Two things need to done to make it a truly worthwhile and usable streaming box:
1. Fix the remote. The current one is crap. A perfect example of style over usability. 2. Lower the price. It is significantly overpriced.
It is in no way overpriced. First, we just walk through how this verges on over-engineered. There is no other set top box that has that level of detail in it. Also, compared to other 4K streamers it is more, but not by much. And this sells none of your data nor subjects you to ads to help offset their cost. Think Roku, Amazon Fire, and Google Chromecast.
I have no problem with the functionality of the ATV remote. My only complaint is the size, texture, and non-obvious orientation of the thing. It's way too small for non-baby hands, too slippery, and when in a darkened room especially, it's too easy to grab it upside down. Heck, I was using my ATV two nights ago and every time I'd place it on my leg it would immediately slip off and find its way between the sofa cushion as if magnetically attracted to the gap. I don't know what kind of strange material the ATV remote is made from, but when you get it near sofa cushions, it's like a prairie dog that just spotted a coyote, zipping right down into its burrow. Maybe Apple makes these things from recycled prairie dogs, meerkats, or some other sort of burrowing rodent. I'll have to read the microscopic text on the back of the box and see what it says. That may explain a lot of things.
I feel for the Siri button. I just find that and I know the orientation every time without a doubt. That’s why Apple added that tactile ring for the 4K.
I have no problem with the functionality of the ATV remote. My only complaint is the size, texture, and non-obvious orientation of the thing. It's way too small for non-baby hands, too slippery, and when in a darkened room especially, it's too easy to grab it upside down. Heck, I was using my ATV two nights ago and every time I'd place it on my leg it would immediately slip off and find its way between the sofa cushion as if magnetically attracted to the gap. I don't know what kind of strange material the ATV remote is made from, but when you get it near sofa cushions, it's like a prairie dog that just spotted a coyote, zipping right down into its burrow. Maybe Apple makes these things from recycled prairie dogs, meerkats, or some other sort of burrowing rodent. I'll have to read the microscopic text on the back of the box and see what it says. That may explain a lot of things.
Yeah, it's been over a month since the Jon Prosser rumor of an A12X ATV being ready for release "at any time".
Which would be fine, except that there's nothing I want that my ATV 4K doesn't already do.
I think it needs three things: 1: a lower price 2: a lower price 3: a lower price
otherwise it is the best streaming box out there. It’s closest competitor is the Nvidia shield. At the Apple TV price it comes with a game controller as well as the remote. Drop the Apple TV AUD$50 and it would be go gangbusters.
Two things need to done to make it a truly worthwhile and usable streaming box:
1. Fix the remote. The current one is crap. A perfect example of style over usability. 2. Lower the price. It is significantly overpriced.
Give it a rest.. You want cheap? Go to Roku or Google where they admitted they subsidize the boxes so that they can harvest as much info about you as possible.
Or... go Apple's route and get a high-quality piece of hardware, along with knowing that Apple will not pimp you out.
You are the problem when you put prices above all else on the priority spectrum.
I have no problem with the functionality of the ATV remote. My only complaint is the size, texture, and non-obvious orientation of the thing. It's way too small for non-baby hands, too slippery, and when in a darkened room especially, it's too easy to grab it upside down. Heck, I was using my ATV two nights ago and every time I'd place it on my leg it would immediately slip off and find its way between the sofa cushion as if magnetically attracted to the gap. I don't know what kind of strange material the ATV remote is made from, but when you get it near sofa cushions, it's like a prairie dog that just spotted a coyote, zipping right down into its burrow. Maybe Apple makes these things from recycled prairie dogs, meerkats, or some other sort of burrowing rodent. I'll have to read the microscopic text on the back of the box and see what it says. That may explain a lot of things.
Agreed, I love the touch-scrubbing and also find touch to be much better than a directional pad. But, the orientation issue stinks, and it’s too slippery. I had to get a rubberized case for it.
I like the AppleTV. Have one connected to every TV in the house. The current software is generally good but there is still quite a bit of room for improvement. Integration with the apps and Watch Now is a bit clunky and tends to get stuck on one episode when it should advance to another. Switching between devices is not straightforward or reliable. Integration with the TVapp on the Mac is also unreliable. Subscriptions are not 100% successful. I spent months trying to get the BritBox app to work reliably on either the TVapp or AppleTV. Other Apps can refuse to play even when we have subscription with the cable company. The remote clearly has issues. The trackpad is so sensitive (even at the lowest setting) and if you pick it up at the wrong end you can exit or skip back or forward by accident. The trackpad tries to do too many things (pause, play, skip back / fwd, options, picture in picture). Managing that in 1 square inch is very tricky and often get the wrong result.
