"There may have been some users who did like its small size" -- in fact there are tons of us.
The iPhone SE 2020 confirms what we already knew about Apple's mobile strategy: Apple is no longer interested in innovating when it comes to form factor.
There is a good living to be had selling more expensive devices to fewer and wealthier people, and Apple does a good job with that, but one factor I think in support of the iPhone SE 2nd gen would be to provide a new entry point to Apple products. It used to be the iPod, but no-one buys dedicated music players any more, and it is now probably the second hand market. My first, and current, iPhone is an iPhone 7 Plus which I bought in the UK for £210, which is £210 Apple will never see. It's not that I can't afford £1,000 for something that is worth £1,000 to me - I am typing this on my 15" MacBook Pro which I paid nearly £2,000 for and consider money well-spent - but a handheld device I don't use much, which I am likely to drop and break or have stolen, is not worth £1,000 to me, but I could be persuaded to pay £300 or £400 for. If the lower price means I can't make my head look like a talking poo or make tiny AR dinosaurs appear on my desk or shoot TV broadcast quality video you know what, I can probably live without them.
If Apple want to drive revenue from services they need to get iOS devices into as many hands as possible, and post-coronavirus lockdown we are about to enter the worst recession in 100 years, so an affordable, entry level iPhone that does what most people want a phone to do connected to revenue-generating services seems sensible to me. Roll on the iPhone SE 2nd gen Plus.
Yawn. Check DED's archives circa 2012-2015. He insisted (among other things):
1. Apple would never have a phone with a screen bigger than 4' because the Android phones with larger screens were bad design.
I did once write that consumer interest in large fablets appeared to be a pretty low niche in Google Play analytics because that was once the case. I never recall claiming that Apple "would never have a phone with a bigger screen," but maybe you can provide a link to evidence of your claim?
2. Apple would never have an Ax SOC with more than 2 cores because Android phones only needed 4-6-8 cores because of bad design
Citation please! I did note in 2013 that Samsung and others were pursuing multiple-core CPUs that failed to deliver better performance than Apple's two core A7, because that was true. I never wrote that two cores was the maximum for all eternity though.
3. Apple would never come out with a midrange phone because it was impossible to make a good product for less than the premium prices that Apple was charging and that $400 phones like the Moto X (which won phone of the year) were bad design
Well that was true, wasn't it? Apple didn't shift to $300 iPhones, and even its new $399 SE is a minor, limited effort refresh of iPhone 8 to serve niche market segments, as this article details. That's why it is being released in the spring when nobody is buying an iPhone but Androids are all floating their new models. BTW: Moto X failed and Google sold off the rest to China. You're really bad at this arguing stuff, aren't you? Haha.
4. Apple will never offer phones at multiple price points and form factors because that was bad design that would result in inferior quality control and products, and Android OEMs like Samsung, LG, Motorola etc. offering this variety are going to be out of business any day now.
Motorla is literally out of business! It's a licensed brand on the level of Atari and Polaroid now. LG and Samsung are literally struggling with demand and shifting to $300 commodity, suffering bad design and inferior quality control and products.
Expecting an "I was wrong" and "Apple learned useful things from observing how Android OEMs were innovating with product design and marketing" would be a bit much from DED.
I love being proven wrong! I'm quite dissapointed that across my thousands of articles over the last 15 years you couldn't find one thing that I got really wrong. There are certianly many mistakes or misunderstandings I've made, so it shoudln't be so difficult to nail at least one in your off-topic mega-rant comment desperately tring to attack the author of a piece you make no criticism of. What's wrong with you dude? I imagine you're also going a bit nuts from being stuck at home. Try a hot bath.
Where's your humble apology upon being proven wrong?
Especially since according to DED, Android was supposed to have collapsed by now with Google either being a tiny company focused primarily on search and ads - which DED said was also in a steep decline and would never recover - or out of business altogether.
Google IS focused on search and ads, and Android is in a steep decline that it isn't recovering from. Remember when Apple was in a minority position and Android fans were excited about Motorola and a new Galaxy S phone and crowing about Google's super cheap tablets? Did you see what happened over the past 5-10 years? Review my work for a refresher!
Stuff like: https://www.fakesteve.net/2009/11/rabid-fanboy-guest-blogger-daniel-eran-dilger-on-why-android-will-fail.html with "The future: ... for Android, bleak"
"Google claims Android phones will be able to do this, but your experience may vary. There is also considerable risk that an Android phone may or may not be unable to play music or videos.
