Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
"Believe me, I am well educated on the Huawei issue"
Hubris.
You avoid anything that is negative on Huawei, so be definition, you aren't well educated.
Absolute nonsense.
How about we begin by providing evidence of the accusations brought by the US first?
No company is perfect. Some are worse than others but that really isn't the issue and you know that.
When you have some real evidence to offer, point it out to me. The reality is it simply doesn't exist and now the whole world knows it.
This isn't new. Huawei offered to sell its 5G to an American bidder so they could have a company at least in the running. When that offer was rejected it cemented the idea that the whole national security angle was a smokescreen.
So, you should let this go. This thread has little to do with what you are bringing in (again and again).
No, I won't let it go, but thanks for playing.
I have stated that the issue with Huawei is the close connections with the Chinese Government, and even you must realize that the world has woken up to China's authoritarianism on full display.
You certainly seem okay with China, but I certainly am not, so of course, I'll not "let this go".
But to get back to ARM, one of the conditions of sale is that ARM IP will no longer be available to China, nor will U.S. sourced lithographic equipment that HiSilicon and SMIC need. nor will Electronic Design Automation software sourced from the U.S., all necessary for current and next generations of silicon. China will attempt to hack these companies in the West, as they have in the past, to jump start their technologies, no different than the advantage that Huawei gained from the hacking of Nortel and Cisco.
You seem to think that this is all Trump, but the truth is, Xi Jinping has been bent on recreating the Mao era, and rolling back any liberalizations that occurred in previous governments.
What happened to ARM mini China and the JV which saw the Chinese take a 51% stake?
Nothing will be hacked. It will just take time. Less time now, thanks to Trump. The Chinese have been on the road to silicon self sufficiency for years and are now simply accelerating things.
I also mentioned RISC-V which is picking up incredible steam across the board.
ARM China will be stuck with whatever ARM IP they have currently; they won't get future generations. RISCV seems like a good match for where China is today, and thank the University Of California, Berkeley for that while you're at it.
Lithographic equipment and EDA software are non-trivial, and yes, for a fact, China will try and hack its way to self sufficiency, same as China and Russia have been attempting to hack the West's COVID-19 vaccine programs.
Hacking and stealing technology and IP is exactly what China does, so much so, that even Russia feels the effect of that.
Dish network is building out the first major 5G network in the U.S. using OpenRAN technology, using disaggregated hardware and software and standardized interfaces.
Of course, Huawei benefits from complete and proprietary installs, that are especially popular with 3rd world countries, due to Chinese Government financing.
I would imagine that future ARM IP is already baked into the JV deal.
AFAIK, and I don't know much about this aspect, that was part of the reasoning behind the JV.
Maybe, maybe not, but without EDA updates, or the most up to date lithographic equipment, how is that going to actually work?
Watch the video; learn something, even if you don't agree with it.
So you don't know about the future of ARM IP in China. You presented that claim as if it was an absolute. You said they wouldn't get future ARM IP, so which is it?
As for ORAN, you sound as if you've only just found out about it.
It is impossible to know where ORAN will end up but we do know that if it makes any kind of impact it will take years to do so.
Right now, which is where the relevance is, it is not up to the task of matching Huawei. ORAN is an interface and has to run on something and that something has to be efficient on many levels. Huawei is ruling the roost when it comes to efficiencies and efficiency means money. The US might be ok with slower, inefficient (and by definition, more expensive) solutions but if you have access to Huawei equipment, there are big attractions there, and the more rural the setting, the more important efficiencies are.
The question is if more efficient radio hardware (massive MIMO) can be brought to market by the likes of Nokia and Ericsson. They are behind in this area because both of them haven't invested well enough to improve efficiencies while Huawei has.
In fact, Huawei's lead in gallium semi conductor production doesn't look like being cut back any time soon.
As for fabbing, I already answered that. It just needs time and Trump has accelerated China's plans to achieve semi conductor self suffiency (yes, including fabbing).
You keep making the case of why the West needs to source outside of China, but you don't even realize it.
Yeah, the West put much of its technology production in China, but there is now a race to disengage from China, and move production to other countries, all driven by China's authoritarianism. That will also reduce the transfer of technology to China.
Do you really think that China is going to come out on top over this, because if you do, you are delusional.
Ah! It's me who is delusional! Thanks for telling me.
Before you go scuttling off to another point, how about you answer the one I brought up first?
Or replying to my point on ORAN and gallium nitride semiconductors.
You said China wouldn't get future ARM IP and then said 'maybe they would or maybe they wouldn't' . To me, that sounds as if your first claim was simply not true.
As I said I get the impression you have little understanding of what ORAN is and probably only heard of it recently.
There is no 'race' to disengage from China.
When I spoke of the US losing billions in Huawei revenue, I made it clear that 130+ US tech companies had requested licences to do business with Huawei!
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
That lost business has already gone, but gone directly to US tech competitors in Europe and Asia (of course including China).
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
The global supply chain, remains, erm, global.
It is Trump who, unable to get his way with groundless accusations and using the global system, is now trying to destroy it, as well as trying to reduce China's influence in the next industrial revolution by trying to destroy Huawei.
You certainly don't know about ARM either, but it is absolutely true that the U.S. wants a TMSC fab in the U.S. for National Security reasons, number one of which, China is constantly threatening Taiwan. My speculation is that ARM IP will not be allowed into China beyond what is already there, and since you do not have any of the facts to dispute that, I'll stick with my speculation. TMSC's plant in China only provides chips for foreign companies.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
Go read something before posting drivel.
This has already been addressed, and I publicly accepted my error. You're late to this party.
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
Whatever.
Watch the link that I posted. It's an hour and a half long, so it might be beyond your attention span.
Why would anybody but a fool want to watch your propaganda video?
We know that Trump's attacks on Huawei are based on politics rather than facts. That has been repeatedly demonstrated and openly admitted to by the UK. And, like Canada, they are placating the Orange Baby waiting till he is gone.
The world snickers at him (and, by extension, us) behind his back.
LOL,
If there is to be a President Biden, I would hope the he keeps up the pressure on China, and Huawei, among other Chinese companies, just so that your head explodes.
Trump's basis for attacking Huawei has the same relation to fact and reality as his attack on TicToc.
Not only has the UK already said the only reason they are (temporarily) distancing from Huawei is to placate the Orange Baby having a temper tantrum, but this from the BBC on why Trump is now attacking TicToc:
"Trump's dislike of TikTok goes further than just privacy concerns.
In
India TikTok was banned after a border skirmish with China - it was
caught up in a geopolitical feud. And that's what's happened here, too.
Trump's sights are set firmly on China - and this should be seen through
that lens.
TikTok says that it doesn't keep any data in China and would never give it to China.
But, in many ways it doesn't matter what they say, the fact that they are owned by a Chinese's company is guilt enough.
Not to be overlooked either is Trump's previous experience with TikTok.
Last month users claimed to have scuppered his Tulsa rally after signing up to tickets they had no intention of using.
And
although there are Republican and conservative voices on TikTok, the
profile of users in the US is generally young and liberal/left.
It's hard to believe that's not a factor here."
It's sad that so many Americans are gullible enough to believe and worship this con man. It really does not speak well for this once great nation.
It's sad you don't understand technology well enough that you can fathom a smart phone being turned into a listening device.
I hope that Apple has a Plan 'B'? What if Nvidia start messing with Arm License terms and want a load more $$$$? Apple and Nvidia are not exactly good friends.
Apple should make sure that this can't happen or move to plan B, a different CPU architecture?
I really don't understand why people aren't getting this, so I think it might be a good time to speculate on some worst case scenarios.
Nvidia changing the license to the CPU architecture will not affect Apple because Apple licenses the instruction set spec and ARM compatibility tests, not the reference designs for the chips.
