Probably nothing to do with the fact that Apple "deprecated" OpenGL and Vulcan while forcibly preventing NVIDIA from releasing compatible Mac drivers.
Conjecture and rumor. No one on this forum knows what’s up between Apple and Nvidia for certain.
Since Nvidia have publicly stated they're waiting on Apple to sign the drivers, there's not much conjecture.
Share the link, son. Also share the link from Apple's perspective if they have any grievances with Nvidia that we are completely ignorant about. Because we are, no matter what your Nvidia fanboy black & white views of the world may be.
Yes of course daddy, reporting facts make me a fanboy. Tone down your aggressive rhetoric and you might find you get on better in life. Here's another fact: Windows has a bigger marketshare than macOS. Does that make me a Windows fanboy? Also, might want to replace "we are" in "that we are completely ignorant about" to "i am".
elijahg said: True, but then Apple Arcade has what, 120 games - almost all of which are just blown up mobile-quality kid's games without ads, with the odd exception, whereas Steam has many thousands of full-featured titles. Seems the popular Apple Arcade games don't ever get meaningful updates either.
The "thousands" of games for PC-centric Steam are a mirage for macOS. Most of the ports would never materialize, regardless of what GPUs Apple put into their hardware. Focusing on original content is a better strategy, and although people can shrug it off as simply "mobile kids games" now, will that be possible in the future? Apple Arcade has plenty of room to grow and the variety of hardware that ANY game from the service can be played on is pretty unique in gaming.
Well not really. The macOS section of Steam has 11,268 results for games and software. Many of those are mobile style games, but many are really brilliant, immersive titles with excellent soundtracks, graphics and story. I am yet to see something that comes anywhere near the production value of many of the Steam games on Apple Arcade. Don't get me wrong - some of the Apple Arcade games are really good, What the Golf for example is great fun. But again, it's just good a mobile game without ads.
I agree it has got room to grow. I remember when Infinity Blade was out on the very first iPad, being stunned by the graphics and audio, and being so excited about what this could mean for mobile games. But only a couple of titles lived up to the level set by Infinity Blade. I was hoping AA would get more immersive games as it went on, but 7 months later there are what, 20 more games? A few of which are really good, but just not even comparable to ones on Steam. If you can point me to a game on AA that has similar production quality of the better Steam games, I'm all ears.
Probably nothing to do with the fact that Apple "deprecated" OpenGL and Vulcan while forcibly preventing NVIDIA from releasing compatible Mac drivers.
Conjecture and rumor. No one on this forum knows what’s up between Apple and Nvidia for certain.
Since Nvidia have publicly stated they're waiting on Apple to sign the drivers, there's not much conjecture. Apple isn't perfect, but wo betide any Apple supplier that doesn't lick the ground Apple management walks on or they'll unceremoniously get the boot. Yet another example of Apple putting its internal politics above their customers. I have a 2019 iMac with a Vega Pro 48. It gets smoked by the much older Radeon 1080Ti. But due to Apple's ridiculous spat with Nvidia, we're all stuck on crap AMD cards.
Eventually Apple will fall out with AMD as they have done in the past, then go cap in hand to Nvidia for a GPU. Or do as they did during the last big spat 7 or 8 years ago and have Intel integrated everywhere. That was wonderful.
It wasn't exactly a ridiculous spat. Apple's beef with Nvidia goes back to the time that Macs were using Nvidia GPU's and the machines were overheating and becoming damaged from a direct result of lousy Nvidia GPU's. That's why Apple transitioned away from them and never looked back. My hunch says Apple will do the same to Intel with the rumored transition to ARM Macs.
It wasn't really Nvidia's fault, though. The heat generated inside MacBooks (which aren't exactly known for running cool) was exacerbating the issue, but the core problem was actually cracked lead-free solder joints. At the time there were thousands and thousands of devices ending up in landfill because of bad solder joints. No one know it was going to be an issue, Nvidia sold Apple those GPUs under good faith that they would be reliable. There was nothing Nvidia did to reduce the reliability of those GPUs. The people to really blame for that particular issue were the EU, their eco-policy of lead-free solder actually increased the number of items going to landfill many times over. And in any case, Nvidia compensated Apple for their losses.
Apple fell out with ATI a few years before, they leaked a new PowerBook, and Apple avoided ATI chips for years afterwards. It's ridiculously petty.
That's not petty. They knew not to leak products and allowing people to get away with crap let's others know they can do the same.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
Probably nothing to do with the fact that Apple "deprecated" OpenGL and Vulcan while forcibly preventing NVIDIA from releasing compatible Mac drivers.
