You will think very differently about these rules when someone(s) around had died due to Covid. I am in Asia and I heard more in US had died because of Covid19 than Sep 11
You will think very differently about these rules when someone(s) around had died due to Covid. I am in Asia and I heard more in US had died because of Covid19 than Sep 11
That's just media fear mongering and a pretty useless comparison in my opinion.
More than sept 11? Another comparison that I've seen the garbage media make is D-Day, lol.
In 2017 in the USA:
Heart Disease 647,457 - - - OMG that's 215 Sept 11s every single year, and just from heart disease!
Cancer 599,108 - - - OMG that's 199 Sept 11s every single year!
Accidents 169,936 - - - OMG, that's 56 Sept 11s every single year! People should be more careful so that they don't get into accidents. Maybe we should shut down society completely and save at least 170,000 lives this year
The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
I don't see anybody getting all hysterical about those deaths.
It's important to keep things in perspective. So far, all of the death totals for the virus are far, far lower than many of the insane, delusional and clueless predictions that have come from a variety of sources.
You will think very differently about these rules when someone(s) around had died due to Covid. I am in Asia and I heard more in US had died because of Covid19 than Sep 11
That's just media fear mongering and a pretty useless comparison in my opinion.
More than sept 11? Another comparison that I've seen the garbage media make is D-Day, lol.
In 2017 in the USA:
Heart Disease 647,457 - - - OMG that's 215 Sept 11s every single year, and just from heart disease!
Cancer 599,108 - - - OMG that's 199 Sept 11s every single year!
Accidents 169,936 - - - OMG, that's 56 Sept 11s every single year! People should be more careful so that they don't get into accidents. Maybe we should shut down society completely and save at least 170,000 lives this year
The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
I don't see anybody getting all hysterical about those deaths.
It's important to keep things in perspective. So far, all of the death totals for the virus are far, far lower than many of the insane, delusional and clueless predictions that have come from a variety of sources.
I'd say we're doing pretty good.
Yes! Honestly, at the rate we’re going, pretty soon the media will be telling us to be afraid of our shadow, and we’ll believe it! The level of data ignorance and fear mongering that the general public has bought into is astounding. There’s risk in everything we do in life. It’s up to us as rational humans to make intelligent decisions based on what level of risk is acceptable given the sacrifices required. Otherwise, no one would dare step foot in an automobile or play any athletic sport for fear of injury or death.
IMO, the bigger issue in an Apple Store and other similar retail environments is that everyone is touching everything. I'd be very wary of touching devices in the store while the virus is still raging. I know they'll probably clean everything several times a day, but I doubt they'll clean every device after every touch.
You better believe they will. There will be a limited amount of products on display compared to what it was and I’m pretty sure the employees will wipe down the devices in front of the customer.
You will think very differently about these rules when someone(s) around had died due to Covid. I am in Asia and I heard more in US had died because of Covid19 than Sep 11
That's just media fear mongering and a pretty useless comparison in my opinion.
More than sept 11? Another comparison that I've seen the garbage media make is D-Day, lol.
In 2017 in the USA:
Heart Disease 647,457 - - - OMG that's 215 Sept 11s every single year, and just from heart disease!
Cancer 599,108 - - - OMG that's 199 Sept 11s every single year!
Accidents 169,936 - - - OMG, that's 56 Sept 11s every single year! People should be more careful so that they don't get into accidents. Maybe we should shut down society completely and save at least 170,000 lives this year
The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
I don't see anybody getting all hysterical about those deaths.
It's important to keep things in perspective. So far, all of the death totals for the virus are far, far lower than many of the insane, delusional and clueless predictions that have come from a variety of sources.
I'd say we're doing pretty good.
With the exception of accidents and flu, those other deaths do not carry the risk of killing other people. Plus the long term effects are still unknown. There are reports of clotting issues, breathing issues, some people getting strokes, and now children are getting some weird complications.
If this is overreacting, then why is our president and Vice President getting tested repeatedly especially now after his Valet and Stephen Miller’s wife who is an aide to Pence sick with the virus.
Apple is going to follow the CDC’s guidelines and not the White House’s. If you don’t believe that it’s necessary to follow the CDC, then do not go to an Apple Store as it will upset you.
First what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”. Frankly I really doubt there will be a lot of public tolerance to having their temperature taken.
Temperatures above normal qualifies as sick in my opinion.
Stupid doctors going to school n stuff instead of getting themselves one of them good ol' opinions 'bout how the world works.
