeBMacredgeminipaMacQcairnerdSpamSandwich
  • Reply 2 of 50
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,296member
    Good to know there are judges somewhere that understand the case and Apple’s reaction thoroughly. Such creatures are pathetically hard to find in the US.
    ItsDeCian2itivguyplanetary paulredgeminipamacplusplusjony0macguiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 50
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    Totally agree. The $500M settlement Apple is going to pay is simply a fly swatter to get the blood sucking gnats off its back. 
    mwhiteplanetary paullkruppredgeminipaairnerdjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 50
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    dewme said:
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    Totally agree. The $500M settlement Apple is going to pay is simply a fly swatter to get the blood sucking gnats off its back. 
    And the supposed affected iPhone users will each get enough for a cup of coffee while the lawyers and the court will get millions.
    mwhiten2itivguyplanetary paullkruppmacxpressredgeminipaleavingthebiggjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 50
    seanismorrisseanismorris Posts: 1,624member
    It’s not a matter of taking sides, but of breaking laws.

    They’re just saying that no Brazilian laws were broken.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 50
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    refreshing in Brazil - Peter's Principle live and well like virus in NA and EU (but crowd pleasing like POTUS).  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 50
    It’s not a matter of taking sides, but of breaking laws.

    They’re just saying that no Brazilian laws were broken.
    That’s a misrepresentation of both the lawsuit and the result.
    n2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 50
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Apple should have been more transparent in how they communicated the battery performance issues but anybody who believes that this is planned obsolescence or some evil plan on Apple's part to intentionally slow down perfectly functioning phones in order to get people to buy new phones is a complete idiot and a slobbering moron, and apparently, there are many complete idiots out there, because a lot of people believe it, and I often see that ignorant claim being made.

    I'd say that the facts are that if somebody's phone was subject to the slowdown, then their phone was not a perfectly functioning phone, since their battery was no longer optimal. Throttling happens on all sorts of devices, and I can definitely understand Apple's decision to implement some sort of throttling to deal with devices that have sub-optimal batteries. If somebody has a phone or device with an old, no longer functioning at full capacity battery, well, then I guess it's time to replace it, or just deal with using a device that has a bad battery. This applies to everything that uses batteries, not just Apple devices. 

    I'm currently vaping on some vanilla custard using a mod that uses batteries of course, and guess what's going to eventually happen when the battery is no longer capable of holding a full charge? It's not going to vape as well of course, and I will have to either replace the batteries or buy a new device.

    This is simple physics. Anybody who believes that Apple deals in planned obsolescence should be declared mentally unfit for owning any Apple devices. Low IQ people should buy Android phones instead, that would suit them much better. I still have Apple devices that are many decades old, and they fire up and function perfectly well to this day. Planned obsolescence my ass.
    edited March 2020 lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 50
    MisterKitMisterKit Posts: 495member
    If the computer in my car malfunctions  it will fall back to a basic less efficient program to keep the car running until I get to a safe place instead of shutting down. I really don’t think I have an issue with the automobile manufacturer for not being upfront that the car would slow down rather than stop completely. I guess automobile manufacturers are next in line. Better lawyer up.
    Solin2itivguyredgeminipaleavingthebiggmacplusplusjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 50
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    Don't you mean appropriate? I don't think their solution was inappropriate at all. As you mention, they really should've handled it better, but that's an ongoing issue with Apple and transparency since they are Apple and everything they do is amplified to ridiculous extremes.
    StrangeDaysbeowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 50
    MisterKit said:
    If the computer in my car malfunctions  it will fall back to a basic less efficient program to keep the car running until I get to a safe place instead of shutting down. I really don’t think I have an issue with the automobile manufacturer for not being upfront that the car would slow down rather than stop completely. I guess automobile manufacturers are next in line. Better lawyer up.
    Sorry, but everything in your analogy is 100% wrong.  There's really no appropriate car analogy you can insert into this situation.  Limp mode, what you're describing, is a preset condition of the car from the factory.  It's not secretly introduced at a later time.   Besides, a car manufacturer would never secretly introduce software to slow performance to keep it from suddenly shutting down if the battery was old or defective.  They would put another battery in it.   Which, ironically, would have been the most expedient solution for Apple from the beginning... and after all the hoopla, they ended up doing it anyway.

