New York Times leaves Apple News over a lack of reader connection

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 89
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,371member
    rain22 said:
    chasm said:
    palmlag said:
    Readership down because they are ultra left mouth piece press

    Ah, the ignorant American turns up right on cue.

    A) You haven't got the FAINTEST idea of what "ultra left" actually means.
    B) The NYT is barely rated as ever-so-slightly left, but that's only because they continue to print fact-based articles.

    😆😆😆😆😆😆 They are an over-the-top leftist political rag with zero credibility in journalism. If they are so fact based, why do they have to have a full page spread on retractions for pretty much every article through the week? You have zero clue about journalism. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
    Yes, this opinion is an example of the popular belief that everything is just opinion. Actual journalism has always carried the practice of publishing corrections and retractions. It shouldn't be surprising that even the best journalists are still humans and therefore fallible. Despite fact-checkers and editors going over material before it's published, mistakes can still be found afterwards. So corrections and retractions are published to get things right. This is where responsibility meets the right to a free press.

    There are plenty of examples of popular "news" sources that freely mix news and opinions and rarely admit error or make corrections. Worse, many of these outlets promulgate popular political narratives of the day that can be startlingly disjointed from information and narratives previously promoted by the same outlets, with no acknowledgment that there are any inconsistencies, even though both narratives can't be true. These outlets cater to loyal readers/listeners/viewers whose interests are primarily tribal and so they are unaffected by the cognitive dissonance inherent in their favored infotainment sources.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 62 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I never use Apple news. But I can say the New York Times is an absolute disaster. The paper has always been biased, but they at least tried to offer a veneer of accountability and impartiality in the past. The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  

    This decision is obviously about money. “Reader engagement” and “relationship with our readers “are just terms for “we weren’t making any money from it.”  

    Yeh, the far right thinks that anything not far right is "propaganda and fake news".    LOL..

    And, how and why would the NY Times help the New England Patriots spy on another team?   Ridiculous!
    Similarly, the far left thinks anything that's not as far left as them is extreme right.

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-times/



    Yes, there are a handful of far left publications that few have ever heard of.   That's true.
    What isn't true is that facts and truth are "left wing conspiracy theories" as your far right propaganda outlets tell you to believe.
    tommikele
  • Reply 63 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:

    I have been wondering about the future of News -- and especially New+.

    The NYTs was never part of News+ so, at best, we got the few articles they decided to share -- and the rest were teasers that hit a paywall if you tried to read them.

    Probably the only reputable national paper that's part of News+ is the Wall Street Journal -- and even there is a highly cut down version of the real paper.   Originally you could see all the articles by searching for the ones not explicitly shown -- but soon they removed that abilitiy too.

    I think Apple needs to put some thought into this whole project -- or at least into their News+ which is mostly just magazines...
    I seem to be the only one who quite likes Apple News. News is divisive, no matter what articles are chosen people will claim there is a bias one way or the other. I haven't noticed any real bias, though I have blocked the far left/right sources. I have access to Apple News+ too via a family member but don't subscribe myself, but apart from the Times (in the UK here) I never use the + part. However, I know Apple has a terrible habit of introducing something as the Next Big Thing™ and then abandoning it for years (Siri, Mac Pro, Apple Books etc.) so let's hope they don't assign this to the bin.

    LOL...  No, propaganda is devisive.   That's its job:   Demonize one side and radicalize the other.
    Facts and truth are not divisive -- except to those who have already swallowed the propaganda. 

    And, for the false claim that everything is biased:  That's just one of the main excuses that right uses when they get busted:  "Well, they ALL do it!"   LOL...  Poor, pititfull, deluded creatures....


    spheric
  • Reply 64 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    AppleZulu said:
    davgreg said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I never use Apple news. But I can say the New York Times is an absolute disaster. The paper has always been biased, but they at least tried to offer a veneer of accountability and impartiality in the past. The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  

    This decision is obviously about money. “Reader engagement” and “relationship with our readers “are just terms for “we weren’t making any money from it.”  
    The NYT has seen a massive spike in digital subscribers during the Trump administration and is by all public accounts doing well. They experienced a near death financial crisis as they transitioned to a paywall as subscribers dropped and ad revenue went away.