Conjecture and rumor. No one on this forum knows what’s up between Apple and Nvidia for certain.
Since Nvidia have publicly stated they're waiting on Apple to sign the drivers, there's not much conjecture. Apple isn't perfect, but wo betide any Apple supplier that doesn't lick the ground Apple management walks on or they'll unceremoniously get the boot. Yet another example of Apple putting its internal politics above their customers. I have a 2019 iMac with a Vega Pro 48. It gets smoked by the much older Radeon 1080Ti. But due to Apple's ridiculous spat with Nvidia, we're all stuck on crap AMD cards.
Eventually Apple will fall out with AMD as they have done in the past, then go cap in hand to Nvidia for a GPU. Or do as they did during the last big spat 7 or 8 years ago and have Intel integrated everywhere. That was wonderful.
It wasn't exactly a ridiculous spat. Apple's beef with Nvidia goes back to the time that Macs were using Nvidia GPU's and the machines were overheating and becoming damaged from a direct result of lousy Nvidia GPU's. That's why Apple transitioned away from them and never looked back. My hunch says Apple will do the same to Intel with the rumored transition to ARM Macs.
It wasn't really Nvidia's fault, though. The heat generated inside MacBooks (which aren't exactly known for running cool) was exacerbating the issue, but the core problem was actually cracked lead-free solder joints. At the time there were thousands and thousands of devices ending up in landfill because of bad solder joints. No one know it was going to be an issue, Nvidia sold Apple those GPUs under good faith that they would be reliable. There was nothing Nvidia did to reduce the reliability of those GPUs. The people to really blame for that particular issue were the EU, their eco-policy of lead-free solder actually increased the number of items going to landfill many times over. And in any case, Nvidia compensated Apple for their losses.
Apple fell out with ATI a few years before, they leaked a new PowerBook, and Apple avoided ATI chips for years afterwards. It's ridiculously petty.
That's not petty. They knew not to leak products and allowing people to get away with crap let's others know they can do the same.
Avoiding a particular vendor to punish them only punishes your users, if that vendor's products are the best. ATI shouldn't have leaked the PB, but a multi-year long spat afterwards is what's petty.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
Apple is getting really good at announcing things and not following through. It's partly why businesses don't use Apple anymore - there is no predictability. Why would anyone invest in the MP with the future upgrade path uncertain? Even investing in software compiled for Intel is in doubt right now, as Apple might or might not switch to ARM one day. The secrecy was great for building hype back in the days of yore, but since we know pretty much exactly what the product is going to be months before release nowadays it only hampers their success in a business setting.
But yes loss of OpenGL is my main concern with this. I doubt they'll remove it in 10.16, but it may end up deprecated. If they do remove it, I really have no choice but to switch to Windows. And if I do, I'll probably end up with an Android phone and watch instead, and eventually a PC rather than my current iMac. It'll be a shame as I've been an Apple fan since my first 20mhz (!) Performa 475 in 1996, and converted many many people to Apple, but the changes for the sake of change are really getting tiring and overly restrictive now.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
... but it may end up deprecated.
It IS deprecated as of macOS 10.14.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
... but it may end up deprecated.
It IS deprecated as of macOS 10.14.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
Oh I didn't realise it was deprecated already. That's complete madness. As you say above if they remove it then a huge numbers of programs will just stop working. Totally crazy with no foresight of (or ignorance to) the consequences.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
... but it may end up deprecated.
It IS deprecated as of macOS 10.14.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
Oh I didn't realise it was deprecated already. That's complete madness. As you say above if they remove it then a huge numbers of programs will just stop working. Totally crazy with no foresight to (or ignorance of) the consequences.
It is going to be massacre.
Here are a few 3D content type titles I happen to use: Blender - have said they are not going to port to Metal. DAZ Studio - I can't see they will write a Metal version given the already half hearted macOS support they currently have. Substance Painter - maybe, but perhaps just maybe given they now are owned by Adobe. Talking about Adobe; don't get me started.
I know of a single person macOS developer for Cheetah 3D who has a really hard struggle porting his application to Metal.
The SecondLife/OpenSim viewers where the developer has not even started on a Metal rewrite for a renderer that is completely proprietary, complex and tuned for dynamic content which Metal does not work particularly good at, as it gains the speed from optimized content known at compile time. The SecondLife/OpenSim content is thrown at therenderer in realtime by users and it not really optimized for anything at all so Metal will struggle (most likely more than OpenGL does is the estimation).
