Apple is still working on under-display optical Touch ID reader

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 37
    frantisekfrantisek Posts: 751member
    anome said:
    frantisek said:
    Not surprising. It can be would be great combination with Face ID or essential for iPhone SE 3. Then can not offer phone with thick bezels forever.
    I don't see why not. This whole edge-to-edge screen thing is getting kind of absurd. "Oh noes! There's a full 3mm of my device that doesn't light up! Whatever shall I do?"

    I am talking about bezels in SE 2020, up and down not on sides.
  • Reply 22 of 37
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Beats said:
    I was quite a fan of the ability to have my phone unlock as I was picking it up so that it would already be open by the time I laid eyes on it.

    Additionally, maybe this can pave the path for notchless iPhones.

    I mean Face ID is cool, but I would not miss it (I mean maybe I would miss Animoji) if the fingerprint scanner was put into the screen.




    WAIT WHAT?? You actually think Apple will remove FaceID?!!

    No. I think they’ll use both. And I think they’ll want a solution where you can put your finger anywhere on the screen. 

    They might even require a FaceID failure before allowing an attempt with a fingerprint. 

    It’s not like Apple to double up like this, but times are changing. 
    Seems dubious.  Apple were extolling the enhanced security of FaceId, so why would they compromise it by also allowing another, less secure method of authentication?  Alternatives mean there are alternative avenues of attack.  

    I think it's more likely that iPhones remain TouchId or FaceId, but not both.  Or if it's both, then you have to authenticate with both FaceId and TouchId to unlock the phone.  Though that seems user unfriendly, so I'd lean towards the first option, TouchId or FaceId but not both.
    edited July 2020
  • Reply 23 of 37
    matrix077matrix077 Posts: 868member
    crowley said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Beats said:
    I was quite a fan of the ability to have my phone unlock as I was picking it up so that it would already be open by the time I laid eyes on it.

    Additionally, maybe this can pave the path for notchless iPhones.

    I mean Face ID is cool, but I would not miss it (I mean maybe I would miss Animoji) if the fingerprint scanner was put into the screen.




    WAIT WHAT?? You actually think Apple will remove FaceID?!!

    No. I think they’ll use both. And I think they’ll want a solution where you can put your finger anywhere on the screen. 

    They might even require a FaceID failure before allowing an attempt with a fingerprint. 

    It’s not like Apple to double up like this, but times are changing. 
    Seems dubious.  Apple were extolling the enhanced security of FaceId, so why would they compromise it by also allowing another, less secure method of authentication?  Alternatives mean there are alternative avenues of attack.  

    I think it's more likely that iPhones remain TouchId or FaceId, but not both.  Or if it's both, then you have to authenticate with both FaceId and TouchId to unlock the phone.  Though that seems user unfriendly, so I'd lean towards the first option, TouchId or FaceId but not both.
    He already gave you the reason. Face mask. I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. This TouchID in addition to FaceID will be a boon, to me and to hundred of millions iPhone users in Asia. 
    edited July 2020 fastasleep
  • Reply 24 of 37
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    matrix077 said:
    crowley said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Beats said:
    I was quite a fan of the ability to have my phone unlock as I was picking it up so that it would already be open by the time I laid eyes on it.

    Additionally, maybe this can pave the path for notchless iPhones.

    I mean Face ID is cool, but I would not miss it (I mean maybe I would miss Animoji) if the fingerprint scanner was put into the screen.




    WAIT WHAT?? You actually think Apple will remove FaceID?!!

    No. I think they’ll use both. And I think they’ll want a solution where you can put your finger anywhere on the screen. 

    They might even require a FaceID failure before allowing an attempt with a fingerprint. 

    It’s not like Apple to double up like this, but times are changing. 
    Seems dubious.  Apple were extolling the enhanced security of FaceId, so why would they compromise it by also allowing another, less secure method of authentication?  Alternatives mean there are alternative avenues of attack.  