And this nugget:
"Who’s paying you off? Google? Verizon? Motorola?
In Gartner’s case this amounts to hilarious projections in which Gartner claims Android will outsell iPhone at some point in the future, a projection based on nothing, it would appear, other than Gartner’s own wishful thinking and decades-long hatred of Apple. At TechCrunch the problem is more serious as this “blog” has devoted itself to an irrational smear campaign against Apple that boggles the mind and has raised serious questions about the ethics of that particular site and its potential conflicts of interest in matters involving Google."
So, er, yeah. Not really.
You do know that the only article you cited here was a parody of me by a writer mocking my writing style to make absurd claims? Did you know that?
Christopher Hitchens wrote that "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" but I couldn't resist the bait.
"There may have been some users who did like its small size" -- in fact there are tons of us.
The iPhone SE 2020 confirms what we already knew about Apple's mobile strategy: Apple is no longer interested in innovating when it comes to form factor.
But a ton of people is literally about a dozen, unless they're wearing a lot of clothes and like cake, then it's about ten.
But I hear you, we all have preferences of what we'd like a company like Apple to do, specifically tailored for our whims.
The thing is, Apple knows exactly how many people bought a 4" SE, and it has some of the smartest people in the world forecasting who all would buy another one.
Maybe in the US, tech blogs can call it a cheap phone, but here, outside the US, it is not a cheap phone.
Cheap for Apple to produce though. It is a relatively a cheaper iPhone - relative to Apple's other offerings.
Not enough tech updates to justify an upgrade from the 4.5 year iPhone 6S.
I did note that Apple's pricing in international currency will be unfavorable and may likely get even worse over time, but "upgrades" are not the only reason for buying a new SE. This article specifically details two groups that are not upgrades: people buying for children and enterprise deployments. But lots of people hanging on to a 6S era phone will eventually have their phone lost, broken, etc, and the SE will be an ideal replacement option for them.
There is a good living to be had selling more expensive devices to fewer and wealthier people, and Apple does a good job with that, but one factor I think in support of the iPhone SE 2nd gen would be to provide a new entry point to Apple products. It used to be the iPod, but no-one buys dedicated music players any more, and it is now probably the second hand market. My first, and current, iPhone is an iPhone 7 Plus which I bought in the UK for £210, which is £210 Apple will never see. It's not that I can't afford £1,000 for something that is worth £1,000 to me - I am typing this on my 15" MacBook Pro which I paid nearly £2,000 for and consider money well-spent - but a handheld device I don't use much, which I am likely to drop and break or have stolen, is not worth £1,000 to me, but I could be persuaded to pay £300 or £400 for. If the lower price means I can't make my head look like a talking poo or make tiny AR dinosaurs appear on my desk or shoot TV broadcast quality video you know what, I can probably live without them.
If Apple want to drive revenue from services they need to get iOS devices into as many hands as possible, and post-coronavirus lockdown we are about to enter the worst recession in 100 years, so an affordable, entry level iPhone that does what most people want a phone to do connected to revenue-generating services seems sensible to me. Roll on the iPhone SE 2nd gen Plus.
What about AirPods and Apple Watch? They cost around what an iPod model once did.
Has it been determined if iOS 14 will support the first generation SE? If it does I’ll wait to get the second generation.
There is talk of iOS 14 ending support for A8 (which would terminate SE & 6s at iOS 13). That's why HomePod appears to be shifting from iOS to software based on tvOS, enabling Apple to limit A8 support to tvOS and make A10 Fusion the new baseline chip for iOS. iPadOS has its own codebase already.
There is a good living to be had selling more expensive devices to fewer and wealthier people, and Apple does a good job with that, but one factor I think in support of the iPhone SE 2nd gen would be to provide a new entry point to Apple products. It used to be the iPod, but no-one buys dedicated music players any more, and it is now probably the second hand market. My first, and current, iPhone is an iPhone 7 Plus which I bought in the UK for £210, which is £210 Apple will never see. It's not that I can't afford £1,000 for something that is worth £1,000 to me - I am typing this on my 15" MacBook Pro which I paid nearly £2,000 for and consider money well-spent - but a handheld device I don't use much, which I am likely to drop and break or have stolen, is not worth £1,000 to me, but I could be persuaded to pay £300 or £400 for. If the lower price means I can't make my head look like a talking poo or make tiny AR dinosaurs appear on my desk or shoot TV broadcast quality video you know what, I can probably live without them.
