FU, Apple. This is the stuff that is going to drive me back to PC's after a 12-year run and tens of thousands of dollars donated to your organization.
I don’t think PCs are the answer. I’ve been reading up on the latest Linux versions for when my 2012.5 Retina Macbook Pro is no longer serviced. I also dumped my iPhone 7 for my wifes 6S+ until it dies. Then I go Galaxy or LG. Thinking you’re locked into an ecosystem is a lack of rational thought.
Watch some of the other videos from Louis Rossmann, including one about Apple's T2 chip.
His video about the T2 in particular has a surprising amount of technical inaccuracy.
Among other things, he says the data is unrecoverable. The T2 is connected to one of the USB-C ports, and a data retrieval tool exists. It boots the T2 in DFU mode, formats an external drive, and copies all the data to that external drive. If the T2 itself isn't deeply faulty, the data can absolutely be recovered.
If Apple wasn't screwing users with $1000+ repair jobs when you can bring it someplace and they'll fix it for $100 or even FREE in some cases as it's a simple fix and yet Apple says you need to replace all this stuff for whatever reason, Ya, Right to Repair should be the rule. There is no need for Apple to do this with battery's. This is Apple just trying to scare people and forced to go to Apple. You can tell this when you use even Apple's own batteries and it still does this message.
Stop with the excuses. This is why Apple has been getting away with locking their stuff down just so only THEY can fix things. Or really up sell you to new hardware. How about you buy a new car, it's time to replace the tires, you go to a 3rd party tire shop, get new tires put on, start to drive away and a Warning Service light pops up on the dash? Oh no!!! Find out you have to go back to the Ford Dealer Ship, and get Official Ford Tires that are keyed for your car. If you took those FORD tires and put them on Another Ford, the same warning message would pop up. This is what Apple is doing!!!! Wake up.
Watch some of the other videos from Louis Rossmann, including one about Apple's T2 chip.
Thanks for the info! Very good. One question I can ask is how did two different generations of Apple TV stop working (one bricked, one no audio) immediately after software updates about a year apart? In both cases, the Apple Genius Bar said they couldn’t/wouldn’t load the older software and said “too bad, buy a new one”. So I did, and after the second one I can say the new Amazon Fire TV Cube is a terrific device!
PART of the trouble here is, in fact, the fault of Apple: While they "encourage" people to get repairs & upgrades done at an authorized center they neither enforce the policy nor (critically) publicize it up front. Instead they use a sorta passive - aggressive approach where, when there is a problem they say: "See, you didn't follow directions. It is your fault".
I think Apple and its customers would be best served by making it very clear up front that, while they won't block you from getting third party repairs that all bets, warranties, guarantees, assurances and everything is gone if you do. They need to do that BEFORE somebody buys an Apple product, not after they get the third party repair that impacts their product.
(I don't mean to absolve the person of responsibility for their actions. But that we will continue to have these debates and discussions until Apple makes their policy very clear UP FRONT.)
Apple can't do that, because it would be against the law. Warranties are covered by the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. What you're advocating is expressly forbidden. Apple can only insist on OEM or Authorized repair/parts if 1. They are offering the repair for free under warranty or 2. They can prove the repair can only be done with certified parts or via certified tech.
"The Act requires manufacturers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with clear and detailed information about warranty coverage."
So how does that block Apple from doing just that: "provide consumers with clear and detailed information"? If you mean voiding the warranty, Apple and a bunch of other companies already do just that if you break their rules.
I don't think publications like AppleInsider should be using slang or shortcut language. The phone is not the "cell". A "cell phone" communicates within cells, which are defined by the radio towers. The word "cell" refers to the zones around towers. You move from one "cell" to another as you travel.
From Wikipedia...