    I think it's more likely that iPhones remain TouchId or FaceId, but not both.  Or if it's both, then you have to authenticate with both FaceId and TouchId to unlock the phone.  Though that seems user unfriendly, so I'd lean towards the first option, TouchId or FaceId but not both.
    He already gave you the reason. Face mask. I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. This TouchID in addition to FaceID will be a boon, to me and to hundred of millions iPhone users in Asia. 
    There's something that doesn't sit quite right about a solution where when the most secure verification method doesn't work is to use a less secure verification method.  I think in that situation FaceId becomes basically meaningless, so you may as well just have TouchId, especially since TouchId always seemed to me to be faster and more flexible (phone in landscape, or on a table or whatnot).

    I guess if you live a life where half the time FaceId works and is better, and the other half TouchId works and is better, then maybe, but I imagine most people are going to predominantly come down heavily on one side or the other.  I could be wrong of course.
  • Reply 25 of 37
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,322member
    ralphie said:
    Late to the game. 
    lol. no. not late to the game on actually secure and reliable biometric authentication. the asian knockoffs can still be fooled with printed photos, right?
    edited July 2020
  • Reply 26 of 37
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,501member
    ralphie said:
    Late to the game. 
    lol. no. not late to the game on actually secure and reliable biometric authentication. the asian knockoffs can still be fooled with printed photos, right?
    Not when security is required. But you've known that all along. 

    Remember Face Unlock predates FaceID and is still around with exactly the same use case.

    Nothing has changed there. 

  • Reply 27 of 37
    LeoMCLeoMC Posts: 84member
    matrix077 said:
    I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. 
    We spend a lot of money to keep out environment clean so that we don't have to wear masks when we go out; maybe you should do to instead of endanger your health by wearing masks.
  • Reply 28 of 37
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,501member
    LeoMC said:
    matrix077 said:
    I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. 
    We spend a lot of money to keep out environment clean so that we don't have to wear masks when we go out; maybe you should do to instead of endanger your health by wearing masks.
    With COVID-19 still a threat, many areas require wearing a mask. It is obligatory in many cases where I live even though the air is fresh and clean. 
    fastasleepmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 37
    Does this hint to a realization that iPhone 12 will not have Touch ID, since they are still developing it? I saw rumors a while back that Touch ID will be reintroduced to the iPhone 12.

     I’m trying to decide whether to get the 12 or an SE, and I really want Touch ID, as Face ID apparently does not work with masks.
  • Reply 30 of 37
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,322member
    avon b7 said:
    ralphie said:
    Late to the game. 
    lol. no. not late to the game on actually secure and reliable biometric authentication. the asian knockoffs can still be fooled with printed photos, right?
    Not when security is required. But you've known that all along. 

    Remember Face Unlock predates FaceID and is still around with exactly the same use case.

    Nothing has changed there. 

    If your chinese knockoffs can be fooled with a photo, under any circumstances, requiring them to not be a viable authentication metric, then they suck. Period. Fail. Try again. 
  • Reply 31 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Does this hint to a realization that iPhone 12 will not have Touch ID, since they are still developing it? I saw rumors a while back that Touch ID will be reintroduced to the iPhone 12.

     I’m trying to decide whether to get the 12 or an SE, and I really want Touch ID, as Face ID apparently does not work with masks.
    Nothing apparent about it. It definitely doesn’t work with masks. If it detects you’re wearing one then it asks for passcode immediately. 
  • Reply 32 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    crowley said:
    matrix077 said:
    crowley said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Beats said:
    I was quite a fan of the ability to have my phone unlock as I was picking it up so that it would already be open by the time I laid eyes on it.

    Additionally, maybe this can pave the path for notchless iPhones.

    I mean Face ID is cool, but I would not miss it (I mean maybe I would miss Animoji) if the fingerprint scanner was put into the screen.




    WAIT WHAT?? You actually think Apple will remove FaceID?!!

    No. I think they’ll use both. And I think they’ll want a solution where you can put your finger anywhere on the screen. 

    They might even require a FaceID failure before allowing an attempt with a fingerprint. 

    It’s not like Apple to double up like this, but times are changing. 
    Seems dubious.  Apple were extolling the enhanced security of FaceId, so why would they compromise it by also allowing another, less secure method of authentication?  Alternatives mean there are alternative avenues of attack.  