If Apple want to drive revenue from services they need to get iOS devices into as many hands as possible, and post-coronavirus lockdown we are about to enter the worst recession in 100 years, so an affordable, entry level iPhone that does what most people want a phone to do connected to revenue-generating services seems sensible to me. Roll on the iPhone SE 2nd gen Plus.
What about AirPods and Apple Watch? They cost around what an iPod model once did.
They do, but I would say neither is an entry point to iOS from which the iPhone is a natural upgrade in the way that the iPod was. AirPods work best with the iPhone, and the Apple Watch didn't used to work at all without an iPhone, so I think both products presume you are already in the Apple ecosystem rather than providing an entry into it. HomePod does the same thing, it helps build the garden wall a bit higher once you are in Apple's walled garden but there's not much you can do with it without at least one iOS device.
I think this is the perfect device for someone like me.
You see, I used an iPhone 6 up until October 2019, when it drowned in a pool. For years my wife questioned me for not upgrading my phone. My response was simply that my current phone still worked. I'm not the type of guy who upgrades his phone every year or two just because I want the latest and greatest. After my iPhone died last year I was tempted to buy one of the big new phones. I thought about buying an iPhone 11 but wanted to wait for the Pixel 4 and Galaxy S20 to give everyone a fair chance. However, to hold me over, I bought a prepaid LG Phoenix 4 for $30. My wife joked that I would end up keeping this phone for years but I told her that there was no way that would happen. Afterall, it's a cheap $30 phone.
Yet, what was supposed to be a temporary phone ended up changing the way I think about phones forever.
I soon realized that this inexpensive phone that cost over 20-30x less than the latest flagships was able to do 90% of the things I needed to do. Obviously, playing games and taking photos were not ideal on this device but it got the job done. That's when I realized that I don't need the latest and greatest. I use my phone mainly as a communication device and for browsing the internet when I'm not at home.
So after being able to do all these things on a $30 phone, I find it terribly difficult to spend $800-$1000 on a phone. That's why I feel that the iPhone SE, at $400, is the right device for me. It gives me everything I need with the peace of mind that the processor will be able to rip through my daily tasks. Plus I will get years of iOS updates.
As a bonus, I can use the money I save to invest on an iPad Pro. I personally would rather have an iPhone SE and an iPad Pro, than have an iPhone 11/Pro and a iPad.
Before I get ripped for being a non-techie or part of the older generation, let me just say that I have been a computer geek since I was 8 years old and I'm in my early 40's.
Great post. There is something to say about the massive overlap in functionality between Apple devices. If you only have one Apple device then I guess you need everything including the kitchen sink in that one device. Once you buy a second device the value of the redundant features go way down, becoming a convenience at best. The prime example for me is the rear camera system on the iPad. I frankly have no need for it since I have an iPhone. But I suppose there must be enough people who need a complex camera on an iPad to justify it being there, but for me it’s extra cost and baggage. Apple could probably do a lot more to allow their devices to work cooperatively and in an additive way than what they currently do. The Watch is probably the closest in this regard, so maybe they’ll learn something about developing cooperative, distributed applications for other collections of their devices.
I really wanted to buy this new iPhone SE to replace my old iPhone SE. I loved the small form factor even though I have large hands.
But, I bought an iPhone 11 Pro instead as I was headed off to a vacation in late February. I had the money saved and I was impatient. I am happy with the iPhone 11 Pro which costs $700 more.
Apple is going to sell zillions of these for a number of reasons: 1. Apple ecosystem 2. Entry price 3. Expected support life of 3+ years
I have large hands and I'm under 40. We've been waiting too long. People claim a smaller iPhone is coming within the next 3 years but we've been waiting 3+ years. I can see Apple selling a smaller "3rd size" this year. That would make sense why they went for a iPhone 6 style SE to not canibalize the upcoming smaller iPhone. That iPhone would sell like crazy considering that's a hole in the market now.
As for over pricing of Apple hardware this is actually proof positive that it is a real problem. This new iphone pretty much highlights that there is no reason for the high prices on Apple hardware. I'm pretty sure this phone is still highly profitable for Apple.
No, it just highlights you don't understand manufacturing and product pricing. This is an *old* product -- an old shell, and older components. That's how & why they're able to offer it for a low price. This is due to economies of scale. When a product is new, your costs are much higher -- you have new R&D to pay off for the first time, new assembly lines of new equipment to produce, new components to source in the supply chain, the components themselves have poorer yield, and less efficient labor on a new job. Everything thing is new, and as such is more expensive to pull off. But the older a product gets, the cheaper all of those costs become -- R&D is paid off, the assembly lines exist and are paid for, the component supply chain is established, their yield is improved, labor is better trained, etc. That is how it works, and has always worked, when it comes to physical goods.