Apple chips aren't actually ARM chips; they're Apple chips that just happen to share the same (though I reckon Apple has modified it) instruction set. Apple has effectively bought the instruction set and are free to change it however they want, regardless of who owns ARM. All they need from ARM is the compatibility tests.
So what is the worst case scenario?
Nvidia buys ARM and immediately decides they're going to cause mass panic throughout the industry by telling Apple they have to pay more money for ongoing access to the compatibility suite.
Apple says, "You sure about that?"
"Hell, yeah,' says NVidia, "and we're going to tie you up in court to destroy confidence in your ASi programme."
"Okey Dokey," says Apple.
Other companies, meanwhile, see how this is going to play out in their future and immediately start looking at ways of getting out from under Nvidia.
Later that year, Apple makes an announcement at the WWDC:
ASi has been a game-changer, so much so that they want to take it further: In order to further optimise what they can do with their architecture, the next generation of ASi chips will be using AIS – the Apple Instruction Set. Developers outside the app store will need to recompile their code; those on the app store won't need to do anything as the final stage compilation (when users buy an app) will take care of this. There will be an emulator (Rosetta3) based on the instruction set that Apple has been using. Apple will be working with outfits that rely on the lower level stuff (virtualisation software) to make the transition (This is much the same as they are doing now with the likes of Docker).
ARM realises that they've been played, and in a moment of stupidity, decides to change the ARM instruction set to spite Apple. Without access to the new compatibility tests, Apple will not be able to verify that Rosetta3 will run the new ARM code.
From Apple's point of view, the situation is annoying. For the rest of the industry, now having to deal with testing code to make sure runs on old ARM and new ARM, the situation is more than annoying; it's a disaster.
The reason I mention this is because somewhere in Apple's chip design house, a group of men and women are sitting around a table, weighing the advantages/disadvantages of creating their own instruction set tailored for the Apple platform.
They'll probably decide there isn't any real advantage, since they can do whatever they want with the one they've got.
Also, in accepting my previous error, this opens another pandora's box, namely a company apple slighted (by refusing to work with them because NVIDIA refused to incorporate METAL) now being in control of the ARM spec, meaning the likelihood of what you described actually happening being that much higher.
They have no interest in improving the ARM designs since they have no interest in selling chips to other companies.
Actually, Tim Cook hedged his answer on that. He didn't say they wouldn't sell chips to other companies. That was in a recent call, reported here, if I remember correctly.
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
"Believe me, I am well educated on the Huawei issue"
Hubris.
You avoid anything that is negative on Huawei, so be definition, you aren't well educated.
Absolute nonsense.
How about we begin by providing evidence of the accusations brought by the US first?
No company is perfect. Some are worse than others but that really isn't the issue and you know that.
When you have some real evidence to offer, point it out to me. The reality is it simply doesn't exist and now the whole world knows it.
This isn't new. Huawei offered to sell its 5G to an American bidder so they could have a company at least in the running. When that offer was rejected it cemented the idea that the whole national security angle was a smokescreen.
So, you should let this go. This thread has little to do with what you are bringing in (again and again).
No, I won't let it go, but thanks for playing.
I have stated that the issue with Huawei is the close connections with the Chinese Government, and even you must realize that the world has woken up to China's authoritarianism on full display.
You certainly seem okay with China, but I certainly am not, so of course, I'll not "let this go".
But to get back to ARM, one of the conditions of sale is that ARM IP will no longer be available to China, nor will U.S. sourced lithographic equipment that HiSilicon and SMIC need. nor will Electronic Design Automation software sourced from the U.S., all necessary for current and next generations of silicon. China will attempt to hack these companies in the West, as they have in the past, to jump start their technologies, no different than the advantage that Huawei gained from the hacking of Nortel and Cisco.
You seem to think that this is all Trump, but the truth is, Xi Jinping has been bent on recreating the Mao era, and rolling back any liberalizations that occurred in previous governments.
What happened to ARM mini China and the JV which saw the Chinese take a 51% stake?
Nothing will be hacked. It will just take time. Less time now, thanks to Trump. The Chinese have been on the road to silicon self sufficiency for years and are now simply accelerating things.
I also mentioned RISC-V which is picking up incredible steam across the board.
ARM China will be stuck with whatever ARM IP they have currently; they won't get future generations. RISCV seems like a good match for where China is today, and thank the University Of California, Berkeley for that while you're at it.
Lithographic equipment and EDA software are non-trivial, and yes, for a fact, China will try and hack its way to self sufficiency, same as China and Russia have been attempting to hack the West's COVID-19 vaccine programs.
Hacking and stealing technology and IP is exactly what China does, so much so, that even Russia feels the effect of that.
Dish network is building out the first major 5G network in the U.S. using OpenRAN technology, using disaggregated hardware and software and standardized interfaces.
Of course, Huawei benefits from complete and proprietary installs, that are especially popular with 3rd world countries, due to Chinese Government financing.
Exactly! I just can’t understand, how it is possible, that there are still people who don’t see that
Not everybody in the world reads and is foolish enough to believe right wing propaganda. Some prefer reality.
Believe me, I know what I am talking about. I have spent forty years of my life in such a country. So don’t tell me about reality. You are living in a dreamland. Follow your own advice, and try to read more, and what is more important: to understand what are you reading. Don’t hide your incompetence behind words like “propaganda”
LOL.... Propaganda is propaganda. And the right wing crazies live and breath by it. It's a different world, a different universe that's become their new reality. They have heard it shouted so loud and so often it has replaced truth, facts and actual reality for them and they get very confused and angry when the actual reality crashes up against their fake one.
I am very far from the dispute going on in America- Right or Left wing crazies live, because I am living in Europe. But this polarization is for nothing good. It divide American nation and make it weak. And many foreign nation are happy to see this and they are doing their best to make it worse.
Don’t talk about propaganda, but try to find the facts, the truth, because the truth is somewhere in between. And remember: in the history there is no country in the world, which was under Left-red regime, without millions victims of their own people, only because they think different.
So you are lucky: you can still say fry what you want. You see the right have also pros ;-)
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
Nvidia will have no issues getting this approved.
A stipulation of the sale will almost certainly be that new ARM IP will not be made available to Chinese companies, due to China's use of civilian technology for the PLA.
Also due to the fact nothing is made in china without the chinese government having complete control of it.
Bahahahaha....
... That's what your right wing overlords want you to think....
The rest of the world knows that is nonsense.
"There's technology transfer: Chinese regulations often require foreign companies to partner with a state-run Chinese firm if they're going to open shop there. That's happened to GM, Volkswagen, Qualcomm, and Intel, for instance. And that intrinsically involves sharing intellectual property and technology with the Chinese partner. There's good old-fashioned copyright violations: Chinese companies brazenly copy patents, brands, logos, and such. (Nor, as mentioned above, can foreign companies always rely on Chinese courts to shutdown this behavior.) Finally, there's outright commercial espionage: Chinese actors physically breaking in or hacking into foreign companies — either on foreign soil or within China — and making off with trade secrets."
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
"Believe me, I am well educated on the Huawei issue"
Hubris.
You avoid anything that is negative on Huawei, so be definition, you aren't well educated.
Absolute nonsense.
How about we begin by providing evidence of the accusations brought by the US first?
No company is perfect. Some are worse than others but that really isn't the issue and you know that.
When you have some real evidence to offer, point it out to me. The reality is it simply doesn't exist and now the whole world knows it.
This isn't new. Huawei offered to sell its 5G to an American bidder so they could have a company at least in the running. When that offer was rejected it cemented the idea that the whole national security angle was a smokescreen.
So, you should let this go. This thread has little to do with what you are bringing in (again and again).
No, I won't let it go, but thanks for playing.
I have stated that the issue with Huawei is the close connections with the Chinese Government, and even you must realize that the world has woken up to China's authoritarianism on full display.
You certainly seem okay with China, but I certainly am not, so of course, I'll not "let this go".