I've said this before, but all this closed source incompatibility is chillingly reminiscent of Apple of the mid-90's and Microsoft in the late 90's and into the Ballmer years. Since Sat Nad has taken over, MS have had a much more open approach and they are being lauded for it, with respect for MS steadily increasing. Apple on the other hand is going backwards compared to the huge amount of open-sourcing and increased compatibility after Jobs' return in the early years of OS X, causing respect to decrease. It really is quite concerning.
Jobs as champion of open systems? Interesting way to rewrite history.
Sorry but no, while Apple has at times leveraged and contributed to open source projects, it has never been about open systems. The very nature of Mac and the ecosystem is a walled garden. That hasn’t changed.
Considering he open sourced pretty much all the APIs on NextStep to become OpenStep, looks like you might need to gen up on your history a bit. Oh and what about Webkit? What about Bonjour? What about CUPS? Swift? IOKit? What about contributions to Apache? To OpenSSL? To Autoconf? To Samba? To X11? LLVM? BSD? Clang? OpenGL? Might as well get your head out of Apple's ass at the same time. Walled garden doesn't mean you have to use incompatible standards and APIs. Look where that got Apple in the 90's.
Correct. And anyway the Mac isn't a walled garden. You can literally download apps from anywhere, compile any unix compatible program, make is a server, and so on. Its as open as any unix system.
I didn't claim it was, Strangedays did.
I didnt say you did. Hence I started with Correct. I was adding to your criticism of what Strangedays said, and that was the one thing you didnt rebut.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
... but it may end up deprecated.
It IS deprecated as of macOS 10.14.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
I am fairly dubious about this. There are, as in every company, many factions in Apple. Using metal only is probably something driven by the engineering teams. If it harms games development in the future I can see OpenGL being un-deprecated, or if that is too much of a concession, staying "deprecated" for ever. Apple is clearly wanting to do something in the AR, and VR space as well.
I've said this before, but all this closed source incompatibility is chillingly reminiscent of Apple of the mid-90's and Microsoft in the late 90's and into the Ballmer years. Since Sat Nad has taken over, MS have had a much more open approach and they are being lauded for it, with respect for MS steadily increasing. Apple on the other hand is going backwards compared to the huge amount of open-sourcing and increased compatibility after Jobs' return in the early years of OS X, causing respect to decrease. It really is quite concerning.
Jobs as champion of open systems? Interesting way to rewrite history.
Sorry but no, while Apple has at times leveraged and contributed to open source projects, it has never been about open systems. The very nature of Mac and the ecosystem is a walled garden. That hasn’t changed.
Considering he open sourced pretty much all the APIs on NextStep to become OpenStep, looks like you might need to gen up on your history a bit. Oh and what about Webkit? What about Bonjour? What about CUPS? Swift? IOKit? What about contributions to Apache? To OpenSSL? To Autoconf? To Samba? To X11? LLVM? BSD? Clang? OpenGL? Might as well get your head out of Apple's ass at the same time. Walled garden doesn't mean you have to use incompatible standards and APIs. Look where that got Apple in the 90's.
Correct. And anyway the Mac isn't a walled garden. You can literally download apps from anywhere, compile any unix compatible program, make is a server, and so on. Its as open as any unix system.
I didn't claim it was, Strangedays did.
I said Apple was not about open systems, especially in its walled garden ecosystem. Maybe you don't remember the years of proprietary hardware & software under the Jobs-era that set the Macintosh apart from "PC-compatibles"? In recent times it has long been the idealogical debate that Google was open, Apple is closed, and that "open always wins!"
But your claim was about Jobs. And the notion that Jobs was all about open systems and now Cook isn't is disconnected from reality. You've rewritten history. Under Jobs, Apple spearheaded a walled garden (closed) approach, and while yes as I said modern Macs utilize some open projects, the majority of its strategy and earnings comes from a closed walled garden approach to consumer computing. This is irrefutable. Jobs was no champion of open systems, and arguably more than anyone was responsible for making its most successful computing line, iOS devices, closed.
I've said this before, but all this closed source incompatibility is chillingly reminiscent of Apple of the mid-90's and Microsoft in the late 90's and into the Ballmer years. Since Sat Nad has taken over, MS have had a much more open approach and they are being lauded for it, with respect for MS steadily increasing. Apple on the other hand is going backwards compared to the huge amount of open-sourcing and increased compatibility after Jobs' return in the early years of OS X, causing respect to decrease. It really is quite concerning.