The network is distributed over land areas called "cells", each served by at least one fixed-location transceiver, but more normally, three cell sites or base transceiver stations. These base stations provide the cell with the network coverage which can be used for transmission of voice, data, and other types of content. A cell typically uses a different set of frequencies from neighbouring cells, to avoid interference and provide guaranteed service quality within each cell.[1]
Now, on topic, regarding this battery message, I think Apple is handling it gracefully. Third-party parts can be all over the map in terms of quality. Some people may choose to interpret this as Apple pushing consumers to keep buying their own batteries, but the message is not "in your face", and the device is not disabled in any way. It's just information providing consumers with education. The third-party battery may in fact be better than one that Apple supplies.
FU, Apple. This is the stuff that is going to drive me back to PC's after a 12-year run and tens of thousands of dollars donated to your organization.
Just stop to think for a moment...would you have any grounds to sue Ford after retrofitting a Ford you purchased brand new with a Jaguar XJ12 engine which, when powered up with your foot on the accelerator, caused the chassis to separate from the bodywork?
PART of the trouble here is, in fact, the fault of Apple: While they "encourage" people to get repairs & upgrades done at an authorized center they neither enforce the policy nor (critically) publicize it up front. Instead they use a sorta passive - aggressive approach where, when there is a problem they say: "See, you didn't follow directions. It is your fault".
I think Apple and its customers would be best served by making it very clear up front that, while they won't block you from getting third party repairs that all bets, warranties, guarantees, assurances and everything is gone if you do. They need to do that BEFORE somebody buys an Apple product, not after they get the third party repair that impacts their product.
(I don't mean to absolve the person of responsibility for their actions. But that we will continue to have these debates and discussions until Apple makes their policy very clear UP FRONT.)
Apple can't do that, because it would be against the law. Warranties are covered by the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. What you're advocating is expressly forbidden. Apple can only insist on OEM or Authorized repair/parts if 1. They are offering the repair for free under warranty or 2. They can prove the repair can only be done with certified parts or via certified tech.
"The Act requires manufacturers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with clear and detailed information about warranty coverage."
So how does that block Apple from doing just that: "provide consumers with clear and detailed information"? If you mean voiding the warranty, Apple and a bunch of other companies already do just that if you break their rules.
A key component of the Act is : Warrantors cannot require that only OEM parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.
Apple can't tie warranty validity to using 1st party or authorized parts and service. That would be a tie-in.
I am on Apple side here. Third-party batteries blowing up iPhones and tarnishing brand. This right to repair is a two way stick. One side is good for users because third-party replacements parts are cheap, but unfortunate for Apple because once something goes wrong it’s Apple’s fault.
Here’s a thought though, completely inverting your premise: It is understood Apple is blamed for anything that goes wrong, if an Apple OR third party battery explodes. Now, assuming the battery monitor actually provides useful information about a battery’s condition, letting a third party battery go unmonitored is more likely to let a battery explode with no advance warning. Had Apple let the user monitor the battery he may have been able to remove it/have it removed prior to an explosion that will cause Apple, in this circumstance, well deserved blame for a battery exploding, no?
I don't think publications like AppleInsider should be using slang or shortcut language. The phone is not the "cell". A "cell phone" communicates within cells, which are defined by the radio towers. The word "cell" refers to the zones around towers. You move from one "cell" to another as you travel.
From Wikipedia...
The network is distributed over land areas called "cells", each served by at least one fixed-location transceiver, but more normally, three cell sites or base transceiver stations. These base stations provide the cell with the network coverage which can be used for transmission of voice, data, and other types of content. A cell typically uses a different set of frequencies from neighbouring cells, to avoid interference and provide guaranteed service quality within each cell.[1]
Now, on topic, regarding this battery message, I think Apple is handling it gracefully. Third-party parts can be all over the map in terms of quality. Some people may choose to interpret this as Apple pushing consumers to keep buying their own batteries, but the message is not "in your face", and the device is not disabled in any way. It's just information providing consumers with education. The third-party battery may in fact be better than one that Apple supplies.
