Epic Games CEO says Apple suit is about 'basic freedoms,' calls Apple a middleman

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 110
    XedXed Posts: 1,513member

    tshapi said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    I thinks it just about the money. Clearly this was premeditated. He formulated a route and programmed it into the game to by pass Apple and google play stores. Anticipated a lawsuit knowing what he was doing violated there ToS and then had a parody video in place, knowing the likely hood of them yanking fort nite over his TOS violation  was close to 100%.

    He also has been outspoken for over 3 years about this. Why did he wait til now to pull this? Why not do it in 2017? Or 2018? Or 2019?  
    There was already a pushback with the App Store so they decided to pile on. It was a solid strategic move for someone who lacks ethics (just like trying to define the post office, causing strategic delays, and removing mail boxes from cities so a sitting president can steal another election).
    lolliverleavingthebiggthtviclauyycn2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 110
    castcorecastcore Posts: 141member
    Xed said:
    castcore said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    They can leave Apple or advertise their game on the web? You cannot want access to Apple customers, use their App Store and not want to pay. What is the difference between what Epic is doing then me going to Morton’s Steakhouse , have a ribeye and tell them I will only pay $5 and not the $49 price I saw in the menu for the steak or I will sue you? 
    Why are you addressing these questions to me?
    Because you are a sympathizer if the communist Tim Sweeney and Epic
  • Reply 23 of 110
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Apple isn't the middleman. Apple develops the software, the hardware and brings the customers.
    aderutterlolliverforegoneconclusionurahararazorpitjony0n2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 110
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Xed said:

    tshapi said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    I thinks it just about the money. Clearly this was premeditated. He formulated a route and programmed it into the game to by pass Apple and google play stores. Anticipated a lawsuit knowing what he was doing violated there ToS and then had a parody video in place, knowing the likely hood of them yanking fort nite over his TOS violation  was close to 100%.

    He also has been outspoken for over 3 years about this. Why did he wait til now to pull this? Why not do it in 2017? Or 2018? Or 2019?  
    There was already a pushback with the App Store so they decided to pile on. It was a solid strategic move for someone who lacks ethics (just like trying to define the post office, causing strategic delays, and removing mail boxes from cities so a sitting president can steal another election).


    Notice it's only the multi-billionaire dollar companies complaining?

    Also notice the "coincidence" of Microsoft doing similar crap KNOWING the rules.
    aderutterlolliverjony0Detnator
  • Reply 25 of 110
    Beats said:
    Xed said:

    tshapi said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    I thinks it just about the money. Clearly this was premeditated. He formulated a route and programmed it into the game to by pass Apple and google play stores. Anticipated a lawsuit knowing what he was doing violated there ToS and then had a parody video in place, knowing the likely hood of them yanking fort nite over his TOS violation  was close to 100%.

    He also has been outspoken for over 3 years about this. Why did he wait til now to pull this? Why not do it in 2017? Or 2018? Or 2019?  
    There was already a pushback with the App Store so they decided to pile on. It was a solid strategic move for someone who lacks ethics (just like trying to define the post office, causing strategic delays, and removing mail boxes from cities so a sitting president can steal another election).


    Notice it's only the multi-billionaire dollar companies complaining?

    Also notice the "coincidence" of Microsoft doing similar crap KNOWING the rules.

    Yeah, where’s the conspiracy investigation over Microsoft, Epic and Facebook all whining about Apple within days of each other?

    I’ve heard of price fixing, but what do you call this? Whine-fixing?
    edited August 2020 lollivertmayBeatsjony0n2itivguywatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 26 of 110
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    This CEO is free to develop his own phone, infrastructure, etc., etc.

    Such an idiot.
    aderutterlolliverthtBeatsurahararazorpitjony0n2itivguywatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 27 of 110
    XedXed Posts: 1,513member
    castcore said:
    Xed said:
    castcore said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    They can leave Apple or advertise their game on the web? You cannot want access to Apple customers, use their App Store and not want to pay. What is the difference between what Epic is doing then me going to Morton’s Steakhouse , have a ribeye and tell them I will only pay $5 and not the $49 price I saw in the menu for the steak or I will sue you? 
    Why are you addressing these questions to me?
    Because you are a sympathizer if the communist Tim Sweeney and Epic
    Someone lacks reading comprehension skills. The fact that I suggested Epic create their own game console instead of complaining about Apple or the fact that I referred to Fortnite as "Forkknife" were too subtle for you, eh?
    edited August 2020 WarrenBuffduckhaderutterlollivermontrosemacsPeramanuraharan2itivguydanhwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 28 of 110
    As Steve Jobs laid it out in the debut presentation, before Apple App Store developers were beholden to both handset/device makers and the carriers such that they often only got 30% after the two concerns took the revenue/profit cuts they demanded.   And with zero promotional and marketing support
    Developer’s still would have more costs and expenses to pay further reducing their 30% take 

    Plus, You didn’t have these convenient major, Consolidated , curated markets and platforms. Every handset/device maker and Carrier was like its own unique point of negotiated terms...



    edited August 2020 EsquireCatslolliverBeatsviclauyycwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 29 of 110
    castcore said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    They can leave Apple or advertise their game on the web? You cannot want access to Apple customers, use their App Store and not want to pay. What is the difference between what Epic is doing then me going to Morton’s Steakhouse , have a ribeye and tell them I will only pay $5 and not the $49 price I saw in the menu for the steak or I will sue you? 
    I am trying to imagine a $2TB steakhouse with Apple sized’s walled garden, marketing prowess and saturation rate, but nothing comes up
    Except that, at that scale they might indeed offer a $5 steak of the more decent kind.