I've launched a national product myself for my own company, and it holds true for both small entrepreneurs and big multi-nationals. New products have higher costs. The most established a product is the cheaper it gets.
Maybe in the US, tech blogs can call it a cheap phone, but here, outside the US, it is not a cheap phone.
Cheap for Apple to produce though. It is a relatively a cheaper iPhone - relative to Apple's other offerings.
Not enough tech updates to justify an upgrade from the 4.5 year iPhone 6S.
Apple has never called it their "cheap phone". That's framing from journalists, owing to its relative price position. It's Apple's less-expensive, entry-level model.
And it is certainly a justifiable upgrade from an almost 5-year-old model.
Maybe in the US, tech blogs can call it a cheap phone, but here, outside the US, it is not a cheap phone.
Cheap for Apple to produce though. It is a relatively a cheaper iPhone - relative to Apple's other offerings.
Not enough tech updates to justify an upgrade from the 4.5 year iPhone 6S.
Apple has never called it their "cheap phone". That's framing from journalists, owing to its relative price position. It's Apple's less-expensive, entry-level model.
And it is certainly a justifiable upgrade from an almost 5-year-old model.
Apple is definitely framing this as the cheap phone. To the point that the front page of Apple Spain puts the focus fully and squarely on price.
"iPhone SE - a lot of iPhone - for less
From 489€"
We shouldn't be denying this. The hook for potential iPhone users is its price. Everything else is secondary to that.
Has it been determined if iOS 14 will support the first generation SE? If it does I’ll wait to get the second generation.
There is talk of iOS 14 ending support for A8 (which would terminate SE & 6s at iOS 13). That's why HomePod appears to be shifting from iOS to software based on tvOS, enabling Apple to limit A8 support to tvOS and make A10 Fusion the new baseline chip for iOS. iPadOS has its own codebase already.
But the first generation SE has the A9 chip not the A8.
Stuff like: https://www.fakesteve.net/2009/11/rabid-fanboy-guest-blogger-daniel-eran-dilger-on-why-android-will-fail.html with "The future: ... for Android, bleak"
"Google claims Android phones will be able to do this, but your experience may vary. There is also considerable risk that an Android phone may or may not be unable to play music or videos.
And this nugget:
"Who’s paying you off? Google? Verizon? Motorola?
In Gartner’s case this amounts to hilarious projections in which Gartner claims Android will outsell iPhone at some point in the future, a projection based on nothing, it would appear, other than Gartner’s own wishful thinking and decades-long hatred of Apple. At TechCrunch the problem is more serious as this “blog” has devoted itself to an irrational smear campaign against Apple that boggles the mind and has raised serious questions about the ethics of that particular site and its potential conflicts of interest in matters involving Google."
So, er, yeah. Not really.
You do know that the only article you cited here was a parody of me by a writer mocking my writing style to make absurd claims? Did you know that?
Christopher Hitchens wrote that "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" but I couldn't resist the bait.
A walk-off, mike-drop response. Way out of Gentoo's ballpark. Nice.
Here is a case history. I have always owned an iPhone, big Apple fan. Started with the 3G, then 4, 5 and 6. My wife switched from a flip phone to the iPhone with the 6. So we have had two iPhone 6 since they were launched. Have been waiting to upgrade for a couple of years and would never consider a used or an "older" model (don't want something that is already getting obsolete). Was waiting for the 5G iPhone to launch so we could buy two of those. Plan was to keep those for several years. We were very tempted to buy the iPhone 11 this last year, but the lack of 5G stoped me from pulling the trigger. That should be a step change and I always want to buy as much new tech as possible. Just saw the iPhone SE(2) when it launched and the price versus performance caught my eye. It doesn't have the best screen, but it is good enough, it uses the latest processor so it can handle the latest camera/software tricks and is fast (our iPhone 6 can't use iOS 13), I don't really need a bigger screen, etc... So I ordered two iPhone SE(2)'s yesterday. At $419 ($449 for 128GB - $30 trade in credit) or $840 for two phones, instead of dishing out about $1,100 x 2 = $2,200 for a couple of the iPhone 12's, I can wait for the 5G network to settle out. It became a no-brainer for us to upgrade from a couple of crippled iPhone 6's. This article does not consider me as the target market, neither did I, but it was an easy decision on our part. I think they will sell a tremendous amount of these phones.