Why not add a USB port and a Time Machine function to it or add a Time Machine function to HomePod? Seriously, Time Machine sucks on anything other than an Airport or TimeCapsule. Why not both home devices? It would be trivial to add.
Simply buy a case for the remote. They are cheap. Allows you to change the color, makes it more visible, slip resistant, shock resistant, and you know much easier which way is up. Also some lift the remote off the surface, so less contact with liquid spills.
You can also program the Apple TV to respond to commands from regular remotes.
Yes it is expensive, however it has a lot of power and regularly gets updates. There is going to be a lot of smart stuff that will stop working, or at least some of the features just because of a lack of updates. Certificates are expiring, and stuff is going to break.
neilm said: Which would be fine, except that there's nothing I want that my ATV 4K doesn't already do.
I can understand that. But people who have an interest in Apple Arcade (like me) would want a bump up in storage capacity + graphics processing vs. the A10X in the current 4K hardware. And I'm sure that's not the only functionality that will get a boost from a new SoC.
neilm said: Which would be fine, except that there's nothing I want that my ATV 4K doesn't already do.
I can understand that. But people who have an interest in Apple Arcade (like me) would want a bump up in storage capacity + graphics processing vs. the A10X in the current 4K hardware. And I'm sure that's not the only functionality that will get a boost from a new SoC.
Are there many games being made for the Apple TV that are pushing its GPU, or developpers that are complaining about it? Doesn't seem liike a bottleneck to me.
Two things need to done to make it a truly worthwhile and usable streaming box:
1. Fix the remote. The current one is crap. A perfect example of style over usability. 2. Lower the price. It is significantly overpriced.
It is in no way overpriced. First, we just walk through how this verges on over-engineered. There is no other set top box that has that level of detail in it. Also, compared to other 4K streamers it is more, but not by much. And this sells none of your data nor subjects you to ads to help offset their cost. Think Roku, Amazon Fire, and Google Chromecast.
Totally agree. I love the Apple TV. In fact, I’d like to see Apple use the Apple TV as the basis for what I’d call Apple’s Raspberry Pi equivalent. This would include a version of XCode for the Apple TV that would allow anyone, especially kids, to get started with programming apps that run on Apple TV, iOS, and iPadOS as a minimum, in other words all of Apple’s ARM based products - so may as well include WatchOS. Stripping out x86 support may be one way to skinny down XCode.
I don’t see too many technical hurdles to what I’m proposing, especially with Apple’s move towards a primary focus on ARM. The biggest challenge is hitting the right price point that makes it affordable in the targeted demographic. However, if you’re going to make price concessions there is no better place to do so than in an area that grows the Apple developer community.
An Apple TV Coder’s Edition may be one way to help build the community and get more kids coding. The Apple TV already has a vast untapped potential for educational content delivery, so why not take it up a few notches and use it to attract new developers.
neilm said: Which would be fine, except that there's nothing I want that my ATV 4K doesn't already do.
I can understand that. But people who have an interest in Apple Arcade (like me) would want a bump up in storage capacity + graphics processing vs. the A10X in the current 4K hardware. And I'm sure that's not the only functionality that will get a boost from a new SoC.
Are there many games being made for the Apple TV that are pushing its GPU, or developpers that are complaining about it? Doesn't seem liike a bottleneck to me.
Every Apple Arcade title is on the Apple TV as well as many others. So it is quite the gaming platforming, depending on who is using it. It does have minor limitations in the GPU but not a ton because it is based around processors used in the iPhones. More storage is definitely preferred though as games eat up a lot of storage.
Here's one thing that doesn't suck about the Apple TV Siri remote: battery life. I use mine a moderate amount and I just charged it for the first time. I started using it 18 months ago. And it was nice to obtain battery warnings instead of the usual "Why isn't my remote working? Is it the battery?"
Apple misses out on a lot of the benefits of that integration by poor or lazy execution. Our Apple TV only works with Apple programming, not with Netflix or Amazon. Airplay also no longer works. I'm sure I could fix it if I spent the time, but the remote annoys me enough that I just use either TIVO or Amazon's Fire box unless I want to watch something that I can only get on Apple's.
