I never owned a butterfly keyboard, but I wasn’t a fan of the times I tried one. Then again keyboards are highly personal. There are people who swear by loud mechanical keyboards, while others will swear by whatever keyboard they feel good with.
Beyond the typing experience and the apparent failure rate, I feel that what hurt the most was the cost to fix the keyboard out of warranty. From what I understand, because of the way the keyboard was attached to the frame it made it very difficult to just fix the specific problem, without replacing the whole upper frame.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
We didn't miss the main point, and your analogy applies to the 2012 through 2015 as well. An upper case replacement on the 2012 through 2015 was $649.
Mike, with all do respect, that's absurd. Individual keys on the "retina unibody" models could be replaced for $10 a pop, and that's where the vast majority of failures of any keyboard take place. PCBs can usually survive even moderate liquid damage as long as the computer gets shut down quickly.
I work at a company with > 40-50k employees, where at least 90%+ have MacBook Pros, and the keyboard noise problem on the butterfly mechanism was a significant problem. Although I occasionally have seen issues with grit under keys (not good, but I never have had significant failures of the keyboard itself), the noise of typing on it still bugs the heck out of me and bothered legions of other users at my company as well. I love using my old external Bluetooth magic keyboards at home now instead of the laptop keyboard for this very reason.
So although you might say that users didn’t complain much about the noise, I think they did but perhaps it didn’t rise to the level of the complaints for the failure rates for the butterfly mechanisms. Anyway, I’m really glad to see this generation retired due to the keyboard typing noise issue.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
We didn't miss the main point, and your analogy applies to the 2012 through 2015 as well. An upper case replacement on the 2012 through 2015 was $649.
Mike, with all do respect, that's absurd. Individual keys on the "retina unibody" models could be replaced for $10 a pop, and that's where the vast majority of failures of any keyboard take place. PCBs can usually survive even moderate liquid damage as long as the computer gets shut down quickly.
You and I are talking about different things, and I'm not sure where the PCB discussion comes in here. An upper case replacement does not include the motherboard.
Keycaps on the 2016-2019 can be replaced in similar fashion as well, and a previous commenter addressed this as well.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
We didn't miss the main point, and your analogy applies to the 2012 through 2015 as well. An upper case replacement on the 2012 through 2015 was $649.
Mike, with all do respect, that's absurd. Individual keys on the "retina unibody" models could be replaced for $10 a pop, and that's where the vast majority of failures of any keyboard take place. PCBs can usually survive even moderate liquid damage as long as the computer gets shut down quickly.
You and I are talking about different things, and I'm not sure where the PCB discussion comes in here. An upper case replacement does not include the motherboard.
Keycaps on the 2016-2019 can be replaced in similar fashion as well, and a previous commenter addressed this as well.
By "PCB" I meant the circuit board of keyboard itself. Alright, I'll try again…
Rain22's analogy is spot on. The failure of a single key resulting in an $800 replacement is bad design. I'm reminded of a possible urban legend about airbag misfires in expensive sports cars resulting in insurance companies calling the vehicles "totaled" because the airbags were so expensive. Whether that particular story is true or not, the point remains: bad design.
If you are stating that this applies to 2012-2015 models because they're also "welded" to the upper case, that's silly. The failure of a single key on a 2012-2015 model results in a $10 part, not a keyboard replacement.
I personally replaced at least three or four keycaps on a 2016 model. It's not completely/literally impossible, but it is practically impossible. They're just too delicate.
I say all of this as a person who _loves_ the butterfly keyboard. Love the snap, love the travel, love the feel. My favorite keyboard of all time, right up until they invariably fail.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
We didn't miss the main point, and your analogy applies to the 2012 through 2015 as well. An upper case replacement on the 2012 through 2015 was $649.
Mike, with all do respect, that's absurd. Individual keys on the "retina unibody" models could be replaced for $10 a pop, and that's where the vast majority of failures of any keyboard take place. PCBs can usually survive even moderate liquid damage as long as the computer gets shut down quickly.
You and I are talking about different things, and I'm not sure where the PCB discussion comes in here. An upper case replacement does not include the motherboard.
Keycaps on the 2016-2019 can be replaced in similar fashion as well, and a previous commenter addressed this as well.
By "PCB" I meant the circuit board of keyboard itself. Alright, I'll try again…
Rain22's analogy is spot on. The failure of a single key resulting in an $800 replacement is bad design. I'm reminded of a possible urban legend about airbag misfires in expensive sports cars resulting in insurance companies calling the vehicles "totaled" because the airbags were so expensive. Whether that particular story is true or not, the point remains: bad design.
If you are stating that this applies to 2012-2015 models because they're also "welded" to the upper case, that's silly. The failure of a single key on a 2012-2015 model results in a $10 part, not a keyboard replacement.
I personally replaced at least three or four keycaps on a 2016 model. It's not completely/literally impossible, but it is practically impossible. They're just too delicate.
I say all of this as a person who _loves_ the butterfly keyboard. Love the snap, love the travel, love the feel. My favorite keyboard of all time, right up until they invariably fail.
Apple can and did replace individual keys on the 2016-2019 at retail, so I'm not sure what to tell you, here. And again, this is discussed in another commenter's post on the previous page.
A single key failure does not equate to an entire upper case replacement, and hasn't for about three years.
I'm not arguing it's a GOOD engineering design, and I'm not a fan of the keyboard from a typing experience. What I am saying is that the drama about all of them potentially WILL fail and WILL ALWAYS cost $600+ to replace is not accurate.
