Apple's macOS 11 Big Sur marks the end of OS X, not the Mac

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    ForumPost said:
    Did Apple hire Google's emoji team to draw up this weird condom battery?

    Oh my god! 

    I do hope they change that icon  :o
    Looks like that battery had a good time!
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 613member
    Lordhan said:

    "I think those guys are being total tools, honestly," said Federighi. "I mean, I don't how they can even begin to come up with that theory. I get people coming up asking if we can still launch Terminal? Yes, you can. These Macs are Macs. We're not changing any of this.
    This is from John Gruber’s Daring Fireball 2020 WWDC The Talk Show YouTube video. You should credit the source.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg9F1Qjv3iU

    mattinozlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 40
    While it looks like macOS is being design for touch, I think it's really about simplify development for developers and easy of use for customers.
    canukstormlolliverbakedbananas
  • Reply 24 of 40
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,833member
    What's in a name? What matters is what one can do with the system (or no longer do!), how fast, and price.
    APPLE2c-1984bakedbananas
  • Reply 25 of 40
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    The current Mac App Store is limping along - this change will breathe new life to Mac apps, the lifeblood of any OS. If MS Office (needed for legitimacy), and ‘big screen’ oriented Pro Creative Design, Audio and Video apps smoothly make the transition, then the platform will continue to live on and even grow beyond its stagnant 10% market share. It is critical for Apple to support developers in porting to ARM, and it appears they have a solid plan that is already quite far ahead. Developers targeting iOS can now leverage their work for the Mac and expand their audience (and revenue) for a limited amount of effort. What will really be attractive - when Intel chips are shed - is a desktop/laptop platform that is more cost effective (think more $999 Macs - not $3000 Macs) and that is incredibly fast (potentially 2 or 3 times faster than Wintel Systems). Two advantages Mac needs.
    bakedbananaswatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,149member
    sflocal said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Why would anyone think that these changes represent “the end of the Mac?”  Apple isn’t losing interest in the Mac, we are. I can’t even describe how much less I use my MacBook than I did even 10 years ago. I can do everything on my phone or work iPad. I use my MacBook for a lot of typing, video processing, etc.  That’s about it.  
    I’ve been using my iPad Pro exclusively for over a year and to be blunt, it would take a lot to bring me back to using a desktop computer. I’d consider a new MacBook Pro, but I no longer have a need for an iMac or Mac Pro.

    If and when Apple introduces a new computing paradigm with glasses or whatever, I might be interested.
    For every person that says this about their iPad Pro, there’s a person that says the opposite.

    the iPad pros are great machines and I know quite a few people that use them as their primary computer.

    i know even more (I’m included) that can’t ever migrate to that solution.  There’s room (and a need) for both.
    Completely agree. I got a 2nd gen IPad Pro a few years ago and tried using it as my primary computer. There were some things for which it worked perfectly, a lot of things which I technically could do but were very cumbersome and kludgy, and some things I just couldn’t do at all. One problem is that many Apps that are available on both the iPad and the Mac do not have feature parity. I ended up getting a MBP several months later but I still find myself switching between the two depending on what I want to do. For some things the MBP is the only real option, for some it’t works better, and fore some the iPad Pro is simply quicker and more convenient. (Not to mention the Logitech keyboard on my iPad blows the socks off the abysmal butterfly keyboard on the MBP!)
    edited June 2020 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 40
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,321member
    Big Sur will make Macs and iPads and iPhones look the same, but they will not be the same.  

    This is unified look, feel, and interoperability.  It is not merging of systems under common functionality.  One is not replacing the other.  

    The Mac, iPad, and iPhone each have their place.  They each have their own OS.
    canukstormfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 40
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 838member
    To be honest, the Mac OS that we have known is going away to what will be essentially a Desktop/Laptop interface upon a code base very similar to iOS and that could be a good thing.

    As iPad OS continues to evolve away from being a simple iOS clone the need for the Mac OS becomes less and less broad and it will probably continue to fade away. If Apple built an iPad Pro that rendered widescreen on an external monitor and ran in a clamshell mode like a MacBook, I would probably be done with the Mac. The trackpad support on iPad OS is pretty good and has been a great improvement.

    I have a new BTO MacBook Air with the i7 CPU sitting in Anchorage as I write this and it could quite likely be the last Mac laptop I ever buy. The iPad Pro with the new keyboard is that good.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 40
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 838member
    To be honest, the Mac OS that we have known is going away to what will be essentially a Desktop/Laptop interface upon a code base very similar to iOS and that could be a good thing.

    As iPad OS continues to evolve away from being a simple iOS clone the need for the Mac OS becomes less and less broad and it will probably continue to fade away. If Apple built an iPad Pro that rendered widescreen on an external monitor and ran in a clamshell mode like a MacBook, I would probably be done with the Mac. The trackpad support on iPad OS is pretty good and has been a great improvement.