Edit: Less snarky addition: You do realise that "normal" for a group of people doesn't necessarily equal normal for every individual in that group, right? Meaning, that a temperature above "normal" when checking individuals means absolutely nothing unless you add the context of what that individual's normal temperature actually is. If the individual doesn't complain about being told they run a temperature, then you can assume that their normal temperature probably fits within the norm for the group; but if they do, you have no way of telling whether or not they normally run a bit "hot", or are lying assholes.
This whole thing with employees checking body temperatures sort of requires that they know the difference between "normal" and "norm", as well as have a basic understanding of the data their thingamajig give them about the individuals.
With the exception of accidents and flu, those other deaths do not carry the risk of killing other people. Plus the long term effects are still unknown. There are reports of clotting issues, breathing issues, some people getting strokes, and now children are getting some weird complications. If this is overreacting, then why is our president and Vice President getting tested repeatedly especially now after his Valet and Stephen Miller’s wife who is an aide to Pence sick with the virus. Apple is going to follow the CDC’s guidelines and not the White House’s. If you don’t believe that it’s necessary to follow the CDC, then do not go to an Apple Store as it will upset you.
I never wrote or implied that Apple is overreacting. I am saying that much of the media is pathetic and the media is over reacting, they are fear mongering and they are peddling a lot of garbage, including making fake news, such as CBS's recent staged line of people waiting to get tested. A lot of the news is also politicized, so they are trying to make things look as bad as they can, including using footage from Italy in stories about the USA. Many news media have a clear agenda, they're more political activists than journalists.
And in my first post in this thread, I clearly wrote that I agree with Apple.
You obviously missed that part, so I'll repeat it:
I don't have any issues with these measures. I'm all for the stores opening up as quickly as possible. If that means increased measures, then so be it. I've been calling for society to open up as soon as possible for a while now.
Stupid doctors going to school n stuff instead of getting themselves one of them good ol' opinions 'bout how the world works.
As with any profession, there are good doctors and then there are bad doctors. Some are smart, some are dumb. I've met both kinds.
Of course; but… Laymen have a tendency to group the "doesn't agree with my own diagnoses that I got from google/my horoscope"-doctors into the latter category.
I particularly like the so-called expert from the UK, the top UK govt scientist who recently resigned after violating his own lockdown measures to see some mistress. This is the same idiot that pushed for locking down the entire country. And he actually had the virus and he violated the measures. Idiot indeed.
Of course; but… Laymen have a tendency to group the "doesn't agree with my own diagnoses that I got from google/my horoscope"-doctors into the latter category.
Sometimes Google is more accurate than a Doctor.
I'll give a quick example that actually happened to me a few years back.
A few years ago, my main regular doctor was on vacation. I had a small issue, nothing serious, so I went to see another doctor at another place that I had never been to before.
The doctor ends up writing me a prescription for 2 medicines to take and I leave.
Since I would never trust any random doctor that I meet for the first time, I double check their work after I get home. I run a quick Google search for those 2 medicines and I find out that they are not supposed to be taken together. So I didn't take any of them and waited until I saw my main doctor again. I ended up telling my main doctor about it and he confirmed that I was correct to not take those 2 medicines together and he just shook his head when I told him about what had happened at the previous place.
People should always be responsible for themselves and never trust anybody else blindly, no matter what they might be, and yes, that may even include a doctor or nurse or whatever.
Of course; but… Laymen have a tendency to group the "doesn't agree with my own diagnoses that I got from google/my horoscope"-doctors into the latter category.
Sometimes Google is more accurate than a Doctor.
I'll give a quick example that actually happened to me a few years back.
A few years ago, my main regular doctor was on vacation. I had a small issue, nothing serious, so I went to see another doctor at another place that I had never been to before.
The doctor ends up writing me a prescription for 2 medicines to take and I leave.
Since I would never trust any random doctor that I meet for the first time, I double check their work after I get home. I run a quick Google search for those 2 medicines and I find out that they are not supposed to be taken together. So I didn't take any of them and waited until I saw my main doctor again. I ended up telling my main doctor about it and he confirmed that I was correct to not take those 2 medicines together and he just shook his head when I told him about what had happened at the previous place.
People should always be responsible for themselves and never trust anybody else blindly, no matter what they might be, and yes, that may even include a doctor or nurse or whatever.
And that's why you want everyone that has a to them normal body temperature higher than the norm to be classified as "sick", because your opinion about the body temperature is that everyone has the same one?