Here is a case history. I have always owned an iPhone, big Apple fan. Started with the 3G, then 4, 5 and 6. My wife switched from a flip phone to the iPhone with the 6. So we have had two iPhone 6 since they were launched. Have been waiting to upgrade for a couple of years and would never consider a used or an "older" model (don't want something that is already getting obsolete). Was waiting for the 5G iPhone to launch so we could buy two of those. Plan was to keep those for several years. We were very tempted to buy the iPhone 11 this last year, but the lack of 5G stoped me from pulling the trigger. That should be a step change and I always want to buy as much new tech as possible. Just saw the iPhone SE(2) when it launched and the price versus performance caught my eye. It doesn't have the best screen, but it is good enough, it uses the latest processor so it can handle the latest camera/software tricks and is fast (our iPhone 6 can't use iOS 13), I don't really need a bigger screen, etc... So I ordered two iPhone SE(2)'s yesterday. At $419 ($449 for 128GB - $30 trade in credit) or $840 for two phones, instead of dishing out about $1,100 x 2 = $2,200 for a couple of the iPhone 12's, I can wait for the 5G network to settle out. It became a no-brainer for us to upgrade from a couple of crippled iPhone 6's. This article does not consider me as the target market, neither did I, but it was an easy decision on our part. I think they will sell a tremendous amount of these phones.
I posted about your kind of case the other day and for some of your reasons. I agree with you 100% and when you finally have 5G you will have options.
Most of the comments on Appleinsider seem favorable toward the newest iphone SE. However, I was very disappointed by what I saw. I feel like Apple abandoned many original iphone SE purchasers by making the SE bigger and heavier instead of maintaining, or at least keeping an option for, the 4" screen. They went with the big screen and a powerful processor to entice us to buy what they envisioned we needed and should have. For me, the attraction of the SE was always about the size combined with a very functional phone. The original SE fits my hand, it takes 1 hand to use, it's comfortable, it fits in my pocket or in a holster. I disagree that it was designed for "ladies with small hands." I'm a guy with ordinary hands who just wants a really good phone that does what a phone is supposed to do and includes a few nice bells and whistles, not the kitchen sink.
I have an SE as my back-up phone and my GF has one because she has small hands. They have both been excellent. The trade in is a good deal, so we'll give it six months or so to make sure that this new model doesn't have any issues and will then most likely upgrade both phones.
IMO laptops can last you ~8 years and phones ~4 years.
That, of course, would be a pipe dream in the Windoze and Android worlds. I definitely know that from my 15-year long Windoze experience from 1994-2009.
Comments
The iPhone SE 2020 confirms what we already knew about Apple's mobile strategy: Apple is no longer interested in innovating when it comes to form factor.
If Apple want to drive revenue from services they need to get iOS devices into as many hands as possible, and post-coronavirus lockdown we are about to enter the worst recession in 100 years, so an affordable, entry level iPhone that does what most people want a phone to do connected to revenue-generating services seems sensible to me. Roll on the iPhone SE 2nd gen Plus.
Christopher Hitchens wrote that "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" but I couldn't resist the bait.
But I hear you, we all have preferences of what we'd like a company like Apple to do, specifically tailored for our whims.
I did note that Apple's pricing in international currency will be unfavorable and may likely get even worse over time, but "upgrades" are not the only reason for buying a new SE. This article specifically details two groups that are not upgrades: people buying for children and enterprise deployments. But lots of people hanging on to a 6S era phone will eventually have their phone lost, broken, etc, and the SE will be an ideal replacement option for them.
What about AirPods and Apple Watch? They cost around what an iPod model once did.
There is talk of iOS 14 ending support for A8 (which would terminate SE & 6s at iOS 13). That's why HomePod appears to be shifting from iOS to software based on tvOS, enabling Apple to limit A8 support to tvOS and make A10 Fusion the new baseline chip for iOS. iPadOS has its own codebase already.
I've launched a national product myself for my own company, and it holds true for both small entrepreneurs and big multi-nationals. New products have higher costs. The most established a product is the cheaper it gets.
And it is certainly a justifiable upgrade from an almost 5-year-old model.
"iPhone SE - a lot of iPhone - for less
From 489€"
We shouldn't be denying this. The hook for potential iPhone users is its price. Everything else is secondary to that.