    The paper went through multiple rounds of buy outs and layoffs as they streamlined the staff and rationalized the editorial process. They also sold off other assets-like TV stations to get the cash needed to make the transition. That process has largely been completed.

    I agree that there is a bias problem in the political coverage and on the opinion pages. It is neither Democratic or Republican, but rather a corporatist centrist viewpoint that manages to aggravate progressives and conservatives equally. They are just as hostile to Bernie Sanders as they are to Trump.

    They are also heavy handed in comment moderation. Comments too negative to their viewpoint get posted, but often many hours to days later- preventing them from being seen by most readers. Comments that follow the company line get posted almost immediately. Supposedly moderation is now mostly automated, so that is suspicious.

    The recent handling of the Tom Cotton op-Ed is also a problem. I disagree with my Senator on most things, but his voice as a Senator is important and worthy of the opinion page.
    Personally, one of the reasons I like Apple News is the lack of a comments section. Allowing reader comments to be appended to every news story is one of the biggest mistakes online news media have made in the internet age. It devalues the journalism above, and promotes the idea that random anonymous opinions are of equal or greater importance. (Yes, I am aware of the irony of writing this here.) A journalist can spend hours, days, weeks, or more working on a story, with the aid of original documentation, well-placed sources, fact-checkers and editors. All this is greatly diminished when an article is posted online and immediately appended by a commentariat that often doesn't read more than the headline before diving into the fray to take predictable but ill-informed positions. Many readers are then sucked into reading and/or participating he comment wars, with the actual journalism serving only as a highway marker pointing to the opinions below. This has led to fertile ground for politicians to dismiss journalism that they don't like as "fake news." Everybody thinks everything is just an opinion. On a secondary level, this also helps undermine things like science, because of the same inflated public valuation of opinion-based opinions. Rights come with responsibilities, and the ubiquitous appending of most journalism with reader comments has a tendency to promote an irresponsible approach to free speech. 

    Yeh, true...
    But there's another more important reason:   Every article published by mainstream media like CNBC on social is immediately, with minutes, flooded with comments from right wing trolls, bots and activists....   They are obviously sitting there waiting to attack anything and everything that doesn't support their agenda.   They're like any jihadist that way.

    It is only much later that you start to see posts from real humans with actual points to make.
  • Reply 65 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    TheNubi said:
     NYT makes a lot of money off of their subscription. Apple News probably added very little, combined with not sharing user info and taking a 30% cut, the NYT decided it wasn’t worth it as a business venture. 

    Apple News is one of those things Apple keeps pushing but only does a halfway good job. It maybe good for smaller publications, but the NYT can live without it. 
    I’ve seen the NYT devolve over several decades into a poorly sourced and poorly written rumor mill. Their reporting over the past 4-5 years has been a disaster. I think they must be teetering near bankruptcy because the Buzzfeed-level trash coming out of their publication isn’t going to keep intelligent readers.

    You mean it contradicts the propaganda you're used to seeing?   Reality has a way of doing that -- making the victims of propaganda uncomfortable.
    spheric
  • Reply 66 of 89
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,375member
    TheNubi said:
     NYT makes a lot of money off of their subscription. Apple News probably added very little, combined with not sharing user info and taking a 30% cut, the NYT decided it wasn’t worth it as a business venture. 

    Apple News is one of those things Apple keeps pushing but only does a halfway good job. It maybe good for smaller publications, but the NYT can live without it. 
    I’ve seen the NYT devolve over several decades into a poorly sourced and poorly written rumor mill. Their reporting over the past 4-5 years has been a disaster. I think they must be teetering near bankruptcy because the Buzzfeed-level trash coming out of their publication isn’t going to keep intelligent readers.

