I, too, am concerned Google will later exploit the information gained. As far as taking personal responsibility, though, Hawley should give up his government-paid healthcare plan and go on the ACA exchange.
Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
No you didn't.
If you want an example of responsible justice then look to Iceland
Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
Madoff (technically not a CEO, but still in charge)
Being held accountable for the illegal things that you personally did while working at a company is not equivalent to being held accountable for the actions of the corporation itself. Were that the case, every time a corporation declares bankruptcy the creditors would be able to take out liens against assets of everyone who works for the company the way the are able to do so over an individual's private debts.
Welcome to small business ownership. We typically cannot get loans unless we “personally guarantee” to the bank, using our personal SSN and assets. That’s why it’s so outrageous that the mega corps pillaged they SBA relief fund last week, and there were no policies in place from the the administration to prevent it. Murchin just asked if they maybe would give it back? Pathetic.
Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
Madoff (technically not a CEO, but still in charge)
Being held accountable for the illegal things that you personally did while working at a company is not equivalent to being held accountable for the actions of the corporation itself. Were that the case, every time a corporation declares bankruptcy the creditors would be able to take out liens against assets of everyone who works for the company the way the are able to do so over an individual's private debts.
Welcome to small business ownership. We typically cannot get loans unless we “personally guarantee” to the bank, using our personal SSN and assets. That’s why it’s so outrageous that the mega corps pillaged they SBA relief fund last week, and there were no policies in place from the the administration to prevent it. Murchin just asked if they maybe would give it back? Pathetic.
This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
Google has proved time and again that they will track you by nearly any means possible. I would not be willing to give that company access to my location nearly all of the time. Contact tracing like this hasn't been necessary to stop pandemics in the past -- there certainly haven't been technological means to do it like we have with today's smartphones.
This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
Google has proved time and again that they will track you by nearly any means possible. I would not be willing to give that company access to my location nearly all of the time. Contact tracing like this hasn't been necessary to stop pandemics in the past -- there certainly haven't been technological means to do it like we have with today's smartphones.
They aren't tracking your location to begin with. It's done through Bluetooth registering beacon codes traded with others in close enough proximity, and taking place on device. Verified infections connected to an anonymous Bluetooth code are transmitted to your smartphone periodically (daily, multiple times a day?) and any matches to a number code you were in close proximity to are flagged for YOU and you alone. You can choose to ignore it if you wish, no one is coming to look for you. No names, no specific locations, not personally identifiable.
But it is understandable that you might be afraid of contact tracing. It's confusing I know, and confusing stuff can be unsettling. If you'll read more and educate yourself you might find you're less worried about it. Might.
I'm not installing any contact tracing app. No thanks. If they do something stupid and bake it into the OS, I'm switching back to a flip phone.
They won't be baking in "an app" if I understand it all correctly. They'll be updating the framework on your iPhone to allow a contact tracing app you install and opt into to work effectively.
I'm not installing any contact tracing app. No thanks. If they do something stupid and bake it into the OS, I'm switching back to a flip phone.
They won't be baking in "an app" if I understand it all correctly. They'll be updating the framework on your iPhone to allow a contact tracing app you install and opt into to work effectively.
The first version will be an app. The follow-on versions will be included in the OS.
I'm not installing any contact tracing app. No thanks. If they do something stupid and bake it into the OS, I'm switching back to a flip phone.
They won't be baking in "an app" if I understand it all correctly. They'll be updating the framework on your iPhone to allow a contact tracing app you install and opt into to work effectively.
The first version will be an app. The follow-on versions will be included in the OS.
I am all for corporate accountability and I’m all for privacy protection. The good Senator of all people is in the best position to do these things. Rather than write to CEOs of publicly owned companies asking them police themselves why doesn’t he introduce legislation that does this? Why doesn’t he do his f-ing job rather than publicity stunts and grandstanding?
Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
Madoff (technically not a CEO, but still in charge)
Being held accountable for the illegal things that you personally did while working at a company is not equivalent to being held accountable for the actions of the corporation itself. Were that the case, every time a corporation declares bankruptcy the creditors would be able to take out liens against assets of everyone who works for the company the way the are able to do so over an individual's private debts.
Welcome to small business ownership. We typically cannot get loans unless we “personally guarantee” to the bank, using our personal SSN and assets. That’s why it’s so outrageous that the mega corps pillaged they SBA relief fund last week, and there were no policies in place from the the administration to prevent it. Murchin just asked if they maybe would give it back? Pathetic.
This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
Google has proved time and again that they will track you by nearly any means possible. I would not be willing to give that company access to my location nearly all of the time. Contact tracing like this hasn't been necessary to stop pandemics in the past -- there certainly haven't been technological means to do it like we have with today's smartphones.
Just a point of reference, contact tracing absolutely has been utilized before. It has been done with people: researchers & investigators, telephones, etc. The idea of doing it in an automated fashion is the novel part.
This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
Google has proved time and again that they will track you by nearly any means possible. I would not be willing to give that company access to my location nearly all of the time. Contact tracing like this hasn't been necessary to stop pandemics in the past -- there certainly haven't been technological means to do it like we have with today's smartphones.
Are you saying that we haven't used certain technologies to deal with pandemics, like the Spanish Flu or Black Plague, in the past so we shouldn't use them now? There's nothing be afraid of.
I'm not installing any contact tracing app. No thanks. If they do something stupid and bake it into the OS, I'm switching back to a flip phone.
They won't be baking in "an app" if I understand it all correctly. They'll be updating the framework on your iPhone to allow a contact tracing app you install and opt into to work effectively.