Thanks Cool, but do be advised nothing is defined by a tower. AM radio aside, a tower is an erector set of dead, inert metal sticks whose only purpose is to hold the transmitting antennas above the ground. The free space shape (pattern) of each cell is defined by both the gain and center of radiation angle relative to the horizon of a cells (transmitting) antenna(s) (which are mounted on a tower) in any specified direction. The size of each cells’ radiated pattern (whether directional or non-directional) is determined by the transmitter(s) output power and height of the transmitting antenna(s) position on the tower above surrounding terrain. Therefore, since a tower neither generates RF energy in the cellular band nor radiates cellular band RF energy I don't think publications like AppleInsider should be using slang or shortcut language by saying a cell is defined by a radio tower.
I don't think publications like AppleInsider should be using slang or shortcut language. The phone is not the "cell". A "cell phone" communicates within cells, which are defined by the radio towers. The word "cell" refers to the zones around towers. You move from one "cell" to another as you travel.
From Wikipedia...
The network is distributed over land areas called "cells", each served by at least one fixed-location transceiver, but more normally, three cell sites or base transceiver stations. These base stations provide the cell with the network coverage which can be used for transmission of voice, data, and other types of content. A cell typically uses a different set of frequencies from neighbouring cells, to avoid interference and provide guaranteed service quality within each cell.[1]
Now, on topic, regarding this battery message, I think Apple is handling it gracefully. Third-party parts can be all over the map in terms of quality. Some people may choose to interpret this as Apple pushing consumers to keep buying their own batteries, but the message is not "in your face", and the device is not disabled in any way. It's just information providing consumers with education. The third-party battery may in fact be better than one that Apple supplies.
In this case, they're clearly talking about the electrochemical cell, which is one of the parts which makes up a battery. It's a more precise term than "battery".
FU, Apple. This is the stuff that is going to drive me back to PC's after a 12-year run and tens of thousands of dollars donated to your organization.
Apple has a 100% right to do this. Remember if anything is YOUR fault Apple gets blamed. Also if an aftermarket battery blows up an iPhone we get tons of articles, videos and memes mocking Apple.
Also, Apple has a charity?
Would you mind terribly pointing towards any evidence supporting that theory? Both you and @sergioz used the same claim of aftermarket batteries catching fire and Apple getting blamed. That really doesn't happen though. Not really sure what rights you think Apple has, but the right to force 1st party and authorized repair ain't one those rights.
Right to repair is focused on consumer protection and consumer choice. I think anyone advocating against that, especially a consumer putting corporate desires above their own, needs to have their priorities adjusted.
Allegedly. Maybe it is more focused on stocking original components to speculate on those while behind the doors dealing with the trade of counterfeit ones? It is always more effective to inspect a company instead of inspecting millions (billions!) of itty-bitty components. Which one protects the consumer better, inspecting company or inspecting components? Right to repair or right to service? Choose one, you cannot have both, the two are mutually exclusive. Right to repair or right to warranty, choose one you cannot get both. Warranty? OK take that replacement part for free and leave !
Not gonna comment on your speculation. It's too... nah, not touching that. But your right to repair or right to warranty bit? That's absolutely 100% wrong. They are not mutually exclusive. I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. Easy. Take a car. You can repair your brakes, change your oil, complete a tune up, get new tires, repair a fender... I could on for a long time. None of those things void a warranty. There is no choose one, and you most assuredly can have both. Again, I'm not really sure how you reached your conclusion. I'm kinda curious. Where did you get that idea?
Simple. “User repairability” is an attribute of the car. A car is already sold with this option. Some products are just not user-repairable. How will you repair the crashed read/write head of a hard disk? Are you qualified enough to refill a lithium ion battery or is the lithium ion battery filler is unregulated to freely circulate without any security concern? Once you understand that replacing a battery is not similar to refilling the inkjet cartridge of a printer you will come close to my point. I hope...
For Apple, and almost all industrial companies it is trivial to prove before the court that their product is not user-repairable if the product really isn’t. Try to sue the manufacturer or the importer of the Li-ion battery for right to “refill” a consumed battery!..
You have right to return. The manual states that it is not user-repairable. If you learn that after purchase then you just return the product. Nothing in this universe forces you to use a product your very capable and talented self cannot repair.