That is literally what you said when you a few comments back said "Temperatures above normal qualifies as sick in my opinion.", as a reply to someone saying 'what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”.'
You said that if you stod in that door at a grocery store and checked people's temperature, then you wouldn't allow perfectly healthy people to buy groceries because in your (medical) opinion people are per definition sick if they don't all have the same temperature as everyone else.
That's the type of ignorance that end up killing people and causing panics when people think that they know better than scientists. If your "opinion" about this spreads it would prevent some lonely living people from purchasing anything from stores checking body temperature; and could keep some lonely people from buying groceries at all.
The days of the fun, lively Apple Store are probably gone forever. Unless a cure, treatment, or vaccine for coronavirus becomes available, but not until then. I don't see anyone except employees being allowed to touch anything, all merchandise placed behind glass or lock & key, which just is not fun or a pleasant shopping experience. It was fun while it lasted, but things are forever different now until there is a cure and vaccine for this godawful disease.
The days of the fun, lively Apple Store are probably gone forever. Unless a cure, treatment, or vaccine for coronavirus becomes available, but not until then. I don't see anyone except employees being allowed to touch anything, all merchandise placed behind glass or lock & key, which just is not fun or a pleasant shopping experience. It was fun while it lasted, but things are forever different now until there is a cure and vaccine for this godawful disease.
Either that, or… people learning how to not lick their fingers after touching random things, and a bit of hand sanitzier at the entrance/exist.
And that's why you want everyone that has a to them normal body temperature higher than the norm to be classified as "sick", because your opinion about the body temperature is that everyone has the same one?
That's not for me to decide.
Apple will obviously have their guidelines and rules that their workers will have to follow.
What's the point of checking people's temperature if there aren't any clear guidelines?
Apple workers aren't trained medical professionals and they aren't in any position to grant any exceptions to anybody or to diagnose anybody. If somebody does not meet the threshold for entering an Apple store, then that should be the end of the story.
First what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”. Frankly I really doubt there will be a lot of public tolerance to having their temperature taken.
Second does social distancing really accomplished anything if people are wearing masks? I’ve been wondering about this a lot lately. I don’t mean actual touching here but rather the stupidity of the 6 foot rule.
It's called redundancy. Distancing is the first line of defence and the mask is the second. Given all that is going on and the cost socially and economically in dragging this on with half-hearted, half-baked measures, wearing a simple mask is not too much to ask.
I must say that I am very interested in whether these good habits will spill over into this winters flu season.
If we keep the habit of wearing them or just put a mask on as soon as we have the tell tale first signs of colds and flu, the recuperation of lost man hours due to habitual winter illnesses and the resulting sick leave could be notable.
And that's why you want everyone that has a to them normal body temperature higher than the norm to be classified as "sick", because your opinion about the body temperature is that everyone has the same one?
That's not for me to decide.
Apple will obviously have their guidelines and rules that their workers will have to follow.
What's the point of checking people's temperature if there aren't any clear guidelines?
Apple workers aren't trained medical professionals and they aren't in any position to grant any exceptions to anybody or to diagnose anybody. If somebody does not meet the threshold for entering an Apple store, then that should be the end of the story.
Now you're just ascribing your ignorance to other people… Since your "opinion" about something turned out to be untrue you're saying that it's impossible for other people to know how to do their job; and you're actually saying that Apple workers can't get any basic training at all before being handed a new device to check people with at the door.
And then you're doubling down on your ignorance-approach by saying that what ignorant people say should stand, because they clearly can't learn anything new about how things/people actually work.
Seriously, the education needed is as simple as giving them an example like :
Employee: I'm sorry, but you have a bit of a temperature; so I can't let you in. Customer: Oh, that's normal for me. Employee: Great, so you've had this checked with a doctor? What's your normal temperature? Customer: It's X degrees. Employee: *compares with the devices; and makes a decision*
First what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”. Frankly I really doubt there will be a lot of public tolerance to having their temperature taken.
Second does social distancing really accomplished anything if people are wearing masks? I’ve been wondering about this a lot lately. I don’t mean actual touching here but rather the stupidity of the 6 foot rule.
It's called redundancy. Distancing is the first line of defence and the mask is the second. Given all that is going on and the cost socially and economically in dragging this on with half-hearted, half-baked measures, wearing a simple mask is not too much to ask.
I must say that I am very interested in whether these good habits will spill over into this winters flu season.