But to get back to ARM, one of the conditions of sale is that ARM IP will no longer be available to China, nor will U.S. sourced lithographic equipment that HiSilicon and SMIC need. nor will Electronic Design Automation software sourced from the U.S., all necessary for current and next generations of silicon. China will attempt to hack these companies in the West, as they have in the past, to jump start their technologies, no different than the advantage that Huawei gained from the hacking of Nortel and Cisco.
You seem to think that this is all Trump, but the truth is, Xi Jinping has been bent on recreating the Mao era, and rolling back any liberalizations that occurred in previous governments.
What happened to ARM mini China and the JV which saw the Chinese take a 51% stake?
Nothing will be hacked. It will just take time. Less time now, thanks to Trump. The Chinese have been on the road to silicon self sufficiency for years and are now simply accelerating things.
I also mentioned RISC-V which is picking up incredible steam across the board.
ARM China will be stuck with whatever ARM IP they have currently; they won't get future generations. RISCV seems like a good match for where China is today, and thank the University Of California, Berkeley for that while you're at it.
Lithographic equipment and EDA software are non-trivial, and yes, for a fact, China will try and hack its way to self sufficiency, same as China and Russia have been attempting to hack the West's COVID-19 vaccine programs.
Hacking and stealing technology and IP is exactly what China does, so much so, that even Russia feels the effect of that.
Dish network is building out the first major 5G network in the U.S. using OpenRAN technology, using disaggregated hardware and software and standardized interfaces.
Of course, Huawei benefits from complete and proprietary installs, that are especially popular with 3rd world countries, due to Chinese Government financing.
I would imagine that future ARM IP is already baked into the JV deal.
AFAIK, and I don't know much about this aspect, that was part of the reasoning behind the JV.
Maybe, maybe not, but without EDA updates, or the most up to date lithographic equipment, how is that going to actually work?
Watch the video; learn something, even if you don't agree with it.
So you don't know about the future of ARM IP in China. You presented that claim as if it was an absolute. You said they wouldn't get future ARM IP, so which is it?
As for ORAN, you sound as if you've only just found out about it.
It is impossible to know where ORAN will end up but we do know that if it makes any kind of impact it will take years to do so.
Right now, which is where the relevance is, it is not up to the task of matching Huawei. ORAN is an interface and has to run on something and that something has to be efficient on many levels. Huawei is ruling the roost when it comes to efficiencies and efficiency means money. The US might be ok with slower, inefficient (and by definition, more expensive) solutions but if you have access to Huawei equipment, there are big attractions there, and the more rural the setting, the more important efficiencies are.
The question is if more efficient radio hardware (massive MIMO) can be brought to market by the likes of Nokia and Ericsson. They are behind in this area because both of them haven't invested well enough to improve efficiencies while Huawei has.
In fact, Huawei's lead in gallium semi conductor production doesn't look like being cut back any time soon.
As for fabbing, I already answered that. It just needs time and Trump has accelerated China's plans to achieve semi conductor self suffiency (yes, including fabbing).
You keep making the case of why the West needs to source outside of China, but you don't even realize it.
Yeah, the West put much of its technology production in China, but there is now a race to disengage from China, and move production to other countries, all driven by China's authoritarianism. That will also reduce the transfer of technology to China.
Do you really think that China is going to come out on top over this, because if you do, you are delusional.
Ah! It's me who is delusional! Thanks for telling me.
Before you go scuttling off to another point, how about you answer the one I brought up first?
Or replying to my point on ORAN and gallium nitride semiconductors.
You said China wouldn't get future ARM IP and then said 'maybe they would or maybe they wouldn't' . To me, that sounds as if your first claim was simply not true.
As I said I get the impression you have little understanding of what ORAN is and probably only heard of it recently.
There is no 'race' to disengage from China.
When I spoke of the US losing billions in Huawei revenue, I made it clear that 130+ US tech companies had requested licences to do business with Huawei!
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
That lost business has already gone, but gone directly to US tech competitors in Europe and Asia (of course including China).
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
The global supply chain, remains, erm, global.
It is Trump who, unable to get his way with groundless accusations and using the global system, is now trying to destroy it, as well as trying to reduce China's influence in the next industrial revolution by trying to destroy Huawei.
You certainly don't know about ARM either, but it is absolutely true that the U.S. wants a TMSC fab in the U.S. for National Security reasons, number one of which, China is constantly threatening Taiwan. My speculation is that ARM IP will not be allowed into China beyond what is already there, and since you do not have any of the facts to dispute that, I'll stick with my speculation. TMSC's plant in China only provides chips for foreign companies.
It is also true that the Trump administration is blocking technology sales to many Chinese Companies, see entities list, including Huawei, but you don't seem to be concerned about those other companies.
The U.S. and the West likely wouldn't be disengaging with China if it wasn't for Xi Jinping, so no matter how much I detest Trump, this policy is broadly supported by both parties, especially after the enactment of the Security Law in Hong Kong, and the Human Rights violations in the Xinjiang region. On top of that, many Western countries, including all of the Five Eyes, have suspended their extradition treaty with China.
When Arm sold its stake in Arm China, one assumption in the US was that part of the motivation was to allow Arm, a British firm owned by a Japanese conglomerate, to continue licensing IP to Huawei. Like every other chip designer, Huawei relies heavily on Arm. And there are concerns that the US government will prevent Arm from supplying Huawei. In the first round of Huawei restrictions last year, Arm made it known that they were only providing Huawei IP from current licenses and were cutting off access to future improvements. With Arm’s complex China holding structure, we can think of a half dozen loopholes that may allow Huawei to continue to access Arm IP. Maybe they take advantage of those, maybe not."
Now it is true that Huawei may attempt to get around that, but the JV may not get the improvement either.
Ah! So your affirmation turns out to be pure speculation.
You are right, I am not really knowledgeable on the current or future state of ARM IP in China. However, how could you not be aware of that seeing as I myself told you! LOL.
Let me insist. There is no race to disengage. My comments above, demonstrate that clearly.
You throw in your human rights accusations as usual, even though they have no bearing on this thread.
ORAN has completely vanished from your argument, I see. I'm not surprised.
Anyway, here's a fun look at what's going on and where China/Huawei took the right moves years ago. If the US had taken the right moves a decade ago, it wouldn't be in its current predicament.
You know, 20kg can be installed by one person unassisted. That saves a ton of money on deployment. Competitors are running at 40kg. It's not only weight though, it's volume too, and of course the aforementioned efficiency gains.
And when you start pairing those advances with other advances in associated technologies you begin to understand why Huawei is where it is. Why not take a look at something like the OptiXtreme H7 with capacity to run 48 T/bits over a single fiber.
Ah! It's all stolen, right? But from who if no one has anything in the same league!?
LOL,
Keep on believing what you will, but the times, they are a changing, and not in China's, nor Huawei's, favor.
"For months, most EU countries hid behind the U.K. government’s confident assertion that it could manage the risk of allowing Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, to help build its 5G networks. They hoped this would let them have it both ways: get a swift, cost-efficient cellular telephony upgrade from China, while avoiding trouble with their U.S. ally. But now that Britain has moved to block Huawei’s participation, Europeans find themselves deprived of cover, and both the US and China are breathing fire down their necks."
Americans and Europeans used to fight about whether there was a “smoking gun” indicating that Huawei’s equipment was being used for espionage. This is still not proven, but it is plausible. No Chinese company is exempt from pressure by the Chinese party-state.
Today, the national security case against Huawei is made by the shift in China’s behavior: its hardening authoritarianism and persecution of minorities at home; its drive for regional hegemony; its aggressive pursuit of physical, economic and digital assets in Europe; and its crackdown on the autonomy of Hong Kong, in flagrant breach of international law.
Most recently, Beijing has ramped up what Asia expert Andrew Small describes as predatory “attempts to exploit political and economic vulnerabilities in Europe.” Its methods range from disinformation operations to support for populists and threats by senior diplomats. This changes the context of permitting China to provide key components of Europe’s digital ecosystem.
