Apple enlists Gibson Dunn to fight Epic Games suit, law firm previously retained in Samsun...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 2020
Apple is once again turning to the lawyers at Gibson Dunn in its bid to fend off a private antitrust suit leveled by Epic Games, with initial proceedings set to begin next Monday.

Fortnite


According to a court docket electronically filed with the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, Apple is being represented by Daniel G. Swanson and Richard J. Doren. Swanson is a senior figure in Gibson Dunn & Crutcher's Antitrust and Competition Practice Group, while Doren is a member of firm's executive committee.

As noted by FOSS Patents, which reported on the case development on Tuesday, Gibson Dunn often represents Apple and interested parties in court, including high-profile cases like the second Apple v. Samsung action and the Apple v. Qualcomm patent licensing battle. The latter case saw Gibson Dunn attorneys counsel Apple's contract manufacturers, who were roped into the fight when they refused to pay royalties on Qualcomm's intellectual property.

Interestingly, the same firm that represented Qualcomm in the now-settled dispute, Cravath, Swaine & Moore, now squares off against Apple as counsel to Epic Games, the report notes.

Epic last week baited Apple into removing popular battle royale game Fortnite from the App Store by issuing an update that incorporated a direct payment option. Bypassing in-app transaction mechanisms is a clear violation of both Apple and Google's online stores, and in response the tech giants pulled the title from circulation. Epic had a pair of lawsuits -- and in the case of Apple, a corresponding PR campaign -- ready to go.

Apple on Monday doubled down on its position by promising to terminate Epic's developer account by Aug. 28 if the firm failed to fall in line with App Store guidelines. The move would impact Epic's access to SDKs, meaning the company's Unreal Engine would also be rendered unusable for hundreds of third-party iOS and Mac apps that rely on the software to function. Epic in response requested a temporary restraining order to stop Apple from following through with its threat.

The case is scheduled to be heard via teleconference on Monday. FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller notes Epic might be asked to explain why one aspect of the TRO against Apple, specifically App Store availability, is not also being pursued in its case against Google.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37
    Apple is one of the most sued entities in the world, so I would think people could be very confident that they have access to excellent representation in court. 
    Beatsaderutterflyingdpwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 37
    bsnjon said:
    Apple is one of the most sued entities in the world, so I would think people could be very confident that they have access to excellent representation in court. 
    If they can’t win this one they aren’t hiring the right people. This is an open and shut case!
    Scot1Beatscat52mwhiteaderutterflyingdpjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 37
    I’m curious to see what Epic will say if they lose this case. I imagine it won’t be anything along the lines of, “Ohhhh, yeah, we made a mistake and have seen how we went wrong. Whoopsie!”
    lollivermwhitejony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 37
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 
    SpamSandwichlollivermwhiteaderutterwilliamlondonGilliam_Batesflyingdpkurai_kagejony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 37
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

    And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.
    lolliveraderutterwilliamlondonGilliam_Bateskurai_kagejony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 37
    Yeah I’m sure if Apple got serious about gaming they would have done a lot more. They are prob doing fine without gaming as a focus, it just does not seem to be a part of the company’s DNA. They prioritise other endeavours such as Health I guess...
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 37
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Yeah I’m sure if Apple got serious about gaming they would have done a lot more. They are prob doing fine without gaming as a focus, it just does not seem to be a part of the company’s DNA. They prioritise other endeavours such as Health I guess...

    Now it's biting them in the ass though. Like when Google stole iPhone technology and used Google Maps as leverage.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 37
    davendaven Posts: 696member
    Beats said:
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

    And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.
    They could call it Apple Seed as it would be at the core of the games.
    aderutterBeatsjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 37
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,408member
    Beats said:
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

    And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.
    Some of us don't want to see Unreal Engine go away. What you guys are missing is that part of the reason we have so many games on macOS/iOS is because Unreal Engine and Unity will *also* compile for those platforms on top of Windows/Linux/XBox/Playstation/Android. Not to mention the amount of realtime film production now being done using Unreal and other XR, animation, previz, etc applications outside of gaming altogether. 
    elijahgGG1Gilliam_BatesBeatsrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 37
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    fastasleep said:
    Beats said:
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

    And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.
    Some of us don't want to see Unreal Engine go away. What you guys are missing is that part of the reason we have so many games on macOS/iOS is because Unreal Engine and Unity will *also* compile for those platforms on top of Windows/Linux/XBox/Playstation/Android. Not to mention the amount of realtime film production now being done using Unreal and other XR, animation, previz, etc applications outside of gaming altogether. 
    Epic's fairly hypocritical stance regarding the 30% doesn't help their cause at all, though their slice of the sale is only 12%. Unfortunately many of the rabid Apple fanatics here can't see the wood for the trees and blindly defend everything Apple does like it's some kind of religious deity, rather than a for-profit company that couldn't give two shits about some fanatic obsessively defending them. And apparently Apple can't see the wood for the trees either (not really news there though, they're screwing their Mac users by continuing to snub Nvidia, but that's a different story). 