Jobs as champion of open systems? Interesting way to rewrite history.
Sorry but no, while Apple has at times leveraged and contributed to open source projects, it has never been about open systems. The very nature of Mac and the ecosystem is a walled garden. That hasn’t changed.
Considering he open sourced pretty much all the APIs on NextStep to become OpenStep, looks like you might need to gen up on your history a bit. Oh and what about Webkit? What about Bonjour? What about CUPS? Swift? IOKit? What about contributions to Apache? To OpenSSL? To Autoconf? To Samba? To X11? LLVM? BSD? Clang? OpenGL? Might as well get your head out of Apple's ass at the same time. Walled garden doesn't mean you have to use incompatible standards and APIs. Look where that got Apple in the 90's.
Perhaps you had trouble reading my post. Apple has "leveraged and contributed to open source projects", but has never been about the purist ideology behind "but open!"
Also, you sound like a complete dumbshit when you claim my head is up Apple's ass. What are you, 13? Get a job and stop your butthurt whining.
Where did I claim Apple had been about a purist ideology? There's a huge difference between purist open-source software and open standards for compatibility. My point was Apple's products became more compatible when Jobs returned compared to before. Both at the hardware level and software. Remember ADB? Remember SCSI? Those and many other old technologies went with the iMac, and so Macs gradually became more compatible with the wider world.
My obsessive friend, the only "dumbshit" here is you who is well known for defending Apple down to every last possible decision. Every time anyone has a problem you've never seen it so it must be something they're doing. You've never ever had any issue with Apple gear ever, apparently. Your words aren't worth the bits they're sent by because you're as much a troll as the Android fanatics who frequent this forum. You don't discuss, you just attack people you don't agree with like an angry wasp. If Apple removed every feature of the Mac and replaced it with a $2999 box adorned with a single flashing LED you'd say it was wonderful and everyone else was a "hater". Grow up and get some perspective. Apple isn't going to go bust because you didn't defend something.
Incorrect. If you read my post history you will see plenty of complaints about things I don't like. Just this week I was complaining about Siri on my Watch. Oops.
I don't attack people, I attack small-minded, stupid ideas. Yours often seem to qualify.
Probably nothing to do with the fact that Apple "deprecated" OpenGL and Vulcan while forcibly preventing NVIDIA from releasing compatible Mac drivers.
Conjecture and rumor. No one on this forum knows what’s up between Apple and Nvidia for certain.
Since Nvidia have publicly stated they're waiting on Apple to sign the drivers, there's not much conjecture.
Share the link, son. Also share the link from Apple's perspective if they have any grievances with Nvidia that we are completely ignorant about. Because we are, no matter what your Nvidia fanboy black & white views of the world may be.
Yes of course daddy, reporting facts make me a fanboy. Tone down your aggressive rhetoric and you might find you get on better in life. Here's another fact: Windows has a bigger marketshare than macOS. Does that make me a Windows fanboy? Also, might want to replace "we are" in "that we are completely ignorant about" to "i am".
I've said this before, but all this closed source incompatibility is chillingly reminiscent of Apple of the mid-90's and Microsoft in the late 90's and into the Ballmer years. Since Sat Nad has taken over, MS have had a much more open approach and they are being lauded for it, with respect for MS steadily increasing. Apple on the other hand is going backwards compared to the huge amount of open-sourcing and increased compatibility after Jobs' return in the early years of OS X, causing respect to decrease. It really is quite concerning.
Jobs as champion of open systems? Interesting way to rewrite history.
Sorry but no, while Apple has at times leveraged and contributed to open source projects, it has never been about open systems. The very nature of Mac and the ecosystem is a walled garden. That hasn’t changed.
Considering he open sourced pretty much all the APIs on NextStep to become OpenStep, looks like you might need to gen up on your history a bit. Oh and what about Webkit? What about Bonjour? What about CUPS? Swift? IOKit? What about contributions to Apache? To OpenSSL? To Autoconf? To Samba? To X11? LLVM? BSD? Clang? OpenGL? Might as well get your head out of Apple's ass at the same time. Walled garden doesn't mean you have to use incompatible standards and APIs. Look where that got Apple in the 90's.
Correct. And anyway the Mac isn't a walled garden. You can literally download apps from anywhere, compile any unix compatible program, make is a server, and so on. Its as open as any unix system.
I didn't claim it was, Strangedays did.
I said Mac and the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden. Maybe you don't remember the years of proprietary hardware & software under the Jobs-era that set the Macintosh apart from "PC-compatibles"?
