Apple reportedly evaluating Apple Silicon-powered macOS on iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 87
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,581member

    Just because they could run MacOS using an iPhone's hardware, doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is not about convergence at all. It is about either running iOS or MacOS. The fundamental problem with MacOS is the lack of touchscreen support.
    Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore.

    Samsung DeX is the correct way to go: you use the same OS in both modes, you share exactly the same files, the same apps and you have a perfect seamless switch between both. Android is a real capable OS because it is basically Linux.
    Since Office, Outlook and Teams for Android, you have everything you need in DeX, including real desktop sharing, connecting a second monitor, running all Android apps. Actually everything that people are excited about in this discussion. Oh, I forgot ... it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good.

    "it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good." => The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation.

    "Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore." => You mean IF macOS gets touch-screen support.  Apple has been pretty adamant of being against that idea.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 87
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,851member
    Rayz2016 said:
    muaddib said:
    The problem I see is one of RAM.  iPhones have a relatively small amount of ram because of energy use, and Macs the more ram the better.
    I don't see how this is limitation is overcome.
    By putting the memory in the terminal and using the terminal's power supply to run the phone while it's in docked mode. The phone supplies the processor, the OS and the apps. Everything is linked through a smart connector on the edge of the phone. Once connected, the whole setup runs as one integrated unit.


    Doesn't that mean the memory is bandwidth constrained by how much data the GPU is pushing to the screen?

    What would be interesting to know is if AppleSilicon can "eGPU" another AppleSilicon instance. If they can cluster together. then the cable only needs to handle crosstalk between the two chips. The second chip could then be in the terminal and make the terminal standalone useful as a low end Mac or as host for remote desktops or could be a dongle cable. Either way you move screen bandwidth out of the way.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 87

    Just because they could run MacOS using an iPhone's hardware, doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is not about convergence at all. It is about either running iOS or MacOS. The fundamental problem with MacOS is the lack of touchscreen support.
    Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore.

    Samsung DeX is the correct way to go: you use the same OS in both modes, you share exactly the same files, the same apps and you have a perfect seamless switch between both. Android is a real capable OS because it is basically Linux.
    Since Office, Outlook and Teams for Android, you have everything you need in DeX, including real desktop sharing, connecting a second monitor, running all Android apps. Actually everything that people are excited about in this discussion. Oh, I forgot ... it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good.

    "it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good." => The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation.

    "Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore." => You mean IF macOS gets touch-screen support.  Apple has been pretty adamant of being against that idea.
    "The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation"

    You are wrong. It works just fine and is pretty mature. In our household it is “the computer” of two: one using Note 10+ and one using Tab S4.. I assume you have never worked with it, correct? You should not express your opinion on something if you don’t know it,
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 64 of 87
    digitoldigitol Posts: 268member
    OS X should have run on iPhone from the start. Despite what Apple says why they didn’t, i find those reasons to be such a BS weak response. Would be great if Apple did bring Mac os to the iphone, but i’m quite sure Apple Doesn’t have the technical chops or ability to pull that off. Apple is still a Toy company. 
    JamieLeeCurtis
  • Reply 65 of 87

    Just because they could run MacOS using an iPhone's hardware, doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is not about convergence at all. It is about either running iOS or MacOS. The fundamental problem with MacOS is the lack of touchscreen support.
    Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore.

    Samsung DeX is the correct way to go: you use the same OS in both modes, you share exactly the same files, the same apps and you have a perfect seamless switch between both. Android is a real capable OS because it is basically Linux.
    Since Office, Outlook and Teams for Android, you have everything you need in DeX, including real desktop sharing, connecting a second monitor, running all Android apps. Actually everything that people are excited about in this discussion. Oh, I forgot ... it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good.

    What you are forgetting iOS is a powerful OS as it is derived from MacOS/Unix. You can runs MS Office and Teams on iOS . So you could do the same with iOS in this paradigm. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 87

    Just because they could run MacOS using an iPhone's hardware, doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is not about convergence at all. It is about either running iOS or MacOS. The fundamental problem with MacOS is the lack of touchscreen support.
    Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore.

    Samsung DeX is the correct way to go: you use the same OS in both modes, you share exactly the same files, the same apps and you have a perfect seamless switch between both. Android is a real capable OS because it is basically Linux.
    Since Office, Outlook and Teams for Android, you have everything you need in DeX, including real desktop sharing, connecting a second monitor, running all Android apps. Actually everything that people are excited about in this discussion. Oh, I forgot ... it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good.