“Anecdotally”, the butterfly keyboard broke on my 2017 15” MBP after about 3 months. At least it was just the right arrow key, I mean you barely use that when editing text in Xcode. Replaced for free, fortunately. /s
Another butterfly keyboard was DOA on my daughter’s 2017 MacBook. On the other hand, the 2015 MacBook I bought never had issues, and a 2018 MBP 15 also worked. 2/4 without problems for me - hey, not bad!
I saw a ton of issues for people at work as well. I certainly wouldn’t buy a 2019 myself, saving a bit and worrying about when it’s going to fail (and be out of warranty / replacement program coverage to boot in a few years) doesn’t sound like a good time.
(I actually really liked the 2015 MacBook variant, great to type on... the MBP version was just terrible for me, for some reason. I’m far more accurate on the 16” MBP than on the MBP butterfly mechanism, and it feels so much better type on as well.)
The double-key pressses (there it goes) on a 2019 13" MacBook Pro make me want to throw the machine into the ocean. And that's even with the Unshakey app, which ignores duplicate key presses. Maybe I got a bum model, but I wouldn't recommend anybody goo (again) anywhere near buying a butterfly keyboard.
Tim Cook loathes Apple and cares even less for its customers. Come on folks let's discuss a single unique soft/hardware product launched since Jobs' death that hasn't been a fucking embarrassment for Apple aficionados?
Tim Cook loathes Apple and cares even less for its customers. Come on folks let's discuss a single unique soft/hardware product launched since Jobs' death that hasn't been a fucking embarrassment for Apple aficionados?
Tim Cook loathes Apple and cares even less for its customers. Come on folks let's discuss a single unique soft/hardware product launched since Jobs' death that hasn't been a fucking embarrassment for Apple aficionados?
Apple Watch.
I think his post raises an interesting, broader issue. IIRC, the Watch was started under Jobs.
Other than the AirPods, what is new post-Jobs at Apple that has moved the needle? Certainly not AppleMusic, not News, not HomePod, not @TV+, not Health, not HomeKit, not CarPlay. The Card and ApplePay may end up being sleeper hits, but not yet.
The butterfly mechanism keyboard was introduced with the 2015 MacBook -- and that was beloved. When Apple discontinued it in 2019, nobody praised them for abandoning a butterfly keyboard machine, they lamented that Apple was abandoning us by taking it away.
Beloved. Really? Was it really? I think I might have seen two outside a shop. Ever. I bet the old style MBAs still outsold them. And not by a small margin. The MBA was beloved. The expensive rMB with its one port and dodgy keyboard didn’t get a look in.
Edit: Iguess you could say that some of the few people prepared to buy them loved them. Then Again, they had a lot invested in liking them as they faced the happy MBA hordes.
If I’m not mistaken the extended replacement period for butterfly keyboards is still in place for 4 years from the purchase date. I recently bought a 2017 12” Macbook on the used market. I called Apple support and I am covered until 09/2021. Otherwise I would not have taken the chance. They were very clear that it was still in effect even though I am not the original owner. Paid $600 for the mid-tier 8GigRam, 512SSD. It’s a cool Mac.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
What Apple did not anticipate is that their beautiful laptops would be used by Croissant crunching couch potatoes, aka bloggers.
Comments
So although you might say that users didn’t complain much about the noise, I think they did but perhaps it didn’t rise to the level of the complaints for the failure rates for the butterfly mechanisms. Anyway, I’m really glad to see this generation retired due to the keyboard typing noise issue.
Keycaps on the 2016-2019 can be replaced in similar fashion as well, and a previous commenter addressed this as well.
I might even have enjoyed a PCjr keyboard had I the chance.
Rain22's analogy is spot on. The failure of a single key resulting in an $800 replacement is bad design. I'm reminded of a possible urban legend about airbag misfires in expensive sports cars resulting in insurance companies calling the vehicles "totaled" because the airbags were so expensive. Whether that particular story is true or not, the point remains: bad design.
If you are stating that this applies to 2012-2015 models because they're also "welded" to the upper case, that's silly. The failure of a single key on a 2012-2015 model results in a $10 part, not a keyboard replacement.
I personally replaced at least three or four keycaps on a 2016 model. It's not completely/literally impossible, but it is practically impossible. They're just too delicate.
I say all of this as a person who _loves_ the butterfly keyboard. Love the snap, love the travel, love the feel. My favorite keyboard of all time, right up until they invariably fail.
A single key failure does not equate to an entire upper case replacement, and hasn't for about three years.
I'm not arguing it's a GOOD engineering design, and I'm not a fan of the keyboard from a typing experience. What I am saying is that the drama about all of them potentially WILL fail and WILL ALWAYS cost $600+ to replace is not accurate.
Another butterfly keyboard was DOA on my daughter’s 2017 MacBook. On the other hand, the 2015 MacBook I bought never had issues, and a 2018 MBP 15 also worked. 2/4 without problems for me - hey, not bad!
I saw a ton of issues for people at work as well. I certainly wouldn’t buy a 2019 myself, saving a bit and worrying about when it’s going to fail (and be out of warranty / replacement program coverage to boot in a few years) doesn’t sound like a good time.
(I actually really liked the 2015 MacBook variant, great to type on... the MBP version was just terrible for me, for some reason. I’m far more accurate on the 16” MBP than on the MBP butterfly mechanism, and it feels so much better type on as well.)
I enjoy typing in this keyboard, so not unmitigated...
I think I might have seen two outside a shop. Ever. I bet the old style MBAs still outsold them. And not by a small margin. The MBA was beloved. The expensive rMB with its one port and dodgy keyboard didn’t get a look in.
Jobs made great devices that happened to make a lot of money.
that difference is what leads to butterfly keyboards.