If we keep the habit of wearing them or just put a mask on as soon as we have the tell tale first signs of colds and flu, the recuperation of lost man hours due to habitual winter illnesses and the resulting sick leave could be notable.
After that whole SARS thing that's become the norm in places like Hong Kong; that the even just slightly sick wear masks. So the data should be available somewhere.
seanismorris said: I suspect it’s more about making people “feel” safer than actually be safer. All the homemade masks make me laugh. All the times that people touch them...to straighten them, is more likely for them to get contaminated (and the wearer infected) than going without.
It's about reducing risk, not eliminating risk. Masks aren't impenetrable, but provide a percentage of risk reduction. So does social distancing. So does limiting the number of times you go out into public spaces with other people. So does washing your hands for 20 seconds. So does not touching your face. When you add all those things together, it becomes significant.
Comments
More than sept 11? Another comparison that I've seen the garbage media make is D-Day, lol.
In 2017 in the USA:
Heart Disease 647,457 - - - OMG that's 215 Sept 11s every single year, and just from heart disease!
Cancer 599,108 - - - OMG that's 199 Sept 11s every single year!
Accidents 169,936 - - - OMG, that's 56 Sept 11s every single year! People should be more careful so that they don't get into accidents. Maybe we should shut down society completely and save at least 170,000 lives this year
The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
I don't see anybody getting all hysterical about those deaths.
It's important to keep things in perspective. So far, all of the death totals for the virus are far, far lower than many of the insane, delusional and clueless predictions that have come from a variety of sources.
I'd say we're doing pretty good.
Edit: Less snarky addition: You do realise that "normal" for a group of people doesn't necessarily equal normal for every individual in that group, right? Meaning, that a temperature above "normal" when checking individuals means absolutely nothing unless you add the context of what that individual's normal temperature actually is. If the individual doesn't complain about being told they run a temperature, then you can assume that their normal temperature probably fits within the norm for the group; but if they do, you have no way of telling whether or not they normally run a bit "hot", or are lying assholes.
This whole thing with employees checking body temperatures sort of requires that they know the difference between "normal" and "norm", as well as have a basic understanding of the data their thingamajig give them about the individuals.
And in my first post in this thread, I clearly wrote that I agree with Apple.
You obviously missed that part, so I'll repeat it:
I don't have any issues with these measures. I'm all for the stores opening up as quickly as possible. If that means increased measures, then so be it. I've been calling for society to open up as soon as possible for a while now.
I'll give a quick example that actually happened to me a few years back.
A few years ago, my main regular doctor was on vacation. I had a small issue, nothing serious, so I went to see another doctor at another place that I had never been to before.
The doctor ends up writing me a prescription for 2 medicines to take and I leave.
Since I would never trust any random doctor that I meet for the first time, I double check their work after I get home. I run a quick Google search for those 2 medicines and I find out that they are not supposed to be taken together. So I didn't take any of them and waited until I saw my main doctor again. I ended up telling my main doctor about it and he confirmed that I was correct to not take those 2 medicines together and he just shook his head when I told him about what had happened at the previous place.
People should always be responsible for themselves and never trust anybody else blindly, no matter what they might be, and yes, that may even include a doctor or nurse or whatever.
That is literally what you said when you a few comments back said "Temperatures above normal qualifies as sick in my opinion.", as a reply to someone saying 'what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”.'
You said that if you stod in that door at a grocery store and checked people's temperature, then you wouldn't allow perfectly healthy people to buy groceries because in your (medical) opinion people are per definition sick if they don't all have the same temperature as everyone else.
That's the type of ignorance that end up killing people and causing panics when people think that they know better than scientists. If your "opinion" about this spreads it would prevent some lonely living people from purchasing anything from stores checking body temperature; and could keep some lonely people from buying groceries at all.
If we keep the habit of wearing them or just put a mask on as soon as we have the tell tale first signs of colds and flu, the recuperation of lost man hours due to habitual winter illnesses and the resulting sick leave could be notable.
And then you're doubling down on your ignorance-approach by saying that what ignorant people say should stand, because they clearly can't learn anything new about how things/people actually work.
Seriously, the education needed is as simple as giving them an example like :
Employee: I'm sorry, but you have a bit of a temperature; so I can't let you in.
Customer: Oh, that's normal for me.
Employee: Great, so you've had this checked with a doctor? What's your normal temperature?
Customer: It's X degrees.
Employee: *compares with the devices; and makes a decision*