Europeans, in fact, had already shifted from their earlier embrace of China to a more guarded posture of balancing and limiting Chinese influence. An official EU document from 2019 calls China a “systemic rival.” The EU’s latest industrial, connectivity and digital strategies reflect these concerns. While resisting outright bans, many of the EU’s 27 states are overhauling their network security standards. France’s cyber security agency told operators this month to avoid switching to Huawei. The Italian government has issued guidelines that might lead to the exclusion of Huawei.
But Mr Morawiecki was thinking of a particular European neighbor, which now finds itself in an unpleasant dilemma: Germany. It is China’s chief interlocutor in the west after the U.S. It is Europe’s pivotal power and largest telecoms market. China is also its biggest trade partner. German critics of China have pounced on the opportunity arising from the U.K. decision. “It’s Berlin’s turn to move!” tweeted Reinhard Bütikofer, a Green member of the European Parliament.
In Germany’s parliament, critics of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s circumspect stance on Huawei and China range from the Greens, Free Democrats and hard-right Alternative for Germany to her Social Democrat coalition partners, who have published forceful strategy papers on China and 5G. They also include many of her own Christian Democrats, led by Norbert Röttgen, chairman of the Bundestag’s foreign policy committee.
Arrayed in defense of Huawei and Beijing are economics minister Peter Altmaier, the head of the network regulatory agency, the cellular provider Deutsche Telekom, and the powerful chemical and car industries, desperate for Chinese market access to lift them out of coronavirus-induced recession.
For Merkel, whose fourth and last term will end in autumn 2021, all this could not come at a worse time. Germany has just taken on the rotating EU presidency for six months. She had hoped to sign an EU-China investment deal at a summit in Leipzig in September. But the deal is not ready, and the summit is postponed. Instead, Ms Merkel has pledged to lead the EU out of economic crisis by putting Germany’s wealth behind an unprecedented €1.8tn recovery package.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
Perhaps it is time to take the side of those marching for freedom and democracy in Asia today."
Yeah, things are wonderful for Huawei.
So you once again try to derail a thread.
It's geopolitics. Not national security. Live with it.
I have never said things are wonderful for Huawei.
But do you really think this ARM, ASML, Extra territorial Sanctions etc will actually achieve anything save for acceleratong the obvious?
And you say I'm delusional for stating the facts (which I see as irrefutable BTW).
Now, I will admit there is a possible geopolitical angle to this nVidia story but let's not go overboard.
Geopolitics IS National Security, and infrastructure absolutely has National Security aspects.
Using the "National Security' excuse to defend injecting government into free, open markets and corporate affairs? Really? You know -- like blocking kids from using TicToc!
I have to chuckle when you right wingers defend and support Trump for doing exactly what you and he accuse China of doing!
Is everything with you all about politics? We could probably have a thread about muffins and somehow you'd find a way to interject how far the US is behind every other muffin baking country all 'cause a'dem nasty 'rhaht-wangers, and you going on to tell us how China had it right all along.
Gosh, you'll be lost finding something to talk about next year with a change in administration. Maybe discussing what China does in the name of "national security" will help fill your time.
Just responding to crazed comments from crazed right wingers injecting their conspiracy theories into anything and everything. If you don't like the response then the answer is simple: stop saying stupid, crazy things and I wouldn't need to respond to them. But I'm not sure that it's possible for right wingers to NOT say stupid, crazy things.
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
"Believe me, I am well educated on the Huawei issue"
Hubris.
You avoid anything that is negative on Huawei, so be definition, you aren't well educated.
Absolute nonsense.
How about we begin by providing evidence of the accusations brought by the US first?
No company is perfect. Some are worse than others but that really isn't the issue and you know that.
When you have some real evidence to offer, point it out to me. The reality is it simply doesn't exist and now the whole world knows it.
This isn't new. Huawei offered to sell its 5G to an American bidder so they could have a company at least in the running. When that offer was rejected it cemented the idea that the whole national security angle was a smokescreen.
So, you should let this go. This thread has little to do with what you are bringing in (again and again).
No, I won't let it go, but thanks for playing.
I have stated that the issue with Huawei is the close connections with the Chinese Government, and even you must realize that the world has woken up to China's authoritarianism on full display.
You certainly seem okay with China, but I certainly am not, so of course, I'll not "let this go".
But to get back to ARM, one of the conditions of sale is that ARM IP will no longer be available to China, nor will U.S. sourced lithographic equipment that HiSilicon and SMIC need. nor will Electronic Design Automation software sourced from the U.S., all necessary for current and next generations of silicon. China will attempt to hack these companies in the West, as they have in the past, to jump start their technologies, no different than the advantage that Huawei gained from the hacking of Nortel and Cisco.
You seem to think that this is all Trump, but the truth is, Xi Jinping has been bent on recreating the Mao era, and rolling back any liberalizations that occurred in previous governments.
What happened to ARM mini China and the JV which saw the Chinese take a 51% stake?
Nothing will be hacked. It will just take time. Less time now, thanks to Trump. The Chinese have been on the road to silicon self sufficiency for years and are now simply accelerating things.
I also mentioned RISC-V which is picking up incredible steam across the board.
ARM China will be stuck with whatever ARM IP they have currently; they won't get future generations. RISCV seems like a good match for where China is today, and thank the University Of California, Berkeley for that while you're at it.
Lithographic equipment and EDA software are non-trivial, and yes, for a fact, China will try and hack its way to self sufficiency, same as China and Russia have been attempting to hack the West's COVID-19 vaccine programs.
Hacking and stealing technology and IP is exactly what China does, so much so, that even Russia feels the effect of that.
Dish network is building out the first major 5G network in the U.S. using OpenRAN technology, using disaggregated hardware and software and standardized interfaces.
Of course, Huawei benefits from complete and proprietary installs, that are especially popular with 3rd world countries, due to Chinese Government financing.
I would imagine that future ARM IP is already baked into the JV deal.
AFAIK, and I don't know much about this aspect, that was part of the reasoning behind the JV.
Maybe, maybe not, but without EDA updates, or the most up to date lithographic equipment, how is that going to actually work?
Watch the video; learn something, even if you don't agree with it.
So you don't know about the future of ARM IP in China. You presented that claim as if it was an absolute. You said they wouldn't get future ARM IP, so which is it?
As for ORAN, you sound as if you've only just found out about it.
It is impossible to know where ORAN will end up but we do know that if it makes any kind of impact it will take years to do so.
Right now, which is where the relevance is, it is not up to the task of matching Huawei. ORAN is an interface and has to run on something and that something has to be efficient on many levels. Huawei is ruling the roost when it comes to efficiencies and efficiency means money. The US might be ok with slower, inefficient (and by definition, more expensive) solutions but if you have access to Huawei equipment, there are big attractions there, and the more rural the setting, the more important efficiencies are.
The question is if more efficient radio hardware (massive MIMO) can be brought to market by the likes of Nokia and Ericsson. They are behind in this area because both of them haven't invested well enough to improve efficiencies while Huawei has.
In fact, Huawei's lead in gallium semi conductor production doesn't look like being cut back any time soon.
As for fabbing, I already answered that. It just needs time and Trump has accelerated China's plans to achieve semi conductor self suffiency (yes, including fabbing).
You keep making the case of why the West needs to source outside of China, but you don't even realize it.
Yeah, the West put much of its technology production in China, but there is now a race to disengage from China, and move production to other countries, all driven by China's authoritarianism. That will also reduce the transfer of technology to China.
Do you really think that China is going to come out on top over this, because if you do, you are delusional.
Ah! It's me who is delusional! Thanks for telling me.
Before you go scuttling off to another point, how about you answer the one I brought up first?
Or replying to my point on ORAN and gallium nitride semiconductors.