    Anyway, losing the Mac userbase is very little concern for Epic, it's probably less than 1% of their revenue. However, it means a *lot* of the Mac games will vanish and will have a lot more effect on Mac users than Epic. A lot of Apple Arcade games are built with the Unreal engine too. In fact almost all the best and most impressive games on AA (i.e. not rehashed versions of the crappy mobile style games that make up 80% of the App Store just with the IAPs removed) are built with UE - and Epic was quick to support Metal with UE. Losing the UE from the Mac and iOS would be a massive blow to Mac and iOS gaming, and ultimately could cause a shift to Android for people who game heavily on iOS.

    More and more these days Apple is acting like a bully and it doesn't sit at all well with me. Or the regulators, apparently. It wouldn't be so bad if they actually did something with the money they're raking in rather using it as a platform to spout pious rhetoric from.
    edited August 2020 williamlondon
  • Reply 11 of 37
    castcorecastcore Posts: 141member
    Disgusting Epic and Tim Sweeney. Why are they able to charge what they want in their own store and Apple cannot? Maybe close your own store or make everything free first? F Epic, greedy bastards
    lolliveraderutterwilliamlondonGilliam_BatesflyingdpBeatswatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 12 of 37
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,408member
    elijahg said:

    Anyway, losing the Mac userbase is very little concern for Epic, it's probably less than 1% of their revenue.
    And that number is based on...what exactly? I'd suspect it's far, far higher than 1%. Again, not everyone is making games with UE.
    aderutterwilliamlondonBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 37
    bsnjon said:
    Apple is one of the most sued entities in the world, so I would think people could be very confident that they have access to excellent representation in court. 
    A true leader wouldn’t delegate this level dispute towards litigation clercks of whatever kind or agency.
    Apple’s global image as an immersive, unavoidable megalomane incumbent is at stake.
    The 1984 reference hit an open nerve  - Epic simply isn’t the main target anymore
    williamlondonGilliam_Bates
  • Reply 14 of 37
    Just ban all in-app purchases for games and the like, no in-game curency, no loot-boxes, no problem.
    tobianwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 37
    elijahg said: However, it means a *lot* of the Mac games will vanish and will have a lot more effect on Mac users than Epic. A lot of Apple Arcade games are built with the Unreal engine too. In fact almost all the best and most impressive games on AA (i.e. not rehashed versions of the crappy mobile style games that make up 80% of the App Store just with the IAPs removed) are built with UE - and Epic was quick to support Metal with UE. 
    Games that have already been produced using the Unreal Engine wouldn't be effected. 
    aderutterBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 37
    The FOSS Patents article points out that Epic's attempts at an injunction on Apple enforcing the termination clauses of the contract are unlikely to succeed. They note that U.S. courts would likely advise Epic to follow the rules of the store for now to resolve this issue (which is what Apple asked them to do) while the court case proceeds. 
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 17 of 37
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,275member
    bsnjon said:
    Apple is one of the most sued entities in the world, so I would think people could be very confident that they have access to excellent representation in court. 
    A true leader wouldn’t delegate this level dispute towards litigation clercks of whatever kind or agency.
    Apple’s global image as an immersive, unavoidable megalomane incumbent is at stake.
    The 1984 reference hit an open nerve  - Epic simply isn’t the main target anymore
    That is ridiculous. Who would they use to litigate a case this visible, their Legal Summer interns?!

    watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 18 of 37
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,275member
    bsnjon said:
    Apple is one of the most sued entities in the world, so I would think people could be very confident that they have access to excellent representation in court. 
    If they can’t win this one they aren’t hiring the right people. This is an open and shut case!

    I hope we all live long enough to see the very end of this case. Hearings, trial, appeal, appeal of appeal.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 37
    pujones1pujones1 Posts: 222member
    daven said:
    Beats said:
    No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

    And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.
    They could call it Apple Seed as it would be at the core of the games.
    Nice one. Apple Seed. Love it. First version could be called Deunan.
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 37
    Wouldn't it be ironic if this weakened Epic to the point of having to sell………and wouldn't it be beyond ironic if Apple ended up owning the Unreal Engine which is the so critical not just to Epic's games, but other games in the App Store and even Apple's subscription games platform. 
    Beatswatto_cobraDetnator
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