Britain's NHS rejects the Apple & Google COVID-19 exposure notification technology

Posted:
in General Discussion
The National Health Service says it will utilize its own centralized contract-tracing system, rather than deploying the exposure notification technology being developed by Apple and Google.

The NHS says its app will run
The NHS says its app will run "sufficiently well" on iPhones without using Apple/Google's technology. (Image source: NHSX)


The National Health Service of the UK has rejected the use of Apple and Google's forthcoming contact-tracing technology, in favor of its own, national system. Unlike the Apple/Google partnership, the NHS's app will see iPhones and Android phones continually reporting to a central database maintained by the British government.

According to BBC News, the system by NHSX, the technology advisory group of the National Health Service, will work via Bluetooth. It will log when any two devices are close enough together for longer than an unspecified amount of time, and relay that information to the central database.

"Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."

In comparison, Apple and Google's technology will allow for contact tracing to take place without an app having to launch or wake. For privacy reasons, the American technology firms also plan to conduct the actual contact tracing on each individual's device, so that data is not passed back to any one company's servers.

NHSX maintains that it will be able to audit the data, and adapt the system more quickly, if details are held on its servers. "It's probably easier to do that with a centralized system," NHSX advisor Professor Christophe Fraser, told the BBC.

Reportedly, the NHSX plan has been helped by experts from GCHQ's National Cyber Security Center, although NCSC told the BBC that it has only advised on the technology.

The BBC notes that Apple and Google have supported the British team, and NHSX's own statement repeats that. "We are working with Apple and Google on their welcome support for tracing apps around the world," it says.

NHSX says that it will launch its app "in the coming weeks," while Apple and Google reportedly plan to release theirs on April 28.

Contact Tracing
Apple and Google's illustration of their contact tracing solution.


The UK is not the only country to develop its own system. Australia launched its own app on Sunday 26 April, and reports that it is being used by one million people. That's 4% of the population, and according to BBC News, it needs to reach 40% xto be effective.

Germany was previously also opposed to the Apple/Google plan, but this week has agreed to support it.

France continues to prefer its own proposed system, and has asked Apple to alter iOS's restrictions on apps running in the background, in order for its app to work properly. "[Our] privacy principles are not going to change," responded Gary Davis, Apple's global director of privacy. "They are fundamental privacy principles that are needed to make this work."

AppleInsider has reached out to the NHS for details on its technology and the effectiveness of its implementation. However, the NHS press office directed us instead to the British governmental Department of Health and Social Care. Then the DHSC referred us to NHSX directly, but emails to the address we were given bounced back with "address not found."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 83
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    No chance I'll be downloading this, then. Unless Apple has exempted the NHS, apps on the App Store cannot continually poll for BT devices in the background. 
    edited April 2020 StrangeDaysrob53jony0PetrolDave
  • Reply 2 of 83
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,879member
    According to BBC News, the system by NHSX, the technology advisory group of the National Health Service, will work via Bluetooth. It will log when any two devices are close enough together for longer than an unspecified amount of time, and relay that information to the central database.

    "Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."

    In comparison, Apple and Google's technology will allow for contact tracing to take place without an app having to launch or wake. For privacy reasons, the American technology firms also plan to conduct the actual contact tracing on each individual's device, so that data is not passed back to any one company's servers. [...]

    France continues to prefer its own proposed system, and has asked Apple to alter iOS's restrictions on apps running in the background, in order for its app to work properly. "[Our] privacy principles are not going to change," responded Gary Davis, Apple's global director of privacy. "They are fundamental privacy principles that are needed to make this work."
    "Yeaaahh. If you could just go ahead and leave the software development to software companies, that'd be greeaaat..."

    Seriously, why would these government shops think they can do privacy-protecting software better than Apple, who also happens to be the platform owner? Its solution is guaranteed to be better. Thankfully Germany has seen the light and gotten on board.
    edited April 2020 viclauyycboxcatcherchiapscooter63tmayfotoformatwilliamlondonjony0entropyssvanstrom
  • Reply 3 of 83
    FLMusicFLMusic Posts: 17member
    According to BBC News, the system by NHSX, the technology advisory group of the National Health Service, will work via Bluetooth. It will log when any two devices are close enough together for longer than an unspecified amount of time, and relay that information to the central database.

    "Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."

    In comparison, Apple and Google's technology will allow for contact tracing to take place without an app having to launch or wake. For privacy reasons, the American technology firms also plan to conduct the actual contact tracing on each individual's device, so that data is not passed back to any one company's servers. [...]