    You mean it contradicts the propaganda you're used to seeing?   Reality has a way of doing that -- making the victims of propaganda uncomfortable.
    You yourself seem very uncomfortable and agitated today now that you've mentioned it. You were so much more relaxed the past few days, up to now. 
    chemengin1cat52
  • Reply 67 of 89
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    palmlag said:
    Readership down because they are ultra left mouth piece press


    Ultra left is a huge problem but I'd not call them ethical anymore either.    In the end they are not really what would be called a trusted news source.
    SpamSandwichcat52
  • Reply 68 of 89
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sdw2001 said:
    The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  
    Citing a debunked conspiracy theory to back up your claim the NYT is “fake news”? Yeah, no. Wonder where you got that idea. 🤔 

    It is pretty clear that the NYT creates stories out of thin air.   Spygate, the Russian connection and many others got far more coverage than the fact deserved.    This is the problem with the NYT's, they often print total crap that they know is crap hoping that it sticks.
    SpamSandwichcat52
  • Reply 69 of 89
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    wizard69 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  
    Citing a debunked conspiracy theory to back up your claim the NYT is “fake news”? Yeah, no. Wonder where you got that idea. 🤔 

    It is pretty clear that the NYT creates stories out of thin air.   Spygate, the Russian connection and many others got far more coverage than the fact deserved.    This is the problem with the NYT's, they often print total crap that they know is crap hoping that it sticks.
    In addition, their newly released politically driven story about alleged targeting of US soldiers by Russia paying Afghanis should be considered a treasonous breach of national security.
    cat52
  • Reply 70 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gatorguy said:
    TheNubi said:
     NYT makes a lot of money off of their subscription. Apple News probably added very little, combined with not sharing user info and taking a 30% cut, the NYT decided it wasn’t worth it as a business venture. 

    Apple News is one of those things Apple keeps pushing but only does a halfway good job. It maybe good for smaller publications, but the NYT can live without it. 
    I’ve seen the NYT devolve over several decades into a poorly sourced and poorly written rumor mill. Their reporting over the past 4-5 years has been a disaster. I think they must be teetering near bankruptcy because the Buzzfeed-level trash coming out of their publication isn’t going to keep intelligent readers.

    You mean it contradicts the propaganda you're used to seeing?   Reality has a way of doing that -- making the victims of propaganda uncomfortable.
    You yourself seem very uncomfortable and agitated today now that you've mentioned it. You were so much more relaxed the past few days, up to now. 

    Agitated?  No...   Just busy refuting the usual right wing bullshit that's been flooding these forums of late.   So sad.
    tommikele
  • Reply 71 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    wizard69 said:
    palmlag said:
    Readership down because they are ultra left mouth piece press


    Ultra left is a huge problem but I'd not call them ethical anymore either.    In the end they are not really what would be called a trusted news source.

    Funny how the far right sees anything not far right as "Far Left" - or I see you've upgraded to "Ultra Left"!  
    But you are right that they cannot be trusted to regurgitate the nonsense coming from the right wing propaganda outlets.  Those silly boys from MSM actually report truth and facts!  Imagine!  How old fashioned!
    tommikele
  • Reply 72 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    wizard69 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  
    Citing a debunked conspiracy theory to back up your claim the NYT is “fake news”? Yeah, no. Wonder where you got that idea. 🤔 

    It is pretty clear that the NYT creates stories out of thin air.   Spygate, the Russian connection and many others got far more coverage than the fact deserved.    This is the problem with the NYT's, they often print total crap that they know is crap hoping that it sticks.

    The crap is the guy who knew about his partner in crime putting bounties on the heads of American soldiers and, not only looked the other way, but continued to suck up to the dictator doing it!   They used to call that a Traitor.
  • Reply 73 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    wizard69 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  
    Citing a debunked conspiracy theory to back up your claim the NYT is “fake news”? Yeah, no. Wonder where you got that idea. ߤ䦡mp;nbsp;

    It is pretty clear that the NYT creates stories out of thin air.   Spygate, the Russian connection and many others got far more coverage than the fact deserved.    This is the problem with the NYT's, they often print total crap that they know is crap hoping that it sticks.
    In addition, their newly released politically driven story about alleged targeting of US soldiers by Russia paying Afghanis should be considered a treasonous breach of national security.

    The National Security Advisor not only confirmed that it was true, he also confirmed that Trump knew about it a year ago and tried to sweep it under the rug.  
    But, that's not surprising:   it was his partner in crime who was paying the bounty.   Probably didn't want to embarrass the guy.  Or, maybe he knew that he was losing and needed the guy's help to screw with our election -- again.
    edited June 2020
  • Reply 74 of 89
    davesmalldavesmall Posts: 118member
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.
    cat52
  • Reply 75 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    davesmall said:
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.