    "it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good." => The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation.

    "Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore." => You mean IF macOS gets touch-screen support.  Apple has been pretty adamant of being against that idea.
    "The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation"

    You are wrong. It works just fine and is pretty mature. In our household it is “the computer” of two: one using Note 10+ and one using Tab S4.. I assume you have never worked with it, correct? You should not express your opinion on something if you don’t know it,
    I like the Dec concept the problem is Android apps are. It that good.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 87
    BrittoBritto Posts: 1member
    Would love this to work with my old iMac that doesn't support the latest OS updates. 
    I hate the idea of such a great monitor going to waste.
    patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 87
    razmatazrazmataz Posts: 24member

    I think this could be done quicker than we think now that MacOS runs on ARM. The real problem that Apple may have to restrict this in a way that still makes you want to buy more than one device. The problem is solved in good part since you can already carry a thumbdrive around with MacOS Sierra (or later) and boot up on any device that supports it (I've never done it myself). Now that MacOS runs on ARM, allow any iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch to allow the said thumbdrive. Or alternatively allow the internal disk to act as the external drive. It just won't happen until the iDevices are updated to have a USB-C port (this should have happened already) and the processor has all the hooks that Apple is putting in for MacOS. As for the RAM, I think an iPad could have a lot more already and it won't be long that an iPhone will be able to have enough for most desk warriors.

    Otherwise this seems to introduce an iPhone in the path of something that may not require one. And do both devices be on the same user account? Could I borrow someone else phone a plug in a thumbdrive instead?

    And while we're at it, make sure I can run both the phone and the Mac OS at the same time. But then a lot of people that own an iPhone and a Mac would suddenly only need an iPhone and a cheap monitor. So they might restrict that. This is where an OS like Linux shines, no restrictions.

     


  • Reply 69 of 87
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,349member

    Just because they could run MacOS using an iPhone's hardware, doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is not about convergence at all. It is about either running iOS or MacOS. The fundamental problem with MacOS is the lack of touchscreen support.
    Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore.

    Samsung DeX is the correct way to go: you use the same OS in both modes, you share exactly the same files, the same apps and you have a perfect seamless switch between both. Android is a real capable OS because it is basically Linux.
    Since Office, Outlook and Teams for Android, you have everything you need in DeX, including real desktop sharing, connecting a second monitor, running all Android apps. Actually everything that people are excited about in this discussion. Oh, I forgot ... it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good.

    "it is from Samsung and therefore Apple fans cannot admit that it is good." => The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation.

    "Once MacOS gets touchscreen support, you won't need iOS anymore." => You mean IF macOS gets touch-screen support.  Apple has been pretty adamant of being against that idea.
    "The problem with Dex isn't that it's from Samsung, it's that it's a s**t implementation"

    You are wrong. It works just fine and is pretty mature. In our household it is “the computer” of two: one using Note 10+ and one using Tab S4.. I assume you have never worked with it, correct? You should not express your opinion on something if you don’t know it,

    Stop lying. I’ve used Dex on a Note 10 and it’s garbage. Lousy Android Apps are even worse when you try and use them on a larger screen. There are a few that work good, but the majority don’t.

    Then we have Linux on Dex, which was supposed to be the developers dream - until Samsung canceled it.

    Only a rabid Android fan could ever claim Dex works as good as you claim. 
    cflcardsfan80watto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 87
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,985member
    Beats said:
    mike1 said:
    muaddib said:
    The problem I see is one of RAM.  iPhones have a relatively small amount of ram because of energy use, and Macs the more ram the better.
    I don't see how this is limitation is overcome.

    Really?! Maybe a docking station that includes the extra ports needed to connect a monitor, external hard drives and other devices that also bumps up the RAM and maybe adds a graphic card.

    You're thinking too Windows.

    I don't see a nerdy dock with ports and tangled wires. I see a seamless wireless connection that allows users to collaborate devices. Example: you're running Photoshop on an iMac but wanna use a stylus. Turn on your iPad and start drawing. No need to download apps or open programs. That easy. You've been working on a song on your iPhone, turn on your iMac and run Logic, finish it there. Easy.