Thanks for the hilarity. So when the tyres on your car wear out, you have to take it back to the manufacturer to get manufacturer-branded tyres? No one wants to refill a lithium battery, you claiming so is simply being obtuse. People want to replace them, and Apple is apparently now trying to stop them.
FU, Apple. This is the stuff that is going to drive me back to PC's after a 12-year run and tens of thousands of dollars donated to your organization.
Apple has a 100% right to do this. Remember if anything is YOUR fault Apple gets blamed. Also if an aftermarket battery blows up an iPhone we get tons of articles, videos and memes mocking Apple.
Also, Apple has a charity?
Would you mind terribly pointing towards any evidence supporting that theory? Both you and @sergioz used the same claim of aftermarket batteries catching fire and Apple getting blamed. That really doesn't happen though. Not really sure what rights you think Apple has, but the right to force 1st party and authorized repair ain't one those rights.
Right to repair is focused on consumer protection and consumer choice. I think anyone advocating against that, especially a consumer putting corporate desires above their own, needs to have their priorities adjusted.
Allegedly. Maybe it is more focused on stocking original components to speculate on those while behind the doors dealing with the trade of counterfeit ones? It is always more effective to inspect a company instead of inspecting millions (billions!) of itty-bitty components. Which one protects the consumer better, inspecting company or inspecting components? Right to repair or right to service? Choose one, you cannot have both, the two are mutually exclusive. Right to repair or right to warranty, choose one you cannot get both. Warranty? OK take that replacement part for free and leave !
Not gonna comment on your speculation. It's too... nah, not touching that. But your right to repair or right to warranty bit? That's absolutely 100% wrong. They are not mutually exclusive. I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. Easy. Take a car. You can repair your brakes, change your oil, complete a tune up, get new tires, repair a fender... I could on for a long time. None of those things void a warranty. There is no choose one, and you most assuredly can have both. Again, I'm not really sure how you reached your conclusion. I'm kinda curious. Where did you get that idea?
Simple. “User repairability” is an attribute of the car. A car is already sold with this option. Some products are just not user-repairable. How will you repair the crashed read/write head of a hard disk? Are you qualified enough to refill a lithium ion battery or is the lithium ion battery filler is unregulated to freely circulate without any security concern? Once you understand that replacing a battery is not similar to refilling the inkjet cartridge of a printer you will come close to my point. I hope...
For Apple, and almost all industrial companies it is trivial to prove before the court that their product is not user-repairable if the product really isn’t. Try to sue the manufacturer or the importer of the Li-ion battery for right to “refill” a consumed battery!..
You have right to return. The manual states that it is not user-repairable. If you learn that after purchase then you just return the product. Nothing in this universe forces you to use a product your very capable and talented self cannot repair.
Thanks for the hilarity. So when the tyres on your car wear out, you have to take it back to the manufacturer to get manufacturer-branded tyres? No one wants to refill a lithium battery, you claiming so is simply being obtuse. People want to replace them, and Apple is apparently now trying to stop them.
That was resolved in the first line of my post: The car is sold with replaceable tyres.
If the car uses patented unique manufacturer-branded tyres then of course you will take it to the manufacturer to get manufacturer-branded tyres, or you will use the original spare. How your Kingdom will force the car manufacturer to license its tyre patent to third parties or to sell its unique tyres to third parties? You just over-emphasize as always...
Once you open the way to that repair hysteria you cannot prevent anyone from selling battery refill service, it doesn’t matter whether one wants or doesn’t want it. Even if no one wants refill, people still cannot replace Li-ion batteries, there is a serious health hazard both personal and environmental. I refreshed my knowledge on that recently because my MBP’s battery has swollen at the end of four years and it is not eligible for the recently announced battery replacement. Apple replaces the whole top assembly with batteries attached to it and if the repair is uniquely battery at a reduced price, and at much higher price in other repair cases. My trusted service center is aware of the procedure described by ifixit and refuses to go that way because of the dangers of using chinese knockoff batteries. When I return from vacation I will proceed with Apple’s replacement.
Right to repair and open source software have similarities. Both give the consumer the right to fix the product. Authorization to do so?