You said China wouldn't get future ARM IP and then said 'maybe they would or maybe they wouldn't' . To me, that sounds as if your first claim was simply not true.
As I said I get the impression you have little understanding of what ORAN is and probably only heard of it recently.
There is no 'race' to disengage from China.
When I spoke of the US losing billions in Huawei revenue, I made it clear that 130+ US tech companies had requested licences to do business with Huawei!
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
That lost business has already gone, but gone directly to US tech competitors in Europe and Asia (of course including China).
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
The global supply chain, remains, erm, global.
It is Trump who, unable to get his way with groundless accusations and using the global system, is now trying to destroy it, as well as trying to reduce China's influence in the next industrial revolution by trying to destroy Huawei.
You certainly don't know about ARM either, but it is absolutely true that the U.S. wants a TMSC fab in the U.S. for National Security reasons, number one of which, China is constantly threatening Taiwan. My speculation is that ARM IP will not be allowed into China beyond what is already there, and since you do not have any of the facts to dispute that, I'll stick with my speculation. TMSC's plant in China only provides chips for foreign companies.
It is also true that the Trump administration is blocking technology sales to many Chinese Companies, see entities list, including Huawei, but you don't seem to be concerned about those other companies.
The U.S. and the West likely wouldn't be disengaging with China if it wasn't for Xi Jinping, so no matter how much I detest Trump, this policy is broadly supported by both parties, especially after the enactment of the Security Law in Hong Kong, and the Human Rights violations in the Xinjiang region. On top of that, many Western countries, including all of the Five Eyes, have suspended their extradition treaty with China.
When Arm sold its stake in Arm China, one assumption in the US was that part of the motivation was to allow Arm, a British firm owned by a Japanese conglomerate, to continue licensing IP to Huawei. Like every other chip designer, Huawei relies heavily on Arm. And there are concerns that the US government will prevent Arm from supplying Huawei. In the first round of Huawei restrictions last year, Arm made it known that they were only providing Huawei IP from current licenses and were cutting off access to future improvements. With Arm’s complex China holding structure, we can think of a half dozen loopholes that may allow Huawei to continue to access Arm IP. Maybe they take advantage of those, maybe not."
Now it is true that Huawei may attempt to get around that, but the JV may not get the improvement either.
Ah! So your affirmation turns out to be pure speculation.
You are right, I am not really knowledgeable on the current or future state of ARM IP in China. However, how could you not be aware of that seeing as I myself told you! LOL.
Let me insist. There is no race to disengage. My comments above, demonstrate that clearly.
You throw in your human rights accusations as usual, even though they have no bearing on this thread.
ORAN has completely vanished from your argument, I see. I'm not surprised.
Anyway, here's a fun look at what's going on and where China/Huawei took the right moves years ago. If the US had taken the right moves a decade ago, it wouldn't be in its current predicament.
You know, 20kg can be installed by one person unassisted. That saves a ton of money on deployment. Competitors are running at 40kg. It's not only weight though, it's volume too, and of course the aforementioned efficiency gains.
And when you start pairing those advances with other advances in associated technologies you begin to understand why Huawei is where it is. Why not take a look at something like the OptiXtreme H7 with capacity to run 48 T/bits over a single fiber.
Ah! It's all stolen, right? But from who if no one has anything in the same league!?
LOL,
Keep on believing what you will, but the times, they are a changing, and not in China's, nor Huawei's, favor.
"For months, most EU countries hid behind the U.K. government’s confident assertion that it could manage the risk of allowing Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, to help build its 5G networks. They hoped this would let them have it both ways: get a swift, cost-efficient cellular telephony upgrade from China, while avoiding trouble with their U.S. ally. But now that Britain has moved to block Huawei’s participation, Europeans find themselves deprived of cover, and both the US and China are breathing fire down their necks."
Americans and Europeans used to fight about whether there was a “smoking gun” indicating that Huawei’s equipment was being used for espionage. This is still not proven, but it is plausible. No Chinese company is exempt from pressure by the Chinese party-state.
Today, the national security case against Huawei is made by the shift in China’s behavior: its hardening authoritarianism and persecution of minorities at home; its drive for regional hegemony; its aggressive pursuit of physical, economic and digital assets in Europe; and its crackdown on the autonomy of Hong Kong, in flagrant breach of international law.
Most recently, Beijing has ramped up what Asia expert Andrew Small describes as predatory “attempts to exploit political and economic vulnerabilities in Europe.” Its methods range from disinformation operations to support for populists and threats by senior diplomats. This changes the context of permitting China to provide key components of Europe’s digital ecosystem.
Europeans, in fact, had already shifted from their earlier embrace of China to a more guarded posture of balancing and limiting Chinese influence. An official EU document from 2019 calls China a “systemic rival.” The EU’s latest industrial, connectivity and digital strategies reflect these concerns. While resisting outright bans, many of the EU’s 27 states are overhauling their network security standards. France’s cyber security agency told operators this month to avoid switching to Huawei. The Italian government has issued guidelines that might lead to the exclusion of Huawei.
But Mr Morawiecki was thinking of a particular European neighbor, which now finds itself in an unpleasant dilemma: Germany. It is China’s chief interlocutor in the west after the U.S. It is Europe’s pivotal power and largest telecoms market. China is also its biggest trade partner. German critics of China have pounced on the opportunity arising from the U.K. decision. “It’s Berlin’s turn to move!” tweeted Reinhard Bütikofer, a Green member of the European Parliament.
In Germany’s parliament, critics of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s circumspect stance on Huawei and China range from the Greens, Free Democrats and hard-right Alternative for Germany to her Social Democrat coalition partners, who have published forceful strategy papers on China and 5G. They also include many of her own Christian Democrats, led by Norbert Röttgen, chairman of the Bundestag’s foreign policy committee.
Arrayed in defense of Huawei and Beijing are economics minister Peter Altmaier, the head of the network regulatory agency, the cellular provider Deutsche Telekom, and the powerful chemical and car industries, desperate for Chinese market access to lift them out of coronavirus-induced recession.
For Merkel, whose fourth and last term will end in autumn 2021, all this could not come at a worse time. Germany has just taken on the rotating EU presidency for six months. She had hoped to sign an EU-China investment deal at a summit in Leipzig in September. But the deal is not ready, and the summit is postponed. Instead, Ms Merkel has pledged to lead the EU out of economic crisis by putting Germany’s wealth behind an unprecedented €1.8tn recovery package.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
Perhaps it is time to take the side of those marching for freedom and democracy in Asia today."
Yeah, things are wonderful for Huawei.
So you once again try to derail a thread.
It's geopolitics. Not national security. Live with it.
I have never said things are wonderful for Huawei.
But do you really think this ARM, ASML, Extra territorial Sanctions etc will actually achieve anything save for acceleratong the obvious?
And you say I'm delusional for stating the facts (which I see as irrefutable BTW).
Now, I will admit there is a possible geopolitical angle to this nVidia story but let's not go overboard.
Geopolitics IS National Security, and infrastructure absolutely has National Security aspects.
Using the "National Security' excuse to defend injecting government into free, open markets and corporate affairs? Really? You know -- like blocking kids from using TicToc!
I have to chuckle when you right wingers defend and support Trump for doing exactly what you and he accuse China of doing!
Is everything with you all about politics? We could probably have a thread about muffins and somehow you'd find a way to interject how far the US is behind every other muffin baking country all 'cause a'dem nasty 'rhaht-wangers, and you going on to tell us how China had it right all along.
Gosh, you'll be lost finding something to talk about next year with a change in administration. Maybe discussing what China does in the name of "national security" will help fill your time.
Just responding to crazed comments from crazed right wingers injecting their conspiracy theories into anything and everything. If you don't like the response then the answer is simple: stop saying stupid, crazy things and I wouldn't need to respond to them. But I'm not sure that it's possible for right wingers to NOT say stupid, crazy things.