The notion that Jobs was all about open systems and now Cook isn't is disconnected from reality.
OS X isn't walled at all, what do you mean by that? Most Mac hardware is off the shelves as well. It's all quite different from the OS 9 days and before.
I've said this before, but all this closed source incompatibility is chillingly reminiscent of Apple of the mid-90's and Microsoft in the late 90's and into the Ballmer years. Since Sat Nad has taken over, MS have had a much more open approach and they are being lauded for it, with respect for MS steadily increasing. Apple on the other hand is going backwards compared to the huge amount of open-sourcing and increased compatibility after Jobs' return in the early years of OS X, causing respect to decrease. It really is quite concerning.
Jobs as champion of open systems? Interesting way to rewrite history.
Sorry but no, while Apple has at times leveraged and contributed to open source projects, it has never been about open systems. The very nature of Mac and the ecosystem is a walled garden. That hasn’t changed.
Considering he open sourced pretty much all the APIs on NextStep to become OpenStep, looks like you might need to gen up on your history a bit. Oh and what about Webkit? What about Bonjour? What about CUPS? Swift? IOKit? What about contributions to Apache? To OpenSSL? To Autoconf? To Samba? To X11? LLVM? BSD? Clang? OpenGL? Might as well get your head out of Apple's ass at the same time. Walled garden doesn't mean you have to use incompatible standards and APIs. Look where that got Apple in the 90's.
Correct. And anyway the Mac isn't a walled garden. You can literally download apps from anywhere, compile any unix compatible program, make is a server, and so on. Its as open as any unix system.
I didn't claim it was, Strangedays did.
I said Mac and the Apple ecosystem is a walled garden. Maybe you don't remember the years of proprietary hardware & software under the Jobs-era that set the Macintosh apart from "PC-compatibles"?
The notion that Jobs was all about open systems and now Cook isn't is disconnected from reality.
OS X isn't walled at all, what do you mean by that? Most Mac hardware is off the shelves as well. It's all quite different from the OS 9 days and before.
First of all Mac predates OS X. Remember, his claim was Jobs embraced open while Cook doesn’t. This is untrue, and looking back throughout the entire history of Mac make that clear. While Jobs-era OS X utilized open projects, it also embarked on its largest closed endeavors ever. Clearly then, Jobs-era utilization of open projects wasn’t some sort of spiritual ideology, it was a means to an end.
The Apple ecosystem, which Mac is one part of, is famously a walled garden. More so in iOS to be sure, but open/closes is a spectrum. Apple has managed tight control over Mac since Macintosh, but it remains on the spectrum even today, with Linux on one side and iOS on the other. Compared to a fully open platform like Linux, macOS remains 50% closed as a platform:
Also: VR is almost a nothing and nowhere product. Only hardcore (and money-comfy) gamers are buying it, it’s not remotely ubiquitous in the world of gaming, it’s expensive, it’s immature and clunky tech... Hard core gamers aren’t usually Mac owners. That’s usually the Mac-hater crowd.
The rewrite to Metal for cross platform developers is non trivial because the Metal libraries only work with Objective-C or Swift, neither of which are used (if at all) outside dedicated macOS or iOS development. (Yes, IBM has done some work on server side Swift).
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
... but it may end up deprecated.
It IS deprecated as of macOS 10.14.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
I am fairly dubious about this. There are, as in every company, many factions in Apple. Using metal only is probably something driven by the engineering teams. If it harms games development in the future I can see OpenGL being un-deprecated, or if that is too much of a concession, staying "deprecated" for ever. Apple is clearly wanting to do something in the AR, and VR space as well.
We shall see what emerges at WWVDC. If they were to un-deprecate it, there is a lot of work needed to bring the Apple implementation up to speed with the versions used by most game and software developers. Otherwise it would be somewhat pointless.
OTOH, OpenGL is pretty much (completely) dead on iOS and if the goal is to make it easier to develop once and deploy to both iOS and macOS, Metal is what it will be.
Comments
https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/nvidia-apple-driver-support
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1043070/announcements/faq-about-macos-10-14-mojave-nvidia-drivers/
https://appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/01/apple_may_drop_nvidia_chips_in_macs_following_contract_fight
https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/18/apples-management-doesnt-want-nvidia-support-in-macos-and-thats-a-bad-sign-for-the-mac-pro
Well not really. The macOS section of Steam has 11,268 results for games and software. Many of those are mobile style games, but many are really brilliant, immersive titles with excellent soundtracks, graphics and story. I am yet to see something that comes anywhere near the production value of many of the Steam games on Apple Arcade. Don't get me wrong - some of the Apple Arcade games are really good, What the Golf for example is great fun. But again, it's just good a mobile game without ads.