    (yet sold by Tim at $40...80, plus a $100 yearly program for additional kitchening & lifestyle services -  next to a $50 weekly Cookette gastronomic magazine, a $150 TimPlate® customer loyalty bonus program, and a $250/yr minimum spending CookGold® credit card offering 2% discount across the line.
    Note: Passengers soon enrolled by the TimboTrolley® autorouted car system, developed at 80 billion funding, never to see light anyway...)
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 30 of 110
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,250member
    According to Forbes Tim Sweeny has a net worth of 5.3 Billion. Making him #383 on their list.

    Yet the guy is seated in an office with sparse decorations, and looks more like the gaming room of one of his typical customers. That's not an accident, it's engineered to help you forget that this is literally a Billionaire trying to get richer at the expense of the hard work of others.



    edited August 2020 XedaderutterlolliverforegoneconclusionericthehalfbeemontrosemacsBeatsviclauyycurahararazorpit
  • Reply 31 of 110
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 843member
    This is more of a well planned publicity stunt by epic

    Apple  nor Google is not going to give them special
    Treatment or allow customers to sign up outside the App

    Thete are no winners here   While Epic puts out some good games they need Apple and Google

    The customer is the biggest loser 
    EsquireCatslolliverBeatsuraharan2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 110
    This is just dumb. Of course developers have a choice. They can distribute however they want. They can charge whatever they want. They could even launch their own phone with their own store if they want to. But if they want to sell their app on App Store or Google Play, they need to follow the rules set by then. It’s absurd that they want to use a system, but they want it to bend over backwards to fit their desires. I like to drive, but if I want the freedom to drive as I please, there WILL be consequences for my choices (could be good or bad). I can’t expect the police officer to bend the laws just because it’s MY freedom to choose how I should drive. Likewise, if I want to pay a certain price for an item, I can find a better price by shopping around. I can’t expect a store (Walmart, for example) to change their prices and policies to fit MY preference just because of MY freedoms. This is just dumb. Apple doesn’t force you to buy an iPhone, and there are plenty of choices other than an iPhone; I personally buy it BECAUSE of the “walled garden”; I prefer a system that’s stable and reliable and which I can count on, just the same way I prefer my house to be safe and secure; not wide open for anyone to walk in. When I want to tinker, I either jailbreak it or use an Android. We DO have choices. These people just want to impose THEIR choices (to have a wide open system) on the rest of us, who prefer stability and better security.
    lolliverGabyBeatsuraharan2itivguywatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 33 of 110
    raymondai said:
    Build epicPhone, epicOS, epic App Store,
    set all of these at zero price, and you may have all developer on earth to support your business, no more middleman, then sell your game 30% cheaper, wonderful~

    Exactly. They don’t like how Apple does things? Then find or build a phone and/or store that does exactly what they want. Easy as that. That’s precisely why Apple built the iPhone and Google built Android, etc.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 110
    darkpawdarkpaw Posts: 212member
    I saw some guy on the TV being interviewed about this, and he said Apple is acting as a rent-collector, milking their tenants rather than innovating. Idiot. Anyway, he suggested that Apple should reduce their cut to maybe 10-15% rather than 30%. So, this guy *knows* exactly how much Apple need to spend to maintain and improve the App Store, iOS, the development tools, etc.? He *knows* that Apple can afford to halve their App Store income and will still be able to cover it? Unlikely.

    It's not about being a monopoly or exhibiting monopolistic behaviour, it's about money.

    Apple charges 30%. You knew that when you developed for iOS. That's the deal. Don't like it, then don't put your game on iOS.
    qwerty52iconaughtthtmontrosemacsuraharan2itivguydanhwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 35 of 110
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,424member
    App Store is a platform that Apple built, i don't care about your stupid game, i want my Apps to be strictly curated and I want Apple to make some money off it. If a customer disagrees with the policy and gets angry about it, then don't buy and iPhone, it's that simple. 
    That's fine but did you know Apple would be the middleman to everything, and that they would decide what you could download or not? 

    More importantly, was that made clear to you at purchase? 