Speaking over propaganda, I don’t know if you are aware of that, but your comments are nothing else but puur propaganda. Sorry, but it seems to me like the thief is shouting “ Catch the thief “
tmay said: As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
The British engaged in armed conflict with China. The public terms of the peace agreement were that the British leased Taiwan from China for 99 years.
Taiwan is part of China and belongs to China.
However, the society that exists on Taiwan has developed under close to 100 years of British rule and being subject to British laws. The people who live in that society do not want to be part of the society that exists on mainland China. There was a legal agreement in place at the end of the lease that grants the Taiwanese society some legal differences from the mainland society for a period of time (I think it was 50 years, but I may be wrong). The CCP is trying to reduce that agreed-upon timeframe, and the people of Taiwan are resisting that attempt.
It is a bad situation for all concerned. I wonder what would have happened had the British not gone to war with China in the 1800s?
Just the wait time of approval from various government will likely kill the deal.
We can only hope.
As I said before, this is not only a mistake, putting control of the ARM architecture directly in the hands of China (NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China), but it's going in the exact direction I expected it to go.
I called this when it was first reported, and everyone said I was being Chicken Little.
What now, brown cow?
"NVIDIA is Intel, and Intel is pretty much China"
Intel has no significant discernible stake in NVIDIA and Intel is majority owned by institutional investors, the two biggest by far being Vanguard and Blackrock - both American.
The right's fear of China knows no boundaries in reality.
Nor does your posturing, which is no-nothing, if not entirely supportive of the CCP.
I think that New Zealand has had enough of Chinese Influence operations in New Zealand, as have many other countries, including Australia and the U.S.
As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
LOL.... No....
I'm not "pro-CCP" (Whatever the hell that is!)
But I am against smear campaigns and wars fought to distract from internal abuses and deficiencies.
China has been a boon to the U.S. consumer producing great, high quality, low cost products. It's not their fault that U.S. industry lost its competitive edge. If those industries hadn't moved to Japan, China and Korea it would have been other countries.
And no, don't go there on Huawei: that's 100% Trump smear campaign. Even the UK admitted that Trump pressured them into (temporarily) pushing Huawei out. It had nothing to do with Trump's claims -- which all proved to be bogus.
Huawei 5G is banned in the UK. All existing Huawei 4G must be removed by 2027.
Meng Wanzhou will be extradited to the U.S. to face trial.
For the record;
CCP is the Chinese Communist Party; they run Mainland China. If you are "pro" CCP, as it appears, then you are for the authoritarian government of China. PRC is the People's Republic of China; ie Mainland China, governed by the CCP.
See how easy that was?
Hmmn!
But the ban is political. No national security grounds involved and could be short lived if Trump is not re-elected.
As I stated, the tipping point might have been the passing of the Security Law that took effect in Hong Kong on June 30 at midnight.
Either way, the UK won't be removing the ban in the future. The ban was actually very popular with Parliament.
"The government’s private admissions are out of kilter with public statements last week by ministers, who said Huawei had been banned because of new security concerns raised by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which is part of GCHQ."
"In the Commons, Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport, said new sanctions forbidding the sale of US-produced components to Huawei – meaning the Chinese company will have to source them from elsewhere – had changed the balance of security risk."
You might consider actually reading the whole article that you linked to. It's hardly what you portray, but I'll bet that Boris Johnson would hint that, since the UK's economy depends on new trade relations, due to Brexit. Still, I doubt that Biden will back off of a Huawei ban either, assuming he wins the Presidential Election. It has broad support within Congress.
If you would actually watch the video that I posted at the link, you could educate yourself to the Huawei issues that the U.S. has. There is a necessary leveling of the playing field due to the subsidies that Huawei has received from the PRC, which have been and are used to undercut competition; Huawei's close association with the PLA; and, the matter of China stealing our IP, not to mention the problem with Huawei having to answer in the affirmative if the Chinese Government requests data on Huawei telecom networks.
You really are not at all educated on the Huawei issues, and Huawei has been an issue with the U.S. since the Bush II administration.
Believe me. I'm well educated on the Huawei issue.
Did you know that in the original filings, the US government included a company that had nothing at all to do with Huawei?
This really is Keystone Cops level and it has gone beyond that level.
They have nothing and now the world knows it and has taken note.
The damage Trump is causing to US business and foreign business interests is off the scale.
The US was already losing out in certain areas ARM/Fabs, 5G etc and things won't get better.
Over 130 US companies requested licences to do business with Huawei because they want to. And Google is likely to be the one which suffers more in the mid to long term.
"Believe me, I am well educated on the Huawei issue"
Hubris.
You avoid anything that is negative on Huawei, so be definition, you aren't well educated.
Absolute nonsense.
How about we begin by providing evidence of the accusations brought by the US first?
No company is perfect. Some are worse than others but that really isn't the issue and you know that.
When you have some real evidence to offer, point it out to me. The reality is it simply doesn't exist and now the whole world knows it.
This isn't new. Huawei offered to sell its 5G to an American bidder so they could have a company at least in the running. When that offer was rejected it cemented the idea that the whole national security angle was a smokescreen.
So, you should let this go. This thread has little to do with what you are bringing in (again and again).
No, I won't let it go, but thanks for playing.
I have stated that the issue with Huawei is the close connections with the Chinese Government, and even you must realize that the world has woken up to China's authoritarianism on full display.
You certainly seem okay with China, but I certainly am not, so of course, I'll not "let this go".
But to get back to ARM, one of the conditions of sale is that ARM IP will no longer be available to China, nor will U.S. sourced lithographic equipment that HiSilicon and SMIC need. nor will Electronic Design Automation software sourced from the U.S., all necessary for current and next generations of silicon. China will attempt to hack these companies in the West, as they have in the past, to jump start their technologies, no different than the advantage that Huawei gained from the hacking of Nortel and Cisco.
You seem to think that this is all Trump, but the truth is, Xi Jinping has been bent on recreating the Mao era, and rolling back any liberalizations that occurred in previous governments.
What happened to ARM mini China and the JV which saw the Chinese take a 51% stake?
Nothing will be hacked. It will just take time. Less time now, thanks to Trump. The Chinese have been on the road to silicon self sufficiency for years and are now simply accelerating things.
I also mentioned RISC-V which is picking up incredible steam across the board.
ARM China will be stuck with whatever ARM IP they have currently; they won't get future generations. RISCV seems like a good match for where China is today, and thank the University Of California, Berkeley for that while you're at it.
Lithographic equipment and EDA software are non-trivial, and yes, for a fact, China will try and hack its way to self sufficiency, same as China and Russia have been attempting to hack the West's COVID-19 vaccine programs.
Hacking and stealing technology and IP is exactly what China does, so much so, that even Russia feels the effect of that.
Dish network is building out the first major 5G network in the U.S. using OpenRAN technology, using disaggregated hardware and software and standardized interfaces.
Of course, Huawei benefits from complete and proprietary installs, that are especially popular with 3rd world countries, due to Chinese Government financing.
I would imagine that future ARM IP is already baked into the JV deal.
AFAIK, and I don't know much about this aspect, that was part of the reasoning behind the JV.
Maybe, maybe not, but without EDA updates, or the most up to date lithographic equipment, how is that going to actually work?
Watch the video; learn something, even if you don't agree with it.
So you don't know about the future of ARM IP in China. You presented that claim as if it was an absolute. You said they wouldn't get future ARM IP, so which is it?
As for ORAN, you sound as if you've only just found out about it.
It is impossible to know where ORAN will end up but we do know that if it makes any kind of impact it will take years to do so.
Right now, which is where the relevance is, it is not up to the task of matching Huawei. ORAN is an interface and has to run on something and that something has to be efficient on many levels. Huawei is ruling the roost when it comes to efficiencies and efficiency means money. The US might be ok with slower, inefficient (and by definition, more expensive) solutions but if you have access to Huawei equipment, there are big attractions there, and the more rural the setting, the more important efficiencies are.
