EU launches antitrust probe on voice assistants like Siri and Alexa

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,633member
    Losers. Here we go again. Not that I am a particular fan of either Google or Amazon (even though I use both products), but this smacks of the EU screaming from the rooftops that they have nothing to offer on the tech front except taxes, regulations, and investigations. Even for ridiculously low- (or even zero-) priced products and services that massively enhance consumer welfare.

    Zero tech capabilities + spend too much => "Let's go after US tech".

    As Exhibit A on tech duncery, it is painful watch Ericsson and Nokia still flailing despite the US handing them Huawei's scalp on a platter.
    I don't support the EU in the slightest, and their motives are purely protectionist in nature. But saying the EU (which you are synonymising with Europe) has no tech capabilities is just plain ignorant. Has the location of ARM passed you by? And Ericsson, Nokia, ST, Infineon, Siemens?
    dewme
  • Reply 22 of 40
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    You can download knockoff Siris on iPhone such as Alexa and whatever Google's Siris name is.

    Alexa does not allow other Siri.

    Why the hate for Apple?
  • Reply 23 of 40
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,182member
    gatorguy said:
    georgie01 said: Love or hate Trump, he isn’t fear mongering about China. If anything he’s conservative in expressing his concerns (conservative for Trump, at least).
    If Trump really held any type of personal strategic concern regarding China, why would he have chosen tariffs as his primary economic strategy? Tariffs were a proven failure as a trade war instrument back in the early 20th century and they've failed again in the early 21st century. The trade deficit with China is larger than ever and there is no replacement for the TPP. Also, why would he claim that China was doing a great job with containing the virus back in January and praising Xi? Shouldn't he have been taking every precaution necessary if he held any personal beliefs regarding China being dangerous or untrustworthy? 
    What the heck does this have to do with voice assistants? We're letting another thread veer far off course. 
    Sadly it is because of where the US is at the moment. An election is coming up so conversations about Beanie Baby collecting and what antibiotic to use on your cat will get hijacked. Everything gets turned to politics. 😤
    Beatsgatorguydewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 40
    MisterKitMisterKit Posts: 454member
    I think it’s fair to ask what does the EU stand to gain from this probe.
    jbdragonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 40
    seanjseanj Posts: 298member

    elijahg I don't support the EU in the slightest, and their motives are purely protectionist in nature. But saying the EU (which you are synonymising with Europe) has no tech capabilities is just plain ignorant. Has the location of ARM passed you by? And Ericsson, Nokia, ST, Infineon, Siemens?
    I think the location of ARM has passed you by... It's located in Cambridge in the United Kingdom / Great Britain.The UK is NOT in the EU, we left at the end of January - one of the few good things about 2020.

    But as the EU has just lost the second highest contributor to its budget - £15 billion each year - it's looking for other funds, especially with the southern Eurozone countries being bankrupt. Seems that fines appear to be its new funding model.
    GG1anantksundaramwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    imatimat Posts: 201member
    I am by no means fan of the EU (just to clarify). But all that screaming about the "poor little US companies" being fined for anti-competitive behavior is a bit blind. As usual there's many sides of it, countries in the EU being on a constant need for cash but having no willingness to tackle the real problem (which is spending and bureaucracy) is one part of the problem for sure.

    But, EU has a higher average broadband speed, lower broadband fees, lower cellular bills, better cellular coverage PRECISELY because EU laws avoid the sort of concentration the US is happy with. I, for one, think a healthy competition is good and, as current times show, there are too many companies that are becoming juggernauts effectively killing off competition "in the cradle". And this, if one is a true capitalist, is not good. The economy shows it cannot regulate itself (sub-prime anyone??). So yes, I welcome the intervention of the EU even though I know very well sometimes they are only going after the cash. But companies should pay taxes so that democratically elected officials can make policies and not "evade all they can and then hand out some charity here and there as they personally see fit".

    Regarding Siri, Alexa, Bixby (ah ah ah) being a "gatekeeper" it is true, as Google is for internet search, as Explorer was for internet navigation. A company having too many gates and keys is always risky for a healthy economy. In the long run you get such vertically integrated gigantic companies that if the economy takes a hit you have a recipe for disaster. (think about the asian big companies such as Samsung, some US companies are becoming very similar).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 40
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,072member
    Rayz2016 said:
    wood1208 said:
    You European morons, take a deep look and investigate any Apps from China or things done by China. They are the one stealing misusing your information hurting you and rest of world. USA is not your enemy, China is and will be...
    Is that you Donald?
    Put your head back into the sand. 
    jbdragon
  • Reply 28 of 40
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,500member
    elijahg said:
    Losers. Here we go again. Not that I am a particular fan of either Google or Amazon (even though I use both products), but this smacks of the EU screaming from the rooftops that they have nothing to offer on the tech front except taxes, regulations, and investigations. Even for ridiculously low- (or even zero-) priced products and services that massively enhance consumer welfare.

    Zero tech capabilities + spend too much => "Let's go after US tech".