The open software world, like the Apache group, changes are strictly controlled -- they must be. Anyone who is a programmer or configures software, or users of such software has experienced fixes that cause failures. Those who are authorized to make changes and repairs can and do cause problems at times, but we expect and contractually require they don't break the systems they repair and fix them when they do.
It works the same with "hardware", like a battery, today. Much of what was once thought of as hardware is now software based -- that is, "smart". Replacing a battery in an iPhone is not like dropping a couple of new C-cell batteries into your flashlight. The batteries are "smart" -- and must be sync'ed with the "smart" interface. There have been reports of lithium batteries overheating, causing fires, exploding. Both Samsung and Apple have had to deal with these issues -- they are responsible and liable.
I would expect legally, Apple and those authorized to repair, will be held responsible for installing a faulty battery into an iPhone, even if it is an Apple battery, and to detect if this particular battery is flawed. It is one thing if a battery comes off the assembly line flawed, it's another if a flawed battery is installed.
I want to keep Apple responsible and liable if something as simple as a battery replacement goes south. Apple has deep pockets; your local fix-it guy does not.
FU, Apple. This is the stuff that is going to drive me back to PC's after a 12-year run and tens of thousands of dollars donated to your organization.
Apple has a 100% right to do this. Remember if anything is YOUR fault Apple gets blamed. Also if an aftermarket battery blows up an iPhone we get tons of articles, videos and memes mocking Apple.
Also, Apple has a charity?
Would you mind terribly pointing towards any evidence supporting that theory? Both you and @sergioz used the same claim of aftermarket batteries catching fire and Apple getting blamed. That really doesn't happen though. Not really sure what rights you think Apple has, but the right to force 1st party and authorized repair ain't one those rights.
Right to repair is focused on consumer protection and consumer choice. I think anyone advocating against that, especially a consumer putting corporate desires above their own, needs to have their priorities adjusted.
You seem confused. Apple isn't "forcing" any particular kind of repairs. This article doesn't change that. Refusing to treat after-market battery installs in the same way for purposes of software diagnostics doesn't "force" anyone to do anything.
I'm definitely not with Apple on this. It's a bogus way to duck having to back their products. I had an issue with my iPhone X in that I dropped it and broke the screen. I was insured through Assurant, which is used by T-Mobile to back the products purchased from Apple through them as an authorized dealer. The replacement device arrived and within days I had this battery warning. Assurant directed me to Apple and I received the following response from Apple along with their position that I must now purchase a new battery (for a phone replacement that was days old and supposedly new): "Apple with provide a "new" device for replacement. It is "new" in the sense it has never been used and that it's manufacturer fresh for replacement purposes, but not for resale. There is a difference between new units that are used for replacement, new units that are for sale and units that are refurbished."
In other words, because their new unit for replacement has a battery that sucks, I must purchase a new battery from them. What's to stop Apple from sticking sucky batteries in every "new for replacement" unit so that we must now pay an additional $150 for a battery each time we have a replacement? It's yet another way for them to gouge $ from us as their iPhone market shows signs of stagnation.
For those who think Apple is doing the wrong thing please use something else perhaps you will be better serve there.
Not perhaps. We are. This is the kind of thing that has me rooting for Microsoft. My time with Apple (since 1988) is fast drawing to an end. Fast.
I feel this is an issue with the industry as a whole. Even Microsoft has products that are hard to repair, Surface Pro laptop.I feel that products should be easy to repair. if you purchase it, you own it and you should be able to repair it if it breaks. Right to repair is something that go beyond Apple products. It affects medicare, agriculture, military etc. take a look at this video about the topic.
Comments
I don’t think PCs are the answer. I’ve been reading up on the latest Linux versions for when my 2012.5 Retina Macbook Pro is no longer serviced. I also dumped my iPhone 7 for my wifes 6S+ until it dies. Then I go Galaxy or LG. Thinking you’re locked into an ecosystem is a lack of rational thought.