The question is if more efficient radio hardware (massive MIMO) can be brought to market by the likes of Nokia and Ericsson. They are behind in this area because both of them haven't invested well enough to improve efficiencies while Huawei has.
In fact, Huawei's lead in gallium semi conductor production doesn't look like being cut back any time soon.
As for fabbing, I already answered that. It just needs time and Trump has accelerated China's plans to achieve semi conductor self suffiency (yes, including fabbing).
You keep making the case of why the West needs to source outside of China, but you don't even realize it.
Yeah, the West put much of its technology production in China, but there is now a race to disengage from China, and move production to other countries, all driven by China's authoritarianism. That will also reduce the transfer of technology to China.
Do you really think that China is going to come out on top over this, because if you do, you are delusional.
Ah! It's me who is delusional! Thanks for telling me.
Before you go scuttling off to another point, how about you answer the one I brought up first?
Or replying to my point on ORAN and gallium nitride semiconductors.
You said China wouldn't get future ARM IP and then said 'maybe they would or maybe they wouldn't' . To me, that sounds as if your first claim was simply not true.
As I said I get the impression you have little understanding of what ORAN is and probably only heard of it recently.
There is no 'race' to disengage from China.
When I spoke of the US losing billions in Huawei revenue, I made it clear that 130+ US tech companies had requested licences to do business with Huawei!
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
That lost business has already gone, but gone directly to US tech competitors in Europe and Asia (of course including China).
Does that sound like a race to disengage?
The global supply chain, remains, erm, global.
It is Trump who, unable to get his way with groundless accusations and using the global system, is now trying to destroy it, as well as trying to reduce China's influence in the next industrial revolution by trying to destroy Huawei.
You certainly don't know about ARM either, but it is absolutely true that the U.S. wants a TMSC fab in the U.S. for National Security reasons, number one of which, China is constantly threatening Taiwan. My speculation is that ARM IP will not be allowed into China beyond what is already there, and since you do not have any of the facts to dispute that, I'll stick with my speculation. TMSC's plant in China only provides chips for foreign companies.
It is also true that the Trump administration is blocking technology sales to many Chinese Companies, see entities list, including Huawei, but you don't seem to be concerned about those other companies.
The U.S. and the West likely wouldn't be disengaging with China if it wasn't for Xi Jinping, so no matter how much I detest Trump, this policy is broadly supported by both parties, especially after the enactment of the Security Law in Hong Kong, and the Human Rights violations in the Xinjiang region. On top of that, many Western countries, including all of the Five Eyes, have suspended their extradition treaty with China.
When Arm sold its stake in Arm China, one assumption in the US was that part of the motivation was to allow Arm, a British firm owned by a Japanese conglomerate, to continue licensing IP to Huawei. Like every other chip designer, Huawei relies heavily on Arm. And there are concerns that the US government will prevent Arm from supplying Huawei. In the first round of Huawei restrictions last year, Arm made it known that they were only providing Huawei IP from current licenses and were cutting off access to future improvements. With Arm’s complex China holding structure, we can think of a half dozen loopholes that may allow Huawei to continue to access Arm IP. Maybe they take advantage of those, maybe not."
Now it is true that Huawei may attempt to get around that, but the JV may not get the improvement either.
Ah! So your affirmation turns out to be pure speculation.
You are right, I am not really knowledgeable on the current or future state of ARM IP in China. However, how could you not be aware of that seeing as I myself told you! LOL.
Let me insist. There is no race to disengage. My comments above, demonstrate that clearly.
You throw in your human rights accusations as usual, even though they have no bearing on this thread.
ORAN has completely vanished from your argument, I see. I'm not surprised.
Anyway, here's a fun look at what's going on and where China/Huawei took the right moves years ago. If the US had taken the right moves a decade ago, it wouldn't be in its current predicament.
You know, 20kg can be installed by one person unassisted. That saves a ton of money on deployment. Competitors are running at 40kg. It's not only weight though, it's volume too, and of course the aforementioned efficiency gains.
And when you start pairing those advances with other advances in associated technologies you begin to understand why Huawei is where it is. Why not take a look at something like the OptiXtreme H7 with capacity to run 48 T/bits over a single fiber.
Ah! It's all stolen, right? But from who if no one has anything in the same league!?
LOL,
Keep on believing what you will, but the times, they are a changing, and not in China's, nor Huawei's, favor.
"For months, most EU countries hid behind the U.K. government’s confident assertion that it could manage the risk of allowing Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, to help build its 5G networks. They hoped this would let them have it both ways: get a swift, cost-efficient cellular telephony upgrade from China, while avoiding trouble with their U.S. ally. But now that Britain has moved to block Huawei’s participation, Europeans find themselves deprived of cover, and both the US and China are breathing fire down their necks."
Americans and Europeans used to fight about whether there was a “smoking gun” indicating that Huawei’s equipment was being used for espionage. This is still not proven, but it is plausible. No Chinese company is exempt from pressure by the Chinese party-state.
Today, the national security case against Huawei is made by the shift in China’s behavior: its hardening authoritarianism and persecution of minorities at home; its drive for regional hegemony; its aggressive pursuit of physical, economic and digital assets in Europe; and its crackdown on the autonomy of Hong Kong, in flagrant breach of international law.
Most recently, Beijing has ramped up what Asia expert Andrew Small describes as predatory “attempts to exploit political and economic vulnerabilities in Europe.” Its methods range from disinformation operations to support for populists and threats by senior diplomats. This changes the context of permitting China to provide key components of Europe’s digital ecosystem.
Europeans, in fact, had already shifted from their earlier embrace of China to a more guarded posture of balancing and limiting Chinese influence. An official EU document from 2019 calls China a “systemic rival.” The EU’s latest industrial, connectivity and digital strategies reflect these concerns. While resisting outright bans, many of the EU’s 27 states are overhauling their network security standards. France’s cyber security agency told operators this month to avoid switching to Huawei. The Italian government has issued guidelines that might lead to the exclusion of Huawei.
But Mr Morawiecki was thinking of a particular European neighbor, which now finds itself in an unpleasant dilemma: Germany. It is China’s chief interlocutor in the west after the U.S. It is Europe’s pivotal power and largest telecoms market. China is also its biggest trade partner. German critics of China have pounced on the opportunity arising from the U.K. decision. “It’s Berlin’s turn to move!” tweeted Reinhard Bütikofer, a Green member of the European Parliament.
In Germany’s parliament, critics of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s circumspect stance on Huawei and China range from the Greens, Free Democrats and hard-right Alternative for Germany to her Social Democrat coalition partners, who have published forceful strategy papers on China and 5G. They also include many of her own Christian Democrats, led by Norbert Röttgen, chairman of the Bundestag’s foreign policy committee.
Arrayed in defense of Huawei and Beijing are economics minister Peter Altmaier, the head of the network regulatory agency, the cellular provider Deutsche Telekom, and the powerful chemical and car industries, desperate for Chinese market access to lift them out of coronavirus-induced recession.
For Merkel, whose fourth and last term will end in autumn 2021, all this could not come at a worse time. Germany has just taken on the rotating EU presidency for six months. She had hoped to sign an EU-China investment deal at a summit in Leipzig in September. But the deal is not ready, and the summit is postponed. Instead, Ms Merkel has pledged to lead the EU out of economic crisis by putting Germany’s wealth behind an unprecedented €1.8tn recovery package.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
U.S. president Donald Trump’s bullying of allies is unhelpful at a time when Washington and Brussels should be working together. Beijing’s China First policies require a firm, principled European response. As Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has observed, the US and China too have been diminished by the pandemic. In an interdependent world, the US needs allies and China needs markets. Germany, like the U.K., is no more than a middle power. But Europe has real leverage, if it is united.
Merkel, as she considers her legacy, might do well to recall that it was in Leipzig that tens of thousands of her fellow East Germans stared down heavily armed police and marched for liberty in 1989.