    As Exhibit A on tech duncery, it is painful watch Ericsson and Nokia still flailing despite the US handing them Huawei's scalp on a platter.
    I don't support the EU in the slightest, and their motives are purely protectionist in nature. But saying the EU (which you are synonymising with Europe) has no tech capabilities is just plain ignorant. Has the location of ARM passed you by? And Ericsson, Nokia, ST, Infineon, Siemens?
    ARM Ltd., afaik, these days is a Japanese company based in Cambridge, UK.  If you take the EU as European which makes sense when talking business rather than thinking geographically, leave that one out ;)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 40
    gatorguy said: What the heck does this have to do with voice assistants? We're letting another thread veer far off course. 
    Answer: read the Bill Barr article recently posted on this site. The White House wants to attack American tech companies and use China as an excuse. 
    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,353member
    Isn’t Apple 3rd behind Amazon and Google for their digital assistants?  
    Are they going to investigate Google, Microsoft and Samsung for the same thing? 
    Sounds like a cash shakedown to me. EU needs the cash badly due to Covid-19. 
    Especially since they need to Appeal the tax case now. 
    I bet they already spent that money they thought they were getting. 
    Do the other voice assistants lock down third party services as much as Siri does?
  • Reply 31 of 40
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,377member
    When I ask Alexa In my Auto, Spot, Dot, Show, or Echo to “play my music” I get my Apple Music in shuffle mode. The integration between Apple and Amazon around Apple Music is nothing short of a big win for consumers. 

    I wish Apple would do a video HomePod and a bedside HomePod that has a docking/charging spot for Apple Watch. 
    edited July 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 40
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Isn’t Apple 3rd behind Amazon and Google for their digital assistants?  
    Are they going to investigate Google, Microsoft and Samsung for the same thing? 
    Sounds like a cash shakedown to me. EU needs the cash badly due to Covid-19. 
    Especially since they need to Appeal the tax case now. 
    I bet they already spent that money they thought they were getting. 

    Maybe in the smart speaker market as Apple isn't even playing in that market. But iPhone/iPad/Watch Apple is #1. People hardly use Google Whatever on their knockoffs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 40
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,988member
    Once again... divert entirely from the article at hand by making it the tired left/right crap.  Take your hatred elsewhere.  It's this kind of nonsense that makes obtaining any kind of decent information about an article almost impossible to obtain.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,422member
    Beats said:
    Isn’t Apple 3rd behind Amazon and Google for their digital assistants?  
    Are they going to investigate Google, Microsoft and Samsung for the same thing? 
    Sounds like a cash shakedown to me. EU needs the cash badly due to Covid-19. 
    Especially since they need to Appeal the tax case now. 
    I bet they already spent that money they thought they were getting. 

    Maybe in the smart speaker market as Apple isn't even playing in that market. But iPhone/iPad/Watch Apple is #1. People hardly use Google Whatever on their knockoffs.
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/siri-google-asistant-most-used-voice-assistants-alexa/#:~:text=And%20when%20it%20comes%20to,with%20nearly%20identical%20usage%20rates.

  • Reply 35 of 40
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 921member
    gatorguy said:

    What the heck does this have to do with voice assistants? We're letting another thread veer far off course. 
    In the first comment - I don't think the thread was ever "on course".

    The one thing I like about the EU - they are taking a pro-active approach. Getting data now to see if there is anticompetitive behaviour or the possibility of anticompetitive behaviour. Trying to head off damage before it is done.

    The article even mentions one possible case: "The EU's argument surrounding voice assistants isn't a new one. In 2019, Spotify had filed a complaint with the EU, stating Siri's preference for playing music from Apple Music would dissuade users from using Spotify."
  • Reply 36 of 40
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 404member
    "The European Union plans on gathering information from over 400 companies to see if companies like Apple and Amazon are using voice assistants Siri and Alexa to engage in anticompetitive behavior."
    "EU competition regulators are investigating whether or not companies like Apple and Amazon are using voice assistants to control user data and create hostile environments to their competitors."
    I don't see any big deal with what the European Union is doing with just a proactive fact gathering exercise. Let's be realistic here, IF any one of the voice assistants was dominant over the others then the relevant vendor would create a difficult environment for the others. Remember the Microsoft slogan from years back ... DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run.
  • Reply 37 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    georgie01 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    wood1208 said:
    You European morons, take a deep look and investigate any Apps from China or things done by China. They are the one stealing misusing your information hurting you and rest of world. USA is not your enemy, China is and will be...
    Is that you Donald?
    It’s scary how those who hate Trump will immediately believe anything if it means they can direct more hatred toward Trump (ironically while also saying how ‘hate‘ is so terrible...). Only the wilfully blind don’t see that China is a very serious threat. While some want to be diplomatic about it, we can be sure China has no intention of being anything but superficially diplomatic. How can anyone justify their severe religious persecution? Or their clearly deceptive handling of the coronavirus? Or how can anyone with a memory of the history of Hong Kong and the transfer from Britain see China’s actions there as anything remotely resembling appropriate? The list could go on and on...