    France continues to prefer its own proposed system, and has asked Apple to alter iOS's restrictions on apps running in the background, in order for its app to work properly. "[Our] privacy principles are not going to change," responded Gary Davis, Apple's global director of privacy. "They are fundamental privacy principles that are needed to make this work."
    "Yeaaahh. If you could just go ahead and leave the software development to software companies, that'd be greeaaat..."

    Seriously, why would these government shops think they can do privacy-protecting software better than Apple, who also happens to be the platform owner? Its solution is guaranteed to be better. Thankfully Germany has seen the light and gotten on board.
    Yeah, exactly. I don't want to make this kinda bad comparison, but it's like asking the president to give us medical advice.
    rob53Beatsheadfull0wineXedfotoformatlarryjwjony0roundaboutnowpujones1StrangeDays
  • Reply 4 of 83
    Not only is this delaying a solution from being distributed which we urgently need but it will again cost tax payer money. Seems like Apple is trying to prevent users from experiencing potential breaches of privacy versus an NHS who would like to gain access to a fully centralized database for their own use...
    jony0StrangeDaysGabyPetrolDaveFLMusic
  • Reply 5 of 83
    viclauyycviclauyyc Posts: 849member
    Virus is without borders. When someone goes to other countries, the local government app will not work. That is why it is so important to have a global platform.

    just look at China, each city/province has its own app. People is perfectly fine in a province suddenly can’t go to other provinces.  

    China is a good example of what don’t work and fail. Don’t act like China. 
    williamlondonalaincbjony0StrangeDaysmrakoplassvanstromPetrolDaveFLMusic
  • Reply 6 of 83
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    This was always their option. Apple and Google had their system that protected user privacy. If you don’t want to do that build your own. 
  • Reply 7 of 83
    Insane

    This reminds me of States rolling their own digital drivers license apps or that crappy MCX QR code payment system joke that retailers tried to build.

    For the love of God, if it needs to be standardized, please work with the two companies that control 99.99% of smartphone OSes in the western world.
    edited April 2020 jony0mrakoplasPetrolDaveFLMusic
  • Reply 8 of 83
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    This is gonna be a sh**show. Should have been an Apple exclusive even considering the drawbacks. And when Google gets caught data mining the headlines will read "Apple's tracking software storing your personal data".


    FLMusic said:
    According to BBC News, the system by NHSX, the technology advisory group of the National Health Service, will work via Bluetooth. It will log when any two devices are close enough together for longer than an unspecified amount of time, and relay that information to the central database.

    "Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."

    In comparison, Apple and Google's technology will allow for contact tracing to take place without an app having to launch or wake. For privacy reasons, the American technology firms also plan to conduct the actual contact tracing on each individual's device, so that data is not passed back to any one company's servers. [...]

    France continues to prefer its own proposed system, and has asked Apple to alter iOS's restrictions on apps running in the background, in order for its app to work properly. "[Our] privacy principles are not going to change," responded Gary Davis, Apple's global director of privacy. "They are fundamental privacy principles that are needed to make this work."
    "Yeaaahh. If you could just go ahead and leave the software development to software companies, that'd be greeaaat..."

    Seriously, why would these government shops think they can do privacy-protecting software better than Apple, who also happens to be the platform owner? Its solution is guaranteed to be better. Thankfully Germany has seen the light and gotten on board.
    Yeah, exactly. I don't want to make this kinda bad comparison, but it's like asking the president to give us medical advice.

    Politics think they're above everyone else in every category.
    jony0
  • Reply 9 of 83
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    elijahg said:
    No chance I'll be downloading this, then. Unless Apple has exempted the NHS, apps on the App Store cannot continually poll for BT devices in the background. 
    You can presume that the British version will require users to supply their name, age range, phone number, and postcode. Perhaps that still won't prevent the roughly 40% acceptance rate needed for the effort to be truly effective.  In any event neither Google nor Apple will be playing up scare tactics to deter people from downloading it. We're all in this together, and frightening people away won't help anyone. 
    edited April 2020 tmayelijahgGG1
  • Reply 10 of 83
    hmlongcohmlongco Posts: 537member
    "NHSX maintains that it will be able to audit the data, and adapt the system more quickly, if details are held on its servers. "It's probably easier to do that with a centralized system," NHSX advisor Professor Christophe Fraser, told the BBC."

    Probably the key point. There's a treasure trove of data there, and when it's uploaded to their servers the government will be able to mine it to their heart's content....
    DAalsethwilliamlondonjony0GG1Rayz2016PetrolDave
  • Reply 11 of 83
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    This is the same country that is burning down 5G towers because they spread Coronavirus.
    DAalsethteejay2012GG1pujones1
  • Reply 12 of 83
    lewchenkolewchenko Posts: 122member
    The U.K. is an embarrassment so far in its response to Covid-19.  
    Add this to the list. Every decision whether it was access to tests/lockdown/borders/protective equipment etc ... too little and very late. 