    Think Continuity on steroids.
    Never said anything about wires. I just mentioned a dock of some sort that added memory and maybe a graphics chip. BT keyboards are wireless. Maybe a monitor could be made wireless with a variation of Airplay. A couple of Thunderbolt and a USB C port is certainly not thinking too Windows. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 87
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,851member
    mike1 said:
    Beats said:
    mike1 said:
    muaddib said:
    The problem I see is one of RAM.  iPhones have a relatively small amount of ram because of energy use, and Macs the more ram the better.
    I don't see how this is limitation is overcome.

    Really?! Maybe a docking station that includes the extra ports needed to connect a monitor, external hard drives and other devices that also bumps up the RAM and maybe adds a graphic card.

    You're thinking too Windows.

    I don't see a nerdy dock with ports and tangled wires. I see a seamless wireless connection that allows users to collaborate devices. Example: you're running Photoshop on an iMac but wanna use a stylus. Turn on your iPad and start drawing. No need to download apps or open programs. That easy. You've been working on a song on your iPhone, turn on your iMac and run Logic, finish it there. Easy.

    Think Continuity on steroids.
    Never said anything about wires. I just mentioned a dock of some sort that added memory and maybe a graphics chip. BT keyboards are wireless. Maybe a monitor could be made wireless with a variation of Airplay. A couple of Thunderbolt and a USB C port is certainly not thinking too Windows. 

    At which point the device has enough infrastructure to be the thin client in its own right. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 87
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    mattinoz said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    muaddib said:
    The problem I see is one of RAM.  iPhones have a relatively small amount of ram because of energy use, and Macs the more ram the better.
    I don't see how this is limitation is overcome.
    By putting the memory in the terminal and using the terminal's power supply to run the phone while it's in docked mode. The phone supplies the processor, the OS and the apps. Everything is linked through a smart connector on the edge of the phone. Once connected, the whole setup runs as one integrated unit.


    Doesn't that mean the memory is bandwidth constrained by how much data the GPU is pushing to the screen?

    What would be interesting to know is if AppleSilicon can "eGPU" another AppleSilicon instance. If they can cluster together. then the cable only needs to handle crosstalk between the two chips. The second chip could then be in the terminal and make the terminal standalone useful as a low end Mac or as host for remote desktops or could be a dongle cable. Either way you move screen bandwidth out of the way.

    Yes, running across the wire would impact performance, but the reason they’re trying this out (and I’m sure they’re trying this out) is because they know they now have complete control of the whole architecture, and can develop it to suit there own requirements which includes proprietary buses and connectors for pushing power and data. 

    This is not something they’re going to release tomorrow (if ever). It’ll be years until they have a way to do it before they decide it can be done. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 73 of 87
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    bonobob said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    muaddib said:
    The problem I see is one of RAM.  iPhones have a relatively small amount of ram because of energy use, and Macs the more ram the better.
    I don't see how this is limitation is overcome.
    By putting the memory in the terminal and using the terminal's power supply to run the phone while it's in docked mode. The phone supplies the processor, the OS and the apps. Everything is linked through a smart connector on the edge of the phone. Once connected, the whole setup runs as one integrated unit.

    That would put the memory too far away from the CPU for good performance.  Better to put it all in the phone, and power down the “excess” when in iOS mode. 


    That would make the phone prohibitively expensive and impossible to cool. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 87
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    auxio said:
    k2kw said:
    auxio said:
    This would be amazing.  Imagine having everything you need in a single device which fits in your pocket.  It's iOS when you're out and about and mostly need communication functionality, then it's full blown macOS when you're at your desk working.  Perfect.
    Great copy Samsung Dex!!
    Except that it doesn't run a joke for an OS.  I've worked with Chromebooks before and no thanks!
    You have no idea what you are talking about! Samsung Dex has nothing to do with Chromebooks. It is Android. And unlike iOS, Android is Linux and not a joke OS.
    Actually, it’s you who doesn’t know anything about iOS. It’s derived from MacOS which is a Unix-based operating system. 

    And what we’re talking about is something better than running Android apps on a screen they weren’t designed for. We’re talking about a device that can switch between different types of the same app depending on where they’re running. 

    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 87
    There are some practical advantages to this. Notably being able to use an iPhone for presentations or as a fallback device with a monitor and/or keyboard/trackpad/mouse. The iPad on the other hand could be used as a full blown computer with a keyboard/trackpad/mouse.