    Love or hate Trump, he isn’t fear mongering about China. If anything he’s conservative in expressing his concerns (conservative for Trump, at least).
    Well, y’see, there’s the irony. 

    You talk about persecution, then ignore the systemic racism in the US that has led to the protests we’re seeing today. 

    Then you say, “Well, at least we can protest”, then ignore the police blinding protestors by shooting them in face with riot guns, groping women while supposedly arresting them and knocking over old men to the ground and walking over them while they bleed out. 

    You say, “Well, that’s not state sponsored terrorism”, then ignore the state-sponsored terror experiment currently being run in Portland:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53453077

    Paramilitary government agents jumping out of unmarked vehicles, grabbing peaceful protestors and driving them off without identifying themselves or arresting them? Sounds worryingly familiar. 

    I used to be of the opinion that Apple should pull out of China, because I didn’t think it was right that they should be cow-tow to a regime that oppressed huge swathes of its population. Now that I’ve watched the US government remove voting stations in areas where there are large densities of black voters:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting

    So I now realise that oppression comes in many forms. So saying Apple should pull out of China seems strange to me with the US sliding in the same direction. 

    In China, it’s the government oppressing minorities. In the US, encouraged by the government, Asians are being attacked in the streets and privileged white people are trying to weaponise the police against black people walking about in their neighbourhood. 

    Then you say, “What about China’s deceptive handling of the Coronavirus”, then ignore the president’s deceptive statements on testing numbers, and the fact that your government is trying to hide the human cost of the pandemic by suppressing information going out to the public. 

    And while all this is going on, your president says nothing about Russia paying terrorists to kill American soldiers. 

    So then I say, Before criticising the behaviour of other countries, maybe you need to fix the mess in your own backyard. 




    edited July 2020
  • Reply 38 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    viclauyyc said:
    georgie01 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    wood1208 said:
    You European morons, take a deep look and investigate any Apps from China or things done by China. They are the one stealing misusing your information hurting you and rest of world. USA is not your enemy, China is and will be...
    Is that you Donald?
    It’s scary how those who hate Trump will immediately believe anything if it means they can direct more hatred toward Trump (ironically while also saying how ‘hate‘ is so terrible...). Only the wilfully blind don’t see that China is a very serious threat. While some want to be diplomatic about it, we can be sure China has no intention of being anything but superficially diplomatic. How can anyone justify their severe religious persecution? Or their clearly deceptive handling of the coronavirus? Or how can anyone with a memory of the history of Hong Kong and the transfer from Britain see China’s actions there as anything remotely resembling appropriate? The list could go on and on...

    Love or hate Trump, he isn’t fear mongering about China. If anything he’s conservative in expressing his concerns (conservative for Trump, at least).
    How you know he was not meant for Donald the Duck?
    It wasn’t for Donald Duck :smile: 
  • Reply 39 of 40
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,633member
    seanj said:

    elijahg I don't support the EU in the slightest, and their motives are purely protectionist in nature. But saying the EU (which you are synonymising with Europe) has no tech capabilities is just plain ignorant. Has the location of ARM passed you by? And Ericsson, Nokia, ST, Infineon, Siemens?
    I think the location of ARM has passed you by... It's located in Cambridge in the United Kingdom / Great Britain.The UK is NOT in the EU, we left at the end of January - one of the few good things about 2020.

    But as the EU has just lost the second highest contributor to its budget - £15 billion each year - it's looking for other funds, especially with the southern Eurozone countries being bankrupt. Seems that fines appear to be its new funding model.
    I meant Europe rather than the EU when referring to ARM's location. Using "EU" when talking about Europe in general only perpetuates the desire of the EU that the EU is Europe.
    edited July 2020
  • Reply 40 of 40
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,633member

    MacPro said:
    elijahg said:
    Losers. Here we go again. Not that I am a particular fan of either Google or Amazon (even though I use both products), but this smacks of the EU screaming from the rooftops that they have nothing to offer on the tech front except taxes, regulations, and investigations. Even for ridiculously low- (or even zero-) priced products and services that massively enhance consumer welfare.

    Zero tech capabilities + spend too much => "Let's go after US tech".

    As Exhibit A on tech duncery, it is painful watch Ericsson and Nokia still flailing despite the US handing them Huawei's scalp on a platter.
    I don't support the EU in the slightest, and their motives are purely protectionist in nature. But saying the EU (which you are synonymising with Europe) has no tech capabilities is just plain ignorant. Has the location of ARM passed you by? And Ericsson, Nokia, ST, Infineon, Siemens?
    ARM Ltd., afaik, these days is a Japanese company based in Cambridge, UK.  If you take the EU as European which makes sense when talking business rather than thinking geographically, leave that one out ;)
    To be fair it's full of British employees, not Japanese - until recently it was still an independent company. Even if it's now Japanese owned it's not really a Japanese company. If the government had cracked down on foreign business ownership earlier it probably would still be independent. 95% of their development since their existence was as an independent British company.
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