    However well intended Apple may have been, they went about it the wrong way.  It was definitely not better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission.  Forgiveness might cost up to half a billion dollars.  Permission could have potentially cost them nothing, AND garnered good will at the same time.


    edited March 2020 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamairnerd
  • Reply 12 of 50
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    MisterKit said:
    If the computer in my car malfunctions  it will fall back to a basic less efficient program to keep the car running until I get to a safe place instead of shutting down. I really don’t think I have an issue with the automobile manufacturer for not being upfront that the car would slow down rather than stop completely. I guess automobile manufacturers are next in line. Better lawyer up.
    Sorry, but everything in your analogy is 100% wrong.  There's really no appropriate car analogy you can insert into this situation.  Limp mode, what you're describing, is a preset condition of the car from the factory.  It's not secretly introduced at a later time.   Besides, a car manufacturer would never secretly introduce software to slow performance to keep it from suddenly shutting down if the battery was old or defective.  They would put another battery in it.   Which, ironically, would have been the most expedient solution for Apple from the beginning... and after all the hoopla, they ended up doing it anyway.
    Let me get this straight, you believe that an EV that can reach, say, 0–62 MPH in 2 seconds wouldn't be programmed to instead do 0–62 MPH in 3 seconds if there was a major reduction in the power system if the alternative was for it was to instantly shutdown when you floored it? How about if the alternative was for it to catch fire? Are you also against the iPhone choosing to shutdown when it gets too hot? I mean, it's your phone after all so you should have the right to let it burn a literal hole in your pocket if you  choose. What could go wrong?! /s
    edited March 2020 MisterKitStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 50
    Soli said:
    MisterKit said:
    If the computer in my car malfunctions  it will fall back to a basic less efficient program to keep the car running until I get to a safe place instead of shutting down. I really don’t think I have an issue with the automobile manufacturer for not being upfront that the car would slow down rather than stop completely. I guess automobile manufacturers are next in line. Better lawyer up.
    Sorry, but everything in your analogy is 100% wrong.  There's really no appropriate car analogy you can insert into this situation.  Limp mode, what you're describing, is a preset condition of the car from the factory.  It's not secretly introduced at a later time.   Besides, a car manufacturer would never secretly introduce software to slow performance to keep it from suddenly shutting down if the battery was old or defective.  They would put another battery in it.   Which, ironically, would have been the most expedient solution for Apple from the beginning... and after all the hoopla, they ended up doing it anyway.
    Let me get this straight, you believe that an EV that can reach, say, 0–62 MPH in 2 seconds wouldn't be programmed to instead do 0–62 MPH in 3 seconds if there was a major reduction in the power system if the alternative was for it was to instantly shutdown when you floored it? How about if the alternative was for it to catch fire? Are you also against the iPhone choosing to shutdown when it gets too hot? I mean, it's your phone after all so you should have the right to let it burn a literal hole in your pocket if you  choose. What could go wrong?! /s
    As I stated in the original quote, limp mode, whether in an EV or an ICE vehicle is a preset condition built into the car.  It's not comparable to an unexplained software download designed to  temporarily slowdown a phone. The phone software introduces a little hiccup and then you keep going.  Limp mode operates nothing like that.  It is designed to tell the driver the car is in dire need of service. You will not be able to operate normally until the issue is addressed.  Pull over as soon as possible for your safety.  It ain't even remotely similar. 

    Do me a favor.  Re-read your comment.  It makes no sense at all.  An EV in that nonsensical scenario, would throw up a warning about the power system and if there was a chance of catastrophic failure (that's what a shutdown would be).  It would go into limp mode or shut down completely.  If an issue was found in the battery pack, it would be replaced.  It wouldn't be secretly programmed to temporarily degrade performance.  Like I said.  There's not automotive equivalent to the iPhone battery situation here.  