Among other things, he says the data is unrecoverable. The T2 is connected to one of the USB-C ports, and a data retrieval tool exists. It boots the T2 in DFU mode, formats an external drive, and copies all the data to that external drive. If the T2 itself isn't deeply faulty, the data can absolutely be recovered.
Thanks for the info! Very good. One question I can ask is how did two different generations of Apple TV stop working (one bricked, one no audio) immediately after software updates about a year apart? In both cases, the Apple Genius Bar said they couldn’t/wouldn’t load the older software and said “too bad, buy a new one”. So I did, and after the second one I can say the new Amazon Fire TV Cube is a terrific device!
So how does that block Apple from doing just that: "provide consumers with clear and detailed information"?
If you mean voiding the warranty, Apple and a bunch of other companies already do just that if you break their rules.
I don't think publications like AppleInsider should be using slang or shortcut language. The phone is not the "cell". A "cell phone" communicates within cells, which are defined by the radio towers. The word "cell" refers to the zones around towers. You move from one "cell" to another as you travel.
From Wikipedia...
Now, on topic, regarding this battery message, I think Apple is handling it gracefully. Third-party parts can be all over the map in terms of quality. Some people may choose to interpret this as Apple pushing consumers to keep buying their own batteries, but the message is not "in your face", and the device is not disabled in any way. It's just information providing consumers with education. The third-party battery may in fact be better than one that Apple supplies.
Apple can't tie warranty validity to using 1st party or authorized parts and service. That would be a tie-in.
If the car uses patented unique manufacturer-branded tyres then of course you will take it to the manufacturer to get manufacturer-branded tyres, or you will use the original spare. How your Kingdom will force the car manufacturer to license its tyre patent to third parties or to sell its unique tyres to third parties? You just over-emphasize as always...
Once you open the way to that repair hysteria you cannot prevent anyone from selling battery refill service, it doesn’t matter whether one wants or doesn’t want it. Even if no one wants refill, people still cannot replace Li-ion batteries, there is a serious health hazard both personal and environmental. I refreshed my knowledge on that recently because my MBP’s battery has swollen at the end of four years and it is not eligible for the recently announced battery replacement. Apple replaces the whole top assembly with batteries attached to it and if the repair is uniquely battery at a reduced price, and at much higher price in other repair cases. My trusted service center is aware of the procedure described by ifixit and refuses to go that way because of the dangers of using chinese knockoff batteries. When I return from vacation I will proceed with Apple’s replacement.
The open software world, like the Apache group, changes are strictly controlled -- they must be. Anyone who is a programmer or configures software, or users of such software has experienced fixes that cause failures. Those who are authorized to make changes and repairs can and do cause problems at times, but we expect and contractually require they don't break the systems they repair and fix them when they do.
It works the same with "hardware", like a battery, today. Much of what was once thought of as hardware is now software based -- that is, "smart". Replacing a battery in an iPhone is not like dropping a couple of new C-cell batteries into your flashlight. The batteries are "smart" -- and must be sync'ed with the "smart" interface. There have been reports of lithium batteries overheating, causing fires, exploding. Both Samsung and Apple have had to deal with these issues -- they are responsible and liable.
I would expect legally, Apple and those authorized to repair, will be held responsible for installing a faulty battery into an iPhone, even if it is an Apple battery, and to detect if this particular battery is flawed. It is one thing if a battery comes off the assembly line flawed, it's another if a flawed battery is installed.
I want to keep Apple responsible and liable if something as simple as a battery replacement goes south. Apple has deep pockets; your local fix-it guy does not.
In other words, because their new unit for replacement has a battery that sucks, I must purchase a new battery from them. What's to stop Apple from sticking sucky batteries in every "new for replacement" unit so that we must now pay an additional $150 for a battery each time we have a replacement? It's yet another way for them to gouge $ from us as their iPhone market shows signs of stagnation.
I feel this is an issue with the industry as a whole. Even Microsoft has products that are hard to repair, Surface Pro laptop.I feel that products should be easy to repair. if you purchase it, you own it and you should be able to repair it if it breaks. Right to repair is something that go beyond Apple products. It affects medicare, agriculture, military etc. take a look at this video about the topic.