European advertisers critical of iOS 14 warning users about ad tracking

Posted:
in General Discussion
Marketing associations are concerned about the changes coming to iOS 14, and are complaining that Apple is ignoring the GDPR -- and users will be less likely to allow tracking.

Users will be asked to give permission app-by-app for ad tracking
Users will be asked to give permission app-by-app for ad tracking


A group of 16 European marketing and digital advertising associations have criticized Apple's iOS 14 and iPadOS 14 plans for increased privacy, which mean apps will have to ask extra permission from users before they can track them. In future, apps that want to do this will have to show a pop-up screen detailing asking the user to confirm they agree to such tracking.

According to Reuters, the group claims Apple's plans mean users will effectively have to be asked for permission twice. This is specifically an issue for European users, as they and their data are protected by the EU's GDPR rules.

Those users will see two permissions screens, but Apple is also allowing for more. As well as mandating its own pop-up for privacy permissions, Apple allows developers to display any number of explanatory screens first. It's really about making the choice to allow IDFA (Identifier for Advertisers) tracking be decided per app, instead of universally.

Nonetheless, members of the association are reportedly complaining that the required pop-up, and reportedly limited ways to customize it, mean there is "a high risk of user refusal."

Reuters says that an unspecified number of the marketing associations are backed by Facebook, and others by Google. As a whole, the 16 associations are also asserting that by implementing its iOS 14 plans, Apple is not adhering to established European rules for governing how the ad industry can or cannot track users.

Notably, Apple's own tool for measuring the effectiveness of advertising campaigns will not require user permission. However, Apple says that this system works with anonymous, aggregated data, rather than specific user details.

Advertisers fear a repeat of iOS's asking for permission to track location, which has seen very many users choose to block it
Advertisers fear a repeat of iOS's asking for permission to track location, which has seen very many users choose to block it


Apple's plans for iOS 14 are a continuation of tracking limitations it has previously introduced, including those in iOS 13, which were chiefly to do with apps tracking users in the background. According to Location Sciences, a location-verification research firm, which examined the first few weeks of iOS 13's impact, around 80% of users stopped all background tracking by apps.

However, apps that have adopted Apple's related Sign In With Apple privacy move have reported increased engagement from users. In iOS 14, sites will be able to convert logins to a Sign In With Apple one.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 63
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Let me be the first to say “too effing bad.”  Ad tracking is pervasive and a terrible invasion of privacy.  The advertisers are upset? Shocker.  
    williamlondoncaladanianelijahgrob53aderutteranantksundaramMplsPRayz2016agilealtitudedavgreg
  • Reply 2 of 63
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    sdw2001 said:
    Let me be the first to say “too effing bad.”  Ad tracking is pervasive and a terrible invasion of privacy.  The advertisers are upset? Shocker.  
    I couldn’t agree more. The very reasons they’re upset are the reasons I’m happy about this new feature in iOS 14. Thank you Apple for having the courage to do this.  
    elijahgaderutterRayz2016Anilu_777MisterKitOferjony0Beatsviclauyycmagman1979
  • Reply 3 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    Beatschasm
  • Reply 4 of 63
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,324member
    Boo, fucking, hoo hoo.
    davgregAnilu_777magman1979cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 63
    caladaniancaladanian Posts: 380member
    High risk of refusal. Og yeah! :smiley: 
    davgregAnilu_777williamlondonviclauyycmagman1979cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 63
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    crowley said:
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    Advertisers could check the user agent string and if it's an iOS 14 device, rely on the OS popup instead of their own annoying custom "will you accept our advertising schmutz", so then there's only one annoying popup. Obviously this could be a loophole for anti GDPR popup extensions (which don't work on Safari 13+, thanks Apple) but if you've gone far enough to install an extension you were never going to agree to the tracking in the first place. 
    caladanianRayz2016chasmsvanstromwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 63
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    People could also more universally use an ad/tracking blocking DNS server, or if you're a bit more savvy run Pihole.
    cornchip
  • Reply 8 of 63
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 404member
    You can please some of the people some of the time. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 63
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,931member
    crowley said:
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    The problem with GDPR is that it has become a generic approval, almost like the software terms of service that people just click and accept. Even if you don't, reading into every detail for every web site you visit become so time consuming and onerous that you just give up. Apple is calling out specific tracking activity that people may well not be aware of.