The first version will be an app. The follow-on versions will be included in the OS.
So still no "baking in an app", initially only the API framework that supports one? Downloading the compatible app will still be voluntary. Thanks for the mention that in the coming months an app would no longer be necessary with the function added to the OS itself so no longer exactly "voluntary" but still opt-in to activate of course. Have I got that right? It wasn't aware of that before you brought it up.
"The contact tracing framework will be deployed as an update to Google Play Services on Android, and as an iOS software update for Apple devices. Apple has said it wants to make the technology available to as many people as possible, or at least every active Apple device that has the appropriate Bluetooth stack. This implies Apple will be releasing OS updates to at least iOS 13 and iOS 12.
In addition to the privacy provisions, the feature will be opt-in. The operating system will prompt users if they want to participate in contact tracing. Users will also need to download the respective public health app for their region. This app will collate the anonymous Bluetooth identifiers and can push alerts if a COVID-19 positive case is tracked nearby. Apple will not be approving any App Store app to use the contact tracing API, enforcing that there will only be one app supplied by the appropriate government health organization for each geographical region. Users will not be able to report themselves as positive without some kind of medical verification, to prevent trolling and abuse of the system."
This guy either didn't read the details of the implementation or didn't understand them (typical politician).
Apple & Google are not "tracking when and where Americans interact with each other". The API allows tracking if Americans have been close together - NOT WHERE & NOT WHEN! And this tracking history is only for the last 14 days.
The people who are asking "why did Apple partner with Google on this anyway!" ... are forgetting that less than half of all smartphone users in the US run Android. Another thing ... we have to consider "expertise" here. While Apple is great at taking their time to come out with excellent things on the hardware and UX/UI design front, the ability to rapidly come out with software and services isn't their wheelhouse. Never has been. And that is precisely what software companies like Google and before them Microsoft exploited. The idea that Apple was going to get a complex software/services initiative like this off the ground in weeks as opposed to years ... they don't have the track record. If it wasn't Google - who has a very good knowledge of iOS because they are a leading app developer on that platform as well as its default search provider - it would have had to have been Microsoft, Facebook or some other company that Apple fans would have found just as distasteful.
From the perspective of people who agree with this effort - I agree that not everyone does and their concerns are valid - this app is something that was needed on multiple platforms and hardware types yesterday (even in a clunky and imperfect form) and not refined, tuned and perfectly engineered into a single ecosystem stack two years from now. Google's wheelhouse is the former, Apple excels at the latter, and no use pretending otherwise.
Uh, no. You can get a tool out fast and critically flawed, or you can get it out slow and less flawed. Neither company has a good RECENT track record for low-flaw expediency.
Maybe "you" can get a software tool out fast and critically flawed but Apple can't. Apple doesn't do "fast" at all, and their approach to new software and services is generally to acqui-hire (see Dark Sky). The same Apple design policy and corporate culture that you love makes it impossible for them to come out with a software service like this quickly.
It's the same reason why it took Apple who-knows-how-long to get Apple Maps to competitive parity with Waze and Google Maps. Why Siri quickly fell behind Alexa, Cortana and Google Assistant despite coming out first Why Apple gave an app store to Apple TV years after Roku, Amazon, Google, Samsung and LG did the same for their smart TV platforms (despite, again, Apple TV being first) Why one can't purchase an app/song/movie etc. and initiate a download on the web for iOS/macOS the way that you can for Windows, Android/ChromeOS, Windows/XBox, Nintendo, PlaysStation, Steam, Epic Games etc. despite Apple arguably inventing the modern app store (Palm and Microsoft say they did it first) and iTunes (again) going way back to 2001.
Apple is great at a lot of things, but A) speed and innovation on the software/services front isn't one of them. If they were, Microsoft and Google combined (which they would be, because had it not been for Android saving them, Microsoft would have swallowed Google long ago) would be smaller than Google is by themselves right now.
I can't say for certain (I don't work for Apple let along this project) but it sounds like Apple used a variant of their new "Find Me" technology. So there's a good chance it was Apple sharing with Google as much as the other way around. I'm not going to go through the details here, you can look it up, but it works very similar to this contract tracing and prior to this Google had nothing like it that I'm aware of.
Comments
As far as taking personal responsibility, though, Hawley should give up his government-paid healthcare plan and go on the ACA exchange.
But it is understandable that you might be afraid of contact tracing. It's confusing I know, and confusing stuff can be unsettling. If you'll read more and educate yourself you might find you're less worried about it. Might.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/principles-contact-tracing.html
"The contact tracing framework will be deployed as an update to Google Play Services on Android, and as an iOS software update for Apple devices. Apple has said it wants to make the technology available to as many people as possible, or at least every active Apple device that has the appropriate Bluetooth stack. This implies Apple will be releasing OS updates to at least iOS 13 and iOS 12.
In addition to the privacy provisions, the feature will be opt-in. The operating system will prompt users if they want to participate in contact tracing. Users will also need to download the respective public health app for their region. This app will collate the anonymous Bluetooth identifiers and can push alerts if a COVID-19 positive case is tracked nearby. Apple will not be approving any App Store app to use the contact tracing API, enforcing that there will only be one app supplied by the appropriate government health organization for each geographical region. Users will not be able to report themselves as positive without some kind of medical verification, to prevent trolling and abuse of the system."
Apple & Google are not "tracking when and where Americans interact with each other". The API allows tracking if Americans have been close together - NOT WHERE & NOT WHEN! And this tracking history is only for the last 14 days.
Politicians...