    As I also said, if Apple had done the battery replacements as a first remedy, we wouldn't be in this thread.  Had they explained the software "fix" to customers before the stealth implementation, we wouldn't be in this thread.  We're in this thread because of the bassackwards way they went about their business in this situation.  Notice, I didn't say they were doing anything nefarious. They just did what they did badly and will have to pay the price for bad execution. Permission would have cost a helluva lot less than forgiveness.
    edited March 2020 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamairnerd
  • Reply 14 of 50
    MisterKitMisterKit Posts: 495member
    So if a limp mode was not originally programmed into an automobile’s computer the car would just stop and that would be okay? But if a software upgrade installed into the automobile’s software would introduce a new ‘hidden’ mode that would keep the car running instead of shutting down, that would not be okay just because the automobile manufacturer didn’t tell us about it?
    StrangeDaysmacpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 50
    chaickachaicka Posts: 257member
    Looks to me all these various nations' Govt agency want is after a piece of the 'big huge cake' (Apple's cash pile). What does the consumers really get out of those 'Fines' ruled by the court?
    MisterKitSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 50
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    chaicka said:
    Looks to me all these various nations' Govt agency want is after a piece of the 'big huge cake' (Apple's cash pile). What does the consumers really get out of those 'Fines' ruled by the court?
    A bit of reassurance that Apple are unlikely to do anything this stupid again?
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 17 of 50
    MisterKit said:
    So if a limp mode was not originally programmed into an automobile’s computer the car would just stop and that would be okay? But if a software upgrade installed into the automobile’s software would introduce a new ‘hidden’ mode that would keep the car running instead of shutting down, that would not be okay just because the automobile manufacturer didn’t tell us about it?

    Jeebus, we have lost the plot.  One thing is designed to inform the user something is wrong and needs to be fixed.  The iPhone software was designed to do neither.  In fact, it functionally did the exact opposite.  There is no valid comparison.  No matter how unrealistic a scenario you devise - ↑↑ that scenario of yours is completely unrealistic ↑↑ - you're not going to reach an apt automotive analogy.  

    As unrealistic as your scenario is, it's pretty easy to answer.  An automotive company would be sued to hell and back.  It wouldn't be okay for an automotive company to do it because it could be life threatening.  Engine overheating - secret software overrides notification, keep rollin'.  Batter pack punctured by pothole - beep bop boop system silent override, go on abut ya bidness.  There are hundreds of scenarios that highlight how monumentally bad that idea would be in an automotive setting.  Can we please move beyond trying to make car analogies work in this situation?  

    Replacing batteries or disclosure before implementation would have made this never exist imo.  
    ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamairnerd
  • Reply 18 of 50
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Soli said:
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    Don't you mean appropriate? I don't think their solution was inappropriate at all. As you mention, they really should've handled it better, but that's an ongoing issue with Apple and transparency since they are Apple and everything they do is amplified to ridiculous extremes.
    Yes, but AI only gives you 4 hours to edit a post. My bad.
    edited March 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 50
    bellsbells Posts: 140member
    rob53 said:
    dewme said:
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.
    Totally agree. The $500M settlement Apple is going to pay is simply a fly swatter to get the blood sucking gnats off its back. 
    And the supposed affected iPhone users will each get enough for a cup of coffee while the lawyers and the court will get millions.

    The courts? Tell me more. You mean the filing fee, which is probably a couple hundred dollars?
  • Reply 20 of 50
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    I don't think anyone is denying that Apple's solution to battery health issues was inappropriate. Rather the problem came from the lack of communication of how and why it was implemented. Someone suggested that instead of throttling the device without notice Apple should have presented a pop-up advising the customer of what was going to happen and offered an option to let the throttling happen or not.

    And anyone who actually believes it was an evil act of planned obsolescence by Apple to promote sales of more iPhones needs their head examined because they probably believe the Earth is flat too.

    This whole saga is a prime example of partial truths -- only looking at one side of the coin -- in order to sell a lie.

    Those who condemn Apple only see that they slowed down the phones -- and then incorrectly assume it was done in order to promote obsolescence of those phones.  

    They completely ignore or discount WHY it was done:   As somebody who was experiencing those random shut downs I was quite concerned:  A major use for my phone is for safety -- to be able to call for help if I need it.  But, if the phone would shut down at random, unpredictable times and not be able to be restarted without being attached to wall a charger (my car's 12volt outlet couldn't do it) it was not reliable enough for that purpose.

    Apple's slow-down solution solved that problem.  Yes, they should have communicated it better -- and that was probably the fault of Apple's long practice of keeping things simple and not overburdoning casual users with detail -- they instead just stressed products that "just work".  And, by slowing down the phone, they returned my phone to a product that "just worked" (although it did become a serious pain to use because of that slowness).

    We need to get back to the days of open, honest and FULL reporting of stories.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
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