    What I don't see is the iPhone/iPad with macOS being sold as a product, rather as another tool in the toolkit like sidecar for developers, administrators and consumers with certain technical needs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 87
    Well Gosh Darn It, to all you throwbacks looking at great ideas poorly implemented welcome to Microsoft Everywhere, Atrix, and various Samsung VaporWare.  Disparate OSs, disparate hardware, cloned interfaces, no developers.  As for chromebooks, great for word processing, but then again so's a low end ipad - no, mobile/web apps running in a browser do not a workhorse make.  The fact that I can imagine a flying car (especially when somebody else has already had the idea) doesn't mean I can build it.

    MacOS is iPadOS is iOS, just tweaked differently.  If they go to a unified hardware platform (about time!) then there's no reason I couldn't run photoshop from my mobile.  Would it be slower? sure, at least today.  Could I get a crapload of work done from it, that I couldn't using the iVersion of everything?  Absolutely.  And look at it 2-5 years from now.  Phones will have the same ram that desktops do, or close enough.  I would literally kill for an iPad that could run MacOS, it would double my productivity by allowing to work on the road without schlepping a macbook pro.  I could shoot video on my phone effectively, and edit it effectively in Final Cut.... on the same device, natively, with no crashes or slowdowns = game changer (do that on android or a chromebook).  And they already have the developers and software, unlike everybody else, where everything needs to be re-written from the ground up.

    The scenario would be:  one machine ==> macbook Pro, two machines => iMac/macbookpro + iPad/iPhone.  The limitations would be human (need a large good quality  screen and keyboard in one case, and something very portable in the other).  This would fulfill the promise Newton started so many years ago.

    Having said all this, it's still apple, and they'd be cannibalizing their own markets - it makes better financial sense to keep things separate. 

    Can I keep wishing?  Now, as long as they don't just triple it in price and milk the users from every penny they have............
    muthuk_vanalingampatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 87
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    The Mac OS UI is clearly not suitable for the small screen of the iPhone. Your fingers are too big. The text is too small. It just doesn't work. This has nothing to do with technical limitations or anything like that. Or ideology. It won't work, so they won't do it.. Apple is clearly diversifying their OS lines, not the opposite. 


    edited July 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 87
    I think they more want to copy say the surface book.  Once you go all in on arm you can have a macbook pro with the screen being an Ipad and then a macbook like keyboard dock. when docked into the keyboard you get full blown macos but when taken out you get ipad os . Works pretty well with the surface book.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 87
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:

    KITA said:



    Look at all those wires!  And notice how literally the only things running there are browsers.  That's ChromeOS in a nutshell: if it doesn't run in a browser (so that Google can build a profile of everything you do), it doesn't run.
    And all because advertisers (including Apple BTW) want to be sure that the money they spend is going to the right market. For example, no sense in presenting you with panty ads if you're a male, and besides you'd just get them in a wad anyway. :)
    I just want real apps.  I had to use Google Slides for my son's homework at the end of the school year and god it was horrible.  The text cursor was about an inch below the text selection box and I was constantly having to resize/reformat to get it where I wanted it (while struggling to click in the right spot to actually select it).  My son was literally in tears because he was so frustrated (as was I).  This is the problem when you try to build a complex app using half-baked web technologies.

    I'll gladly pay for an app which saves me time/headache because it was designed to do a few things well rather than shoehorning everything in a browser designed to do everything half-*ssed.

    That is exactly what prompted my grandson to abandon MacOS and go 100% Windows 10   He tried using Google Slides on his Mac and it was a mess.   He put his MacBook away, pulled out his mom's crappy HP and completed the assignment with almost no problems.  Afterwards he refused to use the MacBook.  It became a dust collector.

    Rather than sell the very new MacBook I installed WIndows 10 via BootCamp and he has been using it exclusively and has had no problems with it
  • Reply 80 of 87
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Forget the technical arguments against it -- Apple can overcome those.
    Forget the ideological arguments against it -- Apple is once again challenging the rules on what is allowed to do what.

    If it shows itself to have merit, to make people's lives better, Apple will make it happen.
    And, increasingly, it is making sense:   People are using their phones more and more and their laptops less and less -- but they still need them for isolated activities.   So, occasionally dropping a phone into a dock and making it a MacBook / Laptop solves their problem
    muthuk_vanalingam
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