    I do find it ironic that it's the European marketers that are complaining. Besides, if people really were ok with the tracking based on their GDPR approval they'll just click 'yes,' right?
    Anilu_777viclauyycentropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 63
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    MplsP said:
    crowley said:
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    I do find it ironic that it's the European marketers that are complaining. Besides, if people really were ok with the tracking based on their GDPR approval they'll just click 'yes,' right?
    This is pretty much an admission by the advertisers that if given the chance, people will click no to tracking. What a terrible shame.
    Anilu_777MisterKitsphericviclauyycchasmmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 63
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,037member
    Maybe I missed it, but nowhere did I ever tell any of the clowns that I was up for digital stalking for their profit.

    I bought my device, pay for my internet access and content by subscription.  They can stick their whining where the sun does not shine.
    MisterKitDAalseththtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 63
    riverkoriverko Posts: 222member
    Being a consumer in EU - Advertisers never ask about tracking. They simply inform - we are tracking you. So my YES for Apple’s implementation. Let them complain... if they are complaining loud enough, someone from EU will take closer look on how they ignore the GDPR in general.
    Ofermuthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonviclauyycchasmFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 63
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    crowley said:
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    Then they should lobby the EU to fix the GDPR scheme because it's ridiculous. Every time you visit a website you have to go through a few page of checkboxes for every advertiser and click handler?

    Apple isn't the problem I'm afraid.
    williamlondonviclauyycentropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 63
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    davgreg said:
    Maybe I missed it, but nowhere did I ever tell any of the clowns that I was up for digital stalking for their profit.

    I bought my device, pay for my internet access and content by subscription.  They can stick their whining where the sun does not shine.
    Yup, that too.
    chasmwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 63
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    If you're asking for sympathy because your business model requires you to hide that you're doing something unsavoury, then I suggest you change your business model.
    williamlondonjony0viclauyycchasmmagman1979kurai_kagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 63
    pujones1pujones1 Posts: 222member
    Here’s a thought. Pay us for our data. Then you can sell it with our express consent. Everyone profits. There. Problem solved. Personally wouldn’t sell my data though.
    baconstangviclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 63
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    pujones1 said:
    Here’s a thought. Pay us for our data. Then you can sell it with our express consent. Everyone profits. There. Problem solved. Personally wouldn’t sell my data though.
    It’s a good idea, but they would argue that the “payment” is getting the app for free. 

    But some of them charge for the app and still sell your data. 
    rcfawilliamlondonsphericjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    From the article:

    "Notably, Apple's own tool for measuring the effectiveness of advertising campaigns will not require user permission. However, Apple says that this system works with anonymous, aggregated data, rather than specific user details."

    FWIW there are other ad placement companies doing the same thing, creating groups of anonymized Advertising ID numbers having similar demographics rather than specific identifiable users. This set of complaints would seem to be coming from some advertisers themselves who might be collecting personal user data and marketing to specific individuals, and from data aggregators who deal in buying and selling personal information.  What I'd be curious about is whether those outside companies who also "work(s) with anonymous, aggregated data, rather than specific user details"  are treated the same as first-party Apple with no permission from the user requested or required before permitting ad tracking as long as it ends up anonymized?
    viclauyyc
  • Reply 19 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    crowley said:
    I opened the thread expecting to tell advertisers to go boil their collective heads, but actually there's a reasonable point in there; if European advertisers already need to ask permission to comply with GDPR then it doesn't make much sense for Apple to ask for permission for using the phone's hardware to deliver what the user has already agreed to.  Not sure how you'd be able to combine the two in a user friendly way though.
    Then they should lobby the EU to fix the GDPR scheme because it's ridiculous. Every time you visit a website you have to go through a few page of checkboxes for every advertiser and click handler?

    Apple isn't the problem I'm afraid.
    I disagree entirely, and you're completely missing the point.
    williamlondonsphericavon b7
  • Reply 20 of 63
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    „[...]members of the association are reportedly complaining that the required pop-up, and reportedly limited ways to customize it, mean there is "a high risk of user refusal."

    Well, yeah! If there’s a high risk of refusal, it means the feature works as intended!
    All the GDRP compliant pop-ups are just designed for users to be tricked into consenting to be tracked.

    So boohoo! 

     
    williamlondonchasmwatto_cobra
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