    Truth and facts are only "leftist" to somebody brain washed by the right wing propaganda outlets.
    But they are terrified that people WILL somehow leave the cacoon and learn the truth.   The truth is their enemy. 
    tommikele
  • Reply 76 of 89
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,371member
    wizard69 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The opinion pages have now utterly infected the news room. They are 100% propaganda and fake news at this point.  Anyone who has researched it knows they played an integral part in the “spygate“ scandal.  
    Citing a debunked conspiracy theory to back up your claim the NYT is “fake news”? Yeah, no. Wonder where you got that idea. 🤔 

    It is pretty clear that the NYT creates stories out of thin air.   Spygate, the Russian connection and many others got far more coverage than the fact deserved.    This is the problem with the NYT's, they often print total crap that they know is crap hoping that it sticks.
    The “Russian connection” is not thin air. If you are a discerning adult capable at all of any sort of critical thought, ask yourself, why is it that the current President, whose fans love him for being willing to criticize and berate anyone and everyone, friend and foe alike, is only ever laudatory and utterly obsequious to Vladimir Putin? 

    Literally any other US President or politician, when presented with the suggestion that Russia was possibly paying bounties to kill US soldiers, would first and foremost react strongly to defend those service personnel. If there was doubt about the accusation, there would be a promise to investigate and “get to the bottom of it,” but absolutely first and foremost would be defense and support of military personnel. Not this president. His first reaction is to deny having been briefed on the subject, followed by deafening silence to this very moment, about protecting US military personnel. 

    So no, the NYT didn’t make this up out of thin air. And to stay on-topic, it’s unfortunate that they are no longer participating in the Apple News app.
    GeorgeBMactommikele
  • Reply 77 of 89
    davesmalldavesmall Posts: 118member
    davesmall said:
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.

    Truth and facts are only "leftist" to somebody brain washed by the right wing propaganda outlets.
    But they are terrified that people WILL somehow leave the cacoon and learn the truth.   The truth is their enemy. 
    Oh my George, I'm afraid you've ingested the Kool-Aid. 
    SpamSandwichcat52gatorguy
  • Reply 78 of 89
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    davesmall said:
    davesmall said:
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.

    Truth and facts are only "leftist" to somebody brain washed by the right wing propaganda outlets.
    But they are terrified that people WILL somehow leave the cacoon and learn the truth.   The truth is their enemy. 
    Oh my George, I'm afraid you've ingested the Kool-Aid. 
    GBMac actually thinks the media is right wing in the United States. Shocking.
    cat52
  • Reply 79 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    davesmall said:
    davesmall said:
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.

    Truth and facts are only "leftist" to somebody brain washed by the right wing propaganda outlets.
    But they are terrified that people WILL somehow leave the cacoon and learn the truth.   The truth is their enemy. 
    Oh my George, I'm afraid you've ingested the Kool-Aid. 

    Oh my Dave, I'm afraid that you can't tell truth from fiction.  Or possibly that you no longer care to tell the difference?    As Trump runs up towards 20,000 lies since taking office and the right wing propaganda channels back him regardless of the ridiculousness of the lie or how blatant and obvious it is, increasingly his cult is ceasing to care whether what they believe is true of not.   KellyAnne laid it out early on:   Alternative Facts have equal footing with Actual Facts.  
  • Reply 80 of 89
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    davesmall said:
    davesmall said:
    Good riddance! They only let you read the intro to an article before throwing up a toll gate.

    If you are foolish enough to pay then what you get is indoctrination into leftist views rather than objective news reporting. Bye, bye, NYT and please don't return. You won't be missed.

    Truth and facts are only "leftist" to somebody brain washed by the right wing propaganda outlets.
    But they are terrified that people WILL somehow leave the cacoon and learn the truth.   The truth is their enemy. 
    Oh my George, I'm afraid you've ingested the Kool-Aid. 
    GBMac actually thinks the media is right wing in the United States. Shocking.

    Sorry, but:  FauxNews and its sibling and progeny have one and only one purpose:   to spread and propagate right wing propaganda.  They have created an alternative reality and a cult following who are no longer tied to reality.   They have even successfully portrayed a traitorous president as a patriot -- and the fools believe!  (Or, when their heads are held under the faucet of reality tend to admit that they simply don't care anymore because it's "what my side believes".   Truth no longer has any meaning to them)
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