    We needed that app weeks ago here in the U.K. in combination with a viable and frequent test service. 

    Our economy is ruined , & thousands of unnecessary deaths which could have been prevented. The general public here still can’t get access to tests unless carted off to hospital. It’s a disgrace. 

    There is a reason countries like New Zealand did so well. 

    All I can say is whilst the U.K. is terrible it looks like there are plenty of countries making equally bad decisions. 
    tmayPetrolDave
  • Reply 13 of 83
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    lewchenko said:
    The U.K. is an embarrassment so far in its response to Covid-19.  
    Add this to the list. Every decision whether it was access to tests/lockdown/borders/protective equipment etc ... too little and very late. 


    We needed that app weeks ago here in the U.K. in combination with a viable and frequent test service. 

    Our economy is ruined , & thousands of unnecessary deaths which could have been prevented. The general public here still can’t get access to tests unless carted off to hospital. It’s a disgrace. 

    There is a reason countries like New Zealand did so well. 

    All I can say is whilst the U.K. is terrible it looks like there are plenty of countries making equally bad decisions. 
    Would apply equally well to the US
    tmayXedStrangeDays
  • Reply 14 of 83
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Yeah, not a fan of this decision.  I'll support the NHS til the day I die, but the UK government has had some pretty stupid lapses in data security and poor history in major IT projects, due in part to their reliance on IT contractors where they take the lowest bidder and then can't control the scope.
    elijahgstompyPetrolDaveFLMusic
  • Reply 15 of 83
    sergiozsergioz Posts: 338member
    France is evil, Britain app is simple but keeps data on their servers and Germans are smart and understand that what Apple and Google cooking is way better then any other government capable of providing. I am hoping that Europe won’t brainwash their people against US made app, ahh shit who am I kidding of course they will EU hates us haha.
  • Reply 16 of 83
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Apple and Google should just cancel this whole thing. Let the Europeans figure this out on their own. In this day and age no one trusts governments or corporations to maintain privacy rights.
    BeatsPetrolDaveFLMusic
  • Reply 17 of 83
    According to BBC News, the system by NHSX, the technology advisory group of the National Health Service, will work via Bluetooth. It will log when any two devices are close enough together for longer than an unspecified amount of time, and relay that information to the central database.

    "Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."

    In comparison, Apple and Google's technology will allow for contact tracing to take place without an app having to launch or wake. For privacy reasons, the American technology firms also plan to conduct the actual contact tracing on each individual's device, so that data is not passed back to any one company's servers. [...]

    France continues to prefer its own proposed system, and has asked Apple to alter iOS's restrictions on apps running in the background, in order for its app to work properly. "[Our] privacy principles are not going to change," responded Gary Davis, Apple's global director of privacy. "They are fundamental privacy principles that are needed to make this work."
    "Yeaaahh. If you could just go ahead and leave the software development to software companies, that'd be greeaaat..."

    Seriously, why would these government shops think they can do privacy-protecting software better than Apple, who also happens to be the platform owner? Its solution is guaranteed to be better. Thankfully Germany has seen the light and gotten on board.
    They can’t do privacy better. That’s the point. The fearful public will elect for this thinking, ignorantly, that the government has their best interest at heart and then when a new party or people are in charge that wish to expand its use for more nefarious motives, they will. This virus is the perfect opening all governments have been waiting for to infringe in our rights. Not that the British or other Europeans really ever had rights, but you get the point. 

    It’s kind of the same thing when we passed the Patriot Act after 9/11. Everyone was fearful and wanted something done. All that got us was spying on Americans under Bush and expanded on under Obama. If people think that won’t happen here, then they’re fools. 
    PetrolDave
  • Reply 18 of 83
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    I will be interesting to see what Apple/Google comes up with. Just have to wait until April 28. 

    Will it really be useful? I'd certainly like to know, not necessarily the person who tested positive, but the location where I potential was exposed. Grocery store, hardware store, out walking, the bike path, gas station? 

    PS: If you want privacy, don't use cell phones. Bluetooth is perfect for tracking. 

    A couple years ago, bluetooth sensors were installed allow transportation corridors to track vehicle traffic, reading signals from Bluetooth devices, so transportation planners could "see" traffic patterns, where people entered the corridor, where they exited the corridor, average speeds, etc. 


  • Reply 19 of 83
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,124member
    elijahg said:
    No chance I'll be downloading this, then. Unless Apple has exempted the NHS, apps on the App Store cannot continually poll for BT devices in the background. 
    There is no App Store guideline that prohibits this, so NHS does not need to be "exempted."


  • Reply 20 of 83
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,371member
    Mind the gap...
    StrangeDays
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