Perhaps it is time to take the side of those marching for freedom and democracy in Asia today."
Yeah, things are wonderful for Huawei.
So you once again try to derail a thread.
It's geopolitics. Not national security. Live with it.
I have never said things are wonderful for Huawei.
But do you really think this ARM, ASML, Extra territorial Sanctions etc will actually achieve anything save for acceleratong the obvious?
And you say I'm delusional for stating the facts (which I see as irrefutable BTW).
Now, I will admit there is a possible geopolitical angle to this nVidia story but let's not go overboard.
Geopolitics IS National Security, and infrastructure absolutely has National Security aspects.
Using the "National Security' excuse to defend injecting government into free, open markets and corporate affairs? Really? You know -- like blocking kids from using TicToc!
I have to chuckle when you right wingers defend and support Trump for doing exactly what you and he accuse China of doing!
Is everything with you all about politics? We could probably have a thread about muffins and somehow you'd find a way to interject how far the US is behind every other muffin baking country all 'cause a'dem nasty 'rhaht-wangers, and you going on to tell us how China had it right all along.
Gosh, you'll be lost finding something to talk about next year with a change in administration. Maybe discussing what China does in the name of "national security" will help fill your time.
Just responding to crazed comments from crazed right wingers injecting their conspiracy theories into anything and everything. If you don't like the response then the answer is simple: stop saying stupid, crazy things and I wouldn't need to respond to them. But I'm not sure that it's possible for right wingers to NOT say stupid, crazy things.
Speaking over propaganda, I don’t know if you are aware of that, but your comments are nothing else but puur propaganda. Sorry, but it seems to me like the thief is shouting “ Catch the thief “
Reality sounds like propaganda to the brain washed
Apple should have gone 1st-party with the CPU ISA like the rest of the SoC.
They did.
No, they didn’t. They chose ARM’s Aarch64, a third-party ISA.
As I understand it they are compatible with A64 so that they can run generic ARM code, but the belief is that they have extended it with their own instructions too.
tmay said: As for Taiwan, no it doesn't belong to China, no matter how much the CCP state so, and though China will ultimately weigh having to invade Taiwan, most Western countries support Taiwan's right to exist independently of Mainland China. The question will be, whether those Western Nations will support Taiwan militarily.
Maybe, just maybe, Mainland China belongs to the democracy that we know as Taiwan.
The British engaged in armed conflict with China. The public terms of the peace agreement were that the British leased Taiwan from China for 99 years.
Taiwan is part of China and belongs to China.
However, the society that exists on Taiwan has developed under close to 100 years of British rule and being subject to British laws. The people who live in that society do not want to be part of the society that exists on mainland China. There was a legal agreement in place at the end of the lease that grants the Taiwanese society some legal differences from the mainland society for a period of time (I think it was 50 years, but I may be wrong). The CCP is trying to reduce that agreed-upon timeframe, and the people of Taiwan are resisting that attempt.
It is a bad situation for all concerned. I wonder what would have happened had the British not gone to war with China in the 1800s?
I'm pretty sure that you have confused Hong Kong with Taiwan.
I hope that Apple has a Plan 'B'? What if Nvidia start messing with Arm License terms and want a load more $$$$? Apple and Nvidia are not exactly good friends.
Apple should make sure that this can't happen or move to plan B, a different CPU architecture?
I really don't understand why people aren't getting this, so I think it might be a good time to speculate on some worst case scenarios.
Nvidia changing the license to the CPU architecture will not affect Apple because Apple licenses the instruction set spec and ARM compatibility tests, not the reference designs for the chips.
Apple chips aren't actually ARM chips; they're Apple chips that just happen to share the same (though I reckon Apple has modified it) instruction set. Apple has effectively bought the instruction set and are free to change it however they want, regardless of who owns ARM. All they need from ARM is the compatibility tests.
So what is the worst case scenario?
Nvidia buys ARM and immediately decides they're going to cause mass panic throughout the industry by telling Apple they have to pay more money for ongoing access to the compatibility suite.
Apple says, "You sure about that?"
"Hell, yeah,' says NVidia, "and we're going to tie you up in court to destroy confidence in your ASi programme."
"Okey Dokey," says Apple.
Other companies, meanwhile, see how this is going to play out in their future and immediately start looking at ways of getting out from under Nvidia.
Later that year, Apple makes an announcement at the WWDC:
ASi has been a game-changer, so much so that they want to take it further: In order to further optimise what they can do with their architecture, the next generation of ASi chips will be using AIS – the Apple Instruction Set. Developers outside the app store will need to recompile their code; those on the app store won't need to do anything as the final stage compilation (when users buy an app) will take care of this. There will be an emulator (Rosetta3) based on the instruction set that Apple has been using. Apple will be working with outfits that rely on the lower level stuff (virtualisation software) to make the transition (This is much the same as they are doing now with the likes of Docker).
ARM realises that they've been played, and in a moment of stupidity, decides to change the ARM instruction set to spite Apple. Without access to the new compatibility tests, Apple will not be able to verify that Rosetta3 will run the new ARM code.
From Apple's point of view, the situation is annoying. For the rest of the industry, now having to deal with testing code to make sure runs on old ARM and new ARM, the situation is more than annoying; it's a disaster.
The reason I mention this is because somewhere in Apple's chip design house, a group of men and women are sitting around a table, weighing the advantages/disadvantages of creating their own instruction set tailored for the Apple platform.
They'll probably decide there isn't any real advantage, since they can do whatever they want with the one they've got.
Also, in accepting my previous error, this opens another pandora's box, namely a company apple slighted (by refusing to work with them because NVIDIA refused to incorporate METAL) now being in control of the ARM spec, meaning the likelihood of what you described actually happening being that much higher.
And if that did happen, Apple would be one of the few companies relatively unaffected. NVidia would simply cause problems for licensees using the ARM reference designs, and Apple doesn’t use them.
Apple should have gone 1st-party with the CPU ISA like the rest of the SoC.
They did.
No, they didn’t. They chose ARM’s Aarch64, a third-party ISA.
Yes they did. The instruction set is ARM compatible, but that doesn’t mean that the code Apple's compiler throws out will run on any ARM chip. Apple is free to extend it, and they probably have, according to Rene Ritchie.
If Apple came up with their own instruction set then the chances are it would look very much like the ARM instruction set anyway; since they were one of the original co-founders If ARM then they probably in the best position to know how it can be improved.
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And remember: in the history there is no country in the world, which was under Left-red regime, without millions victims of their own people, only because they think different.
Yep! That's one of the many right wing conspiracy theories Trumpers believe. The rest of the world just chuckles a little and shakes their heads...
Just responding to crazed comments from crazed right wingers injecting their conspiracy theories into anything and everything. If you don't like the response then the answer is simple: stop saying stupid, crazy things and I wouldn't need to respond to them. But I'm not sure that it's possible for right wingers to NOT say stupid, crazy things.
Taiwan is part of China and belongs to China.
However, the society that exists on Taiwan has developed under close to 100 years of British rule and being subject to British laws. The people who live in that society do not want to be part of the society that exists on mainland China. There was a legal agreement in place at the end of the lease that grants the Taiwanese society some legal differences from the mainland society for a period of time (I think it was 50 years, but I may be wrong). The CCP is trying to reduce that agreed-upon timeframe, and the people of Taiwan are resisting that attempt.
It is a bad situation for all concerned. I wonder what would have happened had the British not gone to war with China in the 1800s?
Reality sounds like propaganda to the brain washed
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34729538
"China sees Taiwan as a breakaway province that will eventually be part of the country again, but many Taiwanese want a separate nation."
Yes they did. The instruction set is ARM compatible, but that doesn’t mean that the code Apple's compiler throws out will run on any ARM chip. Apple is free to extend it, and they probably have, according to Rene Ritchie.