    I have a new BTO MacBook Air with the i7 CPU sitting in Anchorage as I write this and it could quite likely be the last Mac laptop I ever buy. The iPad Pro with the new keyboard is that good.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,631member
    davgreg said:
    To be honest, the Mac OS that we have known is going away to what will be essentially a Desktop/Laptop interface upon a code base very similar to iOS and that could be a good thing.

    As iPad OS continues to evolve away from being a simple iOS clone the need for the Mac OS becomes less and less broad and it will probably continue to fade away. If Apple built an iPad Pro that rendered widescreen on an external monitor and ran in a clamshell mode like a MacBook, I would probably be done with the Mac. The trackpad support on iPad OS is pretty good and has been a great improvement.

    I have a new BTO MacBook Air with the i7 CPU sitting in Anchorage as I write this and it could quite likely be the last Mac laptop I ever buy. The iPad Pro with the new keyboard is that good.

  • Reply 31 of 40
    I would buy the iPad Pro, but because of the slow capacity of memory I should don't to buy this yet, for we can to developer apps we have a lot of memory capacity !
    So, what do yours think, we can to develop using iPad Pro ?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 40
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,833member
    eriamjh said:
    Big Sur will make Macs and iPads and iPhones look the same, but they will not be the same.  

    This is unified look, feel, and interoperability.  It is not merging of systems under common functionality.  One is not replacing the other.  

    The Mac, iPad, and iPhone each have their place.  They each have their own OS.
    The distinction is rapidly becoming less and will very soon be entirely a difference in hardware features. I'm sure Apple has thought it through, as to how to coerce customers into buying more expensive devices and multiple devices. (The iPhone will always have seductive features found nowhere else. iPads will never have Thunderbolt or gobs of memory and SSD, but "Macs" will. "Macs" may never have a touch display or pencil input, but of course Apple will be in a strategic position to add those features at any time if the market demands it.)
    edited June 2020 APPLE2c-1984watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 40
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,833member
    I believe Apple's stated 2 year transition is going to be basically completed more like 14 months from now, like the transition to Intel occurred in 2006, helped along by the Osborne effect, where some people are already saying now is not the time to buy a Mac unless you have to.
    edited June 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 40
    I noticed he kept talking about the visual aspects of it all.  While I do prefer the more older or traditional looks of the Mac, there is something to be said about visual consistency.  So, the visual changes aren’t a huge deal for me.  I also think this could help first time Mac users learn the Mac as it becomes more consistent with its mobile counterparts.  My concern and someone could help alleviate my concern and that is I’m afraid that Apple/Developers will dumb down their respective applications to the lowest common denominator so it works across all platforms.  Another way to say it, I’m afraid traditional desktop oriented applications will lose functionality all in the name of being able to work on the mobile counterpart......all for seamless continuity. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 40
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member
    I would buy the iPad Pro, but because of the slow capacity of memory I should don't to buy this yet, for we can to developer apps we have a lot of memory capacity !
    So, what do yours think, we can to develop using iPad Pro ?
    Develop what?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 40
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member

    cpsro said:

    "Macs" may never have a touch display or pencil input, but of course Apple will be in a strategic position to add those features at any time if the market demands it.)
    On the contrary, it already kinda does with Sidecar. They can continue to build on that for sure.
    APPLE2c-1984watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 40
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member
    Anyone seen any mention of the Touch Bar this week?
    APPLE2c-1984watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 40
    Fatman said:
    The current Mac App Store is limping along - this change will breathe new life to Mac apps, the lifeblood of any OS. If MS Office (needed for legitimacy), and ‘big screen’ oriented Pro Creative Design, Audio and Video apps smoothly make the transition, then the platform will continue to live on and even grow beyond its stagnant 10% market share. It is critical for Apple to support developers in porting to ARM, and it appears they have a solid plan that is already quite far ahead. Developers targeting iOS can now leverage their work for the Mac and expand their audience (and revenue) for a limited amount of effort. What will really be attractive - when Intel chips are shed - is a desktop/laptop platform that is more cost effective (think more $999 Macs - not $3000 Macs) and that is incredibly fast (potentially 2 or 3 times faster than Wintel Systems). Two advantages Mac needs.
    I’d be curious what brings you to the conclusions of 2-3 times faster and $999 Macs with going to Apple Silicon: while Apple can almost certainly save quite a bit of money per chip (especially via making it SoC except for RAM, SSD and often discrete GPU, perhaps a few other things) just throwing in a fast  CPU alone does not guarantee a fast system: you still need high-speed SSD and RAM subsystems to keep the hungry beast fed.  Those things cost money, and a CPU 2-3 times faster needs notably faster and more expensive memory to achieve that.  The price of memory that fast aren’t likely to only be that much more expensive, but nonlinearly more expensive.