    I think it's more likely that iPhones remain TouchId or FaceId, but not both.  Or if it's both, then you have to authenticate with both FaceId and TouchId to unlock the phone.  Though that seems user unfriendly, so I'd lean towards the first option, TouchId or FaceId but not both.
    He already gave you the reason. Face mask. I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. This TouchID in addition to FaceID will be a boon, to me and to hundred of millions iPhone users in Asia. 
    There's something that doesn't sit quite right about a solution where when the most secure verification method doesn't work is to use a less secure verification method.  I think in that situation FaceId becomes basically meaningless, so you may as well just have TouchId, especially since TouchId always seemed to me to be faster and more flexible (phone in landscape, or on a table or whatnot).

    I guess if you live a life where half the time FaceId works and is better, and the other half TouchId works and is better, then maybe, but I imagine most people are going to predominantly come down heavily on one side or the other.  I could be wrong of course.
    Well, at the moment it defaults to the least secure and least convenient of the three: asking for a passcode. If users wearing masks can’t use FaceID then they’ll resort to 4-digit passcodes. If FaceID doesn’t work then TouchID is the better fallback. 
  • Reply 33 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    LeoMC said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    This won’t be the last pandemic 

    People won't suddenly begin to wear masks.
    Rayz2016 said:
    They don’t need a dedicated finger sensor for that. 
    We don't know that the patent is for a fingerprint sensor or a sensor embedded in the display that senses the approach of an object like a hand.

    They will wear masks if it’s the law, and in many countries it already is, for the duration of the pandemic anyway. 

    And yes, we know the patent is for a fingerprint reader because if you read the article, the patent is entitled “Optical Fingerprint Detection System” which sounds like a fingerprint detection system to me. Besides, if they just wanted to detect an approaching hand then they could do that with the existing camera array.
     


  • Reply 34 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    LeoMC said:
    matrix077 said:
    I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. 
    We spend a lot of money to keep out environment clean so that we don't have to wear masks when we go out; maybe you should do to instead of endanger your health by wearing masks.
    Actually the reason that Asians where face masks is courtesy. If you have a cold then it’s polite to wear a mask so you don’t spread it to anyone else. 
  • Reply 35 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    avon b7 said:
    LeoMC said:
    avon b7 said:
    LeoMC said:
    matrix077 said:
    I have to wear face mask every time I’m going out. 
    We spend a lot of money to keep out environment clean so that we don't have to wear masks when we go out; maybe you should do to instead of endanger your health by wearing masks.
    With COVID-19 still a threat, many areas require wearing a mask. It is obligatory in many cases where I live even though the air is fresh and clean. 
    SARS-CoV-2 transmission outside is non-existent.
    But laws are laws. Transmission is not non-existent outside if people cannot maintain a safe distance. My local population will balloon during this month and next. The promenade will be packed and impossible to maintain a safe distance while out walking. Hence the requirement to wear masks outside in such circumstances. 
    Expect localised spikes now that Cummings has opened the pubs.  
  • Reply 36 of 37
    Beats said:
    I was quite a fan of the ability to have my phone unlock as I was picking it up so that it would already be open by the time I laid eyes on it.

    Additionally, maybe this can pave the path for notchless iPhones.

    I mean Face ID is cool, but I would not miss it (I mean maybe I would miss Animoji) if the fingerprint scanner was put into the screen.




    WAIT WHAT?? You actually think Apple will remove FaceID?!!

    They did remove Touch ID...

    Not too much of a stretch. While I am most likely leaning towards apple using both Face ID and Touch ID together, I was just weighing the pros of removing Face ID from a design perspective. Things such as full screen  displays. No notches. etc. 

  • Reply 37 of 37
    hatterhatter Posts: 1member
    LeoMC said:
    Fingerprint scanner makes no sense...
    Maybe the patent is for an AI-related sensor that senses the presence and fires up the Face ID, unlocking the phone, even before one reaches for the device.
    That's the stuff Apple is (should be) thinking about, not resurrecting ancient features.
    Ancient ?  Yeah, face ID is just the thing for the modern world, when 2020 and beyond says cover your face.  Plus, I (and enough others) don't want to have to look at my phone in the right way to unlock it, don't even really want that camera uncovered.  ApplePay seems to be th most common case for people not wanting to have to hodl the phone up before paying, but unlocking when in a dark room, and keeping the light away from others is one for me, and also for going to camera/video without children/pets/whoever getting distracted from what they're doing because you want to capture what they're doing without spoiling the moment.
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