I agree it has got room to grow. I remember when Infinity Blade was out on the very first iPad, being stunned by the graphics and audio, and being so excited about what this could mean for mobile games. But only a couple of titles lived up to the level set by Infinity Blade. I was hoping AA would get more immersive games as it went on, but 7 months later there are what, 20 more games? A few of which are really good, but just not even comparable to ones on Steam. If you can point me to a game on AA that has similar production quality of the better Steam games, I'm all ears.
That's not petty. They knew not to leak products and allowing people to get away with crap let's others know they can do the same.
In addition, apart from the VR announcement at WWDC 2018, Apple has gone completely silent on the subject.
Loss of OpenGL, and the lack of a replacement that can work cross platform, will rob the macOS users of a large number of software titles once OpenGL is gone from the platform (macOS 10.16 speculative).
Apple is getting really good at announcing things and not following through. It's partly why businesses don't use Apple anymore - there is no predictability. Why would anyone invest in the MP with the future upgrade path uncertain? Even investing in software compiled for Intel is in doubt right now, as Apple might or might not switch to ARM one day. The secrecy was great for building hype back in the days of yore, but since we know pretty much exactly what the product is going to be months before release nowadays it only hampers their success in a business setting.
But yes loss of OpenGL is my main concern with this. I doubt they'll remove it in 10.16, but it may end up deprecated. If they do remove it, I really have no choice but to switch to Windows. And if I do, I'll probably end up with an Android phone and watch instead, and eventually a PC rather than my current iMac. It'll be a shame as I've been an Apple fan since my first 20mhz (!) Performa 475 in 1996, and converted many many people to Apple, but the changes for the sake of change are really getting tiring and overly restrictive now.
If they announce an ARM Mac, there is not a snowball's chance in hell they will have OpenGL support on their own GPUs. (...or use anyone else's GPU for that sake).
Here are a few 3D content type titles I happen to use: Blender - have said they are not going to port to Metal. DAZ Studio - I can't see they will write a Metal version given the already half hearted macOS support they currently have. Substance Painter - maybe, but perhaps just maybe given they now are owned by Adobe. Talking about Adobe; don't get me started.
I know of a single person macOS developer for Cheetah 3D who has a really hard struggle porting his application to Metal.
The SecondLife/OpenSim viewers where the developer has not even started on a Metal rewrite for a renderer that is completely proprietary, complex and tuned for dynamic content which Metal does not work particularly good at, as it gains the speed from optimized content known at compile time. The SecondLife/OpenSim content is thrown at the renderer in realtime by users and it not really optimized for anything at all so Metal will struggle (most likely more than OpenGL does is the estimation).
But your claim was about Jobs. And the notion that Jobs was all about open systems and now Cook isn't is disconnected from reality. You've rewritten history. Under Jobs, Apple spearheaded a walled garden (closed) approach, and while yes as I said modern Macs utilize some open projects, the majority of its strategy and earnings comes from a closed walled garden approach to consumer computing. This is irrefutable. Jobs was no champion of open systems, and arguably more than anyone was responsible for making its most successful computing line, iOS devices, closed.
Incorrect. If you read my post history you will see plenty of complaints about things I don't like. Just this week I was complaining about Siri on my Watch. Oops.
I don't attack people, I attack small-minded, stupid ideas. Yours often seem to qualify.
"Reportedly this all stems from a deep down hatred..."
"One developer went so far as to call it 'quiet hostility'..."
"The impression we got is that it was some kind of passed-down knowledge with the origin of the policy lost to the mists of time..."
...like I said, conjecture and rumor. And like I said, nobody on this forum knows what's up between two massive tech corporations for certain.
But please, if you have some facts from Apple management, do share.
The Apple ecosystem, which Mac is one part of, is famously a walled garden. More so in iOS to be sure, but open/closes is a spectrum. Apple has managed tight control over Mac since Macintosh, but it remains on the spectrum even today, with Linux on one side and iOS on the other. Compared to a fully open platform like Linux, macOS remains 50% closed as a platform:
...it’s not a binary matter or it being entirely open, or entirely closed.
OTOH, OpenGL is pretty much (completely) dead on iOS and if the goal is to make it easier to develop once and deploy to both iOS and macOS, Metal is what it will be.