    I’ve watched the CPU benchmarks of the A series CPUs over the past few years getting into Intel x64 levels of performance, in battery-powered passively-cooled systems, and wondering what they could do with more capacity to dissipate waste heat and not stuck on tiny batteries, but also keeping in mind Apple has tightly designed their systems for maximum bang for the buck with balanced systems.  Compared to desktop/laptop machines, Apple’s iPhones and iPads have always (until most recent iPad Pro with 6 GB RAM) had notably less RAM than their Macs: the more RAM you have, the more quickly the battery is drained even in standby, let alone in active use.  This RAM is not going to be the cheapest RAM because of the trade for fast-but-energy-cheap performance tradeoffs.  Put enough (16 GB these days should be the base level for a Mac) and the expense grows quickly.

    the majority of the time a CPU is executing code, 30-40% of the time every CPU core is idle, waiting for data to be retrieved from main memory.  Throwing more cores on a chip to a point ensures there are always CPU computations going on in at least one core more often than not, but not even that is guaranteed.  Adding more cores beyond a certain point absolutely guarantees the main memory bandwidth will be incapable of keeping any of them truly busy doing computations: wasted silicon, you might as well not have added those cores, because beyond a certain point, cache coherency and other factors guarantees more power wasted with lower total throughout per core and for the whole system.

    any system 2-3 times faster than Intel’s for throughout will cost a lot more than the system you compare it to in this situation.  You can’t make it all that much faster while making it cheaper, because the CPU monster Must Be Fed, and it is expensive.
    APPLE2c-1984bakedbananaswatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 40
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,598member
    cpsro said:
    I believe Apple's stated 2 year transition is going to be basically completed more like 14 months from now, like the transition to Intel occurred in 2006, helped along by the Osborne effect, where some people are already saying now is not the time to buy a Mac unless you have to.
    The Osborne effect wasn't very pronounced in 2006, I'd think it will be less so this time. PowerPC didn't produce anything interesting they were basically out of the market the day Apple. Intel even if late slow and off the curve will still be in the market trying to produce compelling upgrades. Regardless of how good the new machines are there will be people who'll but the last intel over the first Apple Silicon. They will even up spec to get a couple of extra years out of the purchase.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 40
    PDRPRTS said:
    Apple said countless times.. the MacOS would never be touch-based. What we will have soon is a touch-based OS rebranded Mac. and this is not bad, from a financial and technological point of view it is not only understandable but actually very exciting. just what we will have is iOS's and iDevices take of an old paradigm we once called Macintosh. the Mac started with, and much because, of the mouse. as we shift paradigm to touch, the Mac as it has been since its inception is simply gone. What we have coming technically is better than anything Apple has done without a doubt, and perhaps it makes sense to sacrifice the Mac era for this new profitable and exciting iOS based platform. Steve Jobs said it himself, platforms peak and die. so what remains of the Mac from where i stand is essentially the name..
    (big issue might be the likely end of non App Store installs and the big saas push, but this another issue).

    By the end of this transition, we will have hyper powerful machines running something spectacular, that we will maybe call Macs, but that will likely be as different from the Mac as the Mac was from the Apple II series.
    How did you manage to come to this conclusion?


    Some time ago i shared here that although most talked about this impending transition from a "path of Catalyst"-perspective, everything in Apple's choices (but explicit communication) seemed to indicate a return to Rosetta. i was also questioned for this and went in as much detail as i could then, but really the shortest answer is that weve been here before and this has all already happened.

    Whenever Apple jumps over to a new ship, the old is soon tossed unceremoniously, regardless of any prevailing consensus. This new ARM ship was built for, and with touch in mind. it can be used with a cursor much like we can touch-control the Mac now with (and long before) Sidecar, but it doesnt need it any more than the 1984 Macintosh needed the Apple II prompt. so again for this transition we can see a very strong possibility that transitioning from the mouse might be an inevitability. of course we will be able to use a mouse but likely we will be using (and relearning) software that makes possible anything we have now, and likely infinitely more, but more easily even, and with touch. and we will be able to pull the terminal on the new machines and OS of course but id be wary of some of the new generation management who neglects to say this was always an iOS option. Jobs and Ive might have been many things but they never relied too much on wording skills.

    i strongly believe that the new Apple Silicon products will be an absolute dream given time, and that given time all that we will be forgoing in OS X and Intel will be supremely surpassed. I also believe that meanwhile the large majority of users will experience minimal to no loss. but personally i just bought a 2017 MacBook regardless of the butterfly, cause it might just be that, for some time, Mojave will be the only OS i can afford to use without having to spend a really huge amount of time and money to "keep up" (i could only use Catalina on one of my three machines but then it would be incompatible with Photos on the others). i think we we need to praise the vision for sure (the alternatives are still mostly far more complicated) but also check it - so rather than an imposition - it keeps being our vision too. otherwise no matter how many colors we are back to beige. but i always trust they will keep being this fantastic, and have always now going way past the 30 year mark since the Apple IIc. i will definitely keep up asap. cant wait too for Apples take on AR/VR.

    canukstorm
Sign In or Register to comment.