    You may find that Apple being a middleman isn't a problem here. The root problem is on a deeper level and eventually, I don't think things will work out to Apple's liking. 
  • Reply 36 of 110
    LOL...a "middleman" who designs their own hardware, SoC, operating system, server farms, developers tools, etc. in addition to creating the App Store. If that's the definition of a "middleman" to Sweeney, what does that make Epic? They designed a game engine and some games that run on it. 
    Beatsrazorpitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 110
    tshapi said: I thinks it just about the money. Clearly this was premeditated. 
    Of course it's about the money: the money Epic makes from developers using the Unreal Engine for their games. Epic's own store rewards developers who use their engine by reducing the cut Epic takes from their sales (5% instead of 12%). Epic wants to use the same formula with iOS/iPadOS. They want the Unreal Engine to dominate the platform, and what better way to do that than attempt to eliminate Apple's cut (which gets in the way of their own cut + game engine licensing fees). 
    edited August 2020 razorpitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 110
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,259member
    Beats said:
    Xed said:

    tshapi said:
    Xed said:
    I agree with him. Apple is a middleman to Epic's software. This is why I fully support Epic in creating their own game console so they can sell Forknife directly to customers the way Nintendo does on their Switch.
    I thinks it just about the money. Clearly this was premeditated. He formulated a route and programmed it into the game to by pass Apple and google play stores. Anticipated a lawsuit knowing what he was doing violated there ToS and then had a parody video in place, knowing the likely hood of them yanking fort nite over his TOS violation  was close to 100%.

    He also has been outspoken for over 3 years about this. Why did he wait til now to pull this? Why not do it in 2017? Or 2018? Or 2019?  
    There was already a pushback with the App Store so they decided to pile on. It was a solid strategic move for someone who lacks ethics (just like trying to define the post office, causing strategic delays, and removing mail boxes from cities so a sitting president can steal another election).


    Notice it's only the multi-billionaire dollar companies complaining?

    Also notice the "coincidence" of Microsoft doing similar crap KNOWING the rules.
    MS didn't do anything wrong.  They followed and respected Apple rules while running xCloud on TestFlight, and took the app down without issues.  Maybe they thought of the possibility of Apple relaxing or changing some rules after seeing the positive reviews and experience of xCloud.  Since it didn't happened, in the announcement they posted the reasons on why xCloud wasn't going to be available in iOS and iPadOS, and it was because Apple.  

    This is very different compared to what Epic is doing.  Personally I prefer what MS did, tell customers the reason cloud gaming is not available in Apple mobile devices (in this case, because Apple restricting rules for cloud gaming) and let the market decide.  At the end, Apple customers are missing great gaming experiences because of their rules.  This is an example on how the Apple walled garden is not always for the benefit of the users / customers.  
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 39 of 110
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,007member
    It's not about freedoms. It's about limiting the freedoms of others to his benefit. People often describe trying to use the government to limit the freedoms of others as fighting for freedoms, so he's not alone in that kind of disingenuousness.

    Apple should be free to produce iOS devices that work the way it wants them too, to include such that they can't load additional software or can only do so through the App Store. People should be free to either buy or not buy those devices based on how they work. They should also be free to modify the devices they buy to work how they want them to work, if they are able to of course. (Apple shouldn't be required to help them modify those devices.)

    Apple should be free to let developers use its IP and distribute apps through its App Store, or to not allow them to do so or to set terms under which they are allowed to do so. Developers should be free, if they agree with those terms, to develop iOS apps and distribute them through the App Store. They should also be free to set terms under which they would do so and only do so if Apple agrees to those terms.

    That's what freedom looks like. Apple doesn't have a monopoly when it comes to various iOS devices. It doesn't have monopoly power which it can use to effectively force people to buy its iOS devices regardless of how those devices work. The free market is quite capable of working these issues out. If it's really improper for Apple to only allow software to be loaded on iOS devices through its own App Store, then it will eventually have to change that policy - people will stop buying its iOS devices in the quantities they do. But as it is, it seems that many people are okay with how iOS devices work and prefer them to the market alternatives.

    The arrogance and unwarranted sense of entitlement that's evinced by some fo these developers' complaints is offensive. It isn't surprising, but it's wrong. Apple is letting you use its IP and have access to iOS devices which it doesn't have to let you have access to. It has created so many opportunities for developers, and expanded their ability to reach and service their customers - as well as customers they wouldn't otherwise be able to reach. What developers bring to iOS is very important, and they should be able to make money. But what Apple brings is also very important, and Apple should be able to make money off of what it built.

    If you don't like Apple's terms, don't develop for iOS. Or use market forces to try to cause change. But trying to use the power of government in this context is just wrong. You are trying to limit freedom, not expand it. Sometimes we don't like the results of freedom, so we seek to limit it so as to get the results we'd like. And we realize that's wrong on some level so we pretend that what we're trying to do is expand freedom.
    Gabybushman4danhwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 40 of 110
    I think that by “basic freedoms” he means “Wild West free riding like Android”. We already have that; this guy really needs to think different.
    edited August 2020 Beatsn2itivguywatto_cobra
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