I'll probably buy a new Apple TV if they have a decent remote, but improving the software should also be a priority for them. In particular, I'd like to see the ability to have multiple TV Apps in memory at once, so switching between the various apps is cumbersome. I think Apple thought the unified interface would be enough, but that's not working out.
crowley said: Are there many games being made for the Apple TV that are pushing its GPU, or developpers that are complaining about it? Doesn't seem liike a bottleneck to me.
Apple Arcade games work on roughly the same principle as PC games: the better the hardware, the better the visuals and frame rate. A lot of games have customization settings for the graphics and a choice between 30/60 FPS, so it's not hard to get a general idea of what limitations there are with older SoCs. The A10X in the current 4K ATV is well behind the A12X, so there probably are already some shortcomings for certain 3D based games.
Why not add a USB port and a Time Machine function to it or add a Time Machine function to HomePod? Seriously, Time Machine sucks on anything other than an Airport or TimeCapsule. Why not both home devices? It would be trivial to add.
Sure. There's lots of things ATV "could be." I've pined for an ATV with a couple of OTA tuners and a coax plug. But there is *no way* Apple would do that since there is no way to monetize it (other than with the collection of user data for sale, and AAPL does not do that.) First and foremost this box will always be about selling subscriptions. It will be designed, built, marketed, and supported only to do only that.
Apple misses out on a lot of the benefits of that integration by poor or lazy execution. Our Apple TV only works with Apple programming, not with Netflix or Amazon. Airplay also no longer works. I'm sure I could fix it if I spent the time, but the remote annoys me enough that I just use either TIVO or Amazon's Fire box unless I want to watch something that I can only get on Apple's.
I'll probably buy a new Apple TV if they have a decent remote, but improving the software should also be a priority for them. In particular, I'd like to see the ability to have multiple TV Apps in memory at once, so switching between the various apps is cumbersome. I think Apple thought the unified interface would be enough, but that's not working out.
Huh? We had no problems with Netflix or Amazon on AppleTV. Double Tap on the TV button the the remote and you can switch to many different apps.
Why not add a USB port and a Time Machine function to it or add a Time Machine function to HomePod? Seriously, Time Machine sucks on anything other than an Airport or TimeCapsule. Why not both home devices? It would be trivial to add.
Sure. There's lots of things ATV "could be." I've pined for an ATV with a couple of OTA tuners and a coax plug. But there is *no way* Apple would do that since there is no way to monetize it (other than with the collection of user data for sale, and AAPL does not do that.) First and foremost this box will always be about selling subscriptions. It will be designed, built, marketed, and supported only to do only that.
The Silicon Dust products work very well for that. Get the Channels app from Fancy Bits in the App store and you have a complete over the air solution with optional DVR. I don’t watch much over the air TV but for local live football games and a TV show or two, it works nearly perfectly if you have a decent location for an antenna.
Comments
I feel for the Siri button. I just find that and I know the orientation every time without a doubt. That’s why Apple added that tactile ring for the 4K.
Never thought much about the price.
The current software is generally good but there is still quite a bit of room for improvement. Integration with the apps and Watch Now is a bit clunky and tends to get stuck on one episode when it should advance to another. Switching between devices is not straightforward or reliable.
Integration with the TVapp on the Mac is also unreliable.
Subscriptions are not 100% successful. I spent months trying to get the BritBox app to work reliably on either the TVapp or AppleTV. Other Apps can refuse to play even when we have subscription with the cable company.
The remote clearly has issues. The trackpad is so sensitive (even at the lowest setting) and if you pick it up at the wrong end you can exit or skip back or forward by accident. The trackpad tries to do too many things (pause, play, skip back / fwd, options, picture in picture). Managing that in 1 square inch is very tricky and often get the wrong result.
You can also program the Apple TV to respond to commands from regular remotes.
Yes it is expensive, however it has a lot of power and regularly gets updates. There is going to be a lot of smart stuff that will stop working, or at least some of the features just because of a lack of updates. Certificates are expiring, and stuff is going to break.
I'll probably buy a new Apple TV if they have a decent remote, but improving the software should also be a priority for them. In particular, I'd like to see the ability to have multiple TV Apps in memory at once, so switching between the various apps is cumbersome. I think Apple thought the unified interface would be enough, but that's not working out.
Channels DVR on the App Store
https://www.silicondust.com/