Apple Developer Transition Kits with Apple Silicon sports a A12Z chip in a $500 Mac mini

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    seanjseanj Posts: 300member
    I’m guessing Thinderbolt is absent due to it being an Intel technology implemented using their chipset. However this will be an non-issue with the convergence of Thunderbolt and USB with USB 4 due next year.
    So the first new Mac might not feature a Thunderbolt - as the 12” MacBook didn’t - or might not arrive until USB 4.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 38
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    The 12z (7nm) looked very impressive on today’s demos. Now imagine what the -soon to be released - 5nm (or 3nm) 14z can do! It’s going to be a screamer! Time to short sell INTC!!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 38
    flydog said:

    rcfa said:
    A pity, with these specs a iPad Pro with MagicKeyboard would have been sufficient; was hoping one might just do an install on either the iPad or an USB SSD and use the iPad for development...
    The purpose is to test Mac apps, which generally are used with screens twice the size of an iPad.  Testing Mac apps on an iPad makes very little sense. 


    I think too, that the iPad Pros probably don’t have enough RAM. 

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 38
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,399member
    Or usb 4. 
    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 38
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,399member
    Re: thunderbolt

    if an a12z chip was driving that display at full Rez, it must be running TB3.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 38
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,704member
    eriamjh said:
    Re: thunderbolt

    if an a12z chip was driving that display at full Rez, it must be running TB3.  

    Aren’t intel tiger lake and AMD zen 3 with USB4 capability being released later this year? I would expect Apple devices would be the same. And if it needs TB3 to run the Apple XDR I would say it already has it, just not revealed.
    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 38
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,176member
    rcfa said:
    A pity, with these specs a iPad Pro with MagicKeyboard would have been sufficient; was hoping one might just do an install on either the iPad or an USB SSD and use the iPad for development...
    Only 6GB of RAM though, which may not be sufficient to run macOS 11 and Xcode, and these many be clocked higher than the iPad's A12Z.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 38
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,176member

    KTR said:
    eriamjh said:
    The fastest Mac mini ever built.  16GB RAM. 512GB SSD.  No TB3, but t's gonna scream (compared to the Intel mini).
    I wonder how many cores are in the Soc chip?
    Presumably it's the same as the iPad Pro's A12Z, so 8 (4 - high-performance, 4 - high-efficiency).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 38
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,057member
    Go to https://developer.apple.com/programs/universal/ for information on the Developer's Kit. Go to bottom for this:

    As part of the program, you’ll have limited access to a Developer Transition Kit (DTK), which will be shipped to you, for developing and testing your Universal apps. The DTK is owned by Apple and must be returned.

    Universal App Quick Start Program terms and conditions 

    The specifications for this Mac mini are below. 


    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 38
    payecopayeco Posts: 533member
    tht said:

    dk49 said:
    They didn't mention how much this kit will cost to the developers. Or is it just free for developers..😅
    And "as part of the program, you’ll have limited access to a Developer Transition Kit (DTK), which will be shipped to you, for developing and testing your Universal apps. The DTK is owned by Apple and must be returned."
    This is basically the same arrangement as the DTK for the PPC to Intel transition, except that one cost $1000 instead of $500. Apple may provide developers a $500 coupon or discount for official ARM Macs when they ship.

    Last time developers got an Intel based iMac, for free, once they returned the developer kit. This wasn’t advertised as what would happen, Apple simply surprised developers by shipping them the iMac once they returned the dev kit. I’m seriously tempted to buy once of these dev kits on the chance Apple does it again. Worst case scenario, Apple does something like you mentioned and gives you a $500 credit to the Apple Store to buy a new ARM based Mac. I can’t imagine a scenario where they just take the kit back and eat your $500.
    williamlondonfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 38
    payecopayeco Posts: 533member
    zimmie said:
    For now, I wouldn't read too much into Thunderbolt being absent. No other A12 device has Thunderbolt, after all. The DTK is using an extended version of a phone chip, which has only ever needed to provide PCIe-like connectivity to the GPU and the SSD controller, both of which are on-die. Never anything external.


    I agree. The lack of Thunderbolt is no doubt due to the fact that a couple years ago Intel moved Thunderbolt from being a discrete chip to being integrated into the CPU and no longer offering a discrete option. Apple didn’t figure it worth their time or effort to redesign the A12Z to include it when these kits are intended solely for software devs. The shipping ARM Macs will no doubt have Thunderbolt. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 38
    john f.john f. Posts: 111member
    payeco said:
    I agree. The lack of Thunderbolt is no doubt due to the fact that a couple years ago Intel moved Thunderbolt from being a discrete chip to being integrated into the CPU and no longer offering a discrete option. Apple didn’t figure it worth their time or effort to redesign the A12Z to include it when these kits are intended solely for software devs. The shipping ARM Macs will no doubt have Thunderbolt. 
    I think so too. Thunderbolt support will come with USB 4.

    Also, we'll see Mac specific CPU range, because Mac desktops don't need the high efficiency cores of the A12. If they just pack the new A14 based chip with 8 high performance cores, that thing would scream for the low end. The CPU with efficiency cores will probably be used for MacBooks, but even with only performance cores, the thermal envelope and wattage will still be far less than what Intel has offered and will be offering in the near future. Add to that an Apple GPU that would destroy any Intel integrated one, and the Mac mini will be more Pro than it has ever been, and might become a true trashcan replacement. I really hope the value proposition will increase with the switch, and that Apple will not cripple the low end by putting outdated A series processors in there.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 38
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    KTR said:
    eriamjh said:
    The fastest Mac mini ever built.  16GB RAM. 512GB SSD.  No TB3, but t's gonna scream (compared to the Intel mini).
    I wonder how many cores are in the Soc chip?
    A Mac shipping to customers at the end of the year will likely have 8 cores if they don’t have SMT.  They will need those cores to be competitive with AMD hardware.    This will not be a big deal because the chips will be based on 5nm tech.  
  • Reply 34 of 38
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    payeco said:
    tht said:

    dk49 said:
    They didn't mention how much this kit will cost to the developers. Or is it just free for developers..😅
    And "as part of the program, you’ll have limited access to a Developer Transition Kit (DTK), which will be shipped to you, for developing and testing your Universal apps. The DTK is owned by Apple and must be returned."
    This is basically the same arrangement as the DTK for the PPC to Intel transition, except that one cost $1000 instead of $500. Apple may provide developers a $500 coupon or discount for official ARM Macs when they ship.

    Last time developers got an Intel based iMac, for free, once they returned the developer kit. This wasn’t advertised as what would happen, Apple simply surprised developers by shipping them the iMac once they returned the dev kit. I’m seriously tempted to buy once of these dev kits on the chance Apple does it again. Worst case scenario, Apple does something like you mentioned and gives you a $500 credit to the Apple Store to buy a new ARM based Mac. I can’t imagine a scenario where they just take the kit back and eat your $500.
    Yes, the headline of this article is wrong. The $500 is not for the Mac Mini DTK, it's the cost of joining the Developer Quick Start Program, the Mac Mini is provided as part of the Program, but on a limited basis.  I wouldn't assume you'll get reimbursed when you send it back, though experience of the previous transition suggests that you may.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 38
    I think they will keep the high efficiency cores, at least for lower end computers. There are some tasks like email, updates, iMessages, and others that do not require a lot of power. Apple will want to keep these tasks as low power as possible for environmental reasons.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 38
    payecopayeco Posts: 533member
    john f. said:
    payeco said:
    I agree. The lack of Thunderbolt is no doubt due to the fact that a couple years ago Intel moved Thunderbolt from being a discrete chip to being integrated into the CPU and no longer offering a discrete option. Apple didn’t figure it worth their time or effort to redesign the A12Z to include it when these kits are intended solely for software devs. The shipping ARM Macs will no doubt have Thunderbolt. 
    I think so too. Thunderbolt support will come with USB 4.

    Also, we'll see Mac specific CPU range, because Mac desktops don't need the high efficiency cores of the A12. If they just pack the new A14 based chip with 8 high performance cores, that thing would scream for the low end. The CPU with efficiency cores will probably be used for MacBooks, but even with only performance cores, the thermal envelope and wattage will still be far less than what Intel has offered and will be offering in the near future. Add to that an Apple GPU that would destroy any Intel integrated one, and the Mac mini will be more Pro than it has ever been, and might become a true trashcan replacement. I really hope the value proposition will increase with the switch, and that Apple will not cripple the low end by putting outdated A series processors in there.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep 1 or 2 high efficiency cores even on desktop class CPUs, or at least iMac and Mac Mini CPUs, just for extra power savings when PCs are sitting idle. In the aggregate the potential power savings seems like something they would want to tout from a green marketing perspective.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 38
    john f.john f. Posts: 111member
    payeco said:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep 1 or 2 high efficiency cores even on desktop class CPUs, or at least iMac and Mac Mini CPUs, just for extra power savings when PCs are sitting idle. In the aggregate the potential power savings seems like something they would want to tout from a green marketing perspective.
    Now that I think about it, it would make sense for a desktop Mac to have a slumber mode and be able to do rudimentary Siri commands and even getting Mail on those efficiency cores, or control HomeKit setup, without having the computer be fully awake. That wouldn't use much power at all.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 38
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,176member
    john f. said:
    payeco said:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep 1 or 2 high efficiency cores even on desktop class CPUs, or at least iMac and Mac Mini CPUs, just for extra power savings when PCs are sitting idle. In the aggregate the potential power savings seems like something they would want to tout from a green marketing perspective.
    Now that I think about it, it would make sense for a desktop Mac to have a slumber mode and be able to do rudimentary Siri commands and even getting Mail on those efficiency cores, or control HomeKit setup, without having the computer be fully awake. That wouldn't use much power at all.
    This is already a thing — it's called Power Nap